IRC log of wcag2ict on 2012-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:57:57 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-wcag2ict-irc
- 13:57:59 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 13:57:59 [Zakim]
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- 13:58:01 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 2428
- 13:58:01 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
- 13:58:02 [trackbot]
- Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
- 13:58:02 [trackbot]
- Date: 18 September 2012
- 13:58:20 [Andi]
- chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
- 13:58:52 [Zakim]
- WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
- 13:59:00 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.272.aaaa
- 13:59:12 [Andi]
- regrets: Allen_Hoffman, Loïc_Martínez_Normand
- 13:59:43 [Zakim]
- +Mary_Jo_Mueller
- 13:59:44 [BBailey]
- zakim, aaaa is bbailey
- 13:59:44 [Zakim]
- +bbailey; got it
- 14:00:16 [Zakim]
- +Gregg
- 14:00:36 [Zakim]
- +Andi_Snow_Weaver
- 14:00:40 [greggvanderheiden]
- greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:00:41 [Mike]
- Mike has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:00:54 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 14:01:06 [Andi]
- zakim, ??P10 is Mike_Pluke
- 14:01:06 [Zakim]
- +Mike_Pluke; got it
- 14:01:15 [Judy]
- Judy has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:01:16 [korn]
- korn has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:01:17 [BBailey]
- zakim, bbailey is Bruce_Bailey
- 14:01:17 [Zakim]
- +Bruce_Bailey; got it
- 14:01:19 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 14:01:21 [Kiran]
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- 14:01:23 [Zakim]
- +[Oracle]
- 14:01:28 [korn]
- Zakim, Oracle has Peter_KOrn
- 14:01:28 [Zakim]
- +Peter_KOrn; got it
- 14:01:36 [Andi]
- zakim, [Microsoft] hs Alex_Li
- 14:01:36 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '[Microsoft] hs Alex_Li', Andi
- 14:01:39 [korn]
- Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
- 14:01:39 [Zakim]
- Peter_KOrn was already listed in [Oracle], korn
- 14:01:42 [alex]
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- 14:01:43 [Andi]
- zakim, [Microsoft] has Alex_Li
- 14:01:43 [Zakim]
- +Alex_Li; got it
- 14:01:54 [korn]
- Zakim, Peter_KOrn is Peter_Korn
- 14:01:54 [Zakim]
- sorry, korn, I do not recognize a party named 'Peter_KOrn'
- 14:01:59 [Andi]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:01:59 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Gregg, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Mike_Pluke, [Microsoft], [Oracle]
- 14:02:02 [Zakim]
- [Microsoft] has Alex_Li
- 14:02:02 [Zakim]
- [Oracle] has Peter_KOrn
- 14:02:27 [Zakim]
- +Kiran_Kaja
- 14:02:31 [BBailey]
- q+
- 14:02:46 [Zakim]
- +??P22
- 14:02:52 [shadi]
- zakim, ??p22 is me
- 14:02:52 [Zakim]
- +shadi; got it
- 14:03:24 [janina]
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- 14:03:26 [MaryJo]
- scribe: MaryJo
- 14:03:33 [Andi]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Sep/0089.html
- 14:03:36 [Zakim]
- +??P29
- 14:03:37 [Zakim]
- +Judy
- 14:03:39 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 14:03:40 [Zakim]
- I see nothing on the agenda
- 14:03:45 [janina]
- zakim, ??P29 is Janina_Sajka
- 14:03:45 [Zakim]
- +Janina_Sajka; got it
- 14:05:09 [MaryJo]
- topic: US Access Board News
- 14:05:55 [Judy]
- q+
- 14:06:12 [MaryJo]
- The board meets every other month. Would like WCAG2ICT work done by November for U.S. Access board meeting in January.
- 14:06:53 [Andi]
- ack bbailey
- 14:07:19 [Andi]
- ack judy
- 14:09:38 [Judy]
- agenda?
- 14:09:41 [MaryJo]
- Our team is shooting for beginning of October to complete WCAG2ICT content for M376 and will probably be complete enough for U.S. Access Board use.
- 14:10:18 [Andi]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Sep/0089.html
- 14:11:48 [MaryJo]
- topic: Note clarifying 'content' in non-web environment
- 14:13:44 [Andi]
- q+
- 14:13:46 [MaryJo]
- The definition of 'content' should make reference to 'user agent' and vice versa.
- 14:14:33 [MaryJo]
- There was a list of examples gathered for content for documents and for software..
- 14:14:56 [korn]
- q+
- 14:15:11 [Judy]
- [Judy clarified above on previous topic that the WCAG2ICT TF is aiming to publish an updated draft at the beginning of Oct; and the Access Board is free to point to that as needed, as an informative document.]
- 14:17:00 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 14:18:26 [MaryJo]
- WCAG2ICT uses the terms 'software' and 'electronic documents' which are not defined and we rely on these words.
- 14:18:27 [Zakim]
- -[Oracle]
- 14:18:34 [Zakim]
- +David_MacDonald
- 14:18:45 [Zakim]
- +[Oracle]
- 14:19:02 [korn]
- Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
- 14:19:02 [Zakim]
- +Peter_Korn; got it
- 14:19:42 [David]
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- 14:19:43 [BBailey]
- s/topic: US Access Board News/topic: U.S. Access Board 508 NPRM Status Update
- 14:20:07 [MaryJo]
- M376 instead refers to 'content' and 'software' alone. In M376 there are separate sections for 'content' and 'software.
- 14:23:00 [Andi]
- https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/1-perceivable/13-create-content-that-can-be-presented-in-different-ways/132-meaningful-sequence
- 14:23:38 [Andi]
- ack Andi
- 14:23:38 [MaryJo]
- In 1.3.2, we interpret this to apply to both content as well as the software UI.
- 14:25:25 [MaryJo]
- M376 says that content is only what is made available to the user through a user agent.
- 14:25:49 [Zakim]
- -shadi
- 14:26:02 [shadi]
- zakim, judy has shadi
- 14:26:02 [Zakim]
- +shadi; got it
- 14:27:12 [Judy]
- q?
- 14:30:21 [Andi]
- Here is what is in the minutes from September 3rd: content: information and sensory experience to be communicated to the user by means of ICT, including any structure, presentation, and interaction
- 14:30:25 [Andi]
- ack korn
- 14:31:20 [MaryJo]
- Concern is that it isn't clear when there is software doesn't have a distinctly loadable module to easily distinguish what is content. The user experience presented in the software is content.
- 14:32:40 [MaryJo]
- Content might be embedded in software or it may be separable from the software. The user agent may only have embedded content or may also be able to act upon spearable content.
- 14:33:50 [MaryJo]
- Outside of Web, the clarity of 'content' and 'user agent' isn't such a clear separation.
- 14:34:03 [Andi]
- ack gregg
- 14:38:23 [korn]
- q+
- 14:39:14 [Mike]
- Possible additional note: Software that provides a user agent contains all of the characteristics of content (information, sensory experience, structure, presentation and interactivity) and, all of the success criteria that refer to "content" can be applied to software that provides a user agent.
- 14:41:48 [Judy]
- q?
- 14:48:10 [MaryJo]
- Javascript is a program, and the interactivity is part of the program because you can't separate it out.
- 14:50:24 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 14:50:30 [Andi]
- ack korn
- 14:53:29 [MaryJo]
- We just need make sure that the broader categories are used so that the right requirements are still applied to cover its accessibility.
- 14:53:35 [Judy]
- q+
- 14:53:57 [Andi]
- ack judy
- 14:54:43 [Andi]
- ack gregg
- 14:55:03 [Andi]
- q+
- 14:55:04 [Mike]
- q+
- 14:56:59 [Zakim]
- -Bruce_Bailey
- 14:57:36 [Mike]
- +1
- 14:57:57 [Andi]
- q-
- 14:59:36 [David]
- q+
- 15:00:07 [MaryJo]
- We may just want to advise that if you don't know which to use ('content' or 'software'), then use 'software'.
- 15:00:15 [korn]
- q?
- 15:01:32 [Andi]
- ack david
- 15:02:54 [MaryJo]
- If something doesn't meet 'content' definition which means there is clearly a user agent, then 'software' definition should be applied.
- 15:03:32 [MaryJo]
- s/which means there is clearly a user agent/(meaning there is clearly a user agent)/
- 15:05:38 [alex]
- q+
- 15:06:17 [Andi]
- ack mike
- 15:06:19 [MaryJo]
- The action item team will continue to meet offline to clarify the words for the survey. They have clearly made progress.
- 15:07:11 [Andi]
- ack alex
- 15:08:11 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 15:08:11 [Zakim]
- I see nothing on the agenda
- 15:08:28 [MaryJo]
- topic: Comments on the WCAG2ICT draft
- 15:08:58 [Andi]
- https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/
- 15:09:10 [MaryJo]
- Everything is in there except for ICT and Microsoft comments. Mary Jo will finish up entering the comments.
- 15:09:36 [MaryJo]
- There are some themes. Some problems, like closed systems, just haven't been addressed yet.
- 15:09:59 [Andi]
- LC-2661: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2661
- 15:10:04 [MaryJo]
- s/addressed yet/addressed by our working group yet/
- 15:10:09 [Andi]
- LC-2672: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2672
- 15:10:18 [Andi]
- LC-2666: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2666
- 15:10:26 [Andi]
- LC-2656: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2656
- 15:10:27 [korn]
- q+
- 15:10:41 [Mike]
- q+
- 15:11:31 [Andi]
- ack korn
- 15:11:48 [MaryJo]
- We need to make clear more than we did that there are definitely additional requirements that are needed for software, closed products, etc. WCAG 2.0 was clearly not intended to be the full list of requirements for non-Web content.
- 15:11:56 [Andi]
- ack mike
- 15:13:46 [Andi]
- q+ greggvanderheiden
- 15:13:50 [Judy]
- q+
- 15:14:12 [Andi]
- ack judy
- 15:14:25 [Mike]
- q+
- 15:14:25 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 15:16:19 [Andi]
- ack gregg
- 15:16:23 [MaryJo]
- We could say that there are other standards that cover specific topics and formats, but we don't typically directly reference other standards in a technical repor. We could explore putting something more general on our landing page.
- 15:16:39 [MaryJo]
- s/repor/report/
- 15:18:07 [Judy]
- q+
- 15:19:33 [Andi]
- ack mike
- 15:19:53 [korn]
- q+
- 15:20:15 [Judy]
- q- later
- 15:20:49 [Andi]
- ack korn
- 15:20:58 [MaryJo]
- We shouldn't be saying that readers should refer to other standards that are unnamed, so wording should be carefully written.
- 15:22:19 [MaryJo]
- 171 was not written as a standard that could be enforced through regulation. It was designed as a collection of good things to do.
- 15:22:48 [korn]
- q+
- 15:24:32 [Andi]
- ack judy
- 15:25:15 [Andi]
- ack korn
- 15:25:19 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 15:28:18 [Zakim]
- -Andi_Snow_Weaver
- 15:28:19 [MaryJo]
- We really need people to start proposing resolutions for the comments. We need to be done in 2 weeks.
- 15:28:28 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 15:28:34 [Zakim]
- -Kiran_Kaja
- 15:28:51 [Zakim]
- -Mary_Jo_Mueller
- 15:29:40 [Zakim]
- -[Oracle]
- 15:29:48 [korn]
- korn has left #wcag2ict
- 15:29:52 [Zakim]
- -David_MacDonald
- 15:30:01 [Zakim]
- -Judy
- 15:30:03 [Zakim]
- -Gregg
- 15:30:18 [Zakim]
- -Janina_Sajka
- 15:30:23 [Zakim]
- -Mike_Pluke
- 15:30:24 [Zakim]
- WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
- 15:30:24 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.202.272.aaaa, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Gregg, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Mike_Pluke, Bruce_Bailey, Peter_KOrn, Alex_Li, Kiran_Kaja, shadi, Janina_Sajka, David_MacDonald
- 15:30:25 [janina]
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- 16:14:52 [greggvanderheiden]
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- 16:30:27 [Andi]
- present+: Judy_Brewer
- 17:40:33 [Zakim]
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- 18:03:02 [MaryJo]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:03:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
- 18:03:17 [MaryJo]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:03:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
- 18:03:37 [MaryJo]
- zakim, bye
- 19:22:48 [Mike]
- Mike has left #wcag2ict