IRC log of wcag2ict on 2013-01-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:00 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:55:00 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/18-wcag2ict-irc
15:00:04 [Loic]: Loic has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:11 [Zakim]: WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
15:00:18 [Zakim]: +Shadi
15:00:28 [BBailey]: BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:40 [Zakim]: +??P3
15:00:45 [Judy]: agenda?
15:01:00 [Zakim]: +Judy
15:01:08 [Judy]: zakim, drop item 4
15:01:08 [Zakim]: agendum 4, Action items and plan for next agenda, dropped
15:01:16 [Mike_P]: Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict
15:01:24 [Zakim]: +Bruce_Bailey
15:01:29 [Loic]: Zakim, ??P3 is Loïc_Martinez
15:01:30 [Zakim]: +Loïc_Martinez; got it
15:01:41 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:01:49 [Judy]: agenda+ Survey on proposed responses to 1st draft comments LC-2676 and LC-2665 [2]
15:01:49 [Judy]: agenda+ Approach to “set of software” – agree a definition or interpret as “software”
15:01:49 [Judy]: agenda+ Agree approach to handling WGAG2ICT/M376 differences – initially captured in Peter’s draft table [3]
15:01:49 [Judy]: agenda+ Action items and plan for next agenda [4]
15:02:06 [shadi]: zakim, mute me
15:02:06 [Zakim]: Shadi should now be muted
15:02:10 [MaryJo]: MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:30 [korn]: korn has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:37 [shadi]: ack me
15:02:44 [Judy]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130115/results
15:02:50 [shadi]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Shadi, Loïc_Martinez, Judy, Bruce_Bailey, [IPcaller]
15:03:13 [Zakim]: +Kiran_Kaja
15:03:22 [shadi]: zakim, ipcaller is Mike_P
15:03:22 [Zakim]: +Mike_P; got it
15:03:41 [Zakim]: + +1.512.255.aaaa
15:04:09 [MaryJo]: zakim, aaaa is MaryJo
15:04:09 [Zakim]: +MaryJo; got it
15:04:27 [MaryJo]: scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:04:35 [MaryJo]: scribenick: MaryJo
15:04:37 [shadi]: zakim, mute me
15:04:37 [Zakim]: Shadi should now be muted
15:05:46 [MaryJo]: zakim, next item
15:05:46 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Survey on proposed responses to 1st draft comments LC-2676 and LC-2665" taken up [from 2]
15:05:55 [Judy]: agenda?
15:05:59 [Judy]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130115/results
15:06:00 [Zakim]: +[Oracle]
15:06:02 [korn]: Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
15:06:02 [Zakim]: +Peter_Korn; got it
15:11:02 [Judy]: Leave it as editor's discretion.
15:12:11 [MaryJo]: RESOLUTION: Accept Mary Jo's proposed resolution for LC-2676 from the survey with 'comprised' replacing 'comprised of'.
15:13:02 [korn]: q+
15:13:10 [MaryJo]: LC-2655 - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130115/results#xq19
15:13:50 [MaryJo]: Loic made a new proposal based on other's comments.
15:14:19 [MaryJo]: Suggestion that 'we' is replaced with 'The task force' throughout.
15:16:12 [MaryJo]: RESOLUTION: Accept proposed resolution to LC-2655 using Loic's new proposal from the survey and replacing 'we' with 'task force'.
15:16:26 [MaryJo]: zakim, next item
15:16:26 [Zakim]: I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
15:16:35 [korn]: q-
15:16:40 [korn]: zakim, next item
15:16:40 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "Approach to “set of software” – agree a definition or interpret as “software”" taken up [from Judy]
15:17:02 [Judy]: zakim, who's on the phone
15:17:02 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Judy
15:17:27 [Judy]: zakim, that's in your basic vocabulary!
15:17:27 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'that's in your basic vocabulary!', Judy
15:17:36 [Judy]: zakim, who's on the phone?
15:17:36 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Shadi (muted), Loïc_Martinez, Judy, Bruce_Bailey, Mike_P, Kiran_Kaja, MaryJo, [Oracle]
15:17:39 [Zakim]: [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:17:48 [shadi]: q+
15:18:04 [korn]: q+
15:18:09 [shadi]: q-
15:20:02 [MaryJo]: regrets: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Andi_Snow-Weaver, David_MacDonald
15:22:42 [MaryJo]: Set of software is a difficult topic, and this is a place where EU M376 has decided to use 'software' in place of 'set of Web pages'.
15:22:56 [korn]: q
15:22:57 [korn]: q-
15:23:48 [korn]: q_
15:23:51 [korn]: q+
15:25:19 [BBailey]: q+ to ask who is arguing that we *must* use set of software?
15:26:47 [korn]: q_
15:26:49 [korn]: q-
15:27:59 [MaryJo]: The EU M376 had reached general agreement that 'software' made sense.
15:28:52 [Mike_P]: q+
15:29:08 [MaryJo]: If this replacement continues to be used in M376 and gets picked up by the Section 508 Refresh, perhaps a note should be made that the requirements are a slightly modified version of WCAG 2.0 because the changes are critical to the appropriate application of WCAG to software.
15:29:51 [Judy]: q+
15:29:54 [MaryJo]: The WCAG working group did not want us to make the replacement of 'software' for 'set of web pages' instead of using 'set of software'.
15:30:21 [BBailey]: q-
15:30:41 [MaryJo]: Perhaps we can provide enough advisory language surrounding it that we can give enough support to this replacement.
15:32:30 [MaryJo]: The task force is more constrained in what we can put in our document. We should harmonize as much as possible, but there may need to be some acceptable divergence in the text in our document vs. the M376 and Section 508.
15:33:57 [MaryJo]: We may be able to formulate something in a new sub-group to take forward to the WCAG working group and coninue the discussion with them.
15:34:45 [MaryJo]: s/coninue/continue/
15:36:04 [BBailey]: q+
15:36:14 [MaryJo]: The WCAG working group has the argument that this all flows from the wording in the conformance, so that's why the replacements were not accepted before.
15:36:53 [MaryJo]: We should revisit this topic next week.
15:37:23 [MaryJo]: s/conformance/unit of conformance/
15:37:26 [korn]: https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/comparison-to-m376
15:37:30 [MaryJo]: zakim, next item
15:37:30 [Zakim]: I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
15:37:35 [korn]: q-
15:37:40 [BBailey]: q-
15:37:42 [korn]: ack Mike_P
15:37:45 [korn]: ack Judy
15:37:50 [MaryJo]: zakim, next item
15:37:50 [Zakim]: agendum 7. "Agree approach to handling WGAG2ICT/M376 differences – initially captured in Peter’s draft table" taken up [from 3]
15:37:53 [Zakim]: +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:38:41 [greggvanderheiden]: greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
15:39:27 [Judy]: q?
15:39:32 [Judy]: zakim, who's on the phone?
15:39:32 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Shadi (muted), Loïc_Martinez, Judy, Bruce_Bailey, Mike_P, Kiran_Kaja, MaryJo, [Oracle], Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:39:34 [Zakim]: [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:39:51 [MaryJo]: Our wiki isn't up-to-date compared to our latest WCAG2ICT document, so the text in the table is the same as our 2nd draft document.
15:40:22 [MaryJo]: The EU M376 content in the table is from the December 5 version.
15:43:14 [greggvanderheiden]: HI sorry to be late
15:43:22 [greggvanderheiden]: q+
15:43:47 [BBailey]: q+ to ask for an SC example of blended approach?
15:45:10 [MaryJo]: We would like to be able to take a blended approach to resolving the differences, with some items being fixed in the WCAG2ICT document and some fixed in EU M376, as it makes the best solution.
15:45:19 [BBailey]: q-
15:45:30 [MaryJo]: s/HI sorry to be late//
15:45:59 [korn]: q?
15:47:17 [MaryJo]: We should go through the items in the table that show differences with suggested updates in a survey.
15:48:42 [Mike_P]: q+
15:49:29 [korn]: q+
15:50:06 [shadi]: q+
15:50:28 [MaryJo]: However, our document is a note and not a standard. We should make changes in our document, as makes sense but don't necessarily have to harmonize all of the verbiage by changing M376.
15:50:52 [shadi]: q-
15:51:51 [korn]: ack greggvanderheiden
15:53:37 [MaryJo]: Members of WCAG2ICT can comment on EU M376 and 508 individually.
15:54:02 [Loic]: q+
15:54:26 [MaryJo]: It is more important for the standards bodies to harmonize than for them to fully harmonize with our task force's note.
15:55:47 [Loic]: q-
15:56:41 [greggvanderheiden]: Q+
16:00:04 [korn]: q-
16:00:07 [MaryJo]: This task force is not planning to formally submit comments to M376 directly, but we want to have a meeting of the minds so we could come to an agreement and then individually make comments.
16:00:08 [korn]: ack Mike_P
16:00:19 [Mike_P]: q+
16:01:43 [MaryJo]: Other than European and English spelling of words, any minor differences in wording typically brings up questions so we want to minimize that as much as possible.
16:03:13 [Judy]: q+
16:06:25 [korn]: q+
16:07:12 [Zakim]: -Judy
16:08:15 [MaryJo]: In EU, they are mandating word changes from 'must' to 'shall'.
16:09:29 [korn]: q?
16:10:01 [BBailey]: q+
16:10:48 [Zakim]: +Judy
16:11:11 [MaryJo]: Since these terms mean essentially the same thing, it will be an acceptable divergence between our document and M376. However, there must be something in the preamble that shall explain that 'must' and 'shall' mean the same thing.
16:11:24 [Mike_P]: q-
16:11:48 [korn]: ack greggvanderheiden
16:12:26 [korn]: ack Judy
16:12:51 [BBailey]: q-
16:14:01 [korn]: korn has joined #wcag2ict
16:16:08 [MaryJo]: We should cover the comparisons and suggested changes in multiple surveys based on this comparison. One for documents and one for software, and later one for closed products.
16:16:19 [MaryJo]: s/based on this comparison//
16:18:32 [korn]: korn has joined #wcag2ict
16:18:34 [korn]: q+
16:27:11 [Zakim]: -Judy
16:27:33 [MaryJo]: Circling back to the 'set of software' subject. M376 and 508 could decide to use those SC for 'software', but we are constrained to using 'set of software'.
16:31:06 [MaryJo]: The Access Board really does want clear advice from our task force.
16:33:05 [MaryJo]: The task force will not be meeting Friday 18 January, but will meet on 22 January (Tuesday) instead.
16:34:54 [Zakim]: -Kiran_Kaja
16:36:10 [shadi]: ack me
16:36:12 [MaryJo]: We need to check to see if all of the previous meeting's resolutions as well as this meeting's updates are entered into the system. Mary Jo will send a list of the issues so Gregg can take them to the WCAG working group.
16:37:39 [MaryJo]: We also need to bring the current WCAG2ICT task force document text back into the Google wiki so it is up-to-date.
16:38:15 [Zakim]: -[Oracle]
16:38:16 [Zakim]: -Bruce_Bailey
16:38:18 [Zakim]: -Loïc_Martinez
16:38:19 [Zakim]: -MaryJo
16:38:19 [Zakim]: -Shadi
16:38:20 [Zakim]: -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:38:36 [Zakim]: -Mike_P
16:38:37 [Zakim]: WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
16:38:37 [Zakim]: Attendees were Shadi, Judy, Bruce_Bailey, Loïc_Martinez, Kiran_Kaja, Mike_P, +1.512.255.aaaa, MaryJo, Peter_Korn, Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:40:16 [shadi]: trackbot, end meeting
16:40:16 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
16:40:17 [Zakim]: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:40:24 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:40:24 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html trackbot
16:40:25 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
16:40:29 [greggvanderheiden]: greggvanderheiden has left #wcag2ict
16:40:31 [MaryJo]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:40:31 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
16:54:51 [Judy]: Judy has joined #wcag2ict
17:09:52 [korn]: korn has left #wcag2ict
19:18:49 [Judy]: rrsagent, make minutes public
19:18:49 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Judy. Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:18:58 [Judy]: rrsagent, make log public
19:19:14 [Judy]: rrsagent, make minutes
19:19:14 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html Judy
19:20:49 [Judy]: title: WCAG2ICT Task Force Meeting
19:22:36 [Judy]: chair: Mike_Pluke
19:23:12 [Judy]: rrsagent, make minutes
19:23:12 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html Judy
19:25:28 [MaryJo]: ok, yes it works.
19:25:43 [MaryJo]: s/ok, yes it works.//
19:25:51 [Judy]: rrsagent, bye
19:25:51 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items