IRC log of audio on 2012-10-17
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:55:55 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #audio
- 15:55:55 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-audio-irc
- 15:56:00 [ot]
- Zakim, this will be Audio
- 15:56:00 [Zakim]
- ok, ot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
- 15:56:08 [ot]
- Meeting: Audio WG Teleconference
- 15:56:11 [ot]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012OctDec/0125.html
- 15:56:20 [ot]
- Agenda+ Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec
- 15:56:28 [ot]
- Agenda+ Web Audio API: AudioParam Automation
- 15:56:35 [ot]
- Agenda+ Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming
- 15:56:43 [ot]
- Chair: Olivier
- 15:57:59 [jernoble]
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- 15:59:37 [ot]
- zakim, code?
- 15:59:37 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ot
- 15:59:43 [chris]
- chris has joined #audio
- 16:00:29 [Zakim]
- RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
- 16:00:37 [Zakim]
- +??P38
- 16:00:41 [cwilso]
- cwilso has joined #audio
- 16:00:43 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:00:44 [jernoble]
- zakim, ??P38 is me
- 16:00:44 [Zakim]
- +jernoble; got it
- 16:00:56 [ot]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
- 16:00:57 [Zakim]
- +ot; got it
- 16:01:41 [Zakim]
- + +1.862.201.aaaa
- 16:01:52 [cwilso]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 16:01:53 [Zakim]
- +cwilso; got it
- 16:02:22 [Zakim]
- +??P18
- 16:02:23 [Zakim]
- +Doug_Schepers
- 16:02:27 [chris]
- zakim: what is conference code?
- 16:02:29 [tmichel]
- tmichel has joined #audio
- 16:02:59 [gcardoso]
- zakim ??P18 is me
- 16:03:01 [ot]
- zakim, ??P18 is gabriel
- 16:03:02 [Zakim]
- +gabriel; got it
- 16:03:50 [chris]
- anybody know the conference code?
- 16:03:55 [ot]
- audio
- 16:03:57 [gcardoso]
- 28346
- 16:04:01 [ot]
- yup
- 16:04:04 [chris]
- thanks!
- 16:04:38 [Zakim]
- + +1.510.334.aabb
- 16:04:51 [ot]
- zakim, aabb is crogers
- 16:04:51 [Zakim]
- +crogers; got it
- 16:04:58 [Zakim]
- +??P75
- 16:05:34 [ot]
- agenda?
- 16:05:40 [tmichel]
- zakim, ??P75 is me
- 16:05:40 [Zakim]
- +tmichel; got it
- 16:06:03 [tmichel]
- zakim, who is here ?
- 16:06:04 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see jernoble, ot, cwilso, gabriel, Doug_Schepers, crogers, tmichel
- 16:06:04 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see tmichel, cwilso, chris, jernoble, RRSAgent, Zakim, gcardoso, automata, colinbdclark, ot, shepazu, paul___irish, trackbot
- 16:06:13 [shepazu]
- agenda+ reminding members to rejoin Audio WG
- 16:06:48 [Zakim]
- -jernoble
- 16:07:28 [ot]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 16:07:28 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec" taken up [from ot]
- 16:07:35 [Zakim]
- +??P87
- 16:07:45 [jernoble]
- zakim, ??P87 is me
- 16:07:45 [Zakim]
- +jernoble; got it
- 16:08:31 [tmichel]
- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/midi/specification.html
- 16:08:46 [ot]
- CWilson: still work to do
- 16:08:56 [ot]
- … but now the spec has a bit of intro, which was missing
- 16:09:03 [ot]
- … not concerned about going to FPWD
- 16:09:33 [ot]
- Olivier: no showstopper issue?
- 16:09:40 [ot]
- CWilson: no
- 16:10:01 [ot]
- CRogers: one of the things which is confusing, there isn't really much of an introduction
- 16:10:12 [ot]
- CWilson: have you looked at it in the past week and half
- 16:10:23 [ot]
- CRogers: intro section now is short - one sentence
- 16:11:43 [Zakim]
- +gmandyam
- 16:11:43 [ot]
- CRogers: not a showstopper
- 16:12:11 [ot]
- … but even the structure is a little confusing, starts directly with getMIDIAccess
- 16:12:15 [gmandyam]
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- 16:12:25 [ot]
- … would be good to start with consideration about security etc
- 16:12:56 [ot]
- s/etc/security and privacy/
- 16:12:59 [shepazu]
- q+
- 16:13:36 [ot]
- CWilson: I can take another round explaining the character of the API in the intro
- 16:13:44 [ot]
- … like the webaudio API, explain how it works
- 16:13:59 [ot]
- … re security and privacy, there's some big disconnects and need more thoughts
- 16:14:11 [ot]
- q+
- 16:14:18 [ot]
- ack shep
- 16:14:55 [ot]
- Doug: in general, FPWD can be quite sketchy
- 16:14:57 [gmandyam]
- Giri Mandyam, Qualcomm Innovation Center, has joined
- 16:15:09 [ot]
- … this one would be quite complete already
- 16:15:28 [ot]
- … would benefit from having a little more explanation
- 16:15:36 [ot]
- … expanding intro would be goo
- 16:15:43 [ot]
- … as would some caveat in security section
- 16:16:05 [cwilso]
- q+
- 16:16:12 [ot]
- … but I think current draft probably sufficient for FPWD
- 16:16:18 [ot]
- ack ot
- 16:17:20 [ot]
- Olivier: would be good to publish before TPAC
- 16:17:25 [ot]
- ack cw
- 16:17:47 [ot]
- CWilson: we've had discussion internally about section for privacy/security
- 16:18:13 [ot]
- … the whole design has implication about privacy
- 16:18:15 [shepazu]
- q+
- 16:18:28 [ot]
- … but e.g Java exposes such MIDI info without warning
- 16:18:54 [ot]
- … hence "this may be a privacy concern" rather than "this is a privacy concern" or "you must pop a dialog"
- 16:19:02 [ot]
- … happy to publish before TPAC
- 16:19:16 [ot]
- … and could work on the two sections today
- 16:20:13 [cwilso]
- q?
- 16:20:18 [cwilso]
- ack shepazu
- 16:20:32 [ot]
- Olivier: if we can do edits today, we can have a CfC and move to publish if no objection
- 16:20:45 [ot]
- Doug: changes required are mostly editorial, not normative
- 16:20:49 [ot]
- … and we can play with later
- 16:20:59 [ot]
- … so we can resolve to publish as is, ask that you make the changes
- 16:21:26 [ot]
- … about security/privacy, the draft should ack that we are still thinking about the implications, that the section is work in progress
- 16:22:03 [ot]
- Doug: as side note, just because Java does thing in a specific way doesn't mean it's a good privacy model
- 16:22:20 [ot]
- CWilson: agree, it just means this info has been exposed and we need to think about it
- 16:23:04 [ot]
- CRogers: might be a difference between MIDI input and output
- 16:23:24 [ot]
- no need to get permission for e.g joystick API
- 16:23:43 [ot]
- CRogers: but for writing MIDI it would probably need permission
- 16:23:46 [shepazu]
- q+
- 16:23:55 [ot]
- ack d
- 16:23:57 [ot]
- ack s
- 16:24:14 [ot]
- Doug: could I control my home security/audio/lighting system? or even in a facility?
- 16:24:30 [ot]
- CWilson: if you have a MIDI system hooked up that way
- 16:24:35 [ot]
- … e.g stage control
- 16:25:07 [ot]
- Doug: wondering if the scope is implicitly/explicitly mentioned
- 16:27:00 [ot]
- [CWilson explains how you could plug in a whole MIDI system]
- 16:27:20 [ot]
- Doug: given the focus on IoT, we should at some point try to look at that use case
- 16:28:09 [ot]
- CWilson: there is a section about this, explaining the API gives you access to MIDI devices
- 16:28:16 [ot]
- … what you do with them is up to you
- 16:29:35 [ot]
- Olivier: may be worth mentioning that in the intro
- 16:29:54 [ot]
- Doug: also, may be worth dispelling the notion that "MIDI is crappy audio playback"
- 16:30:12 [ot]
- CRogers: explain that it has nothing to do with .mid files
- 16:30:19 [ot]
- Doug: exactly right
- 16:31:35 [gmandyam]
- +q
- 16:31:43 [ot]
- ack g
- 16:32:18 [ot]
- Giri: is a call for exclusion going to come with FPWD?
- 16:32:30 [ot]
- Doug: yes, that will be the first opportunity for exclusion
- 16:32:45 [ot]
- … which is why it's important to have most features in FPWD
- 16:34:22 [ot]
- zakim, close agendum 2
- 16:34:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, Web Audio API: AudioParam Automation, closed
- 16:34:23 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:34:23 [Zakim]
- 1. Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec [from ot]
- 16:34:33 [ot]
- zakim, reopen agendum 2
- 16:34:33 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'reopen agendum 2', ot
- 16:34:40 [ot]
- zakim, close agendum 1
- 16:34:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, Publishing FPWD of MIDI spec, closed
- 16:34:41 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:34:41 [Zakim]
- 3. Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming [from ot]
- 16:34:51 [ot]
- agenda?
- 16:35:01 [ot]
- agenda+ Web Audio API: AudioParam Automation
- 16:35:03 [jussi]
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- 16:35:08 [ot]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 16:35:08 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming" taken up [from ot]
- 16:35:37 [ot]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17396
- 16:35:37 [ot]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17351
- 16:36:33 [Zakim]
- +??P50
- 16:36:48 [ot]
- zakim, ??P50 is Jussi
- 16:36:48 [Zakim]
- +Jussi; got it
- 16:37:30 [ot]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17379
- 16:39:31 [ot]
- Looking at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17396 AudioDestinationNode.numberOfChannels
- 16:39:42 [ot]
- CRogers: we haven't defined the channel layout
- 16:39:57 [ot]
- … we have a few, mono, stereo, quad etc
- 16:40:11 [ot]
- … but devices can have unusual channel mappings
- 16:40:29 [ot]
- … so automated downmixing doesn't make sense
- 16:40:46 [ot]
- … you could take the first 2 and drop all the rest
- 16:41:01 [ot]
- … would be better when we have implementations going beyond 2 channels
- 16:41:44 [ot]
- … expecting that even for e.g mono smartphones, the audiocontext could still say 2, and the implementation would mix down to one
- 16:42:47 [ot]
- Olivier: so do we want more than 2 channels in "v1"?
- 16:43:04 [ot]
- CRogers: you can process large numbers of channels in the middle of the graph
- 16:43:17 [ot]
- … at the minimum the representation should probably say stereo
- 16:44:19 [ot]
- Olivier: that leads us to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17379
- 16:44:34 [ot]
- CRogers: yes, we need to add something to describe the channel layout
- 16:44:47 [ot]
- … we should expose that information through a channel layout attribute
- 16:45:01 [ot]
- … so that developers can mix accordingly
- 16:46:40 [ot]
- Olivier: any thought on how to describe the channel layout?
- 16:46:56 [ot]
- CRogers: for example, CoreAudio has a way to get a list of channels and tag
- 16:47:19 [ot]
- … but there is a simpler approach where typical setups are numbered
- 16:47:40 [ot]
- … the approach with an array of channels and label for each one feels overkill ATM
- 16:48:02 [ot]
- … could be a readonly value for the time being
- 16:48:58 [ot]
- … has to be readonly since it maps the physical output
- 16:51:04 [ot]
- Olivier: how would implementation deal with plugging a sound card with 16 channels
- 16:51:24 [ot]
- CRogers: max number of channels would be 16, and there would be a constant for "undefined" or "not applicable" layout
- 16:51:58 [ot]
- ACTION: CRogers to summarise channel layout discussion into Bug 17379
- 16:51:58 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-50 - Summarise channel layout discussion into Bug 17379 [on Chris Rogers - due 2012-10-24].
- 16:52:22 [ot]
- zakim, close agendum 3
- 16:52:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 3, Web Audio API: Channel handling / naming, closed
- 16:52:24 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:52:24 [Zakim]
- 4. reminding members to rejoin Audio WG [from shepazu]
- 16:52:37 [ot]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 16:52:37 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "reminding members to rejoin Audio WG" taken up [from shepazu]
- 16:53:10 [ot]
- ACTION: Olivier to send reminder for group participants to re-join
- 16:53:10 [trackbot]
- Sorry, ambiguous username (more than one match) - Olivier
- 16:53:10 [trackbot]
- Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ot, folivier3)
- 16:53:32 [ot]
- ACTION: OT to send reminder to send to all AC reps for group participants to re-join
- 16:53:32 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-51 - Send reminder to send to all AC reps for group participants to re-join [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2012-10-24].
- 16:54:13 [chrislowis]
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- 16:54:24 [gmandyam]
- q+
- 16:54:36 [ot]
- ack gm
- 16:55:03 [gmandyam]
- q+
- 16:56:03 [ot]
- Agenda+ AOB
- 16:56:05 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 16:56:15 [chrislowis]
- Zakim: p10 is chrislowis
- 16:56:26 [ot]
- Giri: there is a comment on recording media streams in GetUserMedia
- 16:56:48 [gcardoso]
- zakim, ??P10 is chrislowis
- 16:56:48 [Zakim]
- +chrislowis; got it
- 16:57:42 [gmandyam]
- See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-capture/2012Oct/0066.html
- 16:57:45 [Zakim]
- -gmandyam
- 16:58:27 [Zakim]
- -cwilso
- 16:58:31 [Zakim]
- -Doug_Schepers
- 16:58:33 [Zakim]
- -ot
- 16:58:33 [Zakim]
- -Jussi
- 16:58:34 [Zakim]
- -crogers
- 16:58:36 [Zakim]
- -gabriel
- 16:58:43 [ot]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 16:58:45 [Zakim]
- -chrislowis
- 16:58:54 [ot]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:58:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-audio-minutes.html ot
- 16:59:21 [gcardoso]
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