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16:56:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-irc
16:56:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 175
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16:56:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
16:56:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
16:56:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
16:56:27 <trackbot> Date: 17 October 2012
16:56:31 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0012.html
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16:59:46 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()1:00PM has now started
16:59:52 <Zakim> +??P1
16:59:56 <janina> trackbot, start meeting
16:59:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 175
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17:00:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
17:00:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()1:00PM already started
17:00:01 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
17:00:01 <trackbot> Date: 17 October 2012
17:00:07 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P1 is Michael_Cooper
17:00:07 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
17:00:10 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
17:00:27 <Zakim> +??P4
17:00:33 <janina> zakim, ??P4 is Janina
17:00:33 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
17:00:36 <Zakim> +Shawn
17:00:39 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
17:00:39 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:00:39 <janina> agenda+ IndieUI Overview Page http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0006.html
17:00:42 <janina> agenda+ TPAC http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
17:00:44 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Draft?  https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/open
17:00:47 <janina> agenda+ Use Cases Walk-Through; Continued http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:00:48 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
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17:00:50 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
17:00:58 <Zakim> +[Apple]
17:01:06 <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
17:01:06 <Zakim> +hober; got it
17:01:25 <Zakim> +[Apple]
17:01:27 <Zakim> +??P15
17:01:39 <jcraig> Zakim, [Apple] has jcraig
17:01:39 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
17:01:49 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P15 is Andy_Heath
17:01:49 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
17:03:34 <janina>  scribe: andy
17:03:41 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
17:03:41 <Zakim> agendum 1. "IndieUI Overview Page http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0006.html" taken up [from janina]
17:04:06 <andy> Yanina: item item 1
17:04:12 <clown> clown has joined #indie-ui
17:04:15 <andy> Sean didn't follow up with twekas
17:04:25 <jcraig> s/Yanina/Janina/
17:04:38 <andy> will review what the tweaks are
17:04:46 <andy> ty josep
17:05:06 <andy> Sean: first two changes are
17:05:10 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:05:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
17:05:24 <clown> Zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:24 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:05:27 <shawn> Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using.
17:05:28 <andy> main one - sentence says (divert to sean)
17:05:34 <clown> Zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:34 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:44 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:05:54 <jcraig> q+ to mention privacy
17:06:24 <andy> andy+
17:06:37 <andy> andy q_
17:06:44 <shawn> Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
17:07:14 <jcraig> ack me
17:07:15 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to mention privacy
17:07:35 <jcraig> Andy: mentioned user needs
17:07:36 <andy> andy"user needs as well
17:09:20 <Caroline> Caroline has joined #indie-ui
17:10:24 <janina> q?
17:11:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
17:11:42 <shawn> SLH: Suggest this is clear overview for now. And when we know more, we can modify it
17:12:29 <clown> Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
17:12:35 <janina> q?
17:12:38 <Zakim> +??P24
17:12:39 <clown> repasted richardschwerdtfeger ^
17:12:53 <andy> discussion of whether user needs should be included in the User Context sentence
17:13:27 <Caroline> Zakim, ??P24 is Caroline
17:13:27 <Zakim> +Caroline; got it
17:14:08 <janina> q?
17:14:14 <janina> ack r
17:14:19 <andy> Accepted Caroline's mods
17:14:24 <clown> q+ to make one small change: user needs and preference.
17:14:34 <jcraig> ack jo
17:14:34 <Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to make one small change: user needs and preference.
17:14:55 <andy> Joseph: add preferences to user needs
17:15:57 <Caroline> Zakim, mute me
17:15:57 <Zakim> Caroline should now be muted
17:16:12 <andy> andy: "preferences" can be seen as trivial
17:16:23 <jcraig> q+ to express concern that making this interface too complicated could prevent adoption
17:18:22 <jcraig> Zakim, who is on the call?
17:18:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Janina, Shawn, hober, [Apple], Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Caroline (muted)
17:18:22 <janina> ack j
17:18:24 <Zakim> [Apple] has jcraig
17:18:24 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to express concern that making this interface too complicated could prevent adoption
17:21:30 <andy> jcraig:the distinction between needs and preferences makes it needlessly complex
17:22:23 <andy> decision:leave the wording as  User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
17:22:32 <janina> q?
17:23:17 <andy> should we change the word scroll to zoom in the example for the overview page
17:23:22 <clown> added scroll wheel to: For example, if a user wants to scroll down a page, they might use their finger on a touch screen, or click a scroll bar with a mouse, or use a scroll wheel, or say "scroll down" with a voice command. Indie UI will define a way for those different interactions to be translated into a simple event - scroll down.
17:23:27 <shawn> examples in http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/indieui
17:23:30 <andy> decision: leave as scroll
17:24:01 <andy> exit Sean with thanks
17:24:03 <jcraig> jc: difference between user's needs and preferences is trivial from an API perspective. No developer that actively ignores a "preference" will be persuaded to respect a "need." Ex. minimum font size.
17:24:07 <Zakim> -Shawn
17:24:08 <janina> zakim, next item
17:24:08 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012" taken up [from janina]
17:24:12 <andy> s/sean/shawm/
17:24:14 <jcraig> s/Sean/Shawn/
17:24:44 <jcraig> s/shawm/Shawn/
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17:25:52 <andy> TPAC: Gottfried Zimmermann has asked to come as observer and present
17:25:56 <andy> agreed
17:26:18 <andy> TPAC Agenda - get past use cases
17:27:00 <andy> janina: TPAC is precious time
17:27:17 <andy> janina: get through the use cases
17:27:30 <janina> q?
17:28:48 <andy> james: wants time to clarify how the event model works technically
17:29:48 <andy> james: last day - work thtourgh whats missing to get a PWD out asap after tpac
17:30:15 <andy> janina: in case we need to recharter after the web events and pointer events groups changes
17:30:37 <andy> jannina: need to show a continuing need for this geoup
17:30:46 <andy> s/geop/group/
17:31:23 <andy> janina: start thursday use cases, gottfriend Friday morning, Friday pm look for gaps
17:31:42 <andy> s/gpttfroend/gottfried/
17:32:07 <andy> s/ gottfriend/gottfried/
17:32:28 <andy> rich: focus on developer-dependent stuff
17:32:54 <andy> rich will lead use case walk-through
17:33:47 <andy> rich: avoid repetition of technical issues across use cases
17:34:05 <andy> james: some things in the use cases already covered by click
17:34:24 <andy> james: zoom, rotate as proposed as simplistic
17:35:52 <jcraig> jc: proposed as discrete notifications, but we need more for items as complex as zoom and rotate.
17:36:16 <andy> janina: james - can we have editors report pls
17:36:34 <andy> james: everything in action 5 been dealt with
17:36:46 <andy> going through Rich and Andy's proposal
17:36:53 <andy> will be done by tpac
17:38:04 <andy> james: michael has alerted us to a place for source files
17:38:17 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
17:38:25 <jcraig> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/tip/src/events.html
17:38:30 <jcraig> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/tip/src/user_context.html
17:38:34 <andy> janina: will put them in the resources isection in future agendas
17:39:10 <andy> no table of contents yet
17:39:30 <andy> michael - when you load a file it will generate a TC
17:40:10 <andy> michael/james - some problem to be straightened out - will fix
17:40:26 <andy> Use Case Walkthrough
17:40:45 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:41:03 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:41:14 <jcraig> s/ some problem/ ReSpec inclusion/
17:41:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_to_the_next_item_within_a_UI_component
17:42:08 <andy> Rich start at S6 - discussion of next item/previous item
17:42:36 <andy> Rich: could a command from the browser indicate direction
17:43:07 <andy> Rich: could be done with a parameter
17:43:09 <janina> q?
17:43:27 <andy> q+
17:43:31 <shepazu> q+
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17:44:26 <andy> Rich: component would receive and know the direction
17:45:38 <andy> james: next and previous should only be used when the AT knows which the next and previous are but that's only a nitification
17:45:38 <Zakim> +Cooper
17:46:23 <andy> james: next and prev should be separate from direction
17:46:34 <andy> left is not previous
17:46:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
17:47:18 <janina> ack d
17:47:22 <andy> q-
17:47:27 <janina> ack s
17:47:53 <andy> broad discussion of this
17:48:53 <andy> notification of start navigation and end navigation important
17:50:27 <andy> have logical previous and next
17:51:26 <andy> james even a grid can be done with changing focus events
17:52:52 <andy> rich: iOS does it worth key events
17:52:59 <andy> s/worth/with/
17:53:44 <andy> james: cannot pass navigation up to the web app because its too slow
17:54:11 <andy> james: except where there is no next item to move to (e.g. because it needs re-rendering)
17:56:13 <andy> james: in a next/prev event request the AT sends the notification to the web app then waits to see if its cancelled or nto
17:56:19 <andy> s/nto/not
17:57:21 <andy> james: that is slower than handling it locally and detecting the change of focus on the device
17:59:42 <andy> in other modalities we may not have a keypress
17:59:57 <andy> table this one for f2f
18:02:10 <Zakim> -hober
18:02:11 <andy> needs one hour at TPAC
18:02:40 <Zakim> -[Apple]
18:02:42 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
18:02:42 <Zakim> -Caroline
18:02:44 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:03:00 <jcraig> jcraig has left #indie-ui
18:03:03 <andy> zakim, bye
18:03:03 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Michael_Cooper, Janina, Shawn, hober, jcraig, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Caroline, Doug_Schepers, Cooper
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18:03:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:03:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
18:03:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
18:03:33 <andy> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-minutes.html andy
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