IRC log of ldp on 2012-10-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:32 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/22-ldp-irc

13:59:34 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:59:34 [Zakim]

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13:59:36 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be LDP

13:59:36 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started

13:59:37 [trackbot]

Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

13:59:37 [trackbot]

Date: 22 October 2012

13:59:43 [Zakim]

+Arnaud

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14:00:05 [Ruben1]

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14:00:30 [Ruben1]

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14:00:33 [krp]

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14:00:44 [Zakim]

-??P3

14:00:50 [Zakim]

+??P7

14:00:59 [Zakim]

+??P8

14:01:01 [rgarcia]

zakim, ??P7 is me

14:01:01 [Zakim]

+rgarcia; got it

14:01:13 [oberger]

Zakim, ??P8 is me

14:01:13 [Zakim]

+oberger; got it

14:01:15 [Zakim]

+ +1.845.235.aaaa

14:01:23 [JohnArwe]

zakim, aaaa is me

14:01:23 [Zakim]

+JohnArwe; got it

14:01:26 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:01:27 [Zakim]

+??P3

14:01:28 [Zakim]

+Ruben

14:01:35 [Zakim]

+Sandro

14:01:36 [Zakim]

+Ashok_Malhotra

14:01:36 [Zakim]

+SteveBattle

14:01:38 [antonis]

zakim, ??p10 is me

14:01:39 [Zakim]

+antonis; got it

14:01:44 [Zakim]

+ +44.208.573.aabb

14:01:51 [svillata]

Zakim, ??P3 is me

14:01:51 [Zakim]

+svillata; got it

14:02:06 [Ruben]

Ruben has joined #ldp

14:02:09 [nmihindu]

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14:02:13 [Ruben]

zakim, who am i

14:02:13 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who am i', Ruben

14:02:24 [Ruben]

zakim, who is there

14:02:24 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is there', Ruben

14:02:30 [Zakim]

+Yves

14:02:33 [Ruben]

zakim, who is here

14:02:33 [Zakim]

Ruben, you need to end that query with '?'

14:02:40 [Ruben]

zakim, who is here?

14:02:40 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Arnaud, rgarcia, oberger, JohnArwe, antonis, svillata, Ruben, Sandro, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, +44.208.573.aabb, Yves

14:02:43 [Zakim]

On IRC I see nmihindu, Ruben, Ashok_Malhotra, rgarcia, Zakim, RRSAgent, stevebattle, svillata, antonis, Arnaud, JohnArwe, oberger, bblfish, Yves, trackbot, sandro, ericP

14:03:06 [Ruben]

*I did*

14:03:32 [Ruben]

*he should at least say "bless you" or something*

14:03:34 [Zakim]

+??P21

14:03:37 [krp]

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14:03:40 [oberger]

Hi Arnaud and all

14:05:16 [roger]

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14:05:18 [oberger]

can't seem to unmute

14:05:28 [nmihindu]

Zakim, ??P21 is me

14:05:28 [Zakim]

+nmihindu; got it

14:06:00 [oberger]

Arnaud, yes, Andrei is probably too busy to participate I'm afraid

14:06:08 [stevebattle]

Arnaud, I'm happy to take minutes.

14:06:14 [JohnArwe]

zakim, unmute oberger

14:06:14 [Zakim]

oberger was not muted, JohnArwe

14:06:25 [oberger]

locally muted

14:06:40 [Zakim]

+bblfish

14:06:53 [bblfish]

hi

14:07:06 [stevebattle]

topic: approve minutes

14:07:19 [mhausenblas]

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14:07:19 [JohnArwe]

topic: minutes from last week

14:07:19 [stevebattle]

scribenick: stevebattle

14:07:22 [nmihindu]

Zakim, mute me

14:07:22 [Zakim]

nmihindu should now be muted

14:07:38 [krp_]

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14:07:46 [bblfish]

what's the URL?

14:07:49 [Zakim]

+MHausenblas

14:08:20 [Arnaud]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-10-15

14:08:35 [bblfish]

thanks

14:08:44 [mhausenblas]

+1

14:08:51 [Zakim]

+??P30

14:09:01 [cygri]

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14:09:04 [BartvanLeeuwen]

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14:09:07 [bblfish]

+1

14:09:09 [JohnArwe]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings is probably a link we should seed each meeting's irc with...

14:09:19 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, cyrgi is with me

14:09:19 [Zakim]

+cyrgi; got it

14:09:24 [svillata]

+1

14:09:38 [krp_]

zakim, ??P30 is me

14:09:38 [Zakim]

+krp_; got it

14:10:02 [stevebattle]

arnaud: minutes approved (with plea that more people read them)

14:10:16 [Zakim]

+??P32

14:10:24 [BartvanLeeuwen]

Zakim, ??p32 is me

14:10:26 [Zakim]

+BartvanLeeuwen; got it

14:10:50 [oberger]

Skipping 10.29 and 11.05 teleconferences due to TPAC ?

14:10:55 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:10:57 [stevebattle]

arnaud: no telecon monday due to f2f. Proposes no call on the following Monday as well.

14:11:03 [bblfish]

makes sense for dropping next Teleconf, as people will be at TPAC

14:11:29 [oberger]

ericP: woodstock

14:11:31 [JohnArwe2]

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14:11:42 [stevebattle]

sandro: perhaps we could have an informal optional meeting to review highlights of f2f.

14:11:48 [JohnArwe2]

+1 sandro's idea, for those of us w/o travel budgets

14:12:00 [Kalpa]

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14:12:01 [bblfish]

+1 makes sense for TPAC after party meeting

14:12:02 [svillata]

+1 sandro's proposal

14:12:05 [mhausenblas]

+1

14:12:08 [rgarcia]

+1

14:12:19 [BartvanLeeuwen]

+1

14:12:19 [Zakim]

+ +1.617.838.aacc

14:12:30 [oberger]

shall we use IRC during the F2F ?

14:12:35 [Yves]

yes

14:12:41 [nmihindu]

+1

14:12:42 [oberger]

i.e. will there be network on location ?

14:12:52 [Yves]

ooberger, yes

14:12:57 [Yves]

s/oo/o/

14:12:58 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Agreed. skip 10/29/12, following meeting is catch-up.

14:12:58 [bblfish]

Proposal: skip next meeting, and have informal meeting after TPAC

14:13:32 [bblfish]

( can't remember how to accept a proposal )

14:13:42 [JohnArwe2]

topic: next 2 meetings

14:13:45 [stevebattle]

arnaud: One person is listed as participant but hasn't registered. No more room left, because observers have been accepted.

14:14:13 [JohnArwe2]

oct 29 cancelled, nov 5 will be recap of tpac f2f

14:15:11 [stevebattle]

arnaud: draft agenda is available. Crux of work is to go through the issues. Have people reviewed agenda?

14:16:40 [oberger]

still muted, sorry

14:16:41 [stevebattle]

issues follow naturally from use-cases

14:16:56 [oberger]

I meant at the F2F

14:18:08 [JohnArwe]

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14:18:08 [stevebattle]

sandro: likes to hear people explain use-cases in person.

14:18:11 [JohnArwe]

we will need to update http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F1 with call-in details prior to nov 1

14:18:43 [oberger]

sandro: +1

14:19:03 [stevebattle]

arnaud: same dial-in number or not?

14:19:32 [stevebattle]

sandro: Probably same number but maybe conference code. Will look into it today.

14:20:30 [stevebattle]

arnaud: someone should add the information to the wiki.

14:20:46 [stevebattle]

topic: actions

14:21:14 [JohnArwe]

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14:21:22 [stevebattle]

mhausenblas: I will complete the sdshare review by f2f

14:22:16 [stevebattle]

steve: I'll change ucr terminology this week.

14:22:56 [Zakim]

+Kalpa

14:23:07 [oberger]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/25

14:23:21 [oberger]

">eak aggregation and strong composition in containers"

14:23:25 [oberger]

"Weak aggregation and strong composition in containers"

14:24:59 [bblfish]

q+

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14:26:00 [JohnArwe]

+1 open as an issue - important that we are clear on it regardless of resolution

14:26:04 [stevebattle]

steve: explains aggregation is a very long winded way.

14:26:31 [stevebattle]

henry: don't think we should have restrictions on URIs being built in this way.

14:26:51 [oberger]

shall we open it then ? ;)

14:27:49 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Open issue 25.

14:28:01 [oberger]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/26

14:28:30 [stevebattle]

Roger: I have opened my first w3c issue

14:28:44 [oberger]

ISSUE-26: creation model for LDP

14:28:45 [trackbot]

ISSUE-26 creation model for LDP notes added

14:29:00 [oberger]

oops... should not copy-paste as such I guess

14:29:40 [stevebattle]

roger: Issue 26 creation model for LDP. There are many ways this might happen e.g. forms on the web.

14:29:50 [stevebattle]

q+

14:29:51 [JohnArwe]

fine to open 26; I would observe that the draft does not REQUIRE that the server uses all the POSTed triples, it follows HTTP by treating the POST request body as input used to create a resource. often they will have the same type, but I don't see that as required.

14:30:04 [bblfish]

q-

14:30:41 [stevebattle]

q-

14:31:07 [stevebattle]

arnaud: no objections. Open issue 26.

14:31:23 [oberger]

trackbot, reopen ISSUE-26

14:31:23 [trackbot]

ISSUE-26 creation model for LDP re-opened

14:31:40 [oberger]

trackbot, reopen ISSUE-25

14:31:40 [trackbot]

ISSUE-25 Weak aggregation and strong composition in containers re-opened

14:31:58 [bblfish]

Issue-8?

14:31:58 [trackbot]

ISSUE-8 -- Better define or just not use the "Basic profile" terminology -- pending review

14:31:58 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/8

14:32:25 [oberger]

YES

14:32:45 [stevebattle]

topic: one issue pending review? issue-8 - can we close this? all agree that we can close this.

14:32:54 [stevebattle]

henry: has a small swap space.

14:33:15 [bblfish]

makes sense

14:33:19 [oberger]

as a submitter, I'm satisfied :-)

14:33:23 [bblfish]

I don't ahve a problem

14:33:31 [stevebattle]

s/henry/bblfish/

14:34:01 [oberger]

yes, still muted

14:34:03 [oberger]

as a submitter, I'm satisfied :-)

14:34:07 [oberger]

let's close it

14:34:16 [stevebattle]

arnaud: everybody is satisfied.

14:34:20 [oberger]

close ISSUE-8

14:34:21 [trackbot]

ISSUE-8 Better define or just not use the "Basic profile" terminology closed

14:34:42 [JohnArwe]

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14:34:49 [stevebattle]

topic: LDP Specification

14:35:05 [oberger]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/hg/ldp.html

14:35:27 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Open issues have been added. Do we agree that we can publish this as the first *public* working draft?

14:36:28 [bblfish]

+1

14:36:34 [stevebattle]

+1

14:36:37 [oberger]

+1

14:36:39 [Arnaud]

+1

14:36:41 [ericP]

+1

14:36:43 [Ruben]

+1

14:36:43 [Yves]

+1

14:36:57 [roger]

+1

14:36:57 [BartvanLeeuwen]

+1

14:36:59 [krp_]

+1

14:37:01 [rgarcia]

+1

14:37:08 [nmihindu]

+1

14:37:10 [antonis]

+1

14:37:13 [Kalpa]

+1

14:37:24 [mhausenblas]

+1

14:37:30 [oberger]

yay

14:37:42 [JohnArwe]

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14:37:42 [ericP]

+yay

14:37:42 [mhausenblas]

\o/

14:37:49 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Unanimous (+15) resolved!

14:37:53 [svillata]

+1

14:38:18 [stevebattle]

topic: Use-Cases and Requirements document

14:38:27 [oberger]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements

14:39:44 [oberger]

we *lack* diagrams

14:40:20 [mhausenblas]

Michael: hmmm, what would the purpose of the primer be?

14:40:32 [mhausenblas]

Michael: I fear a bit the flood of related docs we have in RDF spec land

14:40:46 [Ashok_Malhotra]

q+

14:40:53 [oberger]

chainsaw in the background ? ;)

14:40:54 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Primer in which sense? Like in http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/ … or?

14:41:10 [stevebattle]

steve: proposes move examples to primer.

14:41:50 [ericP]

agenda+ how many folks will dial in to the F2F?

14:42:01 [stevebattle]

arnaud: The descriptions seem to imply a solution, maybe too much analysis.

14:42:12 [ericP]

q+

14:42:33 [Arnaud]

ack ashok

14:42:35 [JohnArwe]

agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.10.22

14:43:03 [JohnArwe]

I am high probability to dial in (early riser).

14:43:06 [ericP]

q+ to say that it's our (WG's) discretion to slice up the info into docs. creating a Primer will provide a nice resting place for Steve's investment

14:43:10 [stevebattle]

ashok_Malhotra: Would like to see a primer. Typically an afterthought.

14:43:13 [Arnaud]

ack eric

14:43:13 [Zakim]

ericP, you wanted to say that it's our (WG's) discretion to slice up the info into docs. creating a Primer will provide a nice resting place for Steve's investment

14:43:42 [stevebattle]

q+

14:44:07 [Arnaud]

ack steve

14:45:10 [stevebattle]

arnaud: I'd like steve to create a new home for the examples.

14:45:13 [stevebattle]

q+

14:45:50 [Arnaud]

ack steve

14:46:42 [JohnArwe2]

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14:47:31 [stevebattle]

steve: proposes that we leave issues in for now.

14:48:04 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Should we call this the 'primer' for now?

14:48:45 [JohnArwe2]

+1 examples

14:48:48 [bblfish]

+1

14:48:58 [stevebattle]

Ashok_Malhotra: I'm more comfortable with "Examples".

14:49:07 [stevebattle]

+1

14:49:13 [svillata]

+1

14:49:17 [BartvanLeeuwen]

+1

14:49:55 [stevebattle]

arnaud: We have agreement on "Examples"

14:50:50 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Another point on the UCR. We need to review document carefully.

14:50:53 [stevebattle]

q+

14:51:30 [oberger]

what we need is to fill the "Scope and Motivation" section ?

14:52:20 [Arnaud]

ack steve

14:53:13 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Issues like e.g. authorization may not be on our agenda.

14:54:08 [bblfish]

I think we should wait for TPAC

14:54:09 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Do people agree?

14:54:10 [oberger]

again : what we need is to fill the "Scope and Motivation" section ? who may draft it ?

14:54:22 [Arnaud]

q?

14:55:18 [mhausenblas]

q+

14:55:19 [mhausenblas]

q?

14:55:29 [mhausenblas]

ack me

14:55:35 [stevebattle]

arnaud: We should all decide that all use-cases are in/out-of scope.

14:56:07 [stevebattle]

mhasenblas: We should err on the side of conservatism.

14:56:11 [JohnArwe2]

maybe it's the cell connection, but I think arnaud and I are in violent agreement.

14:56:28 [stevebattle]

s/mhasenblas/hausenblas/

14:56:50 [stevebattle]

+1

14:57:29 [stevebattle]

mhasenblas: We shouldn't try to boil the ocean.

14:57:48 [stevebattle]

s/mhasenblas/hausenblas/

14:58:03 [bblfish]

q+

14:58:06 [bblfish]

q?

14:58:14 [stevebattle]

q+

14:58:32 [JohnArwe2]

I'm not convinced that use case is exactly the right granularity. it's a viable coarse-grained filter for sure. but I can also see that a very beautiful use case might mention (perhaps in passing) words that could be read to drive a requirement that we have (existing) consensus as being out of scope.

14:59:17 [mhausenblas]

q?

14:59:57 [Arnaud]

ack bblfish

15:00:24 [stevebattle]

bblfish: We'll work on this at TPAC.

15:00:44 [stevebattle]

ericP: How many people will be dialing in for TPAC?

15:01:29 [stevebattle]

arnaud: People - make sure wiki is up-to-date.

15:01:32 [JohnArwe2]

...in the end, any natural language formulation will be ambiguous for any determined reader. A relatively complete job might require enumerating all requirements that members can see being -potentially- elicited by each use case, de-dup'ing that list, and then one by one getting consensus on in/out. That sounds painful, but good jobs often are.

15:02:11 [bblfish]

My argument was just to agree with arnaud and michel for a half way position, since the user stories are part of the dreams of the community and their reasons for wanting to participate

15:02:27 [stevebattle]

stevebattle: user stories provide the motivation. The scope may be narrower.

15:02:55 [stevebattle]

And it's OK to capture use-cases and mark them as out of scope.

15:03:07 [oberger]

s/moon/mars/

15:03:25 [bblfish]

q?

15:03:27 [stevebattle]

arnaud: The LDP isn't a mission to the moon.

15:03:28 [stevebattle]

q-

15:03:47 [Zakim]

- +1.617.838.aacc

15:04:05 [stevebattle]

bblfish: We should link the use-cases to the spec to see how they tie-up.

15:04:38 [stevebattle]

arnaud: Please review the UCR.

15:04:45 [Zakim]

-bblfish

15:04:46 [BartvanLeeuwen]

bye, see you next week

15:04:46 [Zakim]

-Sandro

15:04:47 [Zakim]

- +44.208.573.aabb

15:04:47 [stevebattle]

arnaud: adjourned

15:04:48 [Zakim]

-MHausenblas

15:04:48 [Zakim]

-antonis

15:04:48 [oberger]

see ya in Lyon

15:04:49 [Zakim]

-Ruben

15:04:51 [Zakim]

-svillata

15:04:52 [Ruben]

Ruben has left #ldp

15:04:52 [Zakim]

-rgarcia

15:04:52 [Zakim]

-Yves

15:04:54 [Zakim]

-BartvanLeeuwen

15:04:54 [Zakim]

-Ashok_Malhotra

15:04:57 [antonis]

bye

15:04:58 [oberger]

yes

15:05:01 [Zakim]

-JohnArwe

15:05:01 [stevebattle]

bye

15:05:05 [Zakim]

-Arnaud

15:05:06 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:05:08 [Zakim]

-nmihindu

15:05:09 [Zakim]

-krp_

15:05:11 [Zakim]

-Kalpa

15:05:14 [oberger]

Arnaud, still muted in my VOIP software

15:05:25 [Arnaud]

it's ok, I understand

15:05:30 [oberger]

but could be calling you with regular phone number

15:05:44 [Arnaud]

do you have any idea for a restaurant for dinner on Thursday?

15:05:45 [Zakim]

-oberger

15:05:49 [oberger]

oh

15:05:50 [Kalpa]

Kalpa has left #ldp

15:05:53 [stevebattle]

So what's the magic sauce to wrap-up the minutes?

15:06:02 [oberger]

Arnaud, not really

15:06:15 [oberger]

I've not lived in Lyon for the last 15 years at least ;)

15:06:22 [Arnaud]

ok, so we'll need to figure this out next week

15:07:06 [Arnaud]

stevebattle: this is it, nothing else to do, I will take it from there

15:07:07 [oberger]

http://mmmm.free.fr/scripts/script_liste_departement.php?dept=69 could provide good guidance

15:07:12 [oberger]

but no waranty

15:07:26 [stevebattle]

thanks, bye.

15:07:27 [Arnaud]

ok, thanks

15:07:42 [Arnaud]

trackbot, ends meeting

15:07:42 [trackbot]

Sorry, Arnaud, I don't understand 'trackbot, ends meeting'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

15:07:49 [Zakim]

-SteveBattle

15:07:50 [Arnaud]

trackbot, end meeting

15:07:50 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

15:07:50 [Zakim]

SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

15:07:50 [Zakim]

Attendees were Arnaud, rgarcia, oberger, +1.845.235.aaaa, JohnArwe, Ruben, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveBattle, antonis, +44.208.573.aabb, svillata, Yves, nmihindu, bblfish,

15:07:50 [Zakim]

... MHausenblas, cyrgi, krp_, BartvanLeeuwen, EricP, +1.617.838.aacc, Kalpa

15:07:50 [Zakim]

sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is

15:07:58 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:07:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/22-ldp-minutes.html trackbot

15:07:59 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

15:07:59 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items