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07:41:28 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
07:41:50 <MichaelC> meeting: HTML and ARIA Techniques TF FtF http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
07:41:53 <MichaelC> agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
07:42:30 <MichaelC> chair: Joshue_O_Connor
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07:53:53 <MichaelC> zakim, this will be wai_wcag
07:53:53 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00AM scheduled to start 53 minutes ago
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08:51:07 <Joshue108> [NOTE]; We have temporarily adjourned to the HTML5 meeting (Rhone floor)  - to highlight our work and generate interest. We have also added WCAG HTML5 techniques to the HTML5 agenda.
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10:26:37 <MichaelC> MichaelC has changed the topic to: HTML Techs TF will regroup after lunch Lyon time (about 14:00 CET)
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12:59:59 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
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13:00:07 <MichaelC> zakim, this will be wai_wcag
13:00:07 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00AM scheduled to start 360 minutes ago
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13:11:16 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ARIA
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13:13:50 <Joshue108> Scribenick: Jason Kiss
13:14:23 <Joshue108> TOPIC: Introductions
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13:15:14 <Joshue108>  Present + David MacDonald, Jonas Jacek, Leonie Watson, Jason Kiss, Joshue O Connor
13:16:55 <jkiss> Joshue: we'll look at how to write techniques
13:21:03 <Joshue108> TOPIC: Overview
13:21:50 <Joshue108> present: David MacDonald, Jonas Jacek, Leonie Watson, Jason Kiss, Joshue O Connor
13:22:02 <MichaelC> Present: David_MacDonald, Jonas_Jacek, Leonie_Watson, Jason_Kiss, Joshue_O_Connor
13:22:17 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
13:22:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-minutes.html MichaelC
13:22:32 <jkiss> Joshue: mandate to do html5 and aria techniques
13:22:40 <jkiss> …almost a year working on it
13:23:05 <jkiss> …html5 in flux early on so focus more on aria
13:23:06 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/HTML5
13:23:13 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ARIA
13:23:52 <jkiss> Joshue: focus still on aria today, but html5 getting much steadier
13:24:37 <jkiss> Michael: html5 getting close to CR, and spec could lose unimplemented features, and incorporate implemented extension specs
13:25:20 <jkiss> …aria features are stable unless we abandon CR and return to WD, so is pretty stable
13:25:38 <jkiss> …propose that html5 be urgent focus for this task force
13:26:17 <jkiss> …want to document html5 a11y
13:26:54 <jkiss> …provide techniques around use cases in html5
13:27:35 <jkiss> Joshue: standard format for individual techniques
13:28:23 <jkiss> …initial technique can be relatively loose and get tidied up when go to wider WG
13:28:45 <jkiss> …techniques in list that are not linked have not been completed
13:29:19 <jkiss> …some techniques have names beside them, but not too prevent others from working on them
13:31:08 <jkiss> …26 to 27 techniques finished or in progress
13:32:04 <jkiss> s/26 to 27/26 to 27 aria/
13:32:46 <jkiss> Joshue: if one not as familiar with aria, can work on html5 techniques
13:33:03 <jkiss> …very few html5 techniques completed or being worked on
13:34:00 <jkiss> …8 html5 techniques pretty much completed
13:35:19 <jkiss> Leonie: have added two new aria techniques to work on - using aria-label and aria-labelled for SC 1.1.1
13:36:14 <jkiss> …I can also do third one in that set, using @title
13:36:40 <jkiss> Joshue: there are other tricky ones we should get to as well, avail. for someone who wants a challenge
13:37:22 <jkiss> David: I don't see that many aria techniques that aren't done
13:37:32 <jkiss> …only about six
13:37:47 <jkiss> Joshue: we should do gap analysis and determine what's left
13:37:58 <Joshue108> TOPIC: Techniques Gap Analysis
13:38:36 <jkiss> Joshue: what are really complicated ones, and what low-hanging fruit?
13:38:58 <jkiss> …David, what techniques do think should be addressed first?
13:39:12 <jkiss> David: I just see that we are close to finished
13:40:09 <jkiss> …All WCAG SC are listed, but not every one has associated techniques identified, and techniques that are listed are mostly done
13:40:31 <jkiss> Joshue: There are probably more techniques for SC that we need to add
13:41:00 <jkiss> Leonie: Isn't technique for using @title for SC 1.1.1 an HTML technique, and not aria
13:41:36 <jkiss> Joshue: good point. Suggest ping James Nurthen to find out why it was listed there
13:42:38 <jkiss> David: we just listed all SC, and then proposed techniques where we saw them, and these are mostly done
13:43:19 <jkiss> …right now Canada and Australia require that techniques be used for establishing a11y, and if no techniques, can't claim conformance, so we need to get these techniques out asap
13:43:59 <jkiss> Joshue: we can start releasing a few at a time as soon as we can and push them out as we finish them
13:44:25 <jkiss> Michael: Agree-lots of value to doing three to five a week to not overwhelm WG
13:45:02 <jkiss> …would be better for the public. Should expect some bounce backs first few submitted techniques, but eventually have them go through more quickly
13:46:08 <jkiss> Michael: need to agree which ones we are going to push out first
13:46:52 <jkiss> Joshue: I defer to Michael on process and how to move
13:47:16 <jkiss> …We need to produce, regardless of any pushback, to show that we are working and producing
13:47:55 <jkiss> Michael: three options. One, flag techniques that are ready to go and set ready for review status in wiki.
13:48:25 <jkiss> …Two, create action items for clean up by those people assigned, and monitor activity and follow up
13:48:40 <jkiss> …Three, create a separate todo list of techniques to work on
13:49:15 <jkiss> Joshue: propose we annotate current list of techniques with status
13:50:18 <jkiss> Michael: When techniques are surveyed in WBS, include link to survey in status of that technique
13:50:44 <jkiss> Joshue: let's use F2F to assess and annotate the techniques
13:51:14 <jkiss> …Leonie's first three techniques for 1.1.1 need more info
13:51:52 <jkiss> Leonie: do we need more consistent UA preferences identified?
13:52:55 <jkiss> Michael: trying to work out appropriate flags
13:53:12 <jkiss> Joshue: there's "needs info", "complete", what else?
13:53:32 <jkiss> Michael: "ready for review [complete]"
13:53:43 <jkiss> …that's the one WCAG chair will search on
13:54:12 <jkiss> …then there's "techniques accepted" -- would be set by WG, then we could remove from our list
13:54:36 <jkiss> …"techniques in development" should always be used until ready for review
13:55:11 <jkiss> David: Leonie, are you rewriting these techniques?
13:55:17 <jkiss> Leonie: No, they weren't done.
13:56:05 <jkiss> Michael: "migrated" means been moved after approved
13:56:14 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Category:Technique_Status Technique status categories
13:58:40 <jkiss> Michael: might need one more status flag not listed, "Techniques Needs Edits"
13:59:29 <jkiss> …now added
14:00:10 <jkiss> Joshue: for Leonie's SC 1.1.1 techniques, set flag "in development"
14:02:36 <jkiss> Jason: need to correct spelling on aria-labeledby -> aria-labelledby
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14:04:00 <jkiss> Michael: at top of each technique, add Category tags
14:04:11 <jkiss> …can have multiple Category tags
14:04:30 <jkiss> …under "Status" add human-readable account of flags and any work done
14:04:57 <jkiss> …if "Techniques Needs Edits", after edits are made, remove that tag but leave the "in development" tag
14:06:26 <jkiss> David: Can we add "ready for review" at top of those are ready?
14:06:40 <jkiss> Michael: let's work through them as a group, one by one
14:08:07 <jkiss> …need someone to maintain index page while I edit flags on techniques
14:08:11 <jkiss> David: I'll do it
14:10:00 <jkiss> Joshue: trying to find survey for any given technique and feedback
14:14:58 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/closed
14:15:06 <jkiss> Leonie: are we putting a link to the survey at the top of each technique?
14:15:11 <jkiss> Joshue: Yes
14:15:28 <jkiss> Jonas: where do you get the survey feedback from
14:15:54 <jkiss> Michael: it goes out to WCAG WG who provides comments and discusses at WG meetings and return comments
14:16:15 <jkiss> Jonas: no automated way to link technique with its feedback/survey?
14:16:23 <jkiss> Michael: No
14:16:32 <jkiss> Joshue: That's what we'll do now.
14:17:41 <jkiss> …Based on who's here, let's decide on what techniques to look at
14:17:45 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-describedby
14:17:50 <jkiss> …David's aria-describedby technique
14:18:30 <jkiss> …is pretty much good to go. Let's change the status of all of David's techniques to ready for review and fix them as feedback from WG comes in
14:20:03 <jkiss> Michael: so we are changing status from "techniques in development" to "techniques ready for review"
14:21:54 <jkiss> Joshue: Aria landmarks techniques ready to go
14:22:39 <jkiss> …"Headings using role=heading" given to Léonie
14:22:58 <jkiss> …Jon Gunderson's techniques about ready to go
14:25:38 <jkiss> Joshue: Shadi's just joined us. Welcome Shadi.
14:28:05 <jkiss> Michael: just adding common tags to all techniques. Almost done, then can add "ready to review" flag to those that need it.
14:28:50 <jkiss> Joshue: Shadi, we've made progress on aria techniques, about 28, and just now identifying those that are ready for review
14:29:11 <jkiss> Shadi: how do you determine accessibility support for each technique
14:29:35 <jkiss> Joshue: based on AT and UAs available to the author
14:30:03 <jkiss> Shadi: Michael, have you introduced a11y supported database?
14:32:12 <jkiss> …WAI putting together database of a11y support for WCAG techniques
14:33:01 <jkiss> …is funded by European Commission
14:34:40 <jkiss> …would that be useful to work of this TF?
14:37:28 <jkiss> Joshue: Yes.
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15:34:51 <jkiss> Working session rest of meeting: tagging and establishing status of individual techniques
15:48:15 <jkiss> Correction: techniques surveys went out to the techniques TF, not the WCAG WG. Next step is to send completed techniques to WG for review and feedback.
15:50:58 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_role_attribute_to_expose_the_role_of_a_user_interface_component
16:07:18 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_WAI-ARIA_state_and_property_attributes_to_expose_the_state_of_a_user_interface_component#Applicability
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16:25:15 <David_MacD_Lenovo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs20121005/results#xtree
16:27:17 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_WAI-ARIA_aria-expanded_state_in_a_tree_widget
16:27:33 <Joshue108> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:27:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue108
16:28:18 <MichaelC> Nobody answered this survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/html-techsjuly_23rd/results
16:31:36 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Instructions Techniques Instructions
16:31:49 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Template Technique Template
16:37:52 <jkiss> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
16:47:13 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make minutes
16:47:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue108
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