19:55:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #crypto
19:55:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/07-crypto-irc
19:56:23 <mountie> mountie has joined #crypto
19:56:54 <asad> asad has joined #crypto
19:57:45 <wseltzer> wseltzer has changed the topic to: Meeting: Monday at 2000 UTC
19:58:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #crypto
19:58:53 <wseltzer> trackbot, prepare teleconf
19:58:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:58:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SEC_WebCryp
19:58:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM already started
19:58:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Cryptography Working Group Teleconference
19:58:58 <trackbot> Date: 07 January 2013
19:59:18 <Zakim> + +1.410.290.aacc
19:59:34 <Zakim> + +1.512.257.aadd
19:59:37 <markw> markw has joined #crypto
19:59:50 <virginie> Zakim, what is the conference code?
19:59:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 27978 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), virginie
19:59:53 <rbarnes> rbarnes has joined #crypto
20:00:02 <Zakim> + +1.408.540.aaee
20:00:03 <rbarnes> hello world!
20:00:10 <rbarnes> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:00:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.720.357.aaaa, +82.22.14.0.aabb, +1.410.290.aacc, +1.512.257.aadd, +1.408.540.aaee
20:00:10 <markw> Zakim, aaee is markw
20:00:13 <Zakim> +markw; got it
20:00:24 <rbarnes> zakim, aacc is rbarnes
20:00:24 <Zakim> +rbarnes; got it
20:00:28 <asad> zakim, aadd is asad
20:00:28 <Zakim> +asad; got it
20:00:30 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #crypto
20:00:40 <rbarnes> asad: zakim almost got your name right!
20:00:56 <Zakim> + +1.512.257.aaff
20:01:15 <virginie> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:01:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.720.357.aaaa, +82.22.14.0.aabb, rbarnes, asad, markw, +1.512.257.aaff
20:01:24 <Zakim> + +1.512.257.aagg
20:01:32 <virginie> Zakim, aaff is me
20:01:32 <Zakim> +virginie; got it
20:01:34 <hhalpin> Zakim, what's the code?
20:01:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 27978 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), hhalpin
20:01:41 <virginie> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.720.357.aaaa, +82.22.14.0.aabb, rbarnes, asad, markw, virginie, +1.512.257.aagg
20:01:49 <Zakim> +ddahl
20:01:52 <Zakim> + +1.408.458.aahh
20:02:00 <Zakim> +Wendy
20:02:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:02:08 <hhalpin> Zakim, IPcaller is hhalpin
20:02:08 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
20:02:14 <virginie> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:02:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.720.357.aaaa, +82.22.14.0.aabb, rbarnes, asad, markw, virginie, +1.512.257.aagg, ddahl, +1.408.458.aahh, Wendy, hhalpin
20:02:20 <Zakim> +??P14
20:02:31 <karen> karen has joined #crypto
20:02:56 <wseltzer> zakim, Google has rsleevi
20:02:56 <Zakim> +rsleevi; got it
20:03:09 <virginie> agenda+ Welcome
20:03:14 <mountie> Zakim, aaaa is mountie
20:03:14 <Zakim> +mountie; got it
20:03:25 <virginie> agenda+ implementations plan for our APIs
20:03:39 <wseltzer> zakim, mountie is aaaa
20:03:39 <Zakim> +aaaa; got it
20:03:39 <virginie> agenda F2F meeting date and location
20:03:45 <mountie> Zakim, aabb is mountie
20:03:45 <Zakim> +mountie; got it
20:03:47 <virginie> agenda+ AOB
20:03:51 <wseltzer> zakim, aabb is mountie
20:03:51 <Zakim> sorry, wseltzer, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
20:03:53 <virginie> agenda?
20:04:07 <mountie> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:04:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see aaaa, mountie, rbarnes, asad, markw, virginie, +1.512.257.aagg, ddahl, +1.408.458.aahh, Wendy, hhalpin, Google
20:04:09 <Zakim> Google has rsleevi
20:04:10 <virginie> agenda+ F2F meeting date and location
20:04:15 <virginie> agenda?
20:04:50 <wseltzer> zakim, aaaa is Zooko
20:04:50 <Zakim> +Zooko; got it
20:04:56 <karen> aagg is Karen
20:05:01 <wseltzer> zakim, aagg is Karen
20:05:01 <Zakim> +Karen; got it
20:06:12 <Zakim> +Mike_Jones
20:06:47 <selfissued> selfissued has joined #crypto
20:06:53 <rsleevi> I can scribe
20:07:04 <rsleevi> scribenick: rsleevi
20:07:36 <virginie> minutes http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-crypto-minutes.html
20:07:40 <rsleevi> Zakim, take up agendum 1
20:07:40 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from virginie]
20:08:09 <rsleevi> RESOLVED: Minutes from previous call are accepted
20:08:23 <rsleevi> virginie: Status of documents in publication
20:08:47 <rsleevi> ...: Our decision was reached on Dec 17. However, that was when publication of specifications were frozen.
20:08:58 <hhalpin> Everything is fine except the use-cases
20:09:19 <rsleevi> ... current drafts are working through publication. WebCrypto & Key Discovery were PubRules clean, so will be published tomorrow
20:09:24 <hhalpin> Worse case, use-cases can come out a bit later...
20:09:32 <rsleevi> ... use cases still needs a few editorial tweaks for pubrules
20:10:00 <rsleevi> ?? Question about origin and why definition was removed
20:10:07 <hhalpin> s/??/mountie
20:10:38 <rsleevi> rsleevi: Not sure I understand the question
20:11:04 <rsleevi> mountie: Differences make note about multi-origin support
20:12:31 <hhalpin> q+
20:13:17 <rsleevi> rsleevi: There was some discussion about multi-origin related to key discovery, that was removed during the key discovery separation. Not fully sure I understand the question, but that may have been the reason for removal
20:13:34 <rbarnes> q+
20:13:43 <virginie> ack hhalpin
20:13:46 <zooko> zooko has joined #crypto
20:13:56 <rbarnes> q-
20:14:27 <rsleevi> hhalpin: Multi-origin may have a use case. Should send the use case. It may be possible to do things for the Korean banking use case while respecting the same-origin policy
20:14:40 <hhalpin> i.e. by using digital signatures
20:14:55 <Zakim> + +1.303.661.aaii
20:15:01 <sdurbha> sdurbha has joined #crypto
20:15:09 <hhalpin> i.e. a certificate (token) can be given and have its signature verified
20:15:09 <wseltzer> zakim, aaii is sdurbha
20:15:09 <Zakim> +sdurbha; got it
20:15:16 <virginie> agenda?
20:15:31 <hhalpin> even if the user is not currently "visiting" the site with a key from the same-origin as the origin that signed the token.
20:15:41 <Zakim> + +1.303.543.aajj
20:15:48 <zooko> Zakim: aajj is zooko
20:15:50 <rsleevi> virginie: Status of high level API - ddahl, markw, et al need more time to work on it
20:15:56 <Zakim> -Zooko
20:16:12 <rsleevi> Zakim, next agendum
20:16:12 <Zakim> agendum 2. "implementations plan for our APIs" taken up [from virginie]
20:16:38 <hhalpin> q+
20:16:43 <rsleevi> virginie: Question is "When are we going to have implementations" and "When are we going to get feedback about the API and the issues highlighted"
20:16:46 <rbarnes> q?
20:16:53 <hhalpin> q-
20:17:07 <rsleevi> ... Question impacts timing of LC and schedule of WG
20:17:09 <hhalpin> Yes, I was just going to note we need to tell W3C when we hope to go to Last Call.
20:17:13 <rbarnes> q+
20:17:34 <hhalpin> +1 rbarnes!!!
20:17:38 <rsleevi> rbarnes: Has just this afternoon pushed a polyfill out to github
20:17:39 <rbarnes> http://polycrypt.net
20:17:57 <rsleevi> ... This version implements several different algorithms, most of the API.
20:18:02 <rsleevi> ... missing some of export key
20:18:13 <rsleevi> ... Test cases driven by test vectors
20:18:40 <rsleevi> ... Grep through the source for XXX spec for spec issues
20:18:51 <rbarnes> grep -R "XXX-SPEC" *
20:19:02 <virginie> q?
20:19:06 <rbarnes> q-
20:19:24 <rsleevi> rbarnes: While implementing, came across a few inconsistencies (eg: key usage vs key usageS )
20:19:40 <rsleevi> ... will be providing feedback on the spec, and looking for feedback on the implementation
20:20:27 <rsleevi> ddahl: Ongoing work, mostly infrastructural. Still trying to work out resources and timelines, not sure when he'll have details
20:20:33 <hhalpin> we'll need info on updating the charter within 2 weeks, BTW
20:21:12 <rsleevi> selfissued: No implementation to report at this time
20:21:16 <Zakim> +Zooko
20:21:25 <hhalpin> we want to make the roadmap realistic for all parties!
20:21:26 <Zakim> - +1.303.543.aajj
20:21:29 <rsleevi> virginie: Any information we should request of Microsoft before we establish our roadmap?
20:21:40 <hhalpin> q+
20:21:45 <rsleevi> selfissued: Ask that question again in two weeks
20:22:39 <markw> q+
20:22:57 <rsleevi> rsleevi: Not sure I can comment on timing. Have portions of the API (such as random) implemented in WK already, still working on resources and timing
20:23:40 <rsleevi> markw: We have an implementation of a subset of the API, in the form of a plugin at the moment. Question about when we plan to have this aligned with the API, will get back
20:24:26 <rsleevi> hhalpin: Not asking for anyone to reveal anything confidential.
20:24:43 <rsleevi> ... Mostly trying to get an idea of the WG and when we as a WG expect to enter LC with all of our issues closed
20:25:05 <rsleevi> ... when we chartered, we set a timeframe. We can realistically ask for one extension of timing
20:25:37 <rsleevi> ... we have ourselves entering LC in February
20:25:40 <rsleevi> q+
20:25:50 <virginie> ack hhalpin
20:26:02 <markw> q-
20:27:00 <selfissued> q+
20:27:10 <selfissued> I can respond if I do it now, but I have to go in about 2 minutes
20:27:25 <markw> q+
20:27:36 <wseltzer> ack rsleevi
20:27:39 <wseltzer> ack selfissued
20:27:52 <rsleevi> rsleevi: An area of concern is key import/export and key wrap/unwrap and the timing and deliverables of those
20:28:18 <rsleevi> rsleevi: Options include 1) Drop the feature 2) Do our own thing 3) Do the JOSE thing if it's ready
20:28:48 <rsleevi> selfissued: JOSE has taken it up, and has progressed on something based on JWE, and is being responsive
20:29:02 <Zakim> -Mike_Jones
20:29:48 <rsleevi> markw: Sense was use JOSE as the base, but if for any reason it wasn't ready, we cut & paste into our own
20:30:09 <rsleevi> ... What are the next steps for key wrapping / unwrapping?
20:30:22 <markw> q-
20:31:06 <rsleevi> virginie: We will need to make a decision and better understand the timing of decision. We can't delay it past LC
20:31:23 <rsleevi> ... Regarding key wrapping / unwrapping, have it as an item for the next call
20:32:07 <rsleevi> markw: Ideally we could have some progress before then
20:32:15 <hhalpin> I'm trying to remember what open issues were with MarkW's key wrapping proposal.
20:32:31 <rsleevi> virginie: We can't force people to work on that part of the spec. By adding it to the agenda we can discuss it
20:32:31 <hhalpin> I think we still wanted the feature...
20:33:24 <rsleevi> markw: Will update the proposal based on the new API, will go from there
20:33:44 <virginie> q?
20:33:50 <rsleevi> q+
20:34:44 <virginie> acl rsleevi
20:34:50 <markw> @hhalpin: yes ... I can't remember what the issues were either ;-) But at least the proposal needs to be updated for the API changes. There were also two versions: overloading import/export vs explicit wrap/unwrap & I think the group feeling was towards the latter
20:35:02 <rsleevi> rsleevi: Reminder to think about cloning cryptographic operations and whether we accept or drop the feature
20:35:04 <virginie> ack rsleevi
20:35:45 <rsleevi> Zakim, take up agendum 4
20:35:45 <Zakim> agendum 4. "F2F meeting date and location" taken up [from virginie]
20:36:00 <virginie> March 26/27/28
20:36:07 <rsleevi> Most favourable dates were the end of March - 26/27/28
20:36:30 <rsleevi> virginie: Question raised was "End of March - will we have enough feedback to sustain a F2F"
20:37:00 <rsleevi> ... As a chair, feeling is meeting is always good, but people have budgets and timing concerns
20:37:09 <rsleevi> ... Was thinking two F2F - one in march and one some time in summer
20:37:17 <virginie>  http://doodle.com/x958bvheya5rvi8q
20:38:04 <hhalpin> q+
20:38:27 <rsleevi> hhalpin: Some feeling from the editors was that delaying it may help
20:38:35 <rsleevi> ... delaying a month or a little more won't hurt
20:39:15 <rsleevi> ... options for a meeting in Korea was raised. W3C meeting is having a fall meeting in China. Spec may still be in LC or CR phase
20:39:26 <rsleevi> ... not sure if the China location would be suitably proximate
20:39:42 <hhalpin> TPAC 2013 is in china
20:40:05 <rsleevi> virginie: For me, because we only have a few members in the WG in Korea, but we have many in the US, it may make more sense to have this meeting in the US
20:40:34 <hhalpin> and in the fall we could arrange a visit to Korea as well after or before TPAC
20:40:38 <rsleevi> virginie: Very likely that the next meeting is in the US
20:41:16 <rsleevi> mountie: Want to have the next meeting in Korea in order to show why there is interest in this API
20:42:42 <virginie> ack hhalpin
20:42:53 <rsleevi> hhalpin: Mentioning of China was to explore the possibility to have meeting in Korea before/after.
20:43:09 <rsleevi> ... We may still have time for flexibility in the API at that time
20:43:31 <rsleevi> ... we may be better served by waiting for the spec to be more mature
20:43:41 <hhalpin> but would that be too late to influence stuff in Korea?
20:44:50 <virginie> q+
20:45:01 <virginie> ack rsleevi
20:45:17 <hhalpin> That's why I'm thinking the overlap will be clearer by the fall in 2013
20:45:38 <rsleevi> rsleevi: As an implementor, while we value the problem, it's not a high point for us or our users. We've studied this problem for quite a bit of time, and with quite a bit of depth, and think this problem is much larger
20:45:56 <rsleevi> ... as an editor, fully happy to reflect the consensus from the WG, but it's not likely something we'd rush to implement
20:46:23 <rsleevi> ... would recommend this problem be postponed until we've furthered the current work
20:47:14 <rsleevi> hhalpin: If we do it at TPAC, we'll have more contributors available
20:47:29 <rsleevi> virginie: Other possibilities include a "roadshow" to demonstrate the API and how it fits in with the use case
20:47:37 <rsleevi> ... back to the topic of dates
20:47:45 <rsleevi> q+
20:47:57 <virginie> ack virginie
20:49:13 <hhalpin> There is a distinct lack of proposals (except from Netflix!!)
20:49:25 <rsleevi> rsleevi: Main concern is making we have enough issues and agenda for discussion
20:49:30 <mountie> q+
20:49:39 <rsleevi> q-
20:49:55 <rsleevi> virginie: We have lots of specs at the moment - we have use cases, key discovery, and (hopefully soon) high level API
20:50:00 <hhalpin> I'd say we could also aim for April 2nd.
20:50:05 <hhalpin> That would give us more time.
20:50:28 <hhalpin> That is in the Doodle.
20:50:31 <rsleevi> ... goal is to make sure we have people willing to travel and discuss the issues for these related specs
20:51:36 <rsleevi> mountie: My expectation of the next F2F meeting was that we could begin setting priorities for the list of secondary features
20:51:58 <rsleevi> ... our preferences are for secondary features. We should set priorities for secondary features
20:52:04 <hhalpin> I agree with Mountie re prioritizing secondary features
20:52:57 <rsleevi> virginie: Some of the secondary features may have dependencies on the primary dependency
20:53:15 <rsleevi> ... we really have to balance on making sure we don't focus on our secondary features before focusing on our primary features
20:53:29 <rbarnes> i am willing to travel, especially in US
20:53:35 <ddahl> +1
20:53:35 <virginie> +1
20:53:37 <hhalpin> +1
20:53:39 <asad> +1
20:53:40 <markw> +1
20:53:42 <karen> +1 in US
20:53:50 <rsleevi> virginie: Question is who is willing and has the budget to travel
20:53:57 <rsleevi> virginie: Reminder: Another F2F possibly in the summer
20:53:58 <wseltzer> +1
20:55:39 <rsleevi> virginie: Within the next two weeks, proposals for WHERE and WHEN the next F2F will be. As mentioned, will be US based
20:55:52 <rsleevi> virginie: Possibility of Boston or DC as one options
20:56:06 <rsleevi> ddahl: Possibility of Mountain View/Vancouver/Toronto
20:56:46 <rsleevi> Zakim, take up agendum 3
20:56:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "AOB" taken up [from virginie]
20:57:07 <zooko> Thanks folks!
20:57:17 <rsleevi> q+
20:57:26 <hhalpin> zooko - I'll look into the disposition of comments point I brought up.
20:57:29 <virginie> ack mountie
20:57:31 <wseltzer> ack mountie
20:57:32 <mountie> q-
20:57:34 <wseltzer> ack rsleevi
20:57:46 <zooko> I'm going to the Stanford Real World Crypto workshop!
20:57:55 <hhalpin> If folks can go and present the API at that workshop, that would be great!!
20:57:56 <zooko> Can we have a WebCrypto dinner/lunch/beer ?
20:58:27 <zooko> Who is it that *might* be presenting something related to WebCrypto there?
20:58:30 <rsleevi> @hhalpin: No presentation
20:58:41 <rsleevi> @zooko: ben adida. ddahl was supposed to figure out the details ;)
20:59:07 <zooko> I see: https://crypto.stanford.edu/RealWorldCrypto/program.php
20:59:08 <rsleevi> rsleevi: Mentioned the Stanford Real World Crypto Workshop, opportunity to get feedback and discuss with crypto community
20:59:43 <rsleevi> virginie: Next call topic will include getting feedback from more companies and communities
20:59:44 <ddahl> rsleevi: you should just ping ben, he will let you know what is going on
20:59:48 <zooko> Okay! Let's discuss it on this IRC channel after the call?
20:59:48 <hhalpin> Get Terrence to look at it.
20:59:57 <Zakim> -sdurbha
21:00:01 <Zakim> - +1.408.458.aahh
21:00:02 <Zakim> -Zooko
21:00:03 <Zakim> -ddahl
21:00:03 <Zakim> -Wendy
21:00:05 <Zakim> -rbarnes
21:00:05 <Zakim> -Karen
21:00:06 <Zakim> -virginie
21:00:07 <Zakim> -hhalpin
21:00:08 <Zakim> -markw
21:00:09 <Zakim> -asad
21:00:15 <Zakim> -mountie
21:00:29 <rsleevi> Zakim, draft minutes
21:00:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', rsleevi
21:00:47 <Zakim> -Google
21:00:48 <Zakim> SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM has ended
21:00:48 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.720.357.aaaa, +82.22.14.0.aabb, +1.410.290.aacc, +1.512.257.aadd, +1.408.540.aaee, markw, rbarnes, asad, +1.512.257.aaff, +1.512.257.aagg, virginie, ddahl,
21:00:48 <Zakim> ... +1.408.458.aahh, Wendy, hhalpin, rsleevi, mountie, Zooko, Karen, Mike_Jones, +1.303.661.aaii, sdurbha, +1.303.543.aajj
21:00:51 <wseltzer> rrsagent, make minutes
21:00:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/07-crypto-minutes.html wseltzer
21:01:24 <zooko> Actually... I need to take a break. I'll look for rsleevi et al. on this IRC channel, twitter, email, etc. and talk about when we could meet up.
21:01:32 <zooko> Yes, thanks rsleevi for scribing!
21:01:37 <zooko> I hate that job...
21:01:43 <zooko> Bye for now.
21:23:39 <mountie> mountie has left #crypto
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