15:00:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:00:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-html-media-irc
15:00:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:00:02 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
15:00:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
15:00:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:05 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:00:05 <trackbot> Date: 09 October 2012
15:00:13 <adrianba> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:13 <Zakim> HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, adrianba
15:00:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, pal, adrianba, paulc, trackbot, matt
15:00:19 <adrianba> zakim, this is HTML_WG
15:00:24 <Zakim> ok, adrianba; that matches HTML_WG()11:00AM
15:00:26 <adrianba> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see markw, [Microsoft]
15:00:49 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc, adrianba
15:00:50 <matt> zakim, code?
15:00:58 <Zakim> +paulc, adrianba; got it
15:00:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 63342 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), matt
15:01:06 <Clarke> Clarke has joined #html-media
15:01:11 <Zakim> +??P19
15:01:14 <matt> zakim, ??p19 is me
15:01:14 <Zakim> +matt; got it
15:01:18 <matt> zakim, mute me
15:01:18 <Zakim> matt should now be muted
15:01:39 <Zakim> +Clarke
15:02:08 <adrianba> ScribeNick: adrianba
15:02:12 <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Bateman
15:02:15 <adrianba> Chair: Paul Cotton
15:02:24 <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Oct/0019.html
15:02:31 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #html-media
15:02:55 <adrianba> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see markw, [Microsoft], matt (muted), Clarke
15:02:57 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc, adrianba
15:03:27 <adrianba> Regrets+ John_Simmons
15:03:37 <Zakim> +pal
15:03:42 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:03:46 <adrianba> rrsagent, make logs public
15:04:29 <strobe> strobe has joined #html-media
15:05:25 <paulc> waves
15:05:29 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
15:05:50 <adrianba> TOPIC: Role call and introductions
15:05:58 <adrianba> paulc: done
15:06:04 <adrianba> TOPIC: Preview meeting minutes
15:06:11 <adrianba> http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-html-media-minutes.html
15:06:19 <adrianba> paulc: didn't see any comments on the minutes
15:06:35 <adrianba> TOPIC: Review of action items
15:06:42 <adrianba> paulc: none assigned to MSE work
15:06:51 <adrianba> TOPIC: TPAC meeting plans
15:07:05 <adrianba> paulc: wg meeting thur/fri nov 1/2 in lyon, france
15:07:11 <adrianba> ... same place as November 2010
15:07:21 <adrianba> ... confirmed we have the same two meeting rooms we had 2 years ago
15:07:33 <Zakim> + +1.303.503.aaaa
15:07:36 <Zakim> + +1.813.728.aabb
15:07:40 <adrianba> ... i want to confirm that the people on the call are okay with the general plan
15:07:51 <adrianba> ... that MSE and EME experts meet for 90mins to 2 hours at TPAC
15:08:10 <adrianba> ... having talked to some of the editors about this i want to suggest that we meet on thursday
15:08:30 <BobLund> zakim, +1.303.503.aaaa is me
15:08:30 <Zakim> +BobLund; got it
15:08:38 <adrianba> ... so that the editors can meet afterwards to discuss how to take actions as a result of the meeting
15:08:41 <Zakim> +Aaron_Colwell
15:08:42 <strobe> zakim, +1.813.728.aabb is me
15:08:42 <Zakim> +strobe; got it
15:09:33 <adrianba> ... and the goal would be to have enough discussion at TPAC to make sure we can do a CfC for a FPWD immediately after TPAC
15:09:51 <adrianba> ... we want to make sure we have the general discussion for both specs in the right direction
15:10:00 <adrianba> ... so that the group will be happy to go to FPWD
15:10:05 <adrianba> ... this doesn't mean every bug closed
15:10:15 <adrianba> ... but it means the scope and direction is well understood
15:10:23 <adrianba> ... comments?
15:10:46 <adrianba> ... chairs will build a wiki site for unconference meeting requests so my proposal is to request 90-120 mins for each of the media specs
15:11:08 <adrianba> ... in the past the HTML WG meeting session discusses the ideas at 9am on the first day
15:11:14 <adrianba> ... and the group discusses which to talk about
15:11:16 <adrianba> q?
15:11:33 <ddorwin> ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:11:40 <Zakim> +ddorwin
15:11:41 <adrianba> pal: will there be a conference bridge?
15:11:54 <adrianba> paulc: the rooms will have a bridge so we'll see if that is feasible
15:12:36 <adrianba> ... i want to warn you that there are 44 members and 40+ observers registered and the room is pretty large and even with the phone in the middle of the room it's not clear how audible to the meeting would be
15:12:47 <pal> thanks
15:12:51 <matt> zakim, unmute me
15:12:51 <Zakim> matt should no longer be muted
15:13:14 <adrianba> matt: when will we know what the agenda will be for that thursday?
15:13:22 <adrianba> paulc: at 9.30am on thursday
15:13:31 <adrianba> matt: so we should come in at 9am to show our support of the topics
15:13:35 <adrianba> paulc: yes
15:13:47 <adrianba> ... this is the model that we've done before and it worked well
15:14:11 <adrianba> ... we have one coordination request already so sometimes the chairs anchor the coordination requests when they involve another WG
15:14:28 <adrianba> ... but the rest of the sessions are determined by unconference
15:14:30 <matt> zakim, mute me
15:14:30 <Zakim> matt should now be muted
15:14:38 <adrianba> matt: i suspect that some people will be in other meetings too
15:14:47 <adrianba> paulc: the agenda will be set at 9am on thursday
15:15:03 <adrianba> TOPIC: Baseline documents
15:15:27 <adrianba> paulc: aaron had produced a draft on oct 1 that resolved 5 bugs and then on oct 8 that resolved 5 more
15:15:37 <adrianba> ... not planning to go through the list of bugs specifically
15:15:47 <adrianba> ... acknowledge that you made progress by cutting the bugs by 1/3
15:15:57 <adrianba> ... do you have anything specific to highlight?
15:16:28 <adrianba> acolwell: most are clarifications
15:16:30 <paulc> Latest update news is in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Oct/0024.html
15:17:04 <adrianba> ... seeking doesn't set things back into open so that you seeking doesn't require you to call endstream
15:17:05 <Zakim> -BobLund
15:17:38 <adrianba> ... you weren't allowed to call append in the ended state - now it will transition to open and allow the append to happen
15:17:55 <Zakim> +??P18
15:18:07 <adrianba> ... for example if the app determined it had some higher quality data it could append that
15:18:08 <matt> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:18:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see markw, [Microsoft], matt (muted), Clarke, pal, strobe, Aaron_Colwell, ddorwin, ??P18
15:18:11 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc, adrianba
15:18:15 <BobLund> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:18:15 <Zakim> +BobLund; got it
15:18:31 <adrianba> paulc: there are currently 19 bugs outstanding
15:18:41 <adrianba> ... most listed under agenda 6 and 7
15:18:48 <BobLund> zakim, mute me
15:18:48 <Zakim> BobLund should now be muted
15:19:09 <adrianba> paulc: i'd like to propose that we handle the next agenda item as follows
15:19:13 <acolwell> acolwell has joined #html-media
15:19:27 <adrianba> ... looking at the bugs, some of them i'd characterise as "hard" that we've been carrying for a few weeks
15:19:45 <adrianba> ... i haven't seen any significant progress on the bugs in agenda 6
15:19:58 <adrianba> ... high level question is how to get ready for TPAC sessions
15:20:13 <adrianba> ... especially for work items assigned to editors or others in the group
15:20:20 <adrianba> q+
15:20:51 <adrianba> acolwell: a bunch of things in section 6 are new features and have lower priority for me because trying to focus on clarifying existing behaviour before adding new stuff
15:21:02 <adrianba> ... that's why these haven't made as much progress
15:21:18 <adrianba> ... have started on remove because i think others can be specified using the remove method
15:21:34 <adrianba> ... the TS one is one that I need to continue to read the specs
15:21:50 <adrianba> paulc: remove is bug 18709
15:21:59 <adrianba> ... TS is bug 17094
15:23:28 <adrianba> adrianba: i
15:23:36 <adrianba> s/i/i'd like to propose that
15:23:51 <adrianba> ... the editors meet to triage the current bugs
15:23:58 <adrianba> ... and figure out the status and next action of each
15:24:06 <adrianba> ... so that in two weeks we can work on the TPAC agenda
15:24:27 <adrianba> ... and let people know to come to TPAC prepared to discuss concrete issues
15:24:38 <adrianba> ... and make actual progress on the things that have been blocked
15:24:45 <adrianba> acolwell: that sounds good to me
15:24:45 <adrianba> q?
15:24:49 <adrianba> ack adr
15:25:16 <adrianba> paulc: i had mail from mark about bug 18962 - allow appending with xhr
15:25:26 <adrianba> markw: i wanted to point out that there is some work in webapps
15:25:34 <adrianba> ... that is about adding a stream response to XHR
15:25:42 <adrianba> ... which allows the app to lazily access data received
15:25:51 <adrianba> ... so we should discuss if that might be a solution for this bug
15:26:15 <adrianba> ... and if so coordinate with webapps on this to make sure it addresses the requirements we have
15:26:29 <adrianba> paulc: webapps meet on mon/tue - will you be there?
15:26:41 <adrianba> q+
15:26:57 <adrianba> markw: i might need to go to Web & TV but will shuttle between them
15:27:01 <adrianba> ack adr
15:27:19 <matt> adrianba: The discussion in Web Apps is partly about the proposal that MS made for stream support for XHR.
15:27:45 <matt> adrianba: The broader discussion is about whether that's a good solution for this or if there's a need for something else.  This was mostly in the context of understanding what support there would be for chunked HTTP.
15:28:05 <matt> adrianba: I think the current proposal is to add at least the receive part of the MS proposal.  That's the last I saw, not sure if anything specific changed in the last few days.
15:28:11 <adrianba> paulc: mark does that help?
15:28:14 <adrianba> markw: yes
15:28:31 <adrianba> paulc: other bug on action 6 and 7 is bug 17002
15:28:41 <adrianba> ... this is SourceID to .id mapping
15:28:53 <adrianba> ... i asked about the status in the other media group
15:29:00 <adrianba> ... aaron followed up with some questions
15:29:05 <adrianba> ... and that thread is continuing
15:29:21 <paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Oct/0026.html
15:30:05 <adrianba> paulc: i think i'm going to skip to agenda 9 - any other business
15:30:08 <adrianba> q+
15:30:13 <pal> q+
15:30:21 <paulc> ack adrian
15:30:31 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18666
15:30:49 <adrianba> adrianba: this is HTMLMediaElement.seekable
15:31:45 <adrianba> acolwell: all seekable does is to be from 0 to the duration
15:31:58 <adrianba> ... so in the case of live, the duration would be positive infinity
15:32:12 <adrianba> ... wait, let me look at the text
15:33:01 <adrianba> ... in a live stream what will happen is if the duration is set to something other that +inf then seekable will be zero to the duration
15:33:12 <adrianba> ... otherwise it will be zero to the highest time in the source buffer
15:33:27 <adrianba> ... then the seekable will be set to the highest of what is in the buffer
15:33:33 <adrianba> ... so you can only seek to what is in the buffer
15:34:21 <adrianba> adrianba: does that mean that the seekable range will grow as the data is being buffered, say from a URL
15:34:25 <adrianba> acolwell: yes
15:34:42 <adrianba> adrianba: that answers my question
15:34:48 <adrianba> paulc: are thinking of reopening this?
15:35:26 <paulc> ack pal
15:35:27 <adrianba> adrianba: i don't expect to reopen this - solution sounds good
15:35:49 <adrianba> pal: question on process - if i have some minor questions on the spec - how should i ask them?
15:36:15 <adrianba> paulc: depending on how many you have, you might consider sending mail to the list with the list of questions
15:36:37 <adrianba> ... sometimes if the questions are complicated it might make sense to put one per email
15:36:45 <adrianba> ... then you can put the question in the subject
15:36:52 <adrianba> ... or you could open a bug
15:37:01 <adrianba> ... my preference is option 2
15:37:09 <adrianba> pal: thank you
15:37:30 <adrianba> paulc: i think option 2 is the best approach - you might get an answer to the first before you asked the second
15:37:39 <adrianba> paulc: any other business?
15:37:53 <adrianba> TOPIC: Chair and scribe for next meeting
15:38:00 <adrianba> paulc: i will chair, any volunteers for scribe?
15:38:05 <adrianba> ... not hearing any one
15:38:26 <adrianba> ... major item of discussion for next meeting will be the triage from the editors and preparing for the TPAC meeting
15:38:38 <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournment
15:38:38 <Zakim> -BobLund
15:38:44 <Zakim> -Clarke
15:38:50 <Zakim> -pal
15:38:51 <adrianba> paulc: bye everyone
15:38:52 <matt> zakim, drop me
15:38:52 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:38:52 <Zakim> -Aaron_Colwell
15:38:52 <Zakim> matt is being disconnected
15:38:53 <Zakim> -matt
15:38:54 <strobe> thanks
15:39:00 <Zakim> -markw
15:39:04 <adrianba> zakim, bye
15:39:04 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were markw, paulc, adrianba, matt, Clarke, pal, BobLund, Aaron_Colwell, strobe, ddorwin
15:39:04 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-media
15:39:06 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
17:06:46 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #html-media