16:54:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
16:54:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/19-audio-irc
16:54:37 <olivier> trackbot, start meeting
16:54:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:54:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
16:54:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
16:54:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
16:54:42 <trackbot> Date: 19 December 2012
16:54:48 <olivier> Chair: olivier
16:55:04 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012OctDec/0768.html
16:55:12 <olivier> Agenda+ WG co-chair
16:55:19 <olivier> zakim, bye
16:55:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #audio
16:55:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #audio
16:55:28 <olivier> zakim, this will be audio
16:55:28 <Zakim> ok, olivier; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
16:55:33 <olivier> Agenda+ WG co-chair
16:55:46 <olivier> Agenda+ Teleconference time change, next teleconference
16:56:06 <olivier> Agenda+ Face-to-face date: 26-27 March proposed date
16:56:27 <olivier> Agenda+ Testing - see http://w3c.github.com/testing-how-to/#(1)
16:58:52 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:59:00 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aaaa
16:59:17 <ChrisWilson> ChrisWilson has joined #audio
16:59:30 <ChrisWilson> zakim, this is audio
16:59:30 <Zakim> ChrisWilson, this was already RWC_Audio()12:00PM
16:59:31 <Zakim> ok, ChrisWilson; that matches RWC_Audio()12:00PM
16:59:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:59:36 <ChrisWilson> zakim, who is here?
16:59:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.650.214.aaaa, [IPcaller]
16:59:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisWilson, Zakim, RRSAgent, olivier, plh, tmichel, colinbdclark, rtoyg, heath, shepazu, trackbot, chrislowis, paul___irish, mdjp, ack
16:59:41 <olivier> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
16:59:41 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
16:59:45 <ChrisWilson> zakim, aaaa is me
16:59:45 <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
16:59:50 <chris> chris has joined #audio
16:59:52 <olivier> zakim, olivier has chrislowis
16:59:53 <Zakim> +chrislowis; got it
17:00:54 <Zakim> +Plh
17:01:30 <Zakim> +chris.a
17:01:40 <Zakim> +gmandyam
17:02:03 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #audio
17:02:22 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #audio
17:02:33 <olivier> zakim, who is here?
17:02:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisWilson, olivier, Plh, chris.a, gmandyam
17:02:34 <Zakim> olivier has chrislowis
17:02:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see tmichel, gmandyam, chris, ChrisWilson, Zakim, RRSAgent, olivier, plh, colinbdclark, rtoyg, heath, shepazu, trackbot, chrislowis, paul___irish, mdjp, ack
17:02:48 <olivier> zakim, chris.a is ChrisRogers
17:02:48 <Zakim> +ChrisRogers; got it
17:03:23 <Zakim> +??P37
17:03:40 <tmichel> zakim, ??P37 is me
17:03:40 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
17:04:20 <chrislowis> zakim, chrislowis is scribe
17:04:20 <Zakim> sorry, chrislowis, I do not recognize a party named 'chrislowis'
17:04:25 <olivier> Scribe: chrislowis
17:05:31 <olivier> Agenda?
17:05:56 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 3
17:05:56 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Face-to-face date: 26-27 March proposed date" taken up [from olivier]
17:06:03 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
17:06:46 <chrislowis> Zakim, pick a chris
17:06:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick a chris', chrislowis
17:07:23 <chrislowis> olivier: Seems like the best dates are 27-28th March.
17:07:31 <chrislowis> olivier: we are planning to hold the meeting in SF.
17:07:52 <chrislowis> s/27-28/26-27
17:08:15 <chrislowis> olivier: I'm talking to jer and chris about hosting at apple or google respectively.
17:08:50 <chrislowis> olivier: I'm hearing no objections so pencil in 26-27th March 2012 as the date for our next face-to-face.
17:08:54 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 1
17:08:54 <Zakim> agendum 1. "WG co-chair" taken up [from olivier]
17:08:57 <ChrisWilson> Is this in San Francisco, or in Mountain View area, or undecided?
17:09:17 <chrislowis> ChrisWilson: undecided so far.
17:10:14 <tmichel> I can't hear Olivier ...
17:10:17 <olivier> zakim, who is making noise?
17:10:28 <Zakim> olivier, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: olivier (9%), tmichel (57%)
17:10:40 <tmichel> zakim, who is making noise?
17:10:51 <Zakim> tmichel, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: olivier (55%)
17:11:12 <chrislowis> olivier: I'd like to announce that Chris Lowis is to take on the co-chair role.
17:12:11 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 2
17:12:11 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Teleconference time change, next teleconference" taken up [from olivier]
17:12:25 <chrislowis> chrislowis: is pleased to take up the co-chair role.
17:13:11 <chrislowis> olivier: we're going to move the call from this time on Wednesdays to this time on Thursdays, every two weeks.
17:13:29 <chrislowis> olivier: quick show of hands for either 10th or 17th for the next call.
17:13:56 <chrislowis> chris: I may be taking vacation around that time. It could be one or the other possibly both.
17:14:11 <chrislowis> ChrisWilson: slight preference for the 10th.
17:14:25 <chrislowis> olivier: in that case we'll go for the 10th.
17:14:45 <chrislowis> RESOLUTION: 10th January for the next teleconference.
17:14:51 <olivier> zakim, close this agendum
17:14:51 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:14:52 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:14:52 <Zakim> 1. WG co-chair [from olivier]
17:14:58 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 4
17:14:58 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Testing - see http://w3c.github.com/testing-how-to/#(1)" taken up [from olivier]
17:15:13 <olivier> http://w3c.github.com/testing-how-to/#(1)%22
17:15:52 <chrislowis> The URL of the presentation plh is about to give is above.
17:16:48 <chrislowis> I won't be scribing the presentation.
17:18:38 <olivier> please feel free to ask questions - use q+ if you want to be added to the queue
17:20:36 <olivier> q+ to ask if there is any tool extracting MUSTs from prose
17:21:27 <chrislowis> olivier: has anybody built a tool to extract MUST statements from prose, or do we do that by hand?
17:21:33 <gmandyam> +q
17:22:00 <chrislowis> plh: there has been some tools but what we've seen that it's not to bad to go through the spec and extract them.
17:22:50 <chrislowis> olivier: when we've talked about testing in the past, not all the algorithms that are specified in our spec are entirely described as they tend to be "well known" from the signal processing literature.
17:23:04 <olivier> ack me
17:23:04 <Zakim> olivier, you wanted to ask if there is any tool extracting MUSTs from prose
17:25:02 <chrislowis> plh: some test suites are testing specifications to help get the spec approved, but are not so useful for product testing. Product testing is a level above that.
17:25:24 <chrislowis> plh: the level above *that* is to write tests to find bugs in implementations.
17:25:33 <chrislowis> plh: and there you need much more detail.
17:26:01 <olivier> ack g
17:26:04 <gmandyam> Giri Mandyam speaking ...
17:26:15 <tmichel> +q
17:26:37 <chrislowis> gmandyam: if a WG has a use cases document, is there no obligation to write tests for those use cases?
17:26:47 <chrislowis> plh: no, there is no obligation.
17:27:11 <chrislowis> gmandyam: so the MUSTs in the normative specification are the only things that matter, in the sense they supercede the use cases?
17:27:14 <chrislowis> plh: that is case.
17:27:39 <gmandyam> ack me
17:27:47 <chrislowis> plh: creating a test suite for CR (?) is the first step. You can put stronger requirements on yourself.
17:27:49 <olivier> ack t
17:28:20 <chrislowis> tmichel: looking at the charter of the audio WG we are chartered to provide a test suite in order to exit CR.
17:28:39 <shepazu> q+
17:28:54 <olivier> ack s
17:30:01 <chrislowis> shepazu: we have recommendations yet we still keep producing tests because interoperability is very important. That is our ultimate goal even if we decide first to produce the minimum set of tests required for CR.
17:30:55 <rossk> rossk has joined #audio
17:31:29 <olivier> testharness.js is at http://w3c-test.org/resources/testharness.js
17:34:03 <chrislowis> olivier: you mention that a file can contain many tests. Is there a best practive?
17:34:12 <chrislowis> s/practive/practice
17:34:51 <chrislowis> plh: it's a good idea to keep related tests in section. Tests need to run on all devices including mobile. So a file with too many tests might run into trouble.
17:57:02 <jussi> jussi has joined #audio
17:57:30 <jussi> Agh, sorry, I forgot we rescheduled back to the old slot
17:58:55 <Zakim> +??P13
17:59:19 <jussi> Zakim, ??P13 is me
17:59:19 <Zakim> +jussi; got it
18:00:34 <chrislowis> chris: Is there any notion of a test which is like a manual test but where a screenshot is taken and a human being compares a test with a screenshot?
18:01:00 <chrislowis> plh: no, Reftests are used for that - you provide a separate file for reference.
18:01:59 <chrislowis> chris: would a possible reference test be used for example for the canvas2d api? Comparing a rendered canvas with a png file for example?
18:02:07 <chrislowis> plh: yes, that would be a reftest.
18:02:08 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #audio
18:02:35 <chrislowis> chris: and that image could be different on IE and Firefox for example?
18:03:19 <chrislowis> plh: at the moment we don't have the concept of an "approximation" in the reftest, it either matches or doesn't.
18:03:54 <chrislowis> shepazu: we reftest any given implementation is self-consistent to the library/platform etc, but may not be different between implementations.
18:04:00 <Zakim> -gmandyam
18:04:21 <chrislowis> chris: good, if that's the case that's what we call <something> tests in webkit.
18:04:45 <chrislowis> s/<something>/reference
18:05:55 <chrislowis> olivier: Just a point of reference Alan has posted the start of a test harness for us using testharness.js
18:05:56 <chrislowis> https://github.com/alankligman/webaudio-conformance/blob/master/sdk/incoming/destination.html
18:06:07 <chrislowis> olivier: thank you to plh for joining us today.
18:06:17 <chrislowis> olivier: we can continue discussion on the mailing list.
18:06:32 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-test-infra/
18:07:05 <chrislowis> shepazu: I want to officially welcome Chris Lowis as co-chair, the email has now been sent and is official.
18:07:24 <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
18:07:26 <Zakim> -Plh
18:07:27 <chrislowis> olivier: great. We'll talk on the 10th, Thursday at the same time.
18:07:27 <Zakim> -olivier
18:07:28 <Zakim> -jussi
18:07:29 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
18:07:35 <olivier> rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/19-audio-minutes.html olivier
18:19:44 <ChrisWilson> ChrisWilson has joined #audio
18:34:55 <Zakim> -ChrisRogers
18:39:55 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in RWC_Audio()12:00PM
18:39:56 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has ended
18:39:56 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.650.214.aaaa, ChrisWilson, chrislowis, Plh, chris, gmandyam, ChrisRogers, tmichel, Doug_Schepers, jussi
19:59:34 <colinbdclark> colinbdclark has joined #audio
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