IRC log of html-techs-tf on 2012-11-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-irc
- 07:41:28 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
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- meeting: HTML and ARIA Techniques TF FtF http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
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- agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
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- chair: Joshue_O_Connor
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- 07:53:53 [MichaelC]
- zakim, this will be wai_wcag
- 07:53:53 [Zakim]
- ok, MichaelC; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00AM scheduled to start 53 minutes ago
- 08:48:02 [Joshue108]
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- [NOTE]; We have temporarily adjourned to the HTML5 meeting (Rhone floor) - to highlight our work and generate interest. We have also added WCAG HTML5 techniques to the HTML5 agenda.
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- 10:26:05 [MichaelC]
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- MichaelC has changed the topic to: HTML Techs TF will regroup after lunch Lyon time (about 14:00 CET)
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-irc
- 12:59:59 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
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- 13:00:07 [MichaelC]
- zakim, this will be wai_wcag
- 13:00:07 [Zakim]
- ok, MichaelC; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00AM scheduled to start 360 minutes ago
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- 13:10:29 [David_MacD_Lenovo]
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- 13:11:16 [Joshue108]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ARIA
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- 13:13:50 [Joshue108]
- Scribenick: Jason Kiss
- 13:14:23 [Joshue108]
- TOPIC: Introductions
- 13:14:46 [LeonieWatson]
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- 13:15:14 [Joshue108]
- Present + David MacDonald, Jonas Jacek, Leonie Watson, Jason Kiss, Joshue O Connor
- 13:16:55 [jkiss]
- Joshue: we'll look at how to write techniques
- 13:21:03 [Joshue108]
- TOPIC: Overview
- 13:21:50 [Joshue108]
- present: David MacDonald, Jonas Jacek, Leonie Watson, Jason Kiss, Joshue O Connor
- 13:22:02 [MichaelC]
- Present: David_MacDonald, Jonas_Jacek, Leonie_Watson, Jason_Kiss, Joshue_O_Connor
- 13:22:17 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:22:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-minutes.html MichaelC
- 13:22:32 [jkiss]
- Joshue: mandate to do html5 and aria techniques
- 13:22:40 [jkiss]
- …almost a year working on it
- 13:23:05 [jkiss]
- …html5 in flux early on so focus more on aria
- 13:23:06 [Joshue108]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/HTML5
- 13:23:13 [Joshue108]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ARIA
- 13:23:52 [jkiss]
- Joshue: focus still on aria today, but html5 getting much steadier
- 13:24:37 [jkiss]
- Michael: html5 getting close to CR, and spec could lose unimplemented features, and incorporate implemented extension specs
- 13:25:20 [jkiss]
- …aria features are stable unless we abandon CR and return to WD, so is pretty stable
- 13:25:38 [jkiss]
- …propose that html5 be urgent focus for this task force
- 13:26:17 [jkiss]
- …want to document html5 a11y
- 13:26:54 [jkiss]
- …provide techniques around use cases in html5
- 13:27:35 [jkiss]
- Joshue: standard format for individual techniques
- 13:28:23 [jkiss]
- …initial technique can be relatively loose and get tidied up when go to wider WG
- 13:28:45 [jkiss]
- …techniques in list that are not linked have not been completed
- 13:29:19 [jkiss]
- …some techniques have names beside them, but not too prevent others from working on them
- 13:31:08 [jkiss]
- …26 to 27 techniques finished or in progress
- 13:32:04 [jkiss]
- s/26 to 27/26 to 27 aria/
- 13:32:46 [jkiss]
- Joshue: if one not as familiar with aria, can work on html5 techniques
- 13:33:03 [jkiss]
- …very few html5 techniques completed or being worked on
- 13:34:00 [jkiss]
- …8 html5 techniques pretty much completed
- 13:35:19 [jkiss]
- Leonie: have added two new aria techniques to work on - using aria-label and aria-labelled for SC 1.1.1
- 13:36:14 [jkiss]
- …I can also do third one in that set, using @title
- 13:36:40 [jkiss]
- Joshue: there are other tricky ones we should get to as well, avail. for someone who wants a challenge
- 13:37:22 [jkiss]
- David: I don't see that many aria techniques that aren't done
- 13:37:32 [jkiss]
- …only about six
- 13:37:47 [jkiss]
- Joshue: we should do gap analysis and determine what's left
- 13:37:58 [Joshue108]
- TOPIC: Techniques Gap Analysis
- 13:38:36 [jkiss]
- Joshue: what are really complicated ones, and what low-hanging fruit?
- 13:38:58 [jkiss]
- …David, what techniques do think should be addressed first?
- 13:39:12 [jkiss]
- David: I just see that we are close to finished
- 13:40:09 [jkiss]
- …All WCAG SC are listed, but not every one has associated techniques identified, and techniques that are listed are mostly done
- 13:40:31 [jkiss]
- Joshue: There are probably more techniques for SC that we need to add
- 13:41:00 [jkiss]
- Leonie: Isn't technique for using @title for SC 1.1.1 an HTML technique, and not aria
- 13:41:36 [jkiss]
- Joshue: good point. Suggest ping James Nurthen to find out why it was listed there
- 13:42:38 [jkiss]
- David: we just listed all SC, and then proposed techniques where we saw them, and these are mostly done
- 13:43:19 [jkiss]
- …right now Canada and Australia require that techniques be used for establishing a11y, and if no techniques, can't claim conformance, so we need to get these techniques out asap
- 13:43:59 [jkiss]
- Joshue: we can start releasing a few at a time as soon as we can and push them out as we finish them
- 13:44:25 [jkiss]
- Michael: Agree-lots of value to doing three to five a week to not overwhelm WG
- 13:45:02 [jkiss]
- …would be better for the public. Should expect some bounce backs first few submitted techniques, but eventually have them go through more quickly
- 13:46:08 [jkiss]
- Michael: need to agree which ones we are going to push out first
- 13:46:52 [jkiss]
- Joshue: I defer to Michael on process and how to move
- 13:47:16 [jkiss]
- …We need to produce, regardless of any pushback, to show that we are working and producing
- 13:47:55 [jkiss]
- Michael: three options. One, flag techniques that are ready to go and set ready for review status in wiki.
- 13:48:25 [jkiss]
- …Two, create action items for clean up by those people assigned, and monitor activity and follow up
- 13:48:40 [jkiss]
- …Three, create a separate todo list of techniques to work on
- 13:49:15 [jkiss]
- Joshue: propose we annotate current list of techniques with status
- 13:50:18 [jkiss]
- Michael: When techniques are surveyed in WBS, include link to survey in status of that technique
- 13:50:44 [jkiss]
- Joshue: let's use F2F to assess and annotate the techniques
- 13:51:14 [jkiss]
- …Leonie's first three techniques for 1.1.1 need more info
- 13:51:52 [jkiss]
- Leonie: do we need more consistent UA preferences identified?
- 13:52:55 [jkiss]
- Michael: trying to work out appropriate flags
- 13:53:12 [jkiss]
- Joshue: there's "needs info", "complete", what else?
- 13:53:32 [jkiss]
- Michael: "ready for review [complete]"
- 13:53:43 [jkiss]
- …that's the one WCAG chair will search on
- 13:54:12 [jkiss]
- …then there's "techniques accepted" -- would be set by WG, then we could remove from our list
- 13:54:36 [jkiss]
- …"techniques in development" should always be used until ready for review
- 13:55:11 [jkiss]
- David: Leonie, are you rewriting these techniques?
- 13:55:17 [jkiss]
- Leonie: No, they weren't done.
- 13:56:05 [jkiss]
- Michael: "migrated" means been moved after approved
- 13:56:14 [MichaelC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Category:Technique_Status Technique status categories
- 13:58:40 [jkiss]
- Michael: might need one more status flag not listed, "Techniques Needs Edits"
- 13:59:29 [jkiss]
- …now added
- 14:00:10 [jkiss]
- Joshue: for Leonie's SC 1.1.1 techniques, set flag "in development"
- 14:02:36 [jkiss]
- Jason: need to correct spelling on aria-labeledby -> aria-labelledby
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- 14:04:00 [jkiss]
- Michael: at top of each technique, add Category tags
- 14:04:11 [jkiss]
- …can have multiple Category tags
- 14:04:30 [jkiss]
- …under "Status" add human-readable account of flags and any work done
- 14:04:57 [jkiss]
- …if "Techniques Needs Edits", after edits are made, remove that tag but leave the "in development" tag
- 14:06:26 [jkiss]
- David: Can we add "ready for review" at top of those are ready?
- 14:06:40 [jkiss]
- Michael: let's work through them as a group, one by one
- 14:08:07 [jkiss]
- …need someone to maintain index page while I edit flags on techniques
- 14:08:11 [jkiss]
- David: I'll do it
- 14:10:00 [jkiss]
- Joshue: trying to find survey for any given technique and feedback
- 14:14:58 [Joshue108]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/closed
- 14:15:06 [jkiss]
- Leonie: are we putting a link to the survey at the top of each technique?
- 14:15:11 [jkiss]
- Joshue: Yes
- 14:15:28 [jkiss]
- Jonas: where do you get the survey feedback from
- 14:15:54 [jkiss]
- Michael: it goes out to WCAG WG who provides comments and discusses at WG meetings and return comments
- 14:16:15 [jkiss]
- Jonas: no automated way to link technique with its feedback/survey?
- 14:16:23 [jkiss]
- Michael: No
- 14:16:32 [jkiss]
- Joshue: That's what we'll do now.
- 14:17:41 [jkiss]
- …Based on who's here, let's decide on what techniques to look at
- 14:17:45 [Joshue108]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-describedby
- 14:17:50 [jkiss]
- …David's aria-describedby technique
- 14:18:30 [jkiss]
- …is pretty much good to go. Let's change the status of all of David's techniques to ready for review and fix them as feedback from WG comes in
- 14:20:03 [jkiss]
- Michael: so we are changing status from "techniques in development" to "techniques ready for review"
- 14:21:54 [jkiss]
- Joshue: Aria landmarks techniques ready to go
- 14:22:39 [jkiss]
- …"Headings using role=heading" given to Léonie
- 14:22:58 [jkiss]
- …Jon Gunderson's techniques about ready to go
- 14:25:38 [jkiss]
- Joshue: Shadi's just joined us. Welcome Shadi.
- 14:28:05 [jkiss]
- Michael: just adding common tags to all techniques. Almost done, then can add "ready to review" flag to those that need it.
- 14:28:50 [jkiss]
- Joshue: Shadi, we've made progress on aria techniques, about 28, and just now identifying those that are ready for review
- 14:29:11 [jkiss]
- Shadi: how do you determine accessibility support for each technique
- 14:29:35 [jkiss]
- Joshue: based on AT and UAs available to the author
- 14:30:03 [jkiss]
- Shadi: Michael, have you introduced a11y supported database?
- 14:32:12 [jkiss]
- …WAI putting together database of a11y support for WCAG techniques
- 14:33:01 [jkiss]
- …is funded by European Commission
- 14:34:40 [jkiss]
- …would that be useful to work of this TF?
- 14:37:28 [jkiss]
- Joshue: Yes.
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- 15:34:51 [jkiss]
- Working session rest of meeting: tagging and establishing status of individual techniques
- 15:48:15 [jkiss]
- Correction: techniques surveys went out to the techniques TF, not the WCAG WG. Next step is to send completed techniques to WG for review and feedback.
- 15:50:58 [Joshue108]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_role_attribute_to_expose_the_role_of_a_user_interface_component
- 16:07:18 [Joshue108]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_WAI-ARIA_state_and_property_attributes_to_expose_the_state_of_a_user_interface_component#Applicability
- 16:07:36 [jamesn]
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- 16:25:15 [David_MacD_Lenovo]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs20121005/results#xtree
- 16:27:17 [Joshue108]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_WAI-ARIA_aria-expanded_state_in_a_tree_widget
- 16:27:33 [Joshue108]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
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- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue108
- 16:28:18 [MichaelC]
- Nobody answered this survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/html-techsjuly_23rd/results
- 16:31:36 [MichaelC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Instructions Techniques Instructions
- 16:31:49 [MichaelC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Template Technique Template
- 16:37:52 [jkiss]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
- 16:47:13 [Joshue108]
- rrsagent, make minutes
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- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue108
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