17:00:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-techs-tf
17:00:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-irc
17:01:00 <Joshue108> zakim, this will be 9224
17:01:00 <Zakim> ok, Joshue108; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 31 minutes ago
17:01:09 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make log world
17:01:19 <Joshue108> Meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
17:01:22 <Joshue108> Chair: Joshue
17:01:54 <Joshue108> agenda + Discussion on latest technique feedback.
17:01:54 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130117misc/results
17:02:02 <Joshue108> agenda + Draw up next round of techniques for review.
17:02:11 <Joshue108> agenda + Progressing the new 'User Agent Testing Methodology and Notes' document. [1]
17:02:12 <Joshue108> [1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/UAtesting
17:03:30 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #html-techs-tf
17:04:17 <Joshue108> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:04:17 <Zakim> I notice WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has restarted
17:04:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.253.381.aaaa, ??P0, [IPcaller]
17:04:34 <Zakim> +Detlev
17:04:40 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #html-techs-tf
17:05:11 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Detlev
17:05:11 <Zakim> +Detlev; got it
17:05:12 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
17:05:40 <Joshue108> zakim, +1 253.381.aaa is Robin
17:05:40 <Zakim> I don't understand '+1 253.381.aaa is Robin', Joshue108
17:05:46 <Joshue108> zakim, 253.381.aaa is Robin
17:05:46 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '253.381.aaa'
17:05:51 <Joshue108> zakim, 253.381.aaaa is Robin
17:05:51 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '253.381.aaaa'
17:06:00 <Joshue108> zakim, +1 253.381.aaaa is Robin
17:06:00 <Zakim> I don't understand '+1 253.381.aaaa is Robin', Joshue108
17:06:07 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #html-techs-tf
17:06:12 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:06:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.253.381.aaaa, ??P0, Detlev.a, Detlev, James_Nurthen
17:06:22 <Joshue108> zakim, 253.381 is Robin
17:06:22 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '253.381'
17:06:30 <jamesn> zakim, aaaa is Robin
17:06:30 <Zakim> +Robin; got it
17:07:09 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
17:07:09 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
17:07:19 <jamesn> zakim, Detlev.a is Joshue
17:07:19 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
17:07:26 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:07:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Robin, ??P0, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen
17:07:49 <jamesn> zakim, ??P0 is Loretta
17:07:49 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
17:07:56 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:07:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Robin, Loretta, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen
17:08:23 <Zakim> -Loretta
17:09:15 <Loretta> hi
17:09:22 <Detlev> See whehter this will be associated with Detev
17:09:24 <Zakim> +??P0
17:09:33 <Joshue108> zakim, ??P0 is Joshue
17:09:33 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
17:09:43 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:09:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Robin, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Joshue.a
17:09:44 <Joshue108> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:09:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see Robin, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Joshue.a
17:09:54 <jamesn> zakim, Joshue is Loretta
17:09:54 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
17:10:04 <jamesn> zakim, Joshue.a is Joshue
17:10:04 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
17:10:13 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:10:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Robin, Loretta, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Joshue
17:10:47 <Loretta> scribe:Loretta
17:11:34 <Loretta> Boeing
17:11:55 <Loretta> Robin tells us about her background.
17:13:28 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 1
17:13:28 <Zakim> agendum 1. "1) Actions for dealing with technique feedback." taken up [from Joshue108]
17:14:02 <Joshue108>  Discussion on latest technique feedback.
17:14:02 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130117misc/results
17:14:24 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130117misc/results#xlandmark
17:15:11 <jamesn> http://tinyurl.com/abtysuu
17:15:21 <Detlev> http://tinyurl.com/abtysuu
17:15:36 <Loretta> David took an action item to rework and combine the landmark techniques.
17:16:11 <Detlev> http://tinyurl.com/ax39jp9
17:16:12 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_bypass_blocks_of_content,_and_provide_programmatic_structure.
17:16:49 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_bypass_blocks_of_content,_and_provide_programmatic_structure.
17:17:16 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_bypass_blocks_of_content,_and_provide_programmatic_structure.
17:17:17 <Zakim> -Joshue
17:17:17 <Detlev> http://tinyurl.com/ax39jp9
17:18:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:18:11 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #html-techs-tf
17:19:12 <Loretta> Josh: Let's put the new technique to survey for next week, rather than trying to cover this on the fly.
17:19:13 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:20:37 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #html-techs-tf
17:23:15 <Detlev> web
17:23:30 <robin> web
17:24:20 <jamesn> JN: Added some comments. Imagine the survey will need actions on the test procedure.
17:25:07 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #html-techs-tf
17:25:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:25:35 <Loretta> Heading technique - someone (James?) to update the examples.
17:25:40 <Detlev> The retrofitting case seemed pretty compelling
17:25:45 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
17:25:45 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
17:26:30 <Loretta> Pushback on the net about using role=header in HMTL, since there is already heading markup.
17:26:47 <Loretta> This is an issue with many of our simple examples.
17:27:42 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls
17:29:48 <Loretta> Most compelling use case: repair technique for legacy code that wasn't designed using heading markup.
17:30:51 <Loretta> Changing the dom hierarchy can break such web sites. Adding an attribute is a safe change.
17:31:20 <Loretta> Josh has specific real-life examples of such situations.
17:32:52 <Loretta> Detlev: if we tag this clearly as a repair technique, it should be clear that this is not a recommendation to use role header instead of heading markup.
17:33:42 <Loretta> Loretta: the labelledby technique that started the discussion probably should be using heading markup instead of role header.
17:34:38 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Headings_using_role%3Dheading
17:35:15 <Loretta> James will craft the text for the role=heading technique, to capture these nuances.
17:35:22 <jamesn> ACTION: JN to find write some text about use cases for roles on things which would be better in native html
17:40:37 <Loretta> flowto technique: put it on hold for now, since it doesn't seem to be helpful at this point.
17:40:58 <Loretta> Detlev: Firefox and JAWS has some support.
17:42:00 <Loretta> Loretta: Digging into flowto, I think it will be very hard to use, even when there is accessibility support.
17:47:43 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 2
17:47:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "2) Progressing the new 'User Agent Testing Methodology and Notes' document. http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/UAtesting" taken up [from Joshue108]
17:50:35 <Loretta> UA Testing doc: people are encouraged to review and edit the wiki directly.
17:51:15 <Loretta> Detlev: what should the document try to achieve? Educate people who are not familiar with screen reader technology?
17:51:39 <Loretta> Josh: Maybe put together the steps to test using AT?
17:52:25 <Loretta> Josh: Capture and document the fact that we are considering testing issues for techniques.
17:52:57 <Loretta> Detlev: SSB-Bart has some good documentation on this, that could go into  the Resources section.
17:53:21 <robin> As a new person to this, that would be very useful for people like me
17:53:42 <Loretta> Josh takes the action to update the document with this kind of information.
17:55:10 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Making_actions_keyboard_accessible_by_using_keyboard_event_handlers_with_WAI-ARIA_controls
17:55:23 <robin> Thanks for having me, I need to drop off for another meeting. I do get to go to CSUN and would love to meet up with people
17:55:36 <Zakim> -Robin
17:57:22 <Detlev> here is the link to the SS bart resource
17:57:24 <Detlev> http://www.readability.com/read?url=https%3A//www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog/2013/01/02/how-browsers-interact-with-screen-readers-and-where-aria-fits-in-the-mix/
17:58:36 <Detlev> its actually not a description how to test with AT
18:00:55 <Zakim> -Joshue
18:02:17 <Zakim> -Detlev
18:02:18 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:02:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jamesn
18:02:22 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
18:02:23 <Zakim> -Loretta
18:02:25 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has ended
18:02:25 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.253.381.aaaa, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Robin, Loretta, Joshue
18:02:30 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:02:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jamesn
18:03:39 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #html-techs-tf
18:04:06 <Joshue> no probs!
18:04:09 <jamesn> thanks
18:04:13 <Joshue> Sorry guys
18:04:17 <Joshue> chat next week!
18:04:27 <Joshue> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:04:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue
18:32:58 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #html-techs-tf