13:57:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:57:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-wcag2ict-irc
13:57:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:57:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:58:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:02 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:58:02 <trackbot> Date: 18 September 2012
13:58:20 <Andi> chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:58:52 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:59:00 <Zakim> + +1.202.272.aaaa
13:59:12 <Andi> regrets: Allen_Hoffman, Loïc_Martínez_Normand
13:59:43 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
13:59:44 <BBailey> zakim, aaaa is bbailey
13:59:44 <Zakim> +bbailey; got it
14:00:16 <Zakim> +Gregg
14:00:36 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:00:40 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:41 <Mike> Mike has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:54 <Zakim> +??P10
14:01:06 <Andi> zakim, ??P10 is Mike_Pluke
14:01:06 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:01:15 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:16 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:17 <BBailey> zakim, bbailey is Bruce_Bailey
14:01:17 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey; got it
14:01:19 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:01:21 <Kiran> Kiran has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:23 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:01:28 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_KOrn
14:01:28 <Zakim> +Peter_KOrn; got it
14:01:36 <Andi> zakim, [Microsoft] hs Alex_Li
14:01:36 <Zakim> I don't understand '[Microsoft] hs Alex_Li', Andi
14:01:39 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:01:39 <Zakim> Peter_KOrn was already listed in [Oracle], korn
14:01:42 <alex> alex has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:43 <Andi> zakim, [Microsoft] has Alex_Li
14:01:43 <Zakim> +Alex_Li; got it
14:01:54 <korn> Zakim, Peter_KOrn is Peter_Korn
14:01:54 <Zakim> sorry, korn, I do not recognize a party named 'Peter_KOrn'
14:01:59 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Gregg, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Mike_Pluke, [Microsoft], [Oracle]
14:02:02 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Alex_Li
14:02:02 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_KOrn
14:02:27 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja
14:02:31 <BBailey> q+
14:02:46 <Zakim> +??P22
14:02:52 <shadi> zakim, ??p22 is me
14:02:52 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
14:03:24 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:26 <MaryJo> scribe: MaryJo
14:03:33 <Andi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Sep/0089.html
14:03:36 <Zakim> +??P29
14:03:37 <Zakim> +Judy
14:03:39 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
14:03:40 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:03:45 <janina> zakim, ??P29 is Janina_Sajka
14:03:45 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:05:09 <MaryJo> topic: US Access Board News
14:05:55 <Judy> q+
14:06:12 <MaryJo> The board meets every other month. Would like WCAG2ICT work done by November for U.S. Access board meeting in January.
14:06:53 <Andi> ack bbailey
14:07:19 <Andi> ack judy
14:09:38 <Judy> agenda?
14:09:41 <MaryJo> Our team is shooting for beginning of October to complete WCAG2ICT content for M376 and will probably be complete enough for U.S. Access Board use.
14:10:18 <Andi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Sep/0089.html
14:11:48 <MaryJo> topic: Note clarifying 'content' in non-web environment
14:13:44 <Andi> q+
14:13:46 <MaryJo> The definition of 'content' should make reference to 'user agent' and vice versa.
14:14:33 <MaryJo> There was a list of examples gathered for content for documents and for software..
14:14:56 <korn> q+
14:15:11 <Judy> [Judy clarified above on previous topic that the WCAG2ICT TF is aiming to publish an updated draft at the beginning of Oct; and the Access Board is free to point to that as needed, as an informative document.]
14:17:00 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:18:26 <MaryJo> WCAG2ICT uses the terms 'software' and 'electronic documents' which are not defined and we rely on these words.
14:18:27 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
14:18:34 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:18:45 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:19:02 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:19:02 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:19:42 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
14:19:43 <BBailey> s/topic: US Access Board News/topic: U.S. Access Board 508 NPRM Status Update
14:20:07 <MaryJo> M376 instead refers to 'content' and 'software' alone. In M376 there are separate sections for 'content' and 'software.
14:23:00 <Andi> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/1-perceivable/13-create-content-that-can-be-presented-in-different-ways/132-meaningful-sequence
14:23:38 <Andi> ack Andi
14:23:38 <MaryJo> In 1.3.2, we interpret this to apply to both content as well as the software UI.
14:25:25 <MaryJo> M376 says that content is only what is made available to the user through a user agent.
14:25:49 <Zakim> -shadi
14:26:02 <shadi> zakim, judy has shadi
14:26:02 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
14:27:12 <Judy> q?
14:30:21 <Andi> Here is what is in the minutes from September 3rd: content: information and sensory experience to be communicated to the user by means of ICT, including any structure, presentation, and interaction
14:30:25 <Andi> ack korn
14:31:20 <MaryJo> Concern is that it isn't clear when there is software doesn't have a distinctly loadable module to easily distinguish what is content. The user experience presented in the software is content.
14:32:40 <MaryJo> Content might be embedded in software or it may be separable from the software. The user agent may only have embedded content or may also be able to act upon spearable content.
14:33:50 <MaryJo> Outside of Web, the clarity of 'content' and 'user agent' isn't such a clear separation.
14:34:03 <Andi> ack gregg
14:38:23 <korn> q+
14:39:14 <Mike> Possible additional note: Software that provides a user agent contains all of the characteristics of content (information, sensory experience, structure, presentation and interactivity) and, all of the success criteria that refer to "content" can be applied to software that provides a user agent.
14:41:48 <Judy> q?
14:48:10 <MaryJo> Javascript is a program, and the interactivity is part of the program because you can't separate it out.
14:50:24 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:50:30 <Andi> ack korn
14:53:29 <MaryJo> We just need make sure that the broader categories are used so that the right requirements are still applied to cover its accessibility.
14:53:35 <Judy> q+
14:53:57 <Andi> ack judy
14:54:43 <Andi> ack gregg
14:55:03 <Andi> q+
14:55:04 <Mike> q+
14:56:59 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
14:57:36 <Mike> +1
14:57:57 <Andi> q-
14:59:36 <David> q+
15:00:07 <MaryJo> We may just want to advise that if you don't know which to use ('content' or 'software'), then use 'software'.
15:00:15 <korn> q?
15:01:32 <Andi> ack david
15:02:54 <MaryJo> If something doesn't meet 'content' definition which means there is clearly a user agent, then 'software' definition should be applied.
15:03:32 <MaryJo> s/which means there is clearly a user agent/(meaning there is clearly a user agent)/
15:05:38 <alex> q+
15:06:17 <Andi> ack mike
15:06:19 <MaryJo> The action item team will continue to meet offline to clarify the words for the survey.  They have clearly made progress.
15:07:11 <Andi> ack alex
15:08:11 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
15:08:11 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:08:28 <MaryJo> topic: Comments on the WCAG2ICT draft
15:08:58 <Andi> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/
15:09:10 <MaryJo> Everything is in there except for ICT and Microsoft comments.  Mary Jo will finish up entering the comments.
15:09:36 <MaryJo> There are some themes. Some problems, like closed systems, just haven't been addressed yet.
15:09:59 <Andi> LC-2661: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2661
15:10:04 <MaryJo> s/addressed yet/addressed by our working group yet/
15:10:09 <Andi> LC-2672: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2672
15:10:18 <Andi> LC-2666: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2666
15:10:26 <Andi> LC-2656: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/2656
15:10:27 <korn> q+
15:10:41 <Mike> q+
15:11:31 <Andi> ack korn
15:11:48 <MaryJo> We need to make clear more than we did that there are definitely additional requirements that are needed for software, closed products, etc.  WCAG 2.0 was clearly not intended to be the full list of requirements for non-Web content.
15:11:56 <Andi> ack mike
15:13:46 <Andi> q+ greggvanderheiden
15:13:50 <Judy> q+
15:14:12 <Andi> ack judy
15:14:25 <Mike> q+
15:14:25 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:16:19 <Andi> ack gregg
15:16:23 <MaryJo> We could say that there are other standards that cover specific topics and formats, but we don't typically directly reference other standards in a technical repor.  We could explore putting something more general on our landing page.
15:16:39 <MaryJo> s/repor/report/
15:18:07 <Judy> q+
15:19:33 <Andi> ack mike
15:19:53 <korn> q+
15:20:15 <Judy> q- later
15:20:49 <Andi> ack korn
15:20:58 <MaryJo> We shouldn't be saying that readers should refer to other standards that are unnamed, so wording should be carefully written.
15:22:19 <MaryJo> 171 was not written as a standard that could be enforced through regulation.  It was designed as a collection of good things to do.
15:22:48 <korn> q+
15:24:32 <Andi> ack judy
15:25:15 <Andi> ack korn
15:25:19 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:28:18 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:28:19 <MaryJo> We really need people to start proposing resolutions for the comments.  We need to be done in 2 weeks.
15:28:28 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:28:34 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:28:51 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:29:40 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
15:29:48 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
15:29:52 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:30:01 <Zakim> -Judy
15:30:03 <Zakim> -Gregg
15:30:18 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:30:23 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
15:30:24 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:30:24 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.202.272.aaaa, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Gregg, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Mike_Pluke, Bruce_Bailey, Peter_KOrn, Alex_Li, Kiran_Kaja, shadi, Janina_Sajka, David_MacDonald
15:30:25 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
16:14:52 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has left #wcag2ict
16:30:27 <Andi> present+: Judy_Brewer
17:40:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
18:03:02 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
18:03:17 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
18:03:37 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
19:22:48 <Mike> Mike has left #wcag2ict