IRC log of audio on 2012-10-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:55:55 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #audio
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-audio-irc
15:56:00 [ot]
Zakim, this will be Audio
15:56:00 [Zakim]
ok, ot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:08 [ot]
Meeting: Audio WG Teleconference
15:56:11 [ot]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012OctDec/0125.html
15:56:20 [ot]
Agenda+ Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec
15:56:28 [ot]
Agenda+ Web Audio API: AudioParam Automation
15:56:35 [ot]
Agenda+ Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming
15:56:43 [ot]
Chair: Olivier
15:57:59 [jernoble]
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15:59:37 [ot]
zakim, code?
15:59:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ot
15:59:43 [chris]
chris has joined #audio
16:00:29 [Zakim]
RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:00:37 [Zakim]
+??P38
16:00:41 [cwilso]
cwilso has joined #audio
16:00:43 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:00:44 [jernoble]
zakim, ??P38 is me
16:00:44 [Zakim]
+jernoble; got it
16:00:56 [ot]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:00:57 [Zakim]
+ot; got it
16:01:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.862.201.aaaa
16:01:52 [cwilso]
zakim, aaaa is me
16:01:53 [Zakim]
+cwilso; got it
16:02:22 [Zakim]
+??P18
16:02:23 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
16:02:27 [chris]
zakim: what is conference code?
16:02:29 [tmichel]
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16:02:59 [gcardoso]
zakim ??P18 is me
16:03:01 [ot]
zakim, ??P18 is gabriel
16:03:02 [Zakim]
+gabriel; got it
16:03:50 [chris]
anybody know the conference code?
16:03:55 [ot]
audio
16:03:57 [gcardoso]
28346
16:04:01 [ot]
yup
16:04:04 [chris]
thanks!
16:04:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.510.334.aabb
16:04:51 [ot]
zakim, aabb is crogers
16:04:51 [Zakim]
+crogers; got it
16:04:58 [Zakim]
+??P75
16:05:34 [ot]
agenda?
16:05:40 [tmichel]
zakim, ??P75 is me
16:05:40 [Zakim]
+tmichel; got it
16:06:03 [tmichel]
zakim, who is here ?
16:06:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jernoble, ot, cwilso, gabriel, Doug_Schepers, crogers, tmichel
16:06:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tmichel, cwilso, chris, jernoble, RRSAgent, Zakim, gcardoso, automata, colinbdclark, ot, shepazu, paul___irish, trackbot
16:06:13 [shepazu]
agenda+ reminding members to rejoin Audio WG
16:06:48 [Zakim]
-jernoble
16:07:28 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 1
16:07:28 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec" taken up [from ot]
16:07:35 [Zakim]
+??P87
16:07:45 [jernoble]
zakim, ??P87 is me
16:07:45 [Zakim]
+jernoble; got it
16:08:31 [tmichel]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/midi/specification.html
16:08:46 [ot]
CWilson: still work to do
16:08:56 [ot]
… but now the spec has a bit of intro, which was missing
16:09:03 [ot]
… not concerned about going to FPWD
16:09:33 [ot]
Olivier: no showstopper issue?
16:09:40 [ot]
CWilson: no
16:10:01 [ot]
CRogers: one of the things which is confusing, there isn't really much of an introduction
16:10:12 [ot]
CWilson: have you looked at it in the past week and half
16:10:23 [ot]
CRogers: intro section now is short - one sentence
16:11:43 [Zakim]
+gmandyam
16:11:43 [ot]
CRogers: not a showstopper
16:12:11 [ot]
… but even the structure is a little confusing, starts directly with getMIDIAccess
16:12:15 [gmandyam]
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16:12:25 [ot]
… would be good to start with consideration about security etc
16:12:56 [ot]
s/etc/security and privacy/
16:12:59 [shepazu]
q+
16:13:36 [ot]
CWilson: I can take another round explaining the character of the API in the intro
16:13:44 [ot]
… like the webaudio API, explain how it works
16:13:59 [ot]
… re security and privacy, there's some big disconnects and need more thoughts
16:14:11 [ot]
q+
16:14:18 [ot]
ack shep
16:14:55 [ot]
Doug: in general, FPWD can be quite sketchy
16:14:57 [gmandyam]
Giri Mandyam, Qualcomm Innovation Center, has joined
16:15:09 [ot]
… this one would be quite complete already
16:15:28 [ot]
… would benefit from having a little more explanation
16:15:36 [ot]
… expanding intro would be goo
16:15:43 [ot]
… as would some caveat in security section
16:16:05 [cwilso]
q+
16:16:12 [ot]
… but I think current draft probably sufficient for FPWD
16:16:18 [ot]
ack ot
16:17:20 [ot]
Olivier: would be good to publish before TPAC
16:17:25 [ot]
ack cw
16:17:47 [ot]
CWilson: we've had discussion internally about section for privacy/security
16:18:13 [ot]
… the whole design has implication about privacy
16:18:15 [shepazu]
q+
16:18:28 [ot]
… but e.g Java exposes such MIDI info without warning
16:18:54 [ot]
… hence "this may be a privacy concern" rather than "this is a privacy concern" or "you must pop a dialog"
16:19:02 [ot]
… happy to publish before TPAC
16:19:16 [ot]
… and could work on the two sections today
16:20:13 [cwilso]
q?
16:20:18 [cwilso]
ack shepazu
16:20:32 [ot]
Olivier: if we can do edits today, we can have a CfC and move to publish if no objection
16:20:45 [ot]
Doug: changes required are mostly editorial, not normative
16:20:49 [ot]
… and we can play with later
16:20:59 [ot]
… so we can resolve to publish as is, ask that you make the changes
16:21:26 [ot]
… about security/privacy, the draft should ack that we are still thinking about the implications, that the section is work in progress
16:22:03 [ot]
Doug: as side note, just because Java does thing in a specific way doesn't mean it's a good privacy model
16:22:20 [ot]
CWilson: agree, it just means this info has been exposed and we need to think about it
16:23:04 [ot]
CRogers: might be a difference between MIDI input and output
16:23:24 [ot]
no need to get permission for e.g joystick API
16:23:43 [ot]
CRogers: but for writing MIDI it would probably need permission
16:23:46 [shepazu]
q+
16:23:55 [ot]
ack d
16:23:57 [ot]
ack s
16:24:14 [ot]
Doug: could I control my home security/audio/lighting system? or even in a facility?
16:24:30 [ot]
CWilson: if you have a MIDI system hooked up that way
16:24:35 [ot]
… e.g stage control
16:25:07 [ot]
Doug: wondering if the scope is implicitly/explicitly mentioned
16:27:00 [ot]
[CWilson explains how you could plug in a whole MIDI system]
16:27:20 [ot]
Doug: given the focus on IoT, we should at some point try to look at that use case
16:28:09 [ot]
CWilson: there is a section about this, explaining the API gives you access to MIDI devices
16:28:16 [ot]
… what you do with them is up to you
16:29:35 [ot]
Olivier: may be worth mentioning that in the intro
16:29:54 [ot]
Doug: also, may be worth dispelling the notion that "MIDI is crappy audio playback"
16:30:12 [ot]
CRogers: explain that it has nothing to do with .mid files
16:30:19 [ot]
Doug: exactly right
16:31:35 [gmandyam]
+q
16:31:43 [ot]
ack g
16:32:18 [ot]
Giri: is a call for exclusion going to come with FPWD?
16:32:30 [ot]
Doug: yes, that will be the first opportunity for exclusion
16:32:45 [ot]
… which is why it's important to have most features in FPWD
16:34:22 [ot]
zakim, close agendum 2
16:34:22 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Web Audio API: AudioParam Automation, closed
16:34:23 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:34:23 [Zakim]
1. Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec [from ot]
16:34:33 [ot]
zakim, reopen agendum 2
16:34:33 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'reopen agendum 2', ot
16:34:40 [ot]
zakim, close agendum 1
16:34:40 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec, closed
16:34:41 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:34:41 [Zakim]
3. Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming [from ot]
16:34:51 [ot]
agenda?
16:35:01 [ot]
agenda+ Web Audio API: AudioParam Automation
16:35:03 [jussi]
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16:35:08 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 3
16:35:08 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming" taken up [from ot]
16:35:37 [ot]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17396
16:35:37 [ot]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17351
16:36:33 [Zakim]
+??P50
16:36:48 [ot]
zakim, ??P50 is Jussi
16:36:48 [Zakim]
+Jussi; got it
16:37:30 [ot]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17379
16:39:31 [ot]
Looking at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17396 AudioDestinationNode.numberOfChannels
16:39:42 [ot]
CRogers: we haven't defined the channel layout
16:39:57 [ot]
… we have a few, mono, stereo, quad etc
16:40:11 [ot]
… but devices can have unusual channel mappings
16:40:29 [ot]
… so automated downmixing doesn't make sense
16:40:46 [ot]
… you could take the first 2 and drop all the rest
16:41:01 [ot]
… would be better when we have implementations going beyond 2 channels
16:41:44 [ot]
… expecting that even for e.g mono smartphones, the audiocontext could still say 2, and the implementation would mix down to one
16:42:47 [ot]
Olivier: so do we want more than 2 channels in "v1"?
16:43:04 [ot]
CRogers: you can process large numbers of channels in the middle of the graph
16:43:17 [ot]
… at the minimum the representation should probably say stereo
16:44:19 [ot]
Olivier: that leads us to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17379
16:44:34 [ot]
CRogers: yes, we need to add something to describe the channel layout
16:44:47 [ot]
… we should expose that information through a channel layout attribute
16:45:01 [ot]
… so that developers can mix accordingly
16:46:40 [ot]
Olivier: any thought on how to describe the channel layout?
16:46:56 [ot]
CRogers: for example, CoreAudio has a way to get a list of channels and tag
16:47:19 [ot]
… but there is a simpler approach where typical setups are numbered
16:47:40 [ot]
… the approach with an array of channels and label for each one feels overkill ATM
16:48:02 [ot]
… could be a readonly value for the time being
16:48:58 [ot]
… has to be readonly since it maps the physical output
16:51:04 [ot]
Olivier: how would implementation deal with plugging a sound card with 16 channels
16:51:24 [ot]
CRogers: max number of channels would be 16, and there would be a constant for "undefined" or "not applicable" layout
16:51:58 [ot]
ACTION: CRogers to summarise channel layout discussion into Bug 17379
16:51:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-50 - Summarise channel layout discussion into Bug 17379 [on Chris Rogers - due 2012-10-24].
16:52:22 [ot]
zakim, close agendum 3
16:52:22 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming, closed
16:52:24 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:52:24 [Zakim]
4. reminding members to rejoin Audio WG [from shepazu]
16:52:37 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 4
16:52:37 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "reminding members to rejoin Audio WG" taken up [from shepazu]
16:53:10 [ot]
ACTION: Olivier to send reminder for group participants to re-join
16:53:10 [trackbot]
Sorry, ambiguous username (more than one match) - Olivier
16:53:10 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ot, folivier3)
16:53:32 [ot]
ACTION: OT to send reminder to send to all AC reps for group participants to re-join
16:53:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-51 - Send reminder to send to all AC reps for group participants to re-join [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2012-10-24].
16:54:13 [chrislowis]
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16:54:24 [gmandyam]
q+
16:54:36 [ot]
ack gm
16:55:03 [gmandyam]
q+
16:56:03 [ot]
Agenda+ AOB
16:56:05 [Zakim]
+??P10
16:56:15 [chrislowis]
Zakim: p10 is chrislowis
16:56:26 [ot]
Giri: there is a comment on recording media streams in GetUserMedia
16:56:48 [gcardoso]
zakim, ??P10 is chrislowis
16:56:48 [Zakim]
+chrislowis; got it
16:57:42 [gmandyam]
See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-capture/2012Oct/0066.html
16:57:45 [Zakim]
-gmandyam
16:58:27 [Zakim]
-cwilso
16:58:31 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
16:58:33 [Zakim]
-ot
16:58:33 [Zakim]
-Jussi
16:58:34 [Zakim]
-crogers
16:58:36 [Zakim]
-gabriel
16:58:43 [ot]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:58:45 [Zakim]
-chrislowis
16:58:54 [ot]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:58:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-audio-minutes.html ot
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