16:10:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
16:10:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-aapi-irc
16:11:09 <Andi> rrsagent, make logs public
16:11:22 <Andi> rrsagent, make log world
16:11:32 <Andi> Scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
16:11:42 <Andi> ScribeNick: Andi
16:11:52 <Andi> Meeting: AAPI
16:12:03 <Andi> Chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
16:14:02 <Andi> topic: <input aria-required="true">
16:14:43 <Andi> CS: in HTML4, this will map to required; in HTML5, this will map to not required because HTML5 @required will override aria-requied
16:15:01 <Andi> DB: author error - Firefox will default to deleting the aria-required
16:15:12 <Andi> CS: different from behavior for checked
16:15:26 <Andi> CS: before HTML 5, the only way to get required is to use aria-required
16:15:50 <Andi> CS: but if these behave differently in HTML 5, it seems goofy
16:16:14 <Andi> DB: even for checked, we would go with aria
16:16:28 <Andi> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2012JulSep/0012.html
16:16:51 <Andi> CS: IE has implemented - aria-required overrides
16:17:10 <Andi> CS: HTML TF making decisions about interaction of ARIA and HTML5
16:18:21 <Andi> CS: compromise on checked because it already exists in HTML 4
16:19:27 <Andi> DB: ARIA has a lot of special cases, would like to simplify
16:19:48 <Andi> CS: that's why I made a general rule about Boolean attributes
16:20:04 <Andi> CS: think required is the only one that wasn't there in HTML 4
16:20:24 <Andi> DB: if ARIA is there, think we should assume there is a reason
16:20:40 <Andi> CS: if aria-checked="false" and a checked attribute ...
16:21:05 <Andi> DB: probably an author error.
16:22:53 <davidb> (discussion)
16:23:32 <davidb> s/deleting the aria-required/obeying the aria-required
16:28:55 <davidb> (more discussion about spec work happening in too many different places)
16:33:21 <Andi> CS: role note required to use aria attributes in HTML 5
16:33:31 <Andi> s/note/not/
16:34:23 <Andi> AS: do we put the missing rule in the UAIG in the rules above the state/property mapping table
16:34:48 <Andi> CS: don't think we should put it in the UAIG
16:35:40 <Andi> AS: seems weird to have a rule in the spec for which we will need 2 implementations but not have it in the UAIG
16:35:50 <Andi> DB: don't agree with the rule
16:36:26 <Andi> Global states and properties are supported on any element in the host language. However, authors MUST use a WAI-ARIA role on an element in order to use non-global states and properties on that element. When a role attribute is added to an element, the semantics and behavior of the element, including support for WAI-ARIA states and properties, are augmented or overridden by the role behavior. User 
16:36:26 <Andi> agents MUST ignore non-global states and properties used on an element without a WAI-ARIA role.
16:37:47 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #aapi
16:37:56 <richardschwerdtfe> can't get in
16:38:07 <richardschwerdtfe> says conference is full
16:38:14 <richardschwerdtfe> well, can you conference me in?
16:38:30 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:39:14 <richardschwerdtfe> ?
16:39:40 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
16:39:47 <davidb> oh i see thanks
16:39:54 <Zakim> -David_Bolter
16:39:55 <Zakim> Team_(aapi)16:05Z has ended
16:39:55 <Zakim> Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, David_Bolter
16:41:32 <davidb> richardschwerdtfe ^
16:46:14 <Andi> Global states and properties are supported on any element in the host language. However, authors MUST use a WAI-ARIA role on an element in order to use non-global states and properties on that element. When a role attribute is added to an element, the semantics and behavior of the element, including support for WAI-ARIA states and properties, are augmented or overridden by the role behavior. User 
16:46:14 <Andi> agents MUST ignore non-global states and properties used on an element without a WAI-ARIA role.
16:49:08 <Andi> Global states and properties are supported on any element in the host language. However, authors MUST use a WAI-ARIA role on an element in order to use non-global states and properties on that element. When a role attribute is added to an element, the semantics and behavior of the element, including support for WAI-ARIA states and properties, are augmented or overridden by the role behavior. User 
16:49:08 <Andi> agents MUST ignore non-global states and properties used on an element without a WAI-ARIA role. 
16:49:41 <Andi> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/host_languages#state_property_processing
16:53:05 <Andi> From December 2009: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-20091215/host_languages#state_property_processing
16:54:27 <Andi> in Feb 2009, we had very little info in the spec about conformance and host language: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-20090224/#conformance
16:58:10 <Andi> RS: in ARIA 1.1, role will not be required in order to use aria attributes
16:59:28 <Andi> RS: one way to get around this - say in UAIG that if an element that has a role that matches an aria role, it's equivalent to having assigned an ARIA role
17:00:15 <Andi> DB: difficult to explain ARIA because of special cases that make it complex
17:00:30 <Andi> DB: think we should say that if you have these attributes, we should expose them
17:00:51 <Andi> RS: but it's meaningless in some cases
17:01:02 <Andi> DB: can do the same thing with a custom control in Windows
17:01:33 <Andi> RS: can't create a validation tool that would address that
17:02:53 <Andi> CS: decided in HTML task force that for ARIA in HTML 5, if you have aria-requried, it will be honored regardless of whether the HTML 5 required attribute is there
17:03:16 <Andi> CS: rule is that for new Boolean attributes, their absence can't be interpreted to be false in all cases
17:04:08 <Andi> RS: ARIA CR requirement is HTML 4 implmentations, not HTML 5
17:04:18 <Andi> CS: IE doesn't treat them any differently
17:04:38 <Andi> RS: what do you do about things that didn't exist in HTML 4
17:04:45 <Andi> CS: try to use them if we know what they are
17:05:13 <Andi> RS: aria-required allowed only on certain elements in 1.0
17:08:09 <Andi> RS: think the best we can do for 1.0 in the UAIG: if the element has an implied host language semantic that matches an ARIA role, you treat it as equivalent to having the aria role applied.
17:09:25 <Andi> <input aria-required="true">
17:10:08 <Andi> CS: in HTML 5, because required is not there, it would default to false and would override aria-required
17:10:20 <Andi> CS: not reasonable because required is a new attribute
17:12:16 <Andi> CS: <input type=checkbox aria-checked="true">, in HTML 5 would be false because HTML attribute overrides aria attributes
17:12:44 <Andi> CS: want required to work differently because it is a new attribute
17:31:40 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
17:31:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-aapi-minutes.html Andi
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