IRC log of forms on 2013-03-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:59:26 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #forms
- 14:59:26 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-forms-irc
- 14:59:28 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:59:28 [Zakim]
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- 14:59:30 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
- 14:59:30 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
- 14:59:31 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
- 14:59:31 [trackbot]
- Date: 20 March 2013
- 14:59:48 [Steven]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0014
- 14:59:56 [Steven]
- Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0014
- 15:00:01 [Steven]
- Chair: Steven
- 15:03:30 [Zakim]
- IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
- 15:03:36 [Zakim]
- +??P32
- 15:03:43 [Steven]
- zakim, I am ?
- 15:03:43 [Zakim]
- +Steven; got it
- 15:04:14 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:04:30 [alain]
- Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
- 15:04:30 [Zakim]
- ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
- 15:04:52 [ebruchez]
- ebruchez has joined #forms
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- +ebruchez
- 15:06:44 [nvdbleek]
- nvdbleek has joined #forms
- 15:07:16 [nvdbleek]
- zaki, code?
- 15:07:22 [nvdbleek]
- zakim,code?
- 15:07:22 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
- 15:07:51 [Zakim]
- +nvdbleek
- 15:07:59 [pfennell]
- pfennell has joined #forms
- 15:08:15 [nvdbleek]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:08:15 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Steven, [IPcaller], ebruchez, nvdbleek
- 15:08:16 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see pfennell, nvdbleek, ebruchez, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, alain, windauer, trackbot
- 15:08:49 [windauer]
- windauer has left #forms
- 15:09:14 [pfennell]
- Joining the call in a minute.
- 15:09:27 [Steven]
- We'll start when you get here
- 15:09:50 [Zakim]
- +pfennell
- 15:11:02 [nvdbleek]
- scribe: nick
- 15:11:08 [Steven]
- Topic: Reminder - Call times back to normal next week
- 15:11:08 [Steven]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0000.html
- 15:11:26 [nvdbleek]
- Topic: Orbeon Forms 4.0
- 15:11:26 [Steven]
- Topic: Orbeon Forms 4.0
- 15:11:26 [Steven]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0008.html
- 15:11:26 [nvdbleek]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0008.html
- 15:12:02 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: congratulations with the release
- 15:12:03 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to add Orbeon announcement to home page
- 15:12:03 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1938 - Add Orbeon announcement to home page [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-03-27].
- 15:12:21 [nvdbleek]
- Topic: [ACTION-1934] Completed (Update the XML and relax-ng schema (change
- 15:12:22 [nvdbleek]
- mediatype to accept on upload))
- 15:12:22 [nvdbleek]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0013.html
- 15:13:02 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: Erik you commented it
- 15:13:25 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: I think there is an issue with XForms-20-Schema.xsd: you replaced the nested mediatype element with an accept element. But the mediatype element must stay, and an accept attribute must be added instead.
- 15:13:31 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: If you see the diff
- 15:13:33 [ebruchez]
- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/xformsusers/rev/79a8870aa69c
- 15:14:04 [Steven]
- reopen action-1934
- 15:14:05 [trackbot]
- Re-opened ACTION-1934 Update the XML and relax-ng schema (change mediatype to accept on upload).
- 15:14:39 [nvdbleek]
- Topic: textarea/@mediatype and Rich Text Editors
- 15:14:39 [nvdbleek]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0011.html
- 15:14:40 [nvdbleek]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Feb/0002.html
- 15:14:57 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: Alain said that a media-type isn't enough
- 15:15:07 [nvdbleek]
- alain: There are different kind of editors
- 15:15:26 [nvdbleek]
- alain: They want to say which options they want
- 15:16:15 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: I can see this is a valid thing to do, but I think we should only handle the general case for now (only specifying the type)
- 15:16:49 [nvdbleek]
- alain: Users want different editors
- 15:17:48 [nvdbleek]
- nvdbleek: On the last call we kind of agreed that it should be type based, similar to xs:data for a date control
- 15:18:37 [nvdbleek]
- alain: In xsltforms there is a way to associate types with widgets
- 15:20:12 [nvdbleek]
- nvdbleek: Currently there is no cross-implementation way to specify widgets/custom components, so I think there is no need in to map types to widgets for now
- 15:21:11 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: On output we have media type to specify the 'renderer' to use, this is simpler then specifying it in the model with a data type for the form author
- 15:21:57 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: There are two aspects to the consistency we have the datatypes on the one side (for input) and the media type attribute on output on the other side
- 15:23:22 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: there is a convenience aspect on specifying it in the view. In the passed we were thinking of also allowing other things like readonly to also be specify able in the view
- 15:23:30 [ebruchez]
- xforms:html
- 15:23:56 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: If we want it to be data type driven we need to come up with a xs datatype
- 15:24:34 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: in his email he said it as a restriction of a datatype
- 15:25:57 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: to me it should be simple. If you have a datatype, then it should be specified in the spec (like xforms:email), but it will be a marker data type because we can't specify the rules to make it valid html
- 15:26:25 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: We could also go for both, in the model and on the control
- 15:26:49 [nvdbleek]
- alain: I like the the standard datatype for html
- 15:28:03 [nvdbleek]
- alain: in XSLTForms you will still have the way to specify the widget to use by restricting xforms:html
- 15:28:21 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: Would we require any validation on that datatype?
- 15:30:01 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: if the validation differs between implementations then some implementations may submit html that other implementations not
- 15:30:17 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: most widgets do a fragment not a whole document
- 15:31:03 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: We could say that implementations aren't required to do any validation checking, but are they allowed to validate the content
- 15:31:29 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: any string that you submit to a browser gets displayed
- 15:32:12 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: So we shouldn't require that it is well-formed, ….
- 15:32:25 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: We shouldn't require that it is validated
- 15:33:07 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: it is very hard to validate if something is valid html
- 15:33:26 [ebruchez]
- (it's hard to find a way to specify it)
- 15:33:29 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: how does XSLTForms handle validation on html widgets?
- 15:33:47 [nvdbleek]
- alain: Everything the widgets makes is valid html
- 15:34:15 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: the xforms:html can't be invalid (all values are valid according to the xforms processor)
- 15:34:39 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: The proposal is to add new data type, do we call it xforms:htmlfragment
- 15:36:34 [ebruchez]
- xforms:xhtmlFragment
- 15:36:56 [ebruchez]
- xforms:HTMLFragment
- 15:37:13 [nvdbleek]
- s/xforms:htmlfragment/xforms:HTMLFragment/g
- 15:37:40 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: no extra validation (any string is valid)
- 15:38:21 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: The widget may guarantee to always generate valid HTML
- 15:38:31 [ebruchez]
- s/xforms:xhtmlFragment/xforms:htmlFragment
- 15:40:19 [nvdbleek]
- RESOLUTION: Add a new xforms data type xforms:HTMLFragment that will trigger a rich text editor
- 15:42:03 [nvdbleek]
- nvdbleek: does it work for input or only textarea?
- 15:42:26 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: input is single line input, text area is multiple lines
- 15:44:07 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: but we have the use-case were we want on line with only bold, italic and links
- 15:44:34 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: Should we say a should or may in text area?
- 15:45:45 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: If you have an html host language then a should is reasonable (a must probably not), but if you have another host language… it kind a makes sense to also support it
- 15:46:12 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: reads text about xs:date
- 15:46:49 [nvdbleek]
- Implementations should provide a convenient means for entry of datatypes and take into account localization and internationalization issues such as representation of numbers. For example, an input bound to an instance data node of type xsd:date might provide a calendar control to enter dates; similarly, an input control bound to of type boolean might be rendered as a checkbox.
- 15:47:01 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: should we use the same kind of wording
- 15:48:15 [nvdbleek]
- ACTION: nick to add the xforms:HTMLFragment data type and add text to the text area control similar like it is done for xs:date on xf:input
- 15:48:17 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1939 - Add the xforms:HTMLFragment data type and add text to the text area control similar like it is done for xs:date on xf:input [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2013-03-27].
- 15:49:49 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: xfroms:output could also be amended that it should support html formatting based on the new type
- 15:51:14 [nvdbleek]
- nvdbleek: we shouldn't do anything because the text is already there
- 15:52:36 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: The spec only specifies image/* for media type attribute on output.
- 15:54:05 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: Is the media type still useful on output?
- 15:54:56 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: when the media type is text/html and the data type is xs:string we render the html, if it is absent it is just a string
- 15:56:54 [nvdbleek]
- nvdbleek: couldn't we just not consider they media type attribute as an extra hint of how to render the output when the type of the data isn't clear
- 15:57:27 [nvdbleek]
- Steven: We leave it as it is
- 15:57:32 [nvdbleek]
- nvdbleek: I think so
- 15:58:00 [nvdbleek]
- ebruchez: I think that it is fine for now, until I come up with something new
- 15:59:31 [Zakim]
- -pfennell
- 15:59:34 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 15:59:35 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 15:59:36 [Zakim]
- -ebruchez
- 15:59:38 [Zakim]
- IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
- 15:59:38 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Steven, [IPcaller], ebruchez, nvdbleek, pfennell
- 15:59:59 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:59:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-forms-minutes.html Steven
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