IRC log of indie-ui on 2012-10-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:56:22 [RRSAgent]
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16:56:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-irc
16:56:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 175
16:56:24 [Zakim]
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16:56:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be INDIE
16:56:26 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
16:56:27 [trackbot]
Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
16:56:27 [trackbot]
Date: 17 October 2012
16:56:31 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0012.html
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16:59:46 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()1:00PM has now started
16:59:52 [Zakim]
+??P1
16:59:56 [janina]
trackbot, start meeting
16:59:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 175
17:00:00 [shawn]
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17:00:00 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be INDIE
17:00:00 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()1:00PM already started
17:00:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
17:00:01 [trackbot]
Date: 17 October 2012
17:00:07 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P1 is Michael_Cooper
17:00:07 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper; got it
17:00:10 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
17:00:27 [Zakim]
+??P4
17:00:33 [janina]
zakim, ??P4 is Janina
17:00:33 [Zakim]
+Janina; got it
17:00:36 [Zakim]
+Shawn
17:00:39 [janina]
Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
17:00:39 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:00:39 [janina]
agenda+ IndieUI Overview Page http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0006.html
17:00:42 [janina]
agenda+ TPAC http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
17:00:44 [janina]
agenda+ Editor's Draft? https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/open
17:00:47 [janina]
agenda+ Use Cases Walk-Through; Continued http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:00:48 [andy]
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17:00:50 [janina]
agenda+ Be Done
17:00:58 [Zakim]
+[Apple]
17:01:06 [hober]
Zakim, Apple is me
17:01:06 [Zakim]
+hober; got it
17:01:25 [Zakim]
+[Apple]
17:01:27 [Zakim]
+??P15
17:01:39 [jcraig]
Zakim, [Apple] has jcraig
17:01:39 [Zakim]
+jcraig; got it
17:01:49 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P15 is Andy_Heath
17:01:49 [Zakim]
+Andy_Heath; got it
17:03:34 [janina]
scribe: andy
17:03:41 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
17:03:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "IndieUI Overview Page http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0006.html" taken up [from janina]
17:04:06 [andy]
Yanina: item item 1
17:04:12 [clown]
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17:04:15 [andy]
Sean didn't follow up with twekas
17:04:25 [jcraig]
s/Yanina/Janina/
17:04:38 [andy]
will review what the tweaks are
17:04:46 [andy]
ty josep
17:05:06 [andy]
Sean: first two changes are
17:05:10 [Zakim]
+[GVoice]
17:05:18 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
17:05:24 [clown]
Zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:24 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:05:27 [shawn]
Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using.
17:05:28 [andy]
main one - sentence says (divert to sean)
17:05:34 [clown]
Zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:34 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:44 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:05:54 [jcraig]
q+ to mention privacy
17:06:24 [andy]
andy+
17:06:37 [andy]
andy q_
17:06:44 [shawn]
Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
17:07:14 [jcraig]
ack me
17:07:15 [Zakim]
jcraig, you wanted to mention privacy
17:07:35 [jcraig]
Andy: mentioned user needs
17:07:36 [andy]
andy"user needs as well
17:09:20 [Caroline]
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17:10:24 [janina]
q?
17:11:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q+
17:11:42 [shawn]
SLH: Suggest this is clear overview for now. And when we know more, we can modify it
17:12:29 [clown]
Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
17:12:35 [janina]
q?
17:12:38 [Zakim]
+??P24
17:12:39 [clown]
repasted richardschwerdtfeger ^
17:12:53 [andy]
discussion of whether user needs should be included in the User Context sentence
17:13:27 [Caroline]
Zakim, ??P24 is Caroline
17:13:27 [Zakim]
+Caroline; got it
17:14:08 [janina]
q?
17:14:14 [janina]
ack r
17:14:19 [andy]
Accepted Caroline's mods
17:14:24 [clown]
q+ to make one small change: user needs and preference.
17:14:34 [jcraig]
ack jo
17:14:34 [Zakim]
Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to make one small change: user needs and preference.
17:14:55 [andy]
Joseph: add preferences to user needs
17:15:57 [Caroline]
Zakim, mute me
17:15:57 [Zakim]
Caroline should now be muted
17:16:12 [andy]
andy: "preferences" can be seen as trivial
17:16:23 [jcraig]
q+ to express concern that making this interface too complicated could prevent adoption
17:18:22 [jcraig]
Zakim, who is on the call?
17:18:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Janina, Shawn, hober, [Apple], Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Caroline (muted)
17:18:22 [janina]
ack j
17:18:24 [Zakim]
[Apple] has jcraig
17:18:24 [Zakim]
jcraig, you wanted to express concern that making this interface too complicated could prevent adoption
17:21:30 [andy]
jcraig:the distinction between needs and preferences makes it needlessly complex
17:22:23 [andy]
decision:leave the wording as User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
17:22:32 [janina]
q?
17:23:17 [andy]
should we change the word scroll to zoom in the example for the overview page
17:23:22 [clown]
added scroll wheel to: For example, if a user wants to scroll down a page, they might use their finger on a touch screen, or click a scroll bar with a mouse, or use a scroll wheel, or say "scroll down" with a voice command. Indie UI will define a way for those different interactions to be translated into a simple event - scroll down.
17:23:27 [shawn]
examples in http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/indieui
17:23:30 [andy]
decision: leave as scroll
17:24:01 [andy]
exit Sean with thanks
17:24:03 [jcraig]
jc: difference between user's needs and preferences is trivial from an API perspective. No developer that actively ignores a "preference" will be persuaded to respect a "need." Ex. minimum font size.
17:24:07 [Zakim]
-Shawn
17:24:08 [janina]
zakim, next item
17:24:08 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "TPAC http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012" taken up [from janina]
17:24:12 [andy]
s/sean/shawm/
17:24:14 [jcraig]
s/Sean/Shawn/
17:24:44 [jcraig]
s/shawm/Shawn/
17:24:57 [shawn]
shawn has left #indie-ui
17:25:52 [andy]
TPAC: Gottfried Zimmermann has asked to come as observer and present
17:25:56 [andy]
agreed
17:26:18 [andy]
TPAC Agenda - get past use cases
17:27:00 [andy]
janina: TPAC is precious time
17:27:17 [andy]
janina: get through the use cases
17:27:30 [janina]
q?
17:28:48 [andy]
james: wants time to clarify how the event model works technically
17:29:48 [andy]
james: last day - work thtourgh whats missing to get a PWD out asap after tpac
17:30:15 [andy]
janina: in case we need to recharter after the web events and pointer events groups changes
17:30:37 [andy]
jannina: need to show a continuing need for this geoup
17:30:46 [andy]
s/geop/group/
17:31:23 [andy]
janina: start thursday use cases, gottfriend Friday morning, Friday pm look for gaps
17:31:42 [andy]
s/gpttfroend/gottfried/
17:32:07 [andy]
s/ gottfriend/gottfried/
17:32:28 [andy]
rich: focus on developer-dependent stuff
17:32:54 [andy]
rich will lead use case walk-through
17:33:47 [andy]
rich: avoid repetition of technical issues across use cases
17:34:05 [andy]
james: some things in the use cases already covered by click
17:34:24 [andy]
james: zoom, rotate as proposed as simplistic
17:35:52 [jcraig]
jc: proposed as discrete notifications, but we need more for items as complex as zoom and rotate.
17:36:16 [andy]
janina: james - can we have editors report pls
17:36:34 [andy]
james: everything in action 5 been dealt with
17:36:46 [andy]
going through Rich and Andy's proposal
17:36:53 [andy]
will be done by tpac
17:38:04 [andy]
james: michael has alerted us to a place for source files
17:38:17 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
17:38:25 [jcraig]
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/tip/src/events.html
17:38:30 [jcraig]
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/tip/src/user_context.html
17:38:34 [andy]
janina: will put them in the resources isection in future agendas
17:39:10 [andy]
no table of contents yet
17:39:30 [andy]
michael - when you load a file it will generate a TC
17:40:10 [andy]
michael/james - some problem to be straightened out - will fix
17:40:26 [andy]
Use Case Walkthrough
17:40:45 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:41:03 [janina]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:41:14 [jcraig]
s/ some problem/ ReSpec inclusion/
17:41:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_to_the_next_item_within_a_UI_component
17:42:08 [andy]
Rich start at S6 - discussion of next item/previous item
17:42:36 [andy]
Rich: could a command from the browser indicate direction
17:43:07 [andy]
Rich: could be done with a parameter
17:43:09 [janina]
q?
17:43:27 [andy]
q+
17:43:31 [shepazu]
q+
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17:44:26 [andy]
Rich: component would receive and know the direction
17:45:38 [andy]
james: next and previous should only be used when the AT knows which the next and previous are but that's only a nitification
17:45:38 [Zakim]
+Cooper
17:46:23 [andy]
james: next and prev should be separate from direction
17:46:34 [andy]
left is not previous
17:46:42 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
17:47:18 [janina]
ack d
17:47:22 [andy]
q-
17:47:27 [janina]
ack s
17:47:53 [andy]
broad discussion of this
17:48:53 [andy]
notification of start navigation and end navigation important
17:50:27 [andy]
have logical previous and next
17:51:26 [andy]
james even a grid can be done with changing focus events
17:52:52 [andy]
rich: iOS does it worth key events
17:52:59 [andy]
s/worth/with/
17:53:44 [andy]
james: cannot pass navigation up to the web app because its too slow
17:54:11 [andy]
james: except where there is no next item to move to (e.g. because it needs re-rendering)
17:56:13 [andy]
james: in a next/prev event request the AT sends the notification to the web app then waits to see if its cancelled or nto
17:56:19 [andy]
s/nto/not
17:57:21 [andy]
james: that is slower than handling it locally and detecting the change of focus on the device
17:59:42 [andy]
in other modalities we may not have a keypress
17:59:57 [andy]
table this one for f2f
18:02:10 [Zakim]
-hober
18:02:11 [andy]
needs one hour at TPAC
18:02:40 [Zakim]
-[Apple]
18:02:42 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
18:02:42 [Zakim]
-Caroline
18:02:44 [Zakim]
-Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:03:00 [jcraig]
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18:03:03 [andy]
zakim, bye
18:03:03 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Michael_Cooper, Janina, Shawn, hober, jcraig, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Caroline, Doug_Schepers, Cooper
18:03:03 [Zakim]
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18:03:10 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:03:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
18:03:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, make log public
18:03:33 [andy]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-minutes.html andy
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