IRC log of indie-ui on 2012-10-17
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:56:22 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
- 16:56:22 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-irc
- 16:56:24 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs 175
- 16:56:24 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #indie-ui
- 16:56:26 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be INDIE
- 16:56:26 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
- 16:56:27 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
- 16:56:27 [trackbot]
- Date: 17 October 2012
- 16:56:31 [MichaelC]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0012.html
- 16:56:37 [Lachy]
- Lachy has joined #indie-ui
- 16:59:46 [Zakim]
- WAI_Indie()1:00PM has now started
- 16:59:52 [Zakim]
- +??P1
- 16:59:56 [janina]
- trackbot, start meeting
- 16:59:58 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs 175
- 17:00:00 [shawn]
- shawn has joined #indie-ui
- 17:00:00 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be INDIE
- 17:00:00 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()1:00PM already started
- 17:00:01 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
- 17:00:01 [trackbot]
- Date: 17 October 2012
- 17:00:07 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ??P1 is Michael_Cooper
- 17:00:07 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Cooper; got it
- 17:00:10 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 17:00:27 [Zakim]
- +??P4
- 17:00:33 [janina]
- zakim, ??P4 is Janina
- 17:00:33 [Zakim]
- +Janina; got it
- 17:00:36 [Zakim]
- +Shawn
- 17:00:39 [janina]
- Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
- 17:00:39 [janina]
- Chair: Janina_Sajka
- 17:00:39 [janina]
- agenda+ IndieUI Overview Page http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0006.html
- 17:00:42 [janina]
- agenda+ TPAC http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
- 17:00:44 [janina]
- agenda+ Editor's Draft? https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/open
- 17:00:47 [janina]
- agenda+ Use Cases Walk-Through; Continued http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
- 17:00:48 [andy]
- andy has joined #indie-ui
- 17:00:50 [jcraig]
- jcraig has joined #indie-ui
- 17:00:50 [janina]
- agenda+ Be Done
- 17:00:58 [Zakim]
- +[Apple]
- 17:01:06 [hober]
- Zakim, Apple is me
- 17:01:06 [Zakim]
- +hober; got it
- 17:01:25 [Zakim]
- +[Apple]
- 17:01:27 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 17:01:39 [jcraig]
- Zakim, [Apple] has jcraig
- 17:01:39 [Zakim]
- +jcraig; got it
- 17:01:49 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ??P15 is Andy_Heath
- 17:01:49 [Zakim]
- +Andy_Heath; got it
- 17:03:34 [janina]
- scribe: andy
- 17:03:41 [janina]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 17:03:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "IndieUI Overview Page http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0006.html" taken up [from janina]
- 17:04:06 [andy]
- Yanina: item item 1
- 17:04:12 [clown]
- clown has joined #indie-ui
- 17:04:15 [andy]
- Sean didn't follow up with twekas
- 17:04:25 [jcraig]
- s/Yanina/Janina/
- 17:04:38 [andy]
- will review what the tweaks are
- 17:04:46 [andy]
- ty josep
- 17:05:06 [andy]
- Sean: first two changes are
- 17:05:10 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 17:05:18 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
- 17:05:24 [clown]
- Zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:05:24 [Zakim]
- +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
- 17:05:27 [shawn]
- Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using.
- 17:05:28 [andy]
- main one - sentence says (divert to sean)
- 17:05:34 [clown]
- Zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:05:34 [Zakim]
- ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:05:44 [Zakim]
- +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 17:05:54 [jcraig]
- q+ to mention privacy
- 17:06:24 [andy]
- andy+
- 17:06:37 [andy]
- andy q_
- 17:06:44 [shawn]
- Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
- 17:07:14 [jcraig]
- ack me
- 17:07:15 [Zakim]
- jcraig, you wanted to mention privacy
- 17:07:35 [jcraig]
- Andy: mentioned user needs
- 17:07:36 [andy]
- andy"user needs as well
- 17:09:20 [Caroline]
- Caroline has joined #indie-ui
- 17:10:24 [janina]
- q?
- 17:11:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- q+
- 17:11:42 [shawn]
- SLH: Suggest this is clear overview for now. And when we know more, we can modify it
- 17:12:29 [clown]
- Indie UI: User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
- 17:12:35 [janina]
- q?
- 17:12:38 [Zakim]
- +??P24
- 17:12:39 [clown]
- repasted richardschwerdtfeger ^
- 17:12:53 [andy]
- discussion of whether user needs should be included in the User Context sentence
- 17:13:27 [Caroline]
- Zakim, ??P24 is Caroline
- 17:13:27 [Zakim]
- +Caroline; got it
- 17:14:08 [janina]
- q?
- 17:14:14 [janina]
- ack r
- 17:14:19 [andy]
- Accepted Caroline's mods
- 17:14:24 [clown]
- q+ to make one small change: user needs and preference.
- 17:14:34 [jcraig]
- ack jo
- 17:14:34 [Zakim]
- Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to make one small change: user needs and preference.
- 17:14:55 [andy]
- Joseph: add preferences to user needs
- 17:15:57 [Caroline]
- Zakim, mute me
- 17:15:57 [Zakim]
- Caroline should now be muted
- 17:16:12 [andy]
- andy: "preferences" can be seen as trivial
- 17:16:23 [jcraig]
- q+ to express concern that making this interface too complicated could prevent adoption
- 17:18:22 [jcraig]
- Zakim, who is on the call?
- 17:18:22 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Janina, Shawn, hober, [Apple], Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Caroline (muted)
- 17:18:22 [janina]
- ack j
- 17:18:24 [Zakim]
- [Apple] has jcraig
- 17:18:24 [Zakim]
- jcraig, you wanted to express concern that making this interface too complicated could prevent adoption
- 17:21:30 [andy]
- jcraig:the distinction between needs and preferences makes it needlessly complex
- 17:22:23 [andy]
- decision:leave the wording as User Context will allow a web application to get information about the configuration, settings, and assistive technologies that the user is using. This will facilitate a web application optimizing for specific user needs. There are significant privacy and security issues that need to be resolved.
- 17:22:32 [janina]
- q?
- 17:23:17 [andy]
- should we change the word scroll to zoom in the example for the overview page
- 17:23:22 [clown]
- added scroll wheel to: For example, if a user wants to scroll down a page, they might use their finger on a touch screen, or click a scroll bar with a mouse, or use a scroll wheel, or say "scroll down" with a voice command. Indie UI will define a way for those different interactions to be translated into a simple event - scroll down.
- 17:23:27 [shawn]
- examples in http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/indieui
- 17:23:30 [andy]
- decision: leave as scroll
- 17:24:01 [andy]
- exit Sean with thanks
- 17:24:03 [jcraig]
- jc: difference between user's needs and preferences is trivial from an API perspective. No developer that actively ignores a "preference" will be persuaded to respect a "need." Ex. minimum font size.
- 17:24:07 [Zakim]
- -Shawn
- 17:24:08 [janina]
- zakim, next item
- 17:24:08 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "TPAC http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012" taken up [from janina]
- 17:24:12 [andy]
- s/sean/shawm/
- 17:24:14 [jcraig]
- s/Sean/Shawn/
- 17:24:44 [jcraig]
- s/shawm/Shawn/
- 17:24:57 [shawn]
- shawn has left #indie-ui
- 17:25:52 [andy]
- TPAC: Gottfried Zimmermann has asked to come as observer and present
- 17:25:56 [andy]
- agreed
- 17:26:18 [andy]
- TPAC Agenda - get past use cases
- 17:27:00 [andy]
- janina: TPAC is precious time
- 17:27:17 [andy]
- janina: get through the use cases
- 17:27:30 [janina]
- q?
- 17:28:48 [andy]
- james: wants time to clarify how the event model works technically
- 17:29:48 [andy]
- james: last day - work thtourgh whats missing to get a PWD out asap after tpac
- 17:30:15 [andy]
- janina: in case we need to recharter after the web events and pointer events groups changes
- 17:30:37 [andy]
- jannina: need to show a continuing need for this geoup
- 17:30:46 [andy]
- s/geop/group/
- 17:31:23 [andy]
- janina: start thursday use cases, gottfriend Friday morning, Friday pm look for gaps
- 17:31:42 [andy]
- s/gpttfroend/gottfried/
- 17:32:07 [andy]
- s/ gottfriend/gottfried/
- 17:32:28 [andy]
- rich: focus on developer-dependent stuff
- 17:32:54 [andy]
- rich will lead use case walk-through
- 17:33:47 [andy]
- rich: avoid repetition of technical issues across use cases
- 17:34:05 [andy]
- james: some things in the use cases already covered by click
- 17:34:24 [andy]
- james: zoom, rotate as proposed as simplistic
- 17:35:52 [jcraig]
- jc: proposed as discrete notifications, but we need more for items as complex as zoom and rotate.
- 17:36:16 [andy]
- janina: james - can we have editors report pls
- 17:36:34 [andy]
- james: everything in action 5 been dealt with
- 17:36:46 [andy]
- going through Rich and Andy's proposal
- 17:36:53 [andy]
- will be done by tpac
- 17:38:04 [andy]
- james: michael has alerted us to a place for source files
- 17:38:17 [Zakim]
- +Doug_Schepers
- 17:38:25 [jcraig]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/tip/src/events.html
- 17:38:30 [jcraig]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/tip/src/user_context.html
- 17:38:34 [andy]
- janina: will put them in the resources isection in future agendas
- 17:39:10 [andy]
- no table of contents yet
- 17:39:30 [andy]
- michael - when you load a file it will generate a TC
- 17:40:10 [andy]
- michael/james - some problem to be straightened out - will fix
- 17:40:26 [andy]
- Use Case Walkthrough
- 17:40:45 [clown]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
- 17:41:03 [janina]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
- 17:41:14 [jcraig]
- s/ some problem/ ReSpec inclusion/
- 17:41:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_to_the_next_item_within_a_UI_component
- 17:42:08 [andy]
- Rich start at S6 - discussion of next item/previous item
- 17:42:36 [andy]
- Rich: could a command from the browser indicate direction
- 17:43:07 [andy]
- Rich: could be done with a parameter
- 17:43:09 [janina]
- q?
- 17:43:27 [andy]
- q+
- 17:43:31 [shepazu]
- q+
- 17:43:32 [smaug]
- smaug has joined #indie-ui
- 17:44:26 [andy]
- Rich: component would receive and know the direction
- 17:45:38 [andy]
- james: next and previous should only be used when the AT knows which the next and previous are but that's only a nitification
- 17:45:38 [Zakim]
- +Cooper
- 17:46:23 [andy]
- james: next and prev should be separate from direction
- 17:46:34 [andy]
- left is not previous
- 17:46:42 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- q?
- 17:47:18 [janina]
- ack d
- 17:47:22 [andy]
- q-
- 17:47:27 [janina]
- ack s
- 17:47:53 [andy]
- broad discussion of this
- 17:48:53 [andy]
- notification of start navigation and end navigation important
- 17:50:27 [andy]
- have logical previous and next
- 17:51:26 [andy]
- james even a grid can be done with changing focus events
- 17:52:52 [andy]
- rich: iOS does it worth key events
- 17:52:59 [andy]
- s/worth/with/
- 17:53:44 [andy]
- james: cannot pass navigation up to the web app because its too slow
- 17:54:11 [andy]
- james: except where there is no next item to move to (e.g. because it needs re-rendering)
- 17:56:13 [andy]
- james: in a next/prev event request the AT sends the notification to the web app then waits to see if its cancelled or nto
- 17:56:19 [andy]
- s/nto/not
- 17:57:21 [andy]
- james: that is slower than handling it locally and detecting the change of focus on the device
- 17:59:42 [andy]
- in other modalities we may not have a keypress
- 17:59:57 [andy]
- table this one for f2f
- 18:02:10 [Zakim]
- -hober
- 18:02:11 [andy]
- needs one hour at TPAC
- 18:02:40 [Zakim]
- -[Apple]
- 18:02:42 [Zakim]
- -Doug_Schepers
- 18:02:42 [Zakim]
- -Caroline
- 18:02:44 [Zakim]
- -Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:03:00 [jcraig]
- jcraig has left #indie-ui
- 18:03:03 [andy]
- zakim, bye
- 18:03:03 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Michael_Cooper, Janina, Shawn, hober, jcraig, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Caroline, Doug_Schepers, Cooper
- 18:03:03 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #indie-ui
- 18:03:10 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 18:03:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
- 18:03:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 18:03:33 [andy]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:03:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-indie-ui-minutes.html andy
- 18:05:52 [janina]
- janina has left #indie-ui
- 18:59:21 [clown]
- clown has joined #indie-ui
- 20:45:48 [shepazu]
- shepazu has joined #indie-ui
- 20:48:14 [smaug]
- smaug has joined #indie-ui
- 21:02:55 [clown]
- clown has left #indie-ui
- 21:58:10 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
- 23:43:36 [smaug]
- smaug has joined #indie-ui