14:57:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-ldp-irc ←
14:57:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:57:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
14:57:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
14:57:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:57:53 <trackbot> Date: 28 January 2013
14:58:22 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started ←
14:58:29 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
14:59:02 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P7 is me
Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??P7 is me ←
14:59:02 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it ←
14:59:40 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:00:34 <Ashok> zakim, code?
Ashok Malhotra: zakim, code? ←
15:00:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Ashok
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Ashok ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:00:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
15:00:46 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office ←
15:00:46 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made ←
15:00:47 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:00:51 <antonis> zakim, ??p8 is me
Antonis Loizou: zakim, ??p8 is me ←
15:00:51 <Zakim> +antonis; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +antonis; got it ←
15:00:59 <dret> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
Erik Wilde: zakim, +[IPcaller] is me ←
15:00:59 <Zakim> sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]' ←
15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
15:01:09 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:01:12 <dret> zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me
Erik Wilde: zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]' ←
15:01:17 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:01:19 <sergio> Zakim: [IPcaller.a] is me
15:01:30 <dret> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Erik Wilde: zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:01:30 <Zakim> +dret; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dret; got it ←
15:01:31 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:01:31 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
15:01:33 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
15:01:37 <sergio> Zakim: IPcaller.a is me
15:01:57 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
15:02:15 <Zakim> +roger
Zakim IRC Bot: +roger ←
15:02:18 <JohnArwe> very quiet on the line
John Arwe: very quiet on the line ←
15:02:23 <Zakim> +Steve_Speicher
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steve_Speicher ←
15:02:26 <Zakim> + +44.754.550.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.754.550.aaaa ←
15:02:41 <SteveBattle_> zakim, aaaa is me
Steve Battle: zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:02:41 <Zakim> +SteveBattle_; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveBattle_; got it ←
15:02:46 <SteveS> zakim, Steve_Speicher is me
Steve Speicher: zakim, Steve_Speicher is me ←
15:02:46 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it ←
15:02:54 <dret> very quiet, but it seems to work ok.
Erik Wilde: very quiet, but it seems to work ok. ←
15:02:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:03:05 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
15:03:05 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:03:19 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
15:03:23 <Zakim> -??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P0 ←
15:03:32 <bblfish> hi
Henry Story: hi ←
15:03:39 <Arnaud> zakim, who's here?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's here? ←
15:03:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, [IPcaller.a], EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, [IPcaller.a], EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish ←
15:03:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed, bhyland,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed, bhyland, ←
15:03:42 <Zakim> ... oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves, sandro ←
15:03:57 <sergio> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
Sergio Fernández: Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me ←
15:03:57 <Zakim> +sergio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it ←
15:03:59 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:04:14 <dret> zakim, who's here?
Erik Wilde: zakim, who's here? ←
15:04:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P3 ←
15:04:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed, ←
15:04:17 <Zakim> ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves ←
15:04:31 <Arnaud> zakim, pick a victim
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, pick a victim ←
15:04:31 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Arnaud ←
15:04:40 <SteveS> +1
Steve Speicher: +1 ←
15:04:42 <Arnaud> zakim, pick a victim
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, pick a victim ←
15:04:42 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P3 ←
15:04:44 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
Bart van Leeuwen: +1 ←
15:04:55 <bblfish> who laughed?
Henry Story: who laughed? ←
15:04:59 <bblfish> pick him!!
Henry Story: pick him!! ←
15:05:11 <Zakim> -??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P3 ←
15:05:32 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
15:05:35 <dret> zakim, who's here?
Erik Wilde: zakim, who's here? ←
15:05:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P26 ←
15:05:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed, ←
15:05:39 <Zakim> ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves ←
15:05:50 <Arnaud> zakim, pick a victim
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, pick a victim ←
15:05:51 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P26 ←
15:06:13 <JohnArwe> chair: arnaud
15:06:14 <TallTed> chair: Arnaud
15:07:16 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
15:07:45 <SteveS> looked and didn't see any problem
Steve Speicher: looked and didn't see any problem ←
<dret> Topic: Minutes of January 21
15:07:58 <dret> proposed to accept last week's meeting: no objection
Erik Wilde: proposed to accept last week's meeting: no objection ←
<dret> RESOLVED: minutes of January 21 approved.
RESOLVED: minutes of January 21 approved. ←
15:08:01 <krp> zakim, ??P5 is me
Kevin Page: zakim, ??P5 is me ←
15:08:02 <Zakim> +krp; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it ←
<dret> Topic: Actions and Issues
<dret> subtopic: Actions
15:08:21 <bblfish> You can now close my action from last week
Henry Story: You can now close my action from last week ←
15:08:26 <dret> please everybody indicate f2f attendance until next mondat
Erik Wilde: please everybody indicate f2f attendance until next mondat ←
15:08:40 <nmihindu> zakim, ??P26 is me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: zakim, ??P26 is me ←
15:08:40 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it ←
15:09:03 <dret> close ACTION-28
Erik Wilde: close ACTION-28 ←
15:09:03 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-28 Access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-28 Access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section. ←
15:09:05 <bblfish> action-28?
15:09:05 <trackbot> ACTION-28 -- Henry Story to access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section -- due 2012-11-21 -- CLOSED
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-28 -- Henry Story to access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section -- due 2012-11-21 -- CLOSED ←
15:09:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/28
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/28 ←
15:09:34 <sergio> action-36?
Sergio Fernández: ACTION-36? ←
15:09:34 <trackbot> ACTION-36 -- John Arwe to [EDITOR] Make changes for ISSUE-42 (moving common props to deployment guide) -- due 2013-01-14 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-36 -- John Arwe to [EDITOR] Make changes for ISSUE-42 (moving common props to deployment guide) -- due 2013-01-14 -- OPEN ←
15:09:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/36
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/36 ←
15:09:49 <dret> discussing ACTION-36, which is 97% complete
Erik Wilde: discussing ACTION-36, which is 97% complete ←
15:10:06 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
15:10:19 <Zakim> +Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yves ←
15:11:12 <dret> ACTION-36, content has been moved to deployment guide, but some clean-up is required
Erik Wilde: ACTION-36, content has been moved to deployment guide, but some clean-up is required ←
<dret> subtopic: Raised issues
15:12:23 <dret> ISSUE-46 has been raised, rogerm explains the motivation
Erik Wilde: ISSUE-46 has been raised, rogerm explains the motivation ←
15:12:49 <TallTed> issue-46?
15:12:49 <trackbot> ISSUE-46 -- services and LDP -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-46 -- services and LDP -- raised ←
15:12:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/46
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/46 ←
15:13:49 <dret> rogerm explains how ISSUE-46 could be closed, which is not quite clear from the issue itself
Erik Wilde: rogerm explains how ISSUE-46 could be closed, which is not quite clear from the issue itself ←
15:14:15 <dret> Arnaud claims that it's not quite clear what the issue is asking us to do?
Erik Wilde: Arnaud claims that it's not quite clear what the issue is asking us to do? ←
15:15:08 <bblfish> q?
Henry Story: q? ←
15:15:09 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
15:15:18 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:15:28 <SteveBattle_> q+
Steve Battle: q+ ←
15:15:41 <JohnArwe> q+
15:16:02 <dret> "category 1" as described by Arnaud refers to interacting with collections and entries, not about a generic RDF database model of "just managing triples"
Erik Wilde: "category 1" as described by Arnaud refers to interacting with collections and entries, not about a generic RDF database model of "just managing triples" ←
15:16:11 <Arnaud> ack steveb
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steveb ←
15:16:38 <dret> SteveBattle says that both scenarios are covered
Erik Wilde: SteveBattle says that both scenarios are covered ←
15:16:40 <Arnaud> ack john
Arnaud Le Hors: ack john ←
15:17:32 <bblfish> Issue-37?
15:17:32 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open ←
15:17:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37 ←
15:17:45 <dret> JohnArwe says we have different audiences, one starting from the bottom, the other starting top-down, and ISSUE-46 is very much related to ISSUE-37
Erik Wilde: JohnArwe says we have different audiences, one starting from the bottom, the other starting top-down, and ISSUE-46 is very much related to ISSUE-37 ←
15:18:22 <dret> we as a WG are not delivering solutions, we are delivering building blocks for solutions
Erik Wilde: we as a WG are not delivering solutions, we are delivering building blocks for solutions ←
15:18:26 <Zakim> +??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30 ←
15:18:48 <svillata> zakim, P30 is me
Serena Villata: zakim, P30 is me ←
15:18:48 <Zakim> sorry, svillata, I do not recognize a party named 'P30'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, svillata, I do not recognize a party named 'P30' ←
15:18:58 <svillata> zakim, ??P30 is me
Serena Villata: zakim, ??P30 is me ←
15:18:58 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +svillata; got it ←
15:20:00 <bblfish> bblfish: said that there is a relation to this problem and the use cases document, it is an interesting issue, but not sure if it should be opened. There is definitetly something that should be done as a group to try to solve this. My guess is that one can do this very declaratively, and that there is some new things to do.
Henry Story: said that there is a relation to this problem and the use cases document, it is an interesting issue, but not sure if it should be opened. There is definitetly something that should be done as a group to try to solve this. My guess is that one can do this very declaratively, and that there is some new things to do. [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ] ←
15:21:10 <SteveS> I think it is covered by our use case document already
Steve Speicher: I think it is covered by our use case document already ←
15:22:38 <dret> it seems to very unclear what category 1 and 2 even mean, different people have different opinions on what they mean
Erik Wilde: it seems to very unclear what category 1 and 2 even mean, different people have different opinions on what they mean ←
15:23:14 <bblfish> makes sense
Henry Story: makes sense ←
15:24:09 <SteveBattle_> It would always be possible to make this more explicit in the next iteration of UC&R - we did invite comments four this iteration but we had none :)
Steve Battle: It would always be possible to make this more explicit in the next iteration of UC&R - we did invite comments four this iteration but we had none :) ←
15:24:16 <dret> rogerm is asked by Arnaud to refer to UCR and see whether ISSUE-46 can be reframed in terms of missing UCR issues; ISSUE-46 remains raised for now
Erik Wilde: rogerm is asked by Arnaud to refer to UCR and see whether ISSUE-46 can be reframed in terms of missing UCR issues; ISSUE-46 remains raised for now ←
15:25:06 <dret> rogerm claims that category 2 will be addressed by at least some of the WG members
Erik Wilde: rogerm claims that category 2 will be addressed by at least some of the WG members ←
<dret>topic: UC&R
15:25:36 <dret> Arnaud asks what's the current status of UCR?
Erik Wilde: Arnaud asks what's the current status of UCR? ←
<dret>... request wasn't actually known from the webmaster
Erik Wilde: ... request wasn't actually known from the webmaster ←
<dret>Yves working on getting it published, hopefully by Thursday
Erik Wilde: Yves working on getting it published, hopefully by Thursday ←
15:26:47 <dret> we need to find out what went wrong with the publication process so that we can avoid it doing it again
Erik Wilde: we need to find out what went wrong with the publication process so that we can avoid it doing it again ←
15:27:35 <dret> email address in the WD needs to be changed to be the public email address (not the -wg only)
Erik Wilde: email address in the WD needs to be changed to be the public email address (not the -wg only) ←
<dret>topic: LDP spec
15:28:58 <dret> Arnaud: our charter asks us to publish a second WD this month (january). should we do this or wait for more substantial changes?
Arnaud Le Hors: our charter asks us to publish a second WD this month (january). should we do this or wait for more substantial changes? [ Scribe Assist by Erik Wilde ] ←
15:29:28 <dret> SteveS would prefer delay of about a month, so that changes related to ISSUE-34 and ISSUE-37 can be included
Erik Wilde: SteveS would prefer delay of about a month, so that changes related to ISSUE-34 and ISSUE-37 can be included ←
15:30:15 <dret> JohnArwe asks about exclusion period (somebody maybe should check); Yves isn't sure that something has been announced yet
Erik Wilde: JohnArwe asks about exclusion period (somebody maybe should check); Yves isn't sure that something has been announced yet ←
15:30:57 <bblfish> Should we not have the relative URL changes?
Henry Story: Should we not have the relative URL changes? ←
15:31:01 <dret> maybe putting out a WD right before or after the f2f2 would be hit by a publishing moratorium
Erik Wilde: maybe putting out a WD right before or after the f2f2 would be hit by a publishing moratorium ←
15:31:09 <Yves> next publication moratorium is 7-17 June 2013
Yves Lafon: next publication moratorium is 7-17 June 2013 ←
<dret>topic: Open Issues
15:32:01 <bblfish> Issue-37
15:32:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open ←
15:32:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37 ←
15:32:18 <dret> ISSUE-37 was an attempt to clearly write down the assumptions that people have about the (often implicit) model of LDP
Erik Wilde: ISSUE-37 was an attempt to clearly write down the assumptions that people have about the (often implicit) model of LDP ←
15:32:31 <bblfish> q?
Henry Story: q? ←
15:32:33 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
15:33:07 <dret> so far there is little convergence, the wiki page is mostly the AtomPub model, the ISSUE-37 approach so far does not seem to be working very well
Erik Wilde: so far there is little convergence, the wiki page is mostly the AtomPub model, the ISSUE-37 approach so far does not seem to be working very well ←
15:33:41 <Ashok> +
Ashok Malhotra: + ←
15:33:47 <Ashok> q+
Ashok Malhotra: q+ ←
15:34:00 <dret> if we cannot conclude ISSUE-37 to actually come to (some) description of the model, we probably should focus more on the individual issues, than on the very general ISSUE-37 issue
Erik Wilde: if we cannot conclude ISSUE-37 to actually come to (some) description of the model, we probably should focus more on the individual issues, than on the very general ISSUE-37 issue ←
15:35:14 <bblfish> Issue-34?
15:35:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- open ←
15:35:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34 ←
15:35:31 <dret> Arnaud proposes to give us a week for making progress on ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-34, but we need to keep an eye on the timeline and solving specific issues around LDP
Erik Wilde: Arnaud proposes to give us a week for making progress on ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-34, but we need to keep an eye on the timeline and solving specific issues around LDP ←
15:36:05 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:36:07 <svillata> q?
Serena Villata: q? ←
15:36:33 <dret> bblfish is impossible to understand...
Erik Wilde: bblfish is impossible to understand... ←
15:36:33 <TallTed> bblfish, please move closer to wifi base... or type
Ted Thibodeau: bblfish, please move closer to wifi base... or type ←
15:36:35 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
15:36:39 <JohnArwe> "in the large hall" sound
John Arwe: "in the large hall" sound ←
15:36:49 <Arnaud> ack ashok
Arnaud Le Hors: ack ashok ←
15:37:01 <bblfish> willl take time to reconnect
Henry Story: willl take time to reconnect ←
15:37:02 <bblfish> just contine
Henry Story: just contine ←
15:37:06 <bblfish> continue
Henry Story: continue ←
15:37:17 <TallTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
15:37:20 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:37:20 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
15:37:33 <dret> Ashok says we'll keep coming back to ISSUE-37 questions, even if we start focusing on more specific issues
Erik Wilde: Ashok says we'll keep coming back to ISSUE-37 questions, even if we start focusing on more specific issues ←
15:37:48 <ericP> q?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q? ←
15:38:03 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
15:38:06 <dret> Ashok gives example of "container with container" issue, which is a question of the overall model
Erik Wilde: Ashok gives example of "container with container" issue, which is a question of the overall model ←
15:38:11 <bblfish> q?
Henry Story: q? ←
15:38:28 <Zakim> +??P31
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31 ←
15:38:35 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
15:38:39 <krp> zakim, ??P31 is me
Kevin Page: zakim, ??P31 is me ←
15:38:39 <Zakim> +krp; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it ←
15:38:52 <dret> Arnaud says defining the model "piecemeal" may not be ideal, but maybe more manageable
Erik Wilde: Arnaud says defining the model "piecemeal" may not be ideal, but maybe more manageable ←
15:39:13 <Arnaud> ack tallted
Arnaud Le Hors: ack tallted ←
15:39:23 <dret> Ashok says we might just want to discuss the open questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page
Erik Wilde: Ashok says we might just want to discuss the open questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page ←
15:40:29 <dret> TallTed says we should focus on the important issues, but they may be too big to just close them. just discussing them might be not very productive.
Erik Wilde: TallTed says we should focus on the important issues, but they may be too big to just close them. just discussing them might be not very productive. ←
15:41:20 <dret> what makes LDP different from what is out there?
Erik Wilde: what makes LDP different from what is out there? ←
15:41:22 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:42:06 <dret> bblfish says that Atom rejected a model
Erik Wilde: bblfish says that Atom rejected a model ←
15:42:13 <dret> q+
Erik Wilde: q+ ←
15:42:23 <Arnaud> ack dret
Arnaud Le Hors: ack dret ←
15:42:26 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:42:27 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
15:42:50 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
15:43:13 <Zakim> -antonis
Zakim IRC Bot: -antonis ←
15:43:34 <TallTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
15:43:45 <Zakim> TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (29%), bblfish (38%)
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (29%), bblfish (38%) ←
15:43:59 <bblfish> I muted myself
Henry Story: I muted myself ←
15:44:13 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:44:19 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:44:28 <antonis> zakim, ??p8 is me
Antonis Loizou: zakim, ??p8 is me ←
15:44:28 <Zakim> +antonis; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +antonis; got it ←
15:44:35 <dret> -q
Erik Wilde: -q ←
15:44:41 <bblfish> I am thinking I was still found the work on the ontology last week was very useful. For example I now agree with Arnaud that LDPC are sublcass LDPR
Henry Story: I am thinking I was still found the work on the ontology last week was very useful. For example I now agree with Arnaud that LDPC are sublcass LDPR ←
15:44:42 <TallTed> bblfish - sometimes Zakim's mute is necessary (e.g., line noise isn't cleared by muting handset)
Ted Thibodeau: bblfish - sometimes Zakim's mute is necessary (e.g., line noise isn't cleared by muting handset) ←
15:45:28 <dret> bblfish says that defining ontologies are very useful exercises when it comes to understanding the issues
Erik Wilde: bblfish says that defining ontologies are very useful exercises when it comes to understanding the issues ←
15:45:48 <dret> zakim, who is making noise?
Erik Wilde: zakim, who is making noise? ←
15:45:59 <Zakim> dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (29%), dret (5%), bblfish (53%)
Zakim IRC Bot: dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (29%), dret (5%), bblfish (53%) ←
15:46:17 <dret> bblfish sounds like being in a giant hall with revolving doors
Erik Wilde: bblfish sounds like being in a giant hall with revolving doors ←
15:46:22 <TallTed> why are "defining the LDP spec" and "defining an ontology for LDP" orthogonal?
Ted Thibodeau: why are "defining the LDP spec" and "defining an ontology for LDP" orthogonal? ←
15:46:27 <bblfish> It's linked data arnaud
Henry Story: It's linked data arnaud ←
15:46:32 <TallTed> they seem unbreakably interlinked
Ted Thibodeau: they seem unbreakably interlinked ←
15:46:36 <bblfish> you have to publsih the ldp:Container
Henry Story: you have to publsih the ldp:Container ←
15:46:37 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
15:46:42 <bblfish> and ldp:Resource
Henry Story: and ldp:Resource ←
15:46:44 <Arnaud> ack steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves ←
15:47:31 <bblfish> No just define the datamodel
Henry Story: No just define the datamodel ←
15:47:31 <dret> Yves says there should be a definition for what we can exchange in the protocol.
Erik Wilde: SteveS says there should be a definition for what we can exchange in the protocol. ←
15:47:54 <bblfish> but the problem is that when you discuss the system, you need to work out what it is that you are speaking about
Henry Story: but the problem is that when you discuss the system, you need to work out what it is that you are speaking about ←
15:47:55 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
15:48:13 <Arnaud> s/Yves/SteveS/
15:49:15 <Arnaud> ack steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves ←
15:49:50 <dret> SteveS says that the ISSUE-34 proposal separates the interaction model from the (deeper) data model
Erik Wilde: SteveS says that the ISSUE-34 proposal separates the interaction model from the (deeper) data model ←
15:50:05 <bblfish> Issue-37?
15:50:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open ←
15:50:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37 ←
15:50:53 <dret> ISSUE-37 has a wiki page, which seems to be largely unused (apart from Ashok's still open questions, and SteveS's additions to the page)
Erik Wilde: ISSUE-37 has a wiki page, which seems to be largely unused (apart from Ashok's still open questions, and SteveS's additions to the page) ←
15:51:14 <dret> Ashok proposes to bring up other questions for discussions
Erik Wilde: Ashok proposes to bring up other questions for discussions ←
15:51:15 <JohnArwe> Henry, you said that your understanding of some things has changed based on the discussion, e.g. on the sub-classing. Have you shared those new understandings on the list? I confess I'm not caught up on the generous helping of emails yet.
John Arwe: Henry, you said that your understanding of some things has changed based on the discussion, e.g. on the sub-classing. Have you shared those new understandings on the list? I confess I'm not caught up on the generous helping of emails yet. ←
15:52:52 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
15:53:19 <ericP> q+ to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission ←
15:53:50 <bblfish> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37
Henry Story: ISSUE-37">http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37 ←
15:53:51 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
15:54:08 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:54:10 <dret> bblfish maybe unmute?
Erik Wilde: bblfish maybe unmute? ←
15:54:25 <dret> bblfish you're really hard to understand...
Erik Wilde: bblfish you're really hard to understand... ←
15:54:28 <TallTed> totally breaking up bblfish
Ted Thibodeau: totally breaking up bblfish ←
15:54:41 <bblfish> ok, next week
Henry Story: ok, next week ←
15:54:52 <Arnaud> ack ericp
Arnaud Le Hors: ack ericp ←
15:54:52 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission ←
15:55:41 <bblfish> JohnArwe: I for example started understanding why it makes sense that an LDPC is a sublcass of an LDPR
John Arwe: I for example started understanding why it makes sense that an LDPC is a sublcass of an LDPR [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ] ←
15:55:50 <dret> ericP proposes to start from tests, starting from starting state, interactions, and a resulting state
Erik Wilde: ericP proposes to start from tests, starting from starting state, interactions, and a resulting state ←
15:56:25 <bblfish> JohnArwe: also one can come up with a good argument on what POSTs as appends on LDPRs that are not LDPCs
John Arwe: also one can come up with a good argument on what POSTs as appends on LDPRs that are not LDPCs [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ] ←
15:56:59 <bblfish> agree, test cases are good
Henry Story: agree, test cases are good ←
15:57:03 <JohnArwe> thx Henry.
15:57:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
Bart van Leeuwen: +1 ←
15:57:12 <dret> Arnaud proposes that focusing on tests might be a practical way to make progress
Erik Wilde: Arnaud proposes that focusing on tests might be a practical way to make progress ←
15:57:14 <Arnaud> ack steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves ←
15:57:22 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
15:57:38 <JohnArwe> I'll note that this "initial state, message, resulting state" approach is exactly what I used in the newest issue-34 proposal.
John Arwe: I'll note that this "initial state, message, resulting state" approach is exactly what I used in the newest ISSUE-34 proposal. ←
15:58:30 <dret> SteveS ISSUE-37 may best be addressed by summarizing the current model as spec text, and then work on specific issues
Erik Wilde: SteveS ISSUE-37 may best be addressed by summarizing the current model as spec text, and then work on specific issues ←
15:58:38 <JohnArwe> ...it does not use this very compact notation, rather it shows the http messages
John Arwe: ...it does not use this very compact notation, rather it shows the http messages ←
15:59:08 <ericP> JohnArwe, maybe we can assist that issue-34 proposal with concrete examples
Eric Prud'hommeaux: JohnArwe, maybe we can assist that ISSUE-34 proposal with concrete examples ←
15:59:13 <dret> Arnaud asks Ashok to check his questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page and see whether any of the questions are not open as separate issues; if so, please raise them
Erik Wilde: Arnaud asks Ashok to check his questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page and see whether any of the questions are not open as separate issues; if so, please raise them ←
15:59:18 <ericP> might help folks see how they'd contribute
Eric Prud'hommeaux: might help folks see how they'd contribute ←
15:59:40 <dret> Arnaud proposes to put ISSUE-37 aside and focus on smaller issues
Erik Wilde: Arnaud proposes to put ISSUE-37 aside and focus on smaller issues ←
16:00:55 <dret> JohnArwe talks about the ISSUE-34 wiki page and how it's describing the issue
Erik Wilde: JohnArwe talks about the ISSUE-34 wiki page and how it's describing the issue ←
16:01:36 <JohnArwe> this newest proposal is at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Issue-34:_Back_to_Basics
John Arwe: this newest proposal is at ISSUE-34:_Back_to_Basics">http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-34:_Back_to_Basics ←
16:02:00 <JohnArwe> which hangs off the aggregator page for all 34 proposals http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-34
John Arwe: which hangs off the aggregator page for all 34 proposals ISSUE-34">http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-34 ←
16:02:17 <dret> sorry everybody, i must leave for my next call; could somebody continue scribing and then generate the minutes? thanks, bye!
Erik Wilde: sorry everybody, i must leave for my next call; could somebody continue scribing and then generate the minutes? thanks, bye! ←
16:02:29 <Zakim> -dret
Zakim IRC Bot: -dret ←
16:02:42 <ericP> Arnaud: next week will choose an approach
Arnaud Le Hors: next week will choose an approach [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
16:02:46 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
16:02:51 <Zakim> -sergio
Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio ←
16:02:58 <Zakim> -SteveS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS ←
16:02:59 <SteveBattle_> bye
Steve Battle: bye ←
16:03:03 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: please review proposals on issue-34 for next week, we will attempt to choose one on next week's call
Arnaud Le Hors: please review proposals on ISSUE-34 for next week, we will attempt to choose one on next week's call [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ] ←
16:03:05 <sergio> I have to leave, bye
Sergio Fernández: I have to leave, bye ←
16:03:05 <Zakim> -antonis
Zakim IRC Bot: -antonis ←
16:03:07 <Zakim> -Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yves ←
16:03:08 <Zakim> -SteveBattle_
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveBattle_ ←
16:03:09 <Zakim> -svillata
Zakim IRC Bot: -svillata ←
16:03:33 <Zakim> -??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9 ←
16:03:56 <rogerm> I'm still here as well .......
Roger Menday: I'm still here as well ....... ←
16:05:06 <JohnArwe> roger did you hear the discussion about deciding next week on 34? so your pages would need to be done.
John Arwe: roger did you hear the discussion about deciding next week on 34? so your pages would need to be done. ←
16:06:03 <rogerm> i did !!! :)
Roger Menday: i did !!! :) ←
16:06:07 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:07:04 <dret> Arnaud, can you generate the minutes? or is there some incantation i need to type?
Erik Wilde: Arnaud, can you generate the minutes? or is there some incantation i need to type? ←
16:08:18 <rogerm> John, looking at your issue 34 proposal: I was kind of expecting some by-reference semantics, particularly inside the "Creating a member resource" section. This is needed for the "add an arc" requirement of the original 34, in my opinion. Is there an error here, or an error in my understanding ?
Roger Menday: John, looking at your ISSUE-34 proposal: I was kind of expecting some by-reference semantics, particularly inside the "Creating a member resource" section. This is needed for the "add an arc" requirement of the original 34, in my opinion. Is there an error here, or an error in my understanding ? ←
16:08:25 <JohnArwe> he should be able to do minutes dret; I did not have to do anything after last week's call
John Arwe: he should be able to do minutes dret; I did not have to do anything after last week's call ←
16:08:47 <Arnaud> dret: you don't need to do anything
Erik Wilde: you don't need to do anything [ Scribe Assist by Arnaud Le Hors ] ←
16:09:11 <Arnaud> there is a procedure to turn the irc log into the actual minutes but I can take care of it
Arnaud Le Hors: there is a procedure to turn the irc log into the actual minutes but I can take care of it ←
16:09:48 <dret> ok, thanks everybody, then!
Erik Wilde: ok, thanks everybody, then! ←
16:12:14 <JohnArwe> Let's say Roger that crafting it raised the question in my mind of how it should work, but I see that as separable-from 34 and there fore "should be separated". I do have some immature ideas but literally no one has heard them and until I write them down myself I consider them the rabid ravings of a sleep-deprived Monty Python fan.
John Arwe: Let's say Roger that crafting it raised the question in my mind of how it should work, but I see that as separable-from 34 and there fore "should be separated". I do have some immature ideas but literally no one has heard them and until I write them down myself I consider them the rabid ravings of a sleep-deprived Monty Python fan. ←
16:12:47 <JohnArwe> ...34 is tangled enough that I was trying to avoid scope creep by the end.
John Arwe: ...34 is tangled enough that I was trying to avoid scope creep by the end. ←
16:14:03 <JohnArwe> ...if the idea-kernel in my head pans out, it's remarkably free/easy and completely consistent with what's here, as strange as that sounds (the strangeness being Yet Another Reason I treat it as ravings)
John Arwe: ...if the idea-kernel in my head pans out, it's remarkably free/easy and completely consistent with what's here, as strange as that sounds (the strangeness being Yet Another Reason I treat it as ravings) ←
16:15:52 <JohnArwe> ...I *do* think we need to be able to "add" "listings" of "existing resources" to a "collection", ala bug tracker. Seems to me that even the most basic use cases "of interest" require that.
John Arwe: ...I *do* think we need to be able to "add" "listings" of "existing resources" to a "collection", ala bug tracker. Seems to me that even the most basic use cases "of interest" require that. ←
16:16:21 <rogerm> That's the name of issue-34 though ... :) i.e. "adding and removing arcs" ...
Roger Menday: That's the name of ISSUE-34 though ... :) i.e. "adding and removing arcs" ... ←
16:17:34 <rogerm> yes. I agree. And furthermore, *ALL* predicates coming out of a resource could be used in that ... (?)
Roger Menday: yes. I agree. And furthermore, *ALL* predicates coming out of a resource could be used in that ... (?) ←
16:17:41 <JohnArwe> ...34 is aggregation, as people have been discussing it. For some values of those words, people could reasonably argue that containers do them.
John Arwe: ...34 is aggregation, as people have been discussing it. For some values of those words, people could reasonably argue that containers do them. ←
16:18:32 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
Zakim IRC Bot: -BartvanLeeuwen ←
16:20:32 <rogerm> issue-34 is "add an arc" ..... guess we should check with Richard
Roger Menday: ISSUE-34 is "add an arc" ..... guess we should check with Richard ←
16:21:59 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:22:01 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:22:05 <Zakim> -nmihindu
Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu ←
16:22:06 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
16:22:06 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2013-01-28 19:34:01 UTC by 'alehors', comments: None