IRC log of site-design on 2013-05-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:32:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #site-design
19:32:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/21-site-design-irc
19:33:00 [Ian]
zakim, who's here?
19:33:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ian, +1.347.908.aaaa, Troy
19:33:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, bevcorwin, Ian, dorian, Zakim
19:33:06 [Ian]
zakim, aaaa is Bev
19:33:06 [Zakim]
+Bev; got it
19:33:27 [Ian]
agenda+ Site statistics
19:33:30 [Zakim]
+Dorian_Taylor
19:33:35 [Ian]
agenda+ Creating a vision for the new site
19:34:08 [Troy]
Troy has joined #site-design
19:34:17 [Ian]
zakim, who's here?
19:34:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ian, Bev, Troy, Dorian_Taylor
19:34:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Troy, RRSAgent, bevcorwin, Ian, dorian, Zakim
19:34:29 [Ian]
[14:32] <Zakim> On the phone I see Ian, +1.347.908.aaaa, Troy
19:35:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.917.826.aabb
19:35:15 [Ian]
zakim, aabb is Noreen
19:35:15 [Zakim]
+Noreen; got it
19:35:18 [Ian]
zakim, who's here?
19:35:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ian, Bev, Troy, Dorian_Taylor, Noreen
19:35:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Troy, RRSAgent, bevcorwin, Ian, dorian, Zakim
19:35:33 [Ian]
Regrets: Robin, Kelly
19:35:40 [Ian]
Meeting: Site Redesign Task Force
19:36:00 [Ian]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-site-design/2013May/0023.html
19:36:09 [Ian]
agenda?
19:36:15 [Ian]
zakim, close item 5
19:36:15 [Zakim]
agendum 5, next meeting, closed
19:36:16 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:36:16 [Zakim]
6. Site statistics [from Ian]
19:36:20 [Ian]
zakim, take up item 6
19:36:20 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Site statistics" taken up [from Ian]
19:36:26 [Ian]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-site-design/2013May/0022.html
19:37:40 [Zakim]
+Laura_Creekmore
19:38:01 [lcreekmo]
lcreekmo has joined #site-design
19:39:29 [Ian]
Q. Do we know the referrers?
19:41:25 [Ian]
…e.g., what are the top 10 referrers
19:42:00 [Ian]
====
19:42:01 [Ian]
Who links the most to our site (Total links: 74,574,619)
19:42:01 [Ian]
- easy-coding.de
19:42:01 [Ian]
- worldcat.org
19:42:01 [Ian]
- woorank.com
19:42:01 [Ian]
- firmenanzeiger.net
19:42:05 [Ian]
- dbpedia.org
19:42:07 [Ian]
- egovmon.no
19:42:09 [Ian]
- webmastercoffee.com
19:42:11 [Ian]
- onki.fi
19:42:13 [Ian]
-agnic.org
19:42:15 [Ian]
- tumblr.com
19:42:17 [Ian]
- bioontology.org
19:42:19 [Ian]
- semanticweb.org
19:43:10 [Ian]
IJ: I will put Dorian in touch with Gerald re: stats
19:44:33 [Ian]
Dorian: DTDs will have referrers on them.
19:44:48 [Ian]
…traffic to DTDs problem
19:45:55 [Ian]
…I bet people curl w3.org to test their http library
19:47:25 [Ian]
Q. How do we redirect people to newer things?
19:47:30 [Ian]
(e.g., Check out HTML5!)
19:48:00 [lcreekmo]
q
19:48:27 [bevcorwin]
I think that a good content strategy that incorporates a hybrid human (user) and machine (user) with a focus on web accessibility will be a good way to direct and refer users
19:49:07 [Ian]
Laura: I think this is the right line of thinking…what you would want to do from a content perspective is to show a continum.
19:49:09 [Ian]
continuum
19:49:14 [bevcorwin]
HTML5! Yes!
19:49:18 [nwhysel]
nwhysel has joined #site-design
19:49:43 [bevcorwin]
Hi Noreen!
19:51:40 [Ian]
Top pages where search done
19:51:40 [Ian]
2194 http://www.w3.org/
19:51:40 [Ian]
165 http://www.w3.org/standards/
19:51:57 [Ian]
I bet that means they are looking for standards since they didn't see what they wanted
19:52:48 [Ian]
Top links from home page
19:52:48 [Ian]
8689 http://www.w3.org/
19:52:48 [Ian]
2837 http://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/
19:52:48 [Ian]
1704 http://www.w3.org/standards/
19:52:48 [Ian]
1595 http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/
19:52:48 [Ian]
1223 http://www.w3.org/2009/03/image-display-none/results
19:52:55 [Ian]
I don't know what the last one is!
19:52:56 [bevcorwin]
Image readers?
19:54:10 [Ian]
[We discuss that the TR page is not helping people find the commonly needed pieces of informatino]
19:54:55 [Ian]
IJ: Yes, we could pick top 10 specs (html5, html4, css2, wcag 2, ...)
19:55:12 [bevcorwin]
Agreed
19:55:21 [Ian]
Noreen: You need to push forward the ones you want them to see as well
19:56:58 [Ian]
HTML5 differences from HTML4
19:56:58 [Ian]
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/
19:56:58 [Ian]
Dorian: Which specs are proper supersets?
19:58:04 [Ian]
http://www.w3.org/standards/techs/css#w3c_all
19:58:29 [Ian]
http://www.w3.org/standards/techs/html#w3c_all
19:58:54 [dorian]
also: http://caniuse.com/
20:02:01 [bevcorwin]
Crowdsourcing w/ MMI is a good match
20:02:07 [Ian]
IJ: We could use a stack overflow approach - crowd-sourcing
20:02:36 [Zakim]
-Troy
20:02:56 [bevcorwin]
time dimension in web3D?
20:02:57 [dorian]
i personally use xhtml1(.1) + rdfa still
20:03:09 [dorian]
because html5 is mostly zzz ;)
20:03:19 [Ian]
IJ: So what do you see going on here via the data?
20:03:20 [Zakim]
+Troy
20:05:16 [bevcorwin]
Shari is available to attend next meeting to help with search strategy
20:05:27 [Ian]
Laura: I don't have a firm enough handle of who is coming to the site.
20:05:37 [Ian]
….do we have a large number of casual users who are coming to the site
20:05:56 [bevcorwin]
user experience?
20:05:58 [Ian]
…maybe people are using HTML4 while HTML5 is not a standard.
20:06:10 [Ian]
….it would be good to know what traffic comes from what expertise
20:07:12 [Ian]
Dorian: Can we scrub out bots?
20:08:34 [Ian]
…do we have IP info to track?
20:08:45 [bevcorwin]
include bots, but in a managed way
20:08:50 [dorian]
https://panopticlick.eff.org/
20:09:25 [gerald]
gerald has joined #site-design
20:10:07 [bevcorwin]
Hi Gerald
20:10:10 [Ian]
zakim, call gerald-cell
20:10:10 [Zakim]
ok, Ian; the call is being made
20:10:12 [Zakim]
+Gerald
20:10:20 [bevcorwin]
Hi Troy
20:11:07 [Ian]
question for gerald: Do we have IP data we can use to track?
20:11:19 [Ian]
Ger: We have that data, but don't have software to proceed the logs
20:11:31 [bevcorwin]
Also, how detailed is IP data?
20:11:35 [Ian]
Dorian: what format is the log?
20:11:45 [Ian]
Gerald: Apache format with a few extra fields we added
20:12:02 [Ian]
Dorian: There are presets like "common" and "combined" (has referred data)
20:12:10 [Ian]
Gerald: I think it's "combined" + extra fields
20:12:45 [Ian]
Gerald: How big are the logs per day?
20:12:55 [Ian]
Dorian: 20-30million lines
20:12:56 [Ian]
whoops
20:13:07 [Ian]
(Dorian asked; Gerald answered)
20:13:22 [Ian]
Dorian: I wrote a perl script to do something .
20:13:40 [gerald]
our apache config for logs:
20:13:41 [gerald]
LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-agent}i\" \"%{Cont
20:13:42 [gerald]
ent-Type}o\" %v:%p \"%{DNT}i\"" w3_log
20:13:59 [dorian]
great thanks
20:14:19 [Zakim]
-Dorian_Taylor
20:14:26 [Ian]
IJ to GO: Notice anything in the logs?
20:14:35 [Ian]
Gerald: Our logs have tons of bogus traffic from bots
20:14:45 [dorian]
oops, tapped out
20:14:58 [Ian]
…I tried to omit the noise from the results, but I think the HTML4 pages are still due to bad bots
20:15:26 [Ian]
IJ: Why do you think those are bad bots hitting HTML4?
20:15:47 [dorian]
actually i might have to scoot
20:16:01 [gerald]
a few days ago I revived our (team-internal) ,stats tool
20:16:12 [dorian]
will review when i return
20:16:15 [dorian]
thanks everybody
20:16:37 [bevcorwin]
thank you Dorian!
20:16:52 [gerald]
https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html,stats
20:16:53 [gerald]
[[[
20:16:54 [gerald]
HitsUser-Agent string
20:16:55 [gerald]
1957Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)
20:16:56 [gerald]
23Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0)
20:16:57 [gerald]
15-
20:16:58 [gerald]
8JSpider (http://j-spider.sourceforge.net)
20:16:59 [gerald]
]]]
20:17:15 [Ian]
http://www.webmasterworld.com/search_engine_spiders/4058096.htm
20:17:16 [gerald]
the amount of traffic from that first UA is very unusual, probably one misbehaving bot
20:18:20 [Zakim]
-Gerald
20:18:22 [Ian]
Thanks Ger!
20:18:58 [gerald]
gerald has left #site-design
20:19:46 [Ian]
IJ: +1 to improving TR page for usability. How do you organize large number of things/
20:19:53 [Ian]
q?
20:20:03 [Ian]
zakim, close this item
20:20:03 [Zakim]
agendum 6 closed
20:20:04 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
20:20:04 [Zakim]
7. Creating a vision for the new site [from Ian]
20:20:11 [Ian]
zakim, take up item 7
20:20:11 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Creating a vision for the new site" taken up [from Ian]
20:20:48 [Ian]
When should we start looking at survey data?
20:20:58 [Ian]
Troy: ASAP
20:21:18 [bevcorwin]
I can help review survey
20:24:13 [nwhysel]
are there known or expected users that should be targeted further before the survey closes?
20:24:55 [Ian]
IJ: I want site to make people feel like they can contribute; welcoming them
20:24:56 [Ian]
Troy: It becomes a great branding asset
20:25:35 [lcreekmo]
Big vision thought: The site [from home page on down] clearly shares the mission of the org, directs visitors to standards in a simple way, and makes it easy to get involved.
20:25:41 [Ian]
Troy: Tizen assoc site requires discipline to keep it simple
20:26:00 [Ian]
Get involved
20:26:04 [Ian]
Use web technology
20:26:11 [Ian]
How the web is changing the world
20:27:47 [bevcorwin]
Is the analogy of the web is the world's nervous system? If so, what part of the nervous system is the W3C?
20:33:05 [Zakim]
-Troy
20:33:29 [Troy]
Sorry, had to drop for another meeting.
20:33:35 [Ian]
sure
20:34:23 [Ian]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:34:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/21-site-design-minutes.html Ian
20:36:08 [Kelly]
Kelly has joined #site-design
20:36:38 [Zakim]
-Laura_Creekmore
20:36:39 [Zakim]
-Bev
20:36:40 [Zakim]
-Noreen
20:36:43 [bevcorwin]
Thank you!
20:36:44 [Ian]
rrsagent, set logs public
20:36:49 [Zakim]
-Ian
20:36:50 [Zakim]
Team_Comm(SITE)3:30PM has ended
20:36:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ian, +1.347.908.aaaa, Troy, Bev, Dorian_Taylor, +1.917.826.aabb, Noreen, Laura_Creekmore, Gerald