IRC log of html-a11y on 2012-12-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:58:22 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:58:22 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-a11y-irc
15:58:24 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:24 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:58:26 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:26 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
15:58:27 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:58:27 [trackbot]: Date: 06 December 2012
15:58:36 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
15:58:43 [Zakim]: +??P11
15:58:51 [janina]: zakim, ??P11 is Janina_Sajka
15:58:51 [Zakim]: +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:58:57 [janina]: Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:58:57 [janina]: Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:58:57 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:59:00 [janina]: agenda+ Longdesc Extension Update http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html
15:59:03 [janina]: agenda+ Status of "alt" text in HTML (specification and usage in the
15:59:06 [janina]: document)
15:59:08 [janina]: agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;
15:59:11 [janina]: agenda+ Other Business
15:59:13 [janina]: agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:59:16 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:59:19 [janina]: agenda+ be done
15:59:31 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:01:24 [paulc]: zakim, what is the code?
16:01:24 [Zakim]: the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
16:02:13 [Zakim]: +hober
16:02:20 [Zakim]: +John_Foliot
16:02:21 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
16:02:45 [paulc]: zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:02:46 [Zakim]: +paulc; got it
16:04:09 [janina]: zakim, take up item 1
16:04:09 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
16:05:59 [Zakim]: +Judy
16:07:28 [janina]: zakim, who's here?
16:07:28 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, hober, John_Foliot, [Microsoft], Judy
16:07:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]: richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:07:30 [Zakim]: [Microsoft] has paulc
16:07:30 [Zakim]: On IRC I see Judy, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, janina, davidb, chaals, IanPouncey, darobin, Stevef, trackbot, hober, MichaelC
16:10:26 [chaals]: zakim, code?
16:10:26 [Zakim]: the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chaals
16:12:50 [JF]: JF has joined #html-a11y
16:13:45 [JF]: zakim, who's here?
16:13:45 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, hober, John_Foliot, [Microsoft], Judy
16:13:46 [Zakim]: [Microsoft] has paulc
16:13:46 [Zakim]: On IRC I see JF, richardschwerdtfeger, Judy, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, janina, davidb, chaals, IanPouncey, darobin, Stevef, trackbot, hober, MichaelC
16:13:56 [JF]: scribe: JF
16:14:08 [JF]: zakim, take up item 1
16:14:08 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
16:14:16 [JF]: zakim, close item 1
16:14:16 [Zakim]: agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
16:14:20 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:14:20 [Zakim]: 2. Longdesc Extension Update http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html [from janina]
16:14:20 [richardschwerdtfeger]: Hi judy, I am just lurking on the call. … working on aria cr tests
16:14:23 [JF]: zakim, take up item 2
16:14:23 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Longdesc Extension Update http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html" taken up [from janina]
16:14:31 [Zakim]: +David_MacDonald
16:14:44 [Zakim]: +chaals
16:14:47 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
16:15:16 [janina]: zakim, who's on the phone?
16:15:16 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, hober, John_Foliot, [Microsoft], Judy, David_MacDonald, chaals, Cynthia_Shelly
16:15:19 [Zakim]: [Microsoft] has paulc
16:15:55 [JF]: JS: looking at longdesc spec whi8ch would give us a FPWD
16:16:22 [David]: David has joined #html-a11y
16:16:41 [JF]: after last week, decide to look at all objections with care
16:17:56 [JF]: chaals: sent out an email starting on that - hoping that someone with more time can take up the thread
16:18:29 [JF]: Q+
16:18:57 [JF]: chaals: we have o0ne objection to publishing, and one statement of noting "issues"
16:19:09 [JF]: so we must respond to at least the first one
16:20:04 [JF]: JF volunteers to assist chaals with this effort
16:21:09 [David]: q+
16:21:15 [JF]: ack JF
16:21:15 [chaals]: q+
16:21:21 [JF]: ack David
16:22:20 [JF]: David: I have some concerns still, and want to discuss this before it goes out the door.
16:22:44 [JF]: chaals: agree, and we have a bug filed against that too, so it will be addressed
16:22:50 [JF]: JS: hearing violent agreement
16:22:51 [chaals]: q-
16:23:44 [JF]: JS: does not appear that there are any new objections that have not surfaced previously
16:24:01 [JF]: key is to be succinct in response to the current objection(s)
16:24:42 [JF]: zakim, take up next item
16:24:42 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Status of "alt" text in HTML (specification and usage in the" taken up [from janina]
16:25:26 [JF]: JS: document developed by text sub-team created to assist in this effort
16:26:20 [JF]: goal is to avoid 2 W3C specs that disagree with each other, especially around the use of @alt
16:28:05 [JF]: JS: email from Leonie noting some bugs marked wontfix that have relevance to this topic
16:28:47 [JF]: JB: Leonie asked that the text sub-team address these bugs, hoping to re-convene that group next tuesday
16:29:04 [paulc]: q+
16:29:20 [JF]: have also done an initial review of the set
16:29:47 [JF]: JB: notes that the co-chairs have also invited the text sub-team should be in discussion with the editors over the next while
16:30:20 [JF]: JS: question is, do we need/want to associate the bugs against the problems identified in David's docujment
16:30:34 [janina]: q?
16:30:38 [janina]: ack p
16:30:40 [JF]: believe that this has been requested in the past
16:31:15 [Judy]: s/the text sub-team should be in/the TF to be in/
16:31:19 [JF]: PC: looking for some record or indication of which new bugs have been filed, so that Robin can meet the direction identified by Judy
16:31:37 [JF]: PC: is there a definitive list of which items have been addressed by editorial team?
16:31:53 [JF]: JB: that would be helpful, but unaware of direct information to supply that?
16:32:14 [JF]: JS: seems nobody is directly discussing this with editors
16:32:31 [JF]: chaals: SteveF and I are in discussion with them, and watching their progress
16:32:51 [JF]: JB: can we ask that they provide some form of list/notes of what has been processed to date?
16:32:56 [JF]: chaals: yes
16:33:08 [chaals]: ACTION: chaals to report on what HTML editors are doing wrt alt text issues
16:33:09 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-150 - Report on what HTML editors are doing wrt alt text issues [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2012-12-13].
16:33:24 [JF]: JS: 2 areas of work - alt guidance and then actual examples used in the spec
16:34:40 [Judy]: q+
16:35:10 [JF]: JS: Question: is anyone thinks we need to move forward with alt guidance in section 4.8 and the use of alt in HTML spec in tandem with Steve's document?
16:35:41 [JF]: JB: I think we've already answered that question, and that we should be moving forward independantly
16:36:16 [JF]: JS: just wish to be sure that there is full clarification here - but seems that perhaps not
16:36:49 [janina]: q?
16:36:53 [janina]: ack ju
16:36:57 [chaals]: q+
16:37:05 [JF]: PC: best outcome is that we resolve all problems in the document and it goes away. Perhaps put the question of publishing the alt document be put on hold until the other issues are resolved
16:37:09 [David]: zakim, who's noisy?
16:37:20 [Zakim]: David, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
16:37:35 [janina]: ack ch
16:37:36 [JF]: ack chaals
16:37:49 [chaals]: ack me
16:38:30 [JF]: chaals: support Paul's observation, propose that we request HTML postpone the question whether Steve's document be published one way or other until all the other issues are resolved
16:38:55 [JF]: JS: should we make that a formal resolution?
16:39:01 [JF]: chaals: what I am proposing, yes
16:39:05 [chaals]: proposed resolution: We request HTML to defer the question of publishing Steve's doc while we determine whether we can resolve the issues instead.
16:39:16 [JF]: +1 to proposal
16:39:31 [JF]: chaals: suggest to defer for 4-6 weeks
16:39:39 [JF]: (+1 to that too)
16:39:46 [JF]: JS: any objections on this call?
16:39:59 [JF]: [none heard]
16:40:17 [JF]: JS: will run a CfrC via email for next seven days
16:40:58 [JF]: s/CfrC/CFC/
16:41:09 [chaals]: provisional resolution: We request HTML to defer the question of publishing Steve's doc while we determine whether we can resolve the issues instead
16:41:27 [JF]: zakim, take up next item
16:41:27 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;" taken up [from janina]
16:41:31 [chaals]: s/instead/in the next 6 weeks or so/
16:41:35 [JF]: JS: Leonie is not here
16:41:52 [JF]: JB: looks like they gathered their remaining stuff and tossed over to me
16:41:55 [JF]: {laughter}
16:42:16 [JF]: JB: looks like som have also been sent to some others
16:42:25 [JF]: (JF notes he has some to review as well)
16:42:41 [JF]: JS: moving on...
16:42:55 [JF]: JS: AAPI Mapping?
16:43:12 [JF]: cyns: Hard to get everyone together on a call - may need to look for an alternative time
16:43:31 [JF]: cyns: progress is slow
16:43:39 [JF]: JS: important document, has a ways to go
16:44:17 [JF]: JS: if anyone may not have noted, we have agreed to not have to map to MSAA, as it has been overtaken by other APIs that are more current
16:45:30 [David]: q+
16:45:52 [JF]: ack david
16:46:22 [JF]: David: just curious what the new way of referring to MSAA today?
16:46:29 [JF]: cyns: generally I say UIA
16:46:54 [JF]: cyns: but if there is a need for more detail then I expand on that
16:47:01 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:47:01 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Other Business" taken up [from janina]
16:47:14 [JF]: zakim, take up item 4
16:47:14 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;" taken up [from janina]
16:48:09 [JF]: JB: anyone on this call (John, David, others) - are you available at the old time next tuesday?
16:48:17 [JF]: David: have a conflict
16:48:30 [JF]: (JF & JS available)
16:48:49 [JF]: JB: just want to process Leonie
16:48:59 [JF]: s list against what we have
16:49:06 [Judy]: zakim, who's here?
16:49:06 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, hober, John_Foliot, [Microsoft], Judy, David_MacDonald, chaals, Cynthia_Shelly
16:49:07 [JF]: JB:
16:49:09 [Zakim]: [Microsoft] has paulc
16:49:09 [Zakim]: On IRC I see David, JF, richardschwerdtfeger, Judy, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, janina, davidb, chaals, IanPouncey, darobin, Stevef, trackbot, hober, MichaelC
16:49:13 [janina]: q?
16:49:55 [JF]: JB: will look to set up a call for next tuesday then to try and make some progress
16:50:02 [richardschwerdtfeger]: problem above is that i.e. supports msaa + UIA Express
16:50:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]: iE does not support UIA directly
16:50:51 [JF]: JS: media has been dormant for a while - we have a charge to propose an extension specification around the old Issue 194
16:51:05 [JF]: wondering if we should re-convene that group in the new yeart
16:51:11 [JF]: s/yeart/year/
16:51:34 [JF]: JSW: we should likely not ignore other efforts underway
16:51:52 [JF]: s/JSW/JS/
16:52:21 [paulc]: q+
16:52:32 [janina]: ack p
16:53:07 [JF]: PC: just want to be sure that everyone knows that the 2 sub-groups (encrypted media and streaming) are likely to publish FPWDsearly in the new year
16:53:57 [JF]: JS: hoping that protected media and accessibility goals can be achieved
16:54:04 [paulc]: Leaving to get ready for the WG meeting
16:54:10 [JF]: zakim, take up next item
16:54:10 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Other Business" taken up [from janina]
16:54:19 [JF]: JS: anyone?
16:54:42 [chaals]: ACTION-149?
16:54:42 [trackbot]: ACTION-149 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to follow up old action items and see which remain relevent -- due 2012-12-06 -- OPEN
16:54:42 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/149
16:55:23 [JF]: chaals: have not had time to address that
16:55:32 [JF]: action 148 on JF - stalled
16:55:32 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find 148. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/users>.
16:55:38 [JF]: 147 - ongoing
16:55:45 [JF]: 146 - will be closed
16:55:53 [JF]: 145 - completed
16:56:07 [JF]: 144 - incomplete at this time
16:56:18 [JF]: anything prior is covered by action 149
16:56:24 [Zakim]: -chaals
16:56:27 [Zakim]: -Judy
16:56:30 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
16:56:32 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
16:56:34 [Zakim]: -hober
16:56:36 [Zakim]: -Janina_Sajka
16:56:43 [Zakim]: -John_Foliot
16:57:31 [JF]: rrsagent, make logs public
16:57:43 [JF]: rrsagent, draft minutes
16:57:43 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:58:09 [JF]: zakim, please part
16:58:09 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina_Sajka, hober, John_Foliot, paulc, Judy, David_MacDonald, chaals, Cynthia_Shelly
16:58:09 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:00:04 [janina]: janina has left #html-a11y
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