20:28:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:28:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/25-svg-irc
20:28:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:28:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
20:28:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:28:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM scheduled to start in 32 minutes
20:28:13 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:28:13 <trackbot> Date: 25 April 2013
20:28:23 <heycam> Zakim, room for 10?
20:28:25 <Zakim> ok, heycam; conference Team_(svg)20:28Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 2128Z
20:28:36 <Zakim> Team_(svg)20:28Z has now started
20:28:44 <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaaa
20:28:57 <krit> Zakim, aaaa is me
20:28:57 <Zakim> +krit; got it
20:29:03 <heycam> heycam has changed the topic to: Use code 26631 today | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0064.html
20:29:22 <krit> Fore everyone: Conf room is 26631
20:29:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:30:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
20:30:10 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:30:11 <Zakim> sorry, ed, I do not recognize a party named '[IP'
20:30:13 <birtles> Zakim, IPcaller.a is me
20:30:13 <Zakim> +birtles; got it
20:30:19 <ed> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:30:19 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:30:42 <Zakim> +??P2
20:30:44 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013AprJun/0082.html
20:30:44 <heycam> Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:30:44 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:31:07 <Cyril> pass code is invalid ?
20:31:17 <Zakim> +??P7
20:31:20 <krit> Cyril: 26631
20:31:48 <Cyril> zakim, P7 is me
20:31:48 <Zakim> sorry, Cyril, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
20:31:52 <Cyril> zakim, ??P7 is me
20:31:52 <Zakim> +Cyril; got it
20:32:09 <Zakim> + +33.9.53.77.aabb
20:32:18 <Cyril> scribe: Cyril
20:32:23 <Cyril> scribeNick: Cyril
20:32:30 <Tav> zakim, aabb is me
20:32:30 <Zakim> +Tav; got it
20:32:31 <Cyril> Topic: CSS  3 UI Last Call review
20:32:54 <Cyril> heycam: Chris emailed us recently to point out the Last Call
20:33:07 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-ui/
20:33:12 <Cyril> ... the summary says there are new values for the cursor property, the nav property
20:33:29 <Cyril> ... some removed because of lack of implementation
20:33:43 <Cyril> ed: which were attributes in Tiny 1.2
20:33:51 <heycam> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-ui/
20:34:03 <Cyril> heycam: perhaps they were added to the CSS as properties because of the SVG attributes
20:34:40 <Cyril> ... it's mentionned in the feature at risk that nav-*
20:35:00 <Cyril> ... are at risk
20:35:04 <shepazutu> shepazutu has joined #svg
20:35:12 <Cyril> ... do you think this spec needs close review by us ?
20:35:17 <Cyril> ... if so, by who ?
20:35:35 <Cyril> Cyril: is there anything related to zooming and panning?
20:35:40 <Cyril> heycam: not that I'm aware
20:36:06 <Cyril> ... 4.1 applies to form, views, control
20:36:33 <Cyril> ... 4.2 are for form things
20:36:42 <Cyril> ... it doesn't look like they apply to SVG
20:37:04 <Cyril> ... Doug wanted them to apply to SVG content to have focus highlight for instance
20:37:24 <Cyril> ... there is also the text-overflow property that we want to have
20:37:41 <Cyril> krit: I would like to review it
20:38:00 <Cyril> ACTION: Dirk to review CSS 3 UI spec
20:38:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3490 - Review CSS 3 UI spec [on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-05-02].
20:38:18 <Cyril> ed: is this the right version of the spec to review?
20:38:24 <Cyril> ... it seems quite old, from january
20:38:37 <Cyril> heycam: I'm looking at the dev.w3 one
20:39:01 <Cyril> ... I assume that's the one we should be reviewing
20:39:36 <Cyril> krit: if someone else wants to review, that would be better
20:39:55 <krit> s/wants to review/wants to review as well/
20:41:14 <Cyril> Topic: hasFeature
20:41:22 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Apr/0038.html
20:41:36 <Cyril> heycam: what are our current plans in SVG for feature strings
20:41:58 <Cyril> ... Anne wants to unconditionally return true
20:42:37 <Cyril> ... my view is that if you're using script to call hasFeature, you should be calling that feature directly
20:43:07 <Cyril> krit: there is the method isSupported for SVG elements
20:43:13 <Cyril> ed: never heard of that one
20:43:21 <Cyril> heycam: it seems to exist in DOM2 Core
20:43:23 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Core/core.html#ID-1950641247
20:43:32 <birtles> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Core/core.html#Level-2-Core-Node-supports
20:44:15 <Cyril> heycam: there is a slight difference with hasFeature (global) and isSupported
20:44:26 <Cyril> ... there is also a method to convert an element into another element
20:45:28 <Cyril> krit: there is also the check of each version we have: 1.0, 1.1, 1.2
20:45:42 <Cyril> ... you can also search for animations ...
20:45:51 <Cyril> ... feature and versions
20:46:01 <Cyril> ... I have no idea how much it is used
20:46:06 <Zakim> -heycam
20:46:09 <Cyril> ... but it returns the right values
20:46:33 <Cyril> ... at least in WebKit
20:46:51 <Zakim> +??P2
20:46:54 <heycam> Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:46:54 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:47:19 <Cyril> heycam: in Anne's email
20:47:31 <Cyril> ... there was a survey from Opera to check if the hasfeature was used
20:47:38 <Cyril> ... and got very few results
20:47:46 <Cyril> krit: how did he check that?
20:47:56 <Cyril> heycam: I don't know the methodology
20:48:10 <Cyril> krit: I would trust if it was with Opera mobile
20:48:26 <Cyril> ... but just Google is not sufficient
20:48:35 <heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Apr/0038.html
20:48:37 <Cyril> heycam: I think he used a large collection of documents
20:48:52 <Cyril> ... from http://webdevdata.org/
20:49:21 <Cyril> ... right, how many of the top 10000 web sites use SVG scripting
20:50:05 <Cyril> krit: I would be fine if no user was using it
20:50:28 <Cyril> ... we could ask Google
20:50:42 <Cyril> ... if they could check how much that feature is used
20:50:43 <heycam> krit is suggesting to instrument Blink to record how often it encounters has Feature
20:53:10 <Cyril> krit: I can ask Tab to instrument Blink to do that and after 3 months, we can rediscuss
20:53:38 <Cyril> ACTION: Dirk to ask on the Blink mailing list to record usages of that feature
20:53:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3491 - Ask on the Blink mailing list to record usages of that feature [on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-05-02].
20:53:56 <krit> s/Tab//
20:55:08 <Cyril> Topic: RDFa and SVG
20:55:32 <Cyril> Cyril: the question was raised in some ePub discussion about whether SVG could use RDFa
20:56:00 <Cyril> heycam: in tiny 1.2, some attributes were used but they've not been ported to SVG 2
20:56:06 <Cyril> ... what's the status in HTML
20:56:21 <Cyril> Cyril: not sure, but I think RDFa is supported in HTML
20:56:38 <Cyril> heycam: if RDFa is an extension spec for HTML, they could do the same for SVG
20:56:53 <thomassmailus> thomassmailus has joined #svg
20:56:56 <Cyril> ... not sure that would require a spec for that
20:57:51 <Cyril> Cyril: there is also the difference between RDF and RDFa
20:58:03 <Cyril> ed: yes RDF is XML so you can use it with namespace
20:58:09 <Cyril> ... RDFa is a lot of attributes
20:58:19 <Cyril> ... I don't think they conflict with SVG attributes but ...
20:58:53 <Cyril> ed: SVG 1.1 and SVG 2.0 does not say anything about those attributes, but Tiny 1.2 does
20:59:05 <Cyril> s/does not/do not/
20:59:30 <Cyril> Tav: what's the difference between RDF and RDF a
21:00:02 <Cyril> heycam: RDF is heavily namespace based, and RDFa uses attributes in no namespace for better HTML integration
21:00:12 <Cyril> ed: that's my understanding too
21:00:22 <Cyril> Cyril: is it what the 'a' is for ? attributes ?
21:00:24 <Cyril> heycam: no idea
21:00:43 <Cyril> krit: yes
21:01:15 <Cyril> Tav: Inkscape includes RDF
21:01:23 <Cyril> heycam: for licenses?
21:01:26 <Cyril> Tav: yes
21:01:47 <Cyril> heycam: if we did want to make it explicit that we can use RDFa in SVG 2
21:01:54 <Cyril> ... I'm not sure if it should be in the SVG spec
21:02:00 <Cyril> ... or in an extension spec to SVG
21:02:14 <Zakim> -heycam
21:02:18 <Cyril> ... they are content attributes, you can put them on any element in the markup
21:02:25 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-in-html/
21:02:36 <Zakim> +??P2
21:02:39 <heycam> Zakim, ??P2 is me
21:02:39 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
21:02:49 <thomassmailus> Did we change the phone #?
21:02:52 <shepazu> (I don't think RDFa should be in SVG, or even in an SVG extension spec… it should be defined somehow so it "just works")
21:03:13 <Cyril> heycam: what Doug is saying is what I was thinking too
21:03:34 <Cyril> ... it should just be possible, we don't want to select RDFa or microdata
21:04:26 <Cyril> ed: I agree, it should be possible to use it
21:04:40 <thomassmailus> Um, how do I "see topic"
21:05:26 <Zakim> + +1.425.373.aacc
21:05:34 <Cyril> heycam: we should look at how we could have RDFa in SVG in the same way as it is done for HTML
21:07:03 <Cyril> krit: I would like to continue discussing the marker discussion
21:07:47 <ed> topic: marker-segment and marker-patterns
21:08:04 <krit> marker-segment: 50% url(...)
21:08:33 <Cyril> heycam: didn't we decide tjhat % on marker pattern refer to the length of the segment
21:08:45 <Cyril> ... in my original proposal, it would take a single value
21:08:52 <Cyril> ... just like marker mid
21:08:59 <Cyril> ... but I don't remember for patterns
21:09:12 <Cyril> ... it would make sense to refer to the whole
21:09:26 <Cyril> krit: I would like to discuss marker-segment
21:09:41 <Cyril> ... in my example, would it be always at the middle ?
21:09:57 <Cyril> ... if you don't specify 50% it would be 0
21:10:04 <Cyril> ... start of the segment
21:10:26 <Cyril> heycam: I don't know if that's the right level of complexity
21:10:43 <Cyril> ... if you wnat to put 1 marker on a segment, you would want it at the middle
21:11:03 <Cyril> ... without the ability to put more than 1 marker on a segment, specifying the position is not really useful
21:11:15 <Cyril> ... if you ahve 2 markers, you could have 40% and 60%
21:11:35 <Cyril> krit: I think we already agreed to have more than 1 marker
21:11:51 <Cyril> heycam: why are you asking that? to merge the properties ?
21:11:57 <Cyril> krit: I dont' know yet
21:12:09 <Cyril> ... we might want to have the same syntax
21:12:19 <Cyril> heycam: make the 2 more similar
21:12:30 <Cyril> krit: maybe merge, I don't know
21:13:00 <Cyril> heycam: I'm not completely against the idea, but I'd like to see the complete set to see if we need to increase hte complexity or not
21:13:09 <Cyril> ... it's a bit hard to see in isolation
21:13:20 <Cyril> krit: pattern is probably more useful
21:13:33 <Cyril> heycam: but some simple examples will be common cases
21:13:40 <Cyril> ... and I'd like that to work
21:14:06 <Cyril> heycam: if you want to write up a proposal and send it to the list, please do
21:14:11 <Cyril> krit: yes, I can do that
21:14:32 <Cyril> heycam: we did not settle on that last time so it'd be good to hear some thoughts
21:15:33 <Zakim> -Cyril
21:16:13 <Zakim> +??P7
21:16:23 <heycam> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/SVGTokyo2013/
21:16:24 <Cyril> zakim, ??P7 is me
21:16:24 <Zakim> +Cyril; got it
21:17:24 <Cyril> Topic: meeting with ePub people at the F2F
21:17:44 <Cyril> heycam: I had suggested that some of the ePub people come and visit us on the monday
21:17:50 <Cyril> ... it was going to be the plan
21:18:03 <Zakim> -heycam
21:18:04 <Cyril> ... but someone said that they could have some space on tuesday
21:18:43 <Cyril> ... so it wasn't clear
21:19:37 <Zakim> +??P0
21:20:19 <Cyril> ... we wouldn't meet for the all day, something like tuesday PM2
21:20:33 <Cyril> ... if people don't have strong opinion, we'll organize what's best for them
21:20:46 <Cyril> ... I don't think it's going to be far awat
21:20:52 <Cyril> s/awat/away/
21:21:11 <Cyril> Cyril: do we have any what's going to be discussed ?
21:21:21 <Cyril> heycam: how much time would it take to go there?
21:21:31 <Cyril> birtles: it's not so far, maybe 1/2 hour
21:21:51 <Cyril> ... but I'm a bit concerned that it's going to be only 1 and 1/2 day for SVG
21:22:02 <Cyril> ... we could ask them to come or go there only in the evenging
21:22:22 <Cyril> heycam: I wouldn't like to spend more than 1/4 of a day
21:23:01 <Cyril> ... I'll reply to them and see if it's not feasible for them to come on monday
21:23:22 <Cyril> ??: how many are they?
21:23:40 <Cyril> heycam: on monday probably only a few
21:24:09 <birtles> s/??: /birtles: /
21:24:11 <Cyril> ... I'll see how late their meetings go
21:25:03 <Cyril> Topic: Meeting
21:25:20 <Cyril> birtles: because the meeting is so early, can we send a mail at least 12 hours before
21:25:35 <Cyril> ed: was the agenda sent at the right time
21:25:38 <Cyril> birtles: yes
21:25:52 <Cyril> heycam: normally I try to send it 20 hours before
21:26:25 <Cyril> ... if we collect our agenda items on the wiki, it should be feasible
21:27:06 <Cyril> rrsagent, make minutes
21:27:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/25-svg-minutes.html Cyril
21:27:13 <Zakim> -??P0
21:27:14 <Zakim> - +1.425.373.aacc
21:27:14 <Zakim> -birtles
21:27:16 <Zakim> -ed
21:27:17 <Zakim> -Tav
21:27:17 <Zakim> -krit
21:27:19 <Zakim> -Cyril
21:27:19 <Zakim> Team_(svg)20:28Z has ended
21:27:19 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.415.832.aaaa, krit, birtles, ed, heycam, Cyril, +33.9.53.77.aabb, Tav, +1.425.373.aacc
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