16:59:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
16:59:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-irc
17:00:13 <clown> meeting:  WAI PF UAIG Weekly Teleconference
17:00:26 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:00:41 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Mar/0046.html
17:00:53 <clown> RRSAgent:  make log public
17:01:01 <clown> RRSAgent:  make minutes
17:01:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-minutes.html clown
17:01:30 <clown> RRSAgent:  make log public
17:02:37 <clown> zakim, what conference is this?
17:02:37 <Zakim> this will be WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM conference code 2274, clown
17:02:44 <clown> zakim, this is pf
17:02:44 <Zakim> clown, I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be pf".
17:02:57 <clown> trackbot, start meeting
17:02:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
17:03:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:03:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
17:03:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:03:02 <trackbot> Date: 21 March 2013
17:03:06 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has now started
17:03:13 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
17:03:17 <clown> RRSAgent:  make log public
17:03:21 <davidb> Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter
17:03:21 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
17:03:34 <Zakim> -David_Bolter
17:03:35 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has ended
17:03:35 <Zakim> Attendees were David_Bolter
17:03:45 <davidb> \o/
17:03:53 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has now started
17:04:00 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
17:04:35 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:04:46 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:04:46 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:05:04 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:04 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:19 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
17:05:20 <davidb> Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter
17:05:21 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
17:05:25 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Mar/0046.html
17:06:13 <clown> Topic:  ACTION-1175
17:06:17 <clown> ACTION-1175?
17:06:17 <trackbot> ACTION-1175 -- David Bolter to status of ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT in MSAA/IA2 column for role=heading -- due 2013-03-18 -- OPEN
17:06:17 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1175
17:06:28 <Zakim> -David_Bolter
17:07:05 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
17:07:19 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
17:07:23 <cyns> hi
17:07:38 <clown> action-1175?
17:07:39 <trackbot> ACTION-1175 -- David Bolter to status of ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT in MSAA/IA2 column for role=heading -- due 2013-03-18 -- OPEN
17:07:39 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1175
17:10:19 <clown> DB:  these are compatible:  ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT means the role is exposed as a text string.
17:10:47 <clown> DB:  let me retract that.  I was thinking of a different enum.
17:11:58 <clown> DB:  can we change it to "heading"?
17:12:14 <clown> JS:  depends on whether IE agrees — we want ineroperability.
17:13:20 <clown> DB:  in some ways it doesn't matter, since ATs should be using the IA2 role.
17:14:13 <clown> JS:  why not drop the MSAA part entirely?
17:14:25 <davidb> (fine with me)
17:14:25 <clown> CS:  what if an AT isn't looking at IA2 information.
17:17:36 <clown> ACTION:  Cynthia to look into UIA Express and UIA mappings for role=heading to check for heading paragraph style.
17:17:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1185 - Look into UIA Express and UIA mappings for role=heading to check for heading paragraph style. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2013-03-28].
17:18:22 <clown> JS:  so what about FF?
17:18:48 <clown> DB/CS:  we shouldn't remove the MSAA role for graceful degradation.
17:24:17 <davidb> i updated the action.
17:25:05 <clown> JS:  time frame?
17:25:27 <clown> DB:  I need to discuss with one team member, and then I can give a ETA.
17:25:57 <clown> topic:  action-1183
17:26:01 <clown> action-1183>
17:26:02 <trackbot> ACTION-1183 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to check UAIG for mapping a listbox to a menu when in a combobox. Also, fix this in test case 771 to reflect change. -- due 2013-03-25 -- OPEN
17:26:02 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1183
17:26:24 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
17:28:47 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit/771
17:29:54 <clown> DB:  we have a note in our code that it has role menu on ATK.
17:30:03 <clown> CS:  I think it just a paste error.
17:30:12 <clown> s/it just/it's just/
17:30:43 <clown> DB: we probably do it for IA2 — let me look at our tests.
17:31:56 <clown> DB:  I can't find it that way.  No test for it.
17:32:44 <clown> JS:  I could make a test file, and test IA2.
17:33:06 <clown> CS:  If you make a test file, and test it for IA2 and AT-SPI, then send us a link.
17:34:30 <clown> topic:  issue-550
17:34:34 <clown> issue-550?
17:34:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-550 -- Come up with a date to stop editing UAIG in preparation for the next Last Call Draft -- open
17:34:34 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/550
17:34:59 <clown> action-851?
17:34:59 <trackbot> ACTION-851 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to look through APG design patterns re: menus for examples that relate to UAIG 5.8.4 -- due 2013-02-01 -- OPEN
17:34:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/851
17:35:28 <clown> CS:  mark it as at-risk, and that allows us to remove it without going to last call.
17:36:09 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit/771
17:36:19 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_menus
17:37:30 <clown> CS:  the overall question is:  are ATs relying on these events?
17:39:08 <clown> JS:  also, the events one sees depends on the DHTML itself.
17:41:04 <clown> JS:  I will bring this up with a neon sign at Mon's PF call.
17:41:17 <clown> CS:  I also want feedback from the IE team.
17:41:50 <clown> DB:  I've got to reach out to some people to find out why we fire these events.
17:42:31 <clown> CS:  can you add an editorial note that we are considering removing these events.
17:42:48 <clown> JS: I will do that by end of day, and send an email to cynthia and david.
17:43:51 <clown> topic: action-1152?
17:43:56 <clown> action-1152?
17:43:56 <trackbot> ACTION-1152 -- Cynthia Shelly to investigate whether a pure UIA implementation does not have a description field -- due 2013-01-28 -- OPEN
17:43:56 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1152
17:44:26 <clown> issue-551?
17:44:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-551 -- When UAIG enters CR, we need to ask Director if we have to have 2 mappings to all platforms, or just demonstrate implementability of mapping via a sample and say all the mappings are therefore defined implementable -- open
17:44:26 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/551
17:44:59 <clown> CS:  I need to discuss with others.  I will prioritize that.
17:47:07 <clown> JS:  the problem is:  if the desription has display:none, what is the pointer pointing to?
17:47:28 <clown> CS:  to null, perhaps.  But, probably in the text field.
17:47:34 <clown> CS:  but I will double check.
17:49:17 <clown> topic:  document freeze
17:49:25 <clown> CS:  can we get this done by next week?
17:50:01 <clown> JS:  depends on how much time I have to do the last minute edits.
17:50:09 <clown> CS:  Let's look at david's.
17:50:19 <clown> topic:  Bugzilla 19772
17:50:28 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19772#c5
17:56:23 <clown> DB/CS/JS:  Lots of discussion about the bug to decipher it.
17:56:39 <clown> DB:  alex wants the text put back into the UIA express column.
17:56:44 <clown> CS:  why does it matter?
17:57:16 <clown> DB:  interoperability:  we have landed some UIA express stuff.
17:57:26 <clown> DB:  I need to reach out to alex and get more information.
17:57:54 <clown> DB:  and the person who did the work.
17:59:13 <clown> topic:  action-1157?
17:59:19 <clown> action-1157?
17:59:19 <trackbot> ACTION-1157 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to expose proper mapping of aria-atomic for MSAA/IAccessible2 -- due 2013-02-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:59:19 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1157
18:01:40 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-atomic
18:06:11 <clown> DB:  it is information to the AT.
18:06:46 <clown> DB:  if we collapse and not expose anything when false, then we are taking away a little information.
18:07:04 <clown> DB:  I think it's there for when the code is there, and we don't do the check.
18:08:07 <clown> DB:  what do you think?
18:08:17 <clown> JS:  it's a lot of information to add to the a11y tree.
18:08:29 <clown> JS: But, if the ATs gains something for it being there explicitly, then add it.
18:09:07 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
18:09:31 <clown> davidb, you could type your thoughts.
18:09:52 <davidb> I think you need to leave this one with me as well. I think I'd like to consider fixing in FF.
18:10:00 <davidb> (or not)
18:10:06 <clown> davidb, can you resolve it by next week?
18:10:15 <davidb> Ask me Monday
18:10:19 <clown> so we can "document freeze"?
18:10:24 <davidb> which day?
18:10:38 <clown> we want document freeze by next Fri.
18:10:44 <davidb> ok i think so
18:10:54 <davidb> otherwise i'll help decide what to do with doc
18:11:03 <clown> that's good friday.
18:11:10 <davidb> right, still ok.
18:11:21 <clown> I suggest Apr 2 as document freeze day.
18:11:30 <davidb> +1
18:11:50 <clown> so:  I want all the edits "on my desk" by the end of the next meeting (Mar 28)
18:12:02 <clown> that's not a smiley.  Mar 28.
18:12:11 <davidb> ok sir
18:12:17 <davidb> sounds like a plan
18:12:17 <clown> thanks you all
18:12:21 <clown> we are done.
18:12:22 <davidb> and you
18:12:24 <davidb> ciao
18:12:43 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
18:12:50 <clown> zakim, please part
18:12:50 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Cynthia_Shelly, Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, [Mozilla]
18:12:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
18:12:57 <clown> RRSAgent:  make minutes
18:12:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:13:29 <clown> s/ineroperability/interoperability/
18:13:53 <clown> RRSAgent:  make minutes
18:13:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:15:42 <clown> rrsagent, please part
18:15:42 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-actions.rdf :
18:15:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Cynthia to look into UIA Express and UIA mappings for role=heading to check for heading paragraph style. [1]
18:15:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-aapi-irc#T17-17-36