14:59:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:59:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-html-a11y-irc
14:59:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:58 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:58 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2012
15:00:04 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:00:35 <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:47 <Zakim> sorry, paulc, I don't know what conference this is
15:00:50 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:01:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, paulc, JF, janina, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:01:04 <janina> zakim, this will be html-a11y
15:01:20 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
15:01:32 <paulc> zakim, this will be HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:01:33 <Judy> zakim, ???
15:01:53 <JF> zakim, this will be #html-a11y
15:01:53 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, paulc
15:01:57 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Judy.
15:02:08 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
15:02:35 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, JF
15:02:56 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM already started
15:03:03 <Zakim> +Judy
15:03:06 <Zakim> +??P69
15:03:43 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:04:03 <LeifHSilli> LeifHSilli has joined #html-a11y
15:04:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P9, [Microsoft], John_Foliot, Judy, ??P69
15:04:33 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:04:34 <janina> zakim, ??P9 is Janina_Sajka
15:04:47 <paulc> zakim, you need more early morning coffee!
15:05:08 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
15:05:23 <JF> zakim, ??P69 is LeifHSilli
15:05:30 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:05:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see LeifHSilli, Judy, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, JF, janina, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:05:53 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:05:56 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:06:06 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:06:07 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:06:07 <janina> Scribe: Steve_Faulkner
15:06:07 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Text; Canvas; ARIA Mappings
15:06:07 <janina> agenda+ Issues Work; Timelines; Expectations; Issue-204 & Issue-30; Others?
15:06:09 <janina> agenda+ A11Y Participation at the HTML-WG F2F
15:06:11 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:06:13 <Zakim> + +44.117.929.aaaa
15:06:14 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:06:16 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:06:19 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:06:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you need more early morning coffee!', paulc
15:06:32 <janina> zakim, aaaa is Leonie
15:06:39 <JF> scribe: JF
15:06:44 <JF> zakim, take up item 1
15:06:56 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:07:02 <Zakim> +Mike
15:07:11 <Zakim> +LeifHSilli; got it
15:07:42 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:07:54 <JF> Rich: we be going to California for the F2F
15:08:32 <Zakim> +Leonie; got it
15:08:40 <JF> Judy: we need to narrow in on a time for time at the F2F for the canvas discussion
15:08:43 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Subteam Reports: Text; Canvas; ARIA Mappings" taken up [from janina]
15:09:30 <JF> Janina: we need to brainstorm about that
15:09:58 <paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Apr/0057.html
15:10:10 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
15:10:23 <JF> Paul: just sent out an email to TF archive regarding F2F - call for agenda items
15:10:32 <Stevef> here now
15:11:02 <Stevef> paul: put info for f2f on wiki in regards to taskforce matters
15:11:05 <Zakim> +??P21
15:11:16 <JF> Paul: part of the is a wiki for scheduling those types of meetings
15:11:18 <paulc> F2F agenda wiki: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/May2012Agenda 
15:11:40 <JF> Rich: will likely need 60 - 90 minutes to discuss the 2 approaches
15:12:19 <LeonieW> LeonieW has joined #html-a11y
15:12:39 <JF> Rich: there are some clear additional requirements beyond hit-testing - looks like full-blown paths like SVG
15:12:41 <Stevef> RS: for a canvas discussion, if right people are in room, 1-11/2 hrs, 2 approaches, Ians is heavier weight, does about the same thing for a11y, discuss 2 on table and discuss. Ian wrote chnages with extra requirements, paths in canvas like svg
15:12:49 <JF> scribe: Stevef
15:13:07 <Stevef> RS: will microsoft accept the additional stuff in Ians spec text?
15:13:35 <Stevef> Janina: imprtant to have in discussion, Ian h, ted c, frank O
15:14:05 <Stevef> RS: additional roles and labels info in ians proposal, but no indication of use cases
15:14:43 <Stevef> Judy: need ample time to discuss, get definitive direction, 
15:14:50 <Stevef> RS: so 2-3 hrs
15:15:04 <Stevef> janina: morning or afternoon session
15:15:34 <Judy> s/definitive direction/definitive direction, so that the approach doesn't get changed again while people are trying to build accessibility solutions on it./
15:16:06 <Stevef> RS: hopefully get consensed proposal, jonas from mozilla maybe maybe rob o'callahan
15:16:18 <Stevef> RS: jonas was supportive of hit testing
15:17:11 <paulc> FYI, Jonas Sicking has registered for WebApps and WebAppSec but NOT for HTML WG F2F.
15:17:18 <Stevef> JS: get everyone requirements on table, clear articulation, maybe gather info in advance, come to agreement about requirments from stakeholders
15:17:43 <Stevef> JS: rich available either thru/fri?
15:17:51 <Stevef> RS: need to pick a day
15:18:14 <Stevef> JS: frank wants 1 day not 2
15:19:14 <Stevef> RS: chnages to canvas more than a11y
15:19:29 <Stevef> RS: can live with either proposal
15:20:27 <Zakim> -Leonie
15:20:34 <Stevef> JF: read this and discussion below, re transcript etc http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120404#l-791
15:20:58 <Stevef> PC: thusday afternoon immediatley after lunch
15:21:11 <Stevef> PC: rich ask people to be there
15:22:29 <Stevef> Janina: bring it up in html wg call, who can put on wiki? rich?
15:25:02 <Stevef> Judy: text subteam met tues april 3rd working through pending issues, meta generator, longdesc getting back into incorrect guidance in HTML5, still additional co-ordination items: issue 204, timeline for aria 1.1 not completed with planned timeline for html5
15:27:04 <Stevef> Judy: noted some remaining work on 204 clarification needed, to align guidenaqce in html5/aria. discussed additional co-ordination on issue 203, static video, paused video. wnated to note didn't get into discussion, but deadline imminenet on 203, sam was asking a few questions
15:28:47 <Stevef> judy: questions was if longdesc is re-instated in spec will 203 be resolved? the details of how longdesc is resolved will effect it. 
15:29:19 <Stevef> JF: re-instate longdes as per HTML4, then new chnage proposal to extend longdesc
15:30:59 <Stevef> Paul: thought we were only about 203? deadline for 194 is today
15:32:18 <Stevef> Judy: more subteam report: meta name generator discussion, about updated chnage proposal, focus on info helpful to process stage, how 2 new bugs instersected with resolution startegy, ended up leif withdrew bugs for now
15:33:05 <Stevef> Judy: issue 30 longdesc - timeline and next steps, chairs intent to complete process on 204 then take up issue 30
15:34:31 <Stevef> Paul:204 has call for alkternate closes on 18th april and you can be sure that if we see a new chnage proposal will review quickly,
15:35:33 <Stevef> JS: taskforce will look at section 5.1.2 to make sure that whatever chnage proposal we provide will bring html5/aria/aria UA guide into concordance
15:36:32 <Stevef> paul: provided reveiw comments but didn't give deadline to make changes on reviews, will go to survey quickly as possible
15:36:52 <Stevef> judy: do not hold off, so we can get back to issue 30
15:37:36 <Stevef> paul: so hopefully we can get to decision on 204 and move onto issue 30 survey, expect to occur in May
15:38:53 <Stevef> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652635
15:40:48 <Judy> q+
15:41:55 <Stevef> q+
15:42:54 <Judy> ack ju
15:43:01 <Judy> ack st
15:44:53 <JF> +Q
15:45:21 <Stevef> RS: rich doesn't like the mozilla approach, when you do describedby to anchor, anchor does not have to be in vicinity of item being describedby, you also add additional authoring complexity, would rather inbuilt mechanism
15:46:15 <Stevef> RS: prefers tighter mechanism
15:46:15 <Judy> q+
15:47:17 <Stevef> RS: had meeting with d bolter, d mazzonis, s pfieffer agreed needed in context , adding in aria stepping over boundarys
15:48:10 <Stevef> JF: putting link offscreen? 
15:48:31 <Stevef> RS: trying to provide mainstream feature
15:48:47 <janina> q?
15:48:51 <janina> ack jf
15:48:52 <Stevef> RS: mozilla implementation is a hack
15:48:55 <LeifHSilli> http://malform.no/blog/an-aria-for-long-description-links
15:49:02 <janina> ack l
15:49:58 <Stevef> leif: wrote blog post would like feedback
15:50:37 <richardschwerdtfe> q+
15:50:39 <Stevef> judy: concerened that there will be infinite number of design approaches
15:50:42 <Stevef> q+
15:51:01 <Judy> ack ju
15:51:42 <janina> ack r
15:52:21 <Stevef> RS: if we are going to do it in non aria attribute, why would you not take longdesc and use it on all elements, its not well defined so improve it
15:53:14 <LeifHSilli> must leave
15:53:17 <Zakim> -LeifHSilli
15:53:19 <Stevef> JS: at very least will need to be added to video
15:54:20 <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#exclude_elements
15:55:46 <Stevef> JS: still not happy with current langauge around hidden in the UA guide
15:58:41 <Stevef> JS: 1 more item; issue 194 now has 2 proposals new proposal seems to have merit, please come up to speed on the various proposals and if we as a taskforce support any particular proposal
15:59:21 <Stevef> JF: ted has done fair amount of investigation, if we can get browsers to implement what he is proposing thats the goal
15:59:55 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:00:03 <Zakim> -Mike
16:00:05 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:00:06 <Zakim> -??P21
16:00:09 <Zakim> -Judy
16:00:13 <janina> zakim, bye
16:00:13 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, Judy, paulc, Janina_Sajka, +44.117.929.aaaa, Mike, LeifHSilli, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Leonie
16:00:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:00:21 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
16:00:34 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
16:00:41 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
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