IRC log of aapi on 2013-03-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aapi
16:59:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-irc
17:00:13 [clown]
meeting: WAI PF UAIG Weekly Teleconference
17:00:26 [clown]
chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:00:41 [clown]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Mar/0046.html
17:00:53 [clown]
RRSAgent: make log public
17:01:01 [clown]
RRSAgent: make minutes
17:01:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-minutes.html clown
17:01:30 [clown]
RRSAgent: make log public
17:02:37 [clown]
zakim, what conference is this?
17:02:37 [Zakim]
this will be WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM conference code 2274, clown
17:02:44 [clown]
zakim, this is pf
17:02:44 [Zakim]
clown, I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be pf".
17:02:57 [clown]
trackbot, start meeting
17:02:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
17:03:01 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:03:01 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
17:03:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:03:02 [trackbot]
Date: 21 March 2013
17:03:06 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has now started
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+[Mozilla]
17:03:17 [clown]
RRSAgent: make log public
17:03:21 [davidb]
Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter
17:03:21 [Zakim]
+David_Bolter; got it
17:03:34 [Zakim]
-David_Bolter
17:03:35 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has ended
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Attendees were David_Bolter
17:03:45 [davidb]
\o/
17:03:53 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has now started
17:04:00 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
17:04:35 [Zakim]
+[GVoice]
17:04:46 [clown]
zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:04:46 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:05:04 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:04 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:19 [Zakim]
+[Mozilla]
17:05:20 [davidb]
Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter
17:05:21 [Zakim]
+David_Bolter; got it
17:05:25 [clown]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Mar/0046.html
17:06:13 [clown]
Topic: ACTION-1175
17:06:17 [clown]
ACTION-1175?
17:06:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-1175 -- David Bolter to status of ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT in MSAA/IA2 column for role=heading -- due 2013-03-18 -- OPEN
17:06:17 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1175
17:06:28 [Zakim]
-David_Bolter
17:07:05 [Zakim]
+[Mozilla]
17:07:19 [cyns]
cyns has joined #aapi
17:07:23 [cyns]
hi
17:07:38 [clown]
action-1175?
17:07:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-1175 -- David Bolter to status of ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT in MSAA/IA2 column for role=heading -- due 2013-03-18 -- OPEN
17:07:39 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1175
17:10:19 [clown]
DB: these are compatible: ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT means the role is exposed as a text string.
17:10:47 [clown]
DB: let me retract that. I was thinking of a different enum.
17:11:58 [clown]
DB: can we change it to "heading"?
17:12:14 [clown]
JS: depends on whether IE agrees — we want ineroperability.
17:13:20 [clown]
DB: in some ways it doesn't matter, since ATs should be using the IA2 role.
17:14:13 [clown]
JS: why not drop the MSAA part entirely?
17:14:25 [davidb]
(fine with me)
17:14:25 [clown]
CS: what if an AT isn't looking at IA2 information.
17:17:36 [clown]
ACTION: Cynthia to look into UIA Express and UIA mappings for role=heading to check for heading paragraph style.
17:17:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1185 - Look into UIA Express and UIA mappings for role=heading to check for heading paragraph style. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2013-03-28].
17:18:22 [clown]
JS: so what about FF?
17:18:48 [clown]
DB/CS: we shouldn't remove the MSAA role for graceful degradation.
17:24:17 [davidb]
i updated the action.
17:25:05 [clown]
JS: time frame?
17:25:27 [clown]
DB: I need to discuss with one team member, and then I can give a ETA.
17:25:57 [clown]
topic: action-1183
17:26:01 [clown]
action-1183>
17:26:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-1183 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to check UAIG for mapping a listbox to a menu when in a combobox. Also, fix this in test case 771 to reflect change. -- due 2013-03-25 -- OPEN
17:26:02 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1183
17:26:24 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
17:28:47 [clown]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit/771
17:29:54 [clown]
DB: we have a note in our code that it has role menu on ATK.
17:30:03 [clown]
CS: I think it just a paste error.
17:30:12 [clown]
s/it just/it's just/
17:30:43 [clown]
DB: we probably do it for IA2 — let me look at our tests.
17:31:56 [clown]
DB: I can't find it that way. No test for it.
17:32:44 [clown]
JS: I could make a test file, and test IA2.
17:33:06 [clown]
CS: If you make a test file, and test it for IA2 and AT-SPI, then send us a link.
17:34:30 [clown]
topic: issue-550
17:34:34 [clown]
issue-550?
17:34:34 [trackbot]
ISSUE-550 -- Come up with a date to stop editing UAIG in preparation for the next Last Call Draft -- open
17:34:34 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/550
17:34:59 [clown]
action-851?
17:34:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-851 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to look through APG design patterns re: menus for examples that relate to UAIG 5.8.4 -- due 2013-02-01 -- OPEN
17:34:59 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/851
17:35:28 [clown]
CS: mark it as at-risk, and that allows us to remove it without going to last call.
17:36:09 [clown]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit/771
17:36:19 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_menus
17:37:30 [clown]
CS: the overall question is: are ATs relying on these events?
17:39:08 [clown]
JS: also, the events one sees depends on the DHTML itself.
17:41:04 [clown]
JS: I will bring this up with a neon sign at Mon's PF call.
17:41:17 [clown]
CS: I also want feedback from the IE team.
17:41:50 [clown]
DB: I've got to reach out to some people to find out why we fire these events.
17:42:31 [clown]
CS: can you add an editorial note that we are considering removing these events.
17:42:48 [clown]
JS: I will do that by end of day, and send an email to cynthia and david.
17:43:51 [clown]
topic: action-1152?
17:43:56 [clown]
action-1152?
17:43:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-1152 -- Cynthia Shelly to investigate whether a pure UIA implementation does not have a description field -- due 2013-01-28 -- OPEN
17:43:56 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1152
17:44:26 [clown]
issue-551?
17:44:26 [trackbot]
ISSUE-551 -- When UAIG enters CR, we need to ask Director if we have to have 2 mappings to all platforms, or just demonstrate implementability of mapping via a sample and say all the mappings are therefore defined implementable -- open
17:44:26 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/551
17:44:59 [clown]
CS: I need to discuss with others. I will prioritize that.
17:47:07 [clown]
JS: the problem is: if the desription has display:none, what is the pointer pointing to?
17:47:28 [clown]
CS: to null, perhaps. But, probably in the text field.
17:47:34 [clown]
CS: but I will double check.
17:49:17 [clown]
topic: document freeze
17:49:25 [clown]
CS: can we get this done by next week?
17:50:01 [clown]
JS: depends on how much time I have to do the last minute edits.
17:50:09 [clown]
CS: Let's look at david's.
17:50:19 [clown]
topic: Bugzilla 19772
17:50:28 [clown]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19772#c5
17:56:23 [clown]
DB/CS/JS: Lots of discussion about the bug to decipher it.
17:56:39 [clown]
DB: alex wants the text put back into the UIA express column.
17:56:44 [clown]
CS: why does it matter?
17:57:16 [clown]
DB: interoperability: we have landed some UIA express stuff.
17:57:26 [clown]
DB: I need to reach out to alex and get more information.
17:57:54 [clown]
DB: and the person who did the work.
17:59:13 [clown]
topic: action-1157?
17:59:19 [clown]
action-1157?
17:59:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-1157 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to expose proper mapping of aria-atomic for MSAA/IAccessible2 -- due 2013-02-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:59:19 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1157
18:01:40 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-atomic
18:06:11 [clown]
DB: it is information to the AT.
18:06:46 [clown]
DB: if we collapse and not expose anything when false, then we are taking away a little information.
18:07:04 [clown]
DB: I think it's there for when the code is there, and we don't do the check.
18:08:07 [clown]
DB: what do you think?
18:08:17 [clown]
JS: it's a lot of information to add to the a11y tree.
18:08:29 [clown]
JS: But, if the ATs gains something for it being there explicitly, then add it.
18:09:07 [Zakim]
-[Mozilla]
18:09:31 [clown]
davidb, you could type your thoughts.
18:09:52 [davidb]
I think you need to leave this one with me as well. I think I'd like to consider fixing in FF.
18:10:00 [davidb]
(or not)
18:10:06 [clown]
davidb, can you resolve it by next week?
18:10:15 [davidb]
Ask me Monday
18:10:19 [clown]
so we can "document freeze"?
18:10:24 [davidb]
which day?
18:10:38 [clown]
we want document freeze by next Fri.
18:10:44 [davidb]
ok i think so
18:10:54 [davidb]
otherwise i'll help decide what to do with doc
18:11:03 [clown]
that's good friday.
18:11:10 [davidb]
right, still ok.
18:11:21 [clown]
I suggest Apr 2 as document freeze day.
18:11:30 [davidb]
+1
18:11:50 [clown]
so: I want all the edits "on my desk" by the end of the next meeting (Mar 28)
18:12:02 [clown]
that's not a smiley. Mar 28.
18:12:11 [davidb]
ok sir
18:12:17 [davidb]
sounds like a plan
18:12:17 [clown]
thanks you all
18:12:21 [clown]
we are done.
18:12:22 [davidb]
and you
18:12:24 [davidb]
ciao
18:12:43 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
18:12:50 [clown]
zakim, please part
18:12:50 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Cynthia_Shelly, Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, [Mozilla]
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Zakim has left #aapi
18:12:57 [clown]
RRSAgent: make minutes
18:12:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:13:29 [clown]
s/ineroperability/interoperability/
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RRSAgent: make minutes
18:13:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:15:42 [clown]
rrsagent, please part
18:15:42 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-actions.rdf :
18:15:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Cynthia to look into UIA Express and UIA mappings for role=heading to check for heading paragraph style. [1]
18:15:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-irc#T17-17-36