<trackbot> Date: 11 May 2012
trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 11 May 2012
<scribe> Scribe: Sharron
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Web_Accessibility_Basics
Shawn: Thanks to Suzette and
Vicki for doing more work on this. Moved questions before the
paragrpahs, can we get some of the bigger picture issues?
... overall structure. What do people think of it, especially
the people section. Understand how people use the web section,
how do we feel about the new organization? Diversity of Users
vs Diversity of Use. Some questions remain about overall flow.
What do people think?
Sharron: Good strategy in short intro orientation leading to WAI documents.
Ian: Consistency of bullet points between the three people's stories.
Andrew: Could drop the detail there and lead people into the stories.
Suzette: I left it in becasue I thought the intro to AT was important. Can we at least leave in a mention of assistive technology?
RESOLUTION: For stories, detail sub bullets and change sentence to "To learn how these people use a computer and about other users with disabilities...follow the link."
Shawn: What about the amount of
stuff we have here. The idea was to keep it brief and link to
detail.
... is it enough, too much?
Liam: Like it, just enough information
Andrew: And well broken up with text and links.
Shawn: Let's look at next sub
section - older users, mobile users and more
... some is like biz case and some is people oriented. Is the
distribution right? Parts moved elsewhere?
... Suzette do you ahve a feel for proper organization?
Helle: What do we mean by "more"?
Shawn: In the first paragraph.
Andrew: Some of the ideas pulled from biz case.
Helle: Is that more users or more of other considerations?
Shawn: Yes, it is meant to be user-centered. maybe change to many otehr users, or more users?
<AndrewA> ... and others / ... and other users
Suzette: Could put other users first and narrow focus...
Shawn: Three points here - mobile
will get attention; older will get another group that is
interested in that; perhaps it needs to be in the
heading.
... mobile users, older users and social inclusion
Sharron: Like it
<LiamM> +1 Shawn's suggestion
Helle: Do we only want these three things? Do we feel like "social inclusion" covers everything like rural and all we want to include?
Shawn: It covers all the things we have listed, it seems to me.
Helle: Do we want to say somehing about second languages.
Andrew: It doesn't seem to gel with the topic, perhaps the term social inclusion should be integrated into the text.
Shawn: Which goes to Vicki's
point that perhaps this whole section needs to be in the
"People" section.
... if we move this section higher, it makes previous all about
disability and moves the enxt farther down in the reading
order.
Andrew: I am in favor of leaving it lower to keep initial-earlier focus on disability.
Sharron: +1
<LiamM> +1
<hbj> +1
RESOLUTION: Older Users/Mobile Users section to be left where it is so clearer focus on disability earlier AND change heading to Older Users, Mobile Users and Social Incusion AND Reorganize section accordingly AND tweek social inclusion paragraph to a focus on users.
Shawn: Go to first opening
sentence of that section.
... Suzette can you say a bit about the focus on people and
goals?
Suzette: I did try to keep it on
a social rather than a medical model.
... (reads "Using the Web has become an essential part of
everyday life including at work, school and leisure. People
with disabilities use the Web for the same reasons as everyone
else. Sometimes it may have additional benefits because the
content can be presented in a more accessible format."
Shawn: Thoughts...is this the right idea to introduce the section?
Liam: Yes
<AndrewA> +1
Liam: first two sentences are brillian and the third does not quite fit.
Shawn: Barriers can be overcome with technology or soemthing...
<shawn> ACTION: Shawn pull text from other docs that covers "Using the Web has become an essential part of everyday life including at work, school and leisure. People with disabilities use the Web for the same reasons as everyone else. Sometimes it may have additional benefits because the content can be presented in a more accessible format." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Pull text from other docs that covers "Using the Web has become an essential part of everyday life including at work, school and leisure. People with disabilities use the Web for the same reasons as everyone else. Sometimes it may have additional benefits because the content can be presented in a more accessible format." [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-05-18].
Ian: Perhaps to give soem concrete examples, like timing, text size...be specific about why it is an accessible format.
<shawn> ACTION: Shawn pull text from other docs that covers "Using the Web has become an essential part of everyday life including at work, school and leisure. People with disabilities use the Web for the same reasons as everyone else. Sometimes it may have additional benefits because the content can be presented in a more accessible format." and maybe list a few specific examples (see notes in minutes, [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action02]
<shawn> too)
<trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Pull text from other docs that covers "Using the Web has become an essential part of everyday life including at work, school and leisure. People with disabilities use the Web for the same reasons as everyone else. Sometimes it may have additional benefits because the content can be presented in a more accessible format." and maybe list a few specific examples (see notes in minutes, [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-05-18].
Liam: Remove the caveat "sometines it may...." becasue the fact is that it just does.
<shawn> trackbot, drop action 148
<trackbot> Sorry, shawn, I don't understand 'trackbot, drop action 148'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
<shawn> trackbot, close 148
<trackbot> Sorry, shawn, I don't understand 'trackbot, close 148'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
<AndrewA> can we reuse part of: "the impact of disability is radically changed on the Web because the Web removes barriers to communication and interaction that many people face in the physical world"
<LiamM> Better!
<suzette> Better agreed - that's what I wanted
Shawn: OK, from the top...looks
like next question is about "Accessibility Principles"
... What is here is a draft - does it need expansion,
reduction, etc. Think about it in relation to the rest of the
document. Remember that the resources linked here are really
really good. The idea is to make it very enticing to follow the
link.
Sharron: Why not just say - we strongly encourage to review excellent resources for more background.
Liam: Feels about right, good balance of brevity and clarity.
<shawn> ACTION: Shawn -- Accessibility Basics, Accessibility principles section -- make more explicity that these are great resources that you should read! [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - -- Accessibility Basics, Accessibility principles section -- make more explicity that these are great resources that you should read! [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-05-18].
Andrew: Jargon to say user agents, maybe expand to say browsers and assitive technology.
Shawn: It says for example so is not trying to be inclusive.
Andrew: Works with browsers and other tools (rather than AT)
Shawn: good, continuing to Big Picture
Sharron: Why is it the Big Picute (Essential Components)?
<hbj> yes
Shawn: Reason is that we were talking of other ideas?
Andrew: Big picture does not fit in the middle of a page.
Shawn: Is essential components too jargony
<hbj> +q
Helle: Essential components, doesn't it come from one of our documents?
Shawn: Yes and it is the name of the document we point to
Liam: Maybe add "The"
Helle: When you see it in context, you know, don't have to add "of accessibility"
<AndrewA> Aspects of web accessibility
Sharron: Aspects doen't convey the necessity of the parts
Shawn: Do we need to say more, add detail to people's roles?
Andrew: Don't mind adding application developers to remind people that it is more than static content.
Helle: Under tools, the order may
be illogical. Should authoring tools come first?
... What if you remove the term User Agent and just give the
examples?
Shawn: But the plus is to
introduce a term that we later link to.
... what do others think?
Helle: If they read the whole section they will understand.
Suzette: Shall we compare this with the alternative version at the end?
Shawn: We can go back at look at it.
Suzette: I am a bit uncomfortable with the structure.
Sharron: I agree that the structure seems inconsistant
Shawn: It is simpler, more
focused on Guidelines
... has people integrated within Guidelines and leaves out
users.
... what can we learn from each to make a better final
piece?
Suzette: Separation of them is a bit more sophisticated.
<shawn> ACTION: shawn - Accessibility Basics - "The essential components of web accessibility" section simplify see also http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/index.php?title=Web_Accessibility_Basics&oldid=648#.7B.40.40.5Banother_version_for_consideration.5D_Essential_components_-_.22the_big_picture.22.7D [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - - Accessibility Basics - "The essential components of web accessibility" section simplify see also http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/index.php?title=Web_Accessibility_Basics&oldid=648#.7B.40.40.5Banother_version_for_consideration.5D_Essential_components_-_.22the_big_picture.22.7D [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-05-18].
Sharron: Yes, in revised version, hard to follow connection between people ideas introduced in the top with the guidelines when they are presented at the end of the section.
Andrew: +1
<shawn> ACTION: shawn - Accessibility Basics - "The essential components of web accessibility" section add "apps" to content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-152 - - Accessibility Basics - "The essential components of web accessibility" section add "apps" to content [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-05-18].
Shawn: Anyone else going to work
on this?
... We'll get these changes made and be ready for full review
and calling it done soon.
Shawn: Table structure
<shawn> example: http://www.w3.org/community/wai-engage/wiki/Accessibility_Responsibility_Breakdown#Analysis
Andrew: The big general overview table scrolls off your screen. Headings scroll off.
Shawn: Can you take that to the WAI-Engage Community Group list for discussion.
Andrew: That the headings are links escaped me - I wondered where the other information went?
Shawn: Are you signed up yet? You may not need to be a member to send email
<AndrewA> ACTION: Andrew to send table structure and headings as links comments to WAI-Engage list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-153 - Send table structure and headings as links comments to WAI-Engage list [on Andrew Arch - due 2012-05-18].
Sharron: A couple of our folks went wrong and have not been able to get clearance to sign up.
<Zakim> hbj, you wanted to say I just signed in
Shawn: It is easy for those that have a W3C log-in. It is the new people who are getting lost.
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/community/wai-engage/ Join this Group
Liam: Could not join even with W3C credentials.
Helle: I did the same as Liam,
but did not realize that you must first Join the Group.
... took me about 2 hours to figure it out. You think you can
edit the wiki and then must figure out that first you must join
the group.
Andrew: I got caught out on that as well.
Helle: If you look at the tiny indicators there is info there, but it is not easy.
Shawn: We need to clarify and provide rationale for all of the requirements and next steps etc.
Jennifer: I would find fascinating if other Community Groups are having these problems?
Shawn: We are attracting people who do not already have W3C log-ins
Andrew: Seems that others like the Business Groups would have outside members as well.
Jennifer: Lead them to the Community Group page rather than the wiki.
Helle: And I did not realize that we were working on two compeltely separate wikis.
Shawn: In WAI-Engage wiki,
encouraging people to dump ideas in there. Would love for rough
ideas. The ARB is massive, well organized and well structured
and so can be intimidating.
... would like something as well that is rough and
unstructured.
Jennifer: What about the work that we have already done?
Shawn: While EO promotes specific documents, the Community Group is more ideas and a bit of anecdotes of what worked.
,,,maybe we need to change the title to "encouraging adoption"
Jennifer: Maybe what I will do is take an action to take a look at the EO page and pull anything from that and add what people did on Global Accessibility Awareness Day and add that.
<AndrewA> 'how you got the penny to drop' - http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/280900.html
<scribe> ACTION: Jennifer will look at the EO page and pull anything from that and add what people did on Global Accessibility Awareness Day and add useful ideas. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Will look at the EO page and pull anything from that and add what people did on Global Accessibility Awareness Day and add useful ideas. [on Jennifer Sutton - due 2012-05-18].
<shawn> tangent: GAAD Global Accessibility Awareness Day
Shawn: Any comments about what happened?
Sharron: Seemed good, got some press, wished it had been associated with WAI-Engage
<hbj> bye
Shawn: Maybe they can be
encouraged to bring it into the Community Group.
... maybe Jennifer you can add some reflections on things that
occured on GAAD and how they might be encouraged next year.
Jennifer: Once the 24-hour
presentation comes together that Leonie and Denis have
planned
... we might encourage them to plan within the Community
Group.
Shawn: Tips and tricks will be useful as well, be careful with statistics, etc
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/track/actions/open?sort=owner
Shawn: Reminder to look at group actions as well as personal ones.
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/contact
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/SP-design
<scribe> ACTION: Liam to review the link http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/SP-design and contact Shadi and Shawn for more info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/11-eo-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Review the link http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/SP-design and contact Shadi and Shawn for more info [on Liam McGee - due 2012-05-18].
<Zakim> Sylvie, you wanted to talk about my actions
Sylvie: I have finsihed the translation of Accessible Presnetations, sent for feedback to Denis. Waiting for the script.
Shawn: We can post and announce and put script later.
<suzette> bye
trackbot, end meeting
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