IRC log of swcg on 2012-03-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:02:14 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #swcg
12:02:14 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-swcg-irc
12:02:16 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
12:02:16 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #swcg
12:02:18 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 7924
12:02:18 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see SW_CG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 58 minutes
12:02:19 [trackbot]: Meeting: Semantic Web Coordination Group Teleconference
12:02:19 [trackbot]: Date: 21 March 2012
12:02:22 [davidwood]: Ivan, "The conference is restricted at this time"
12:02:28 [ivan]: Chair: Ivan
12:02:35 [ivan]: Regrets: Luc, Paul
12:02:42 [ivan]: ????
12:02:50 [ivan]: the conference is in about an hour
12:03:15 [davidwood]: Aren't we going to meet on the same line for the RDF chairs call?
12:03:29 [ivan]: yes, but after the CG call!
12:04:00 [davidwood]: Err, you said in your email "I think we agreed that we would have a call before the WG call tomorrow. Are we all o.k. with it?"
12:04:11 [davidwood]: I have a conflict after the CG call...
12:04:14 [ivan]: WG=Working Group
12:04:18 [ivan]: CG=Coordination Group
12:04:20 [ivan]: :-)
12:04:20 [davidwood]: Ah
12:04:39 [davidwood]: My mistake. Sorry. I'll see what I can do about the conflict.
12:52:00 [fsasaki]: fsasaki has joined #swcg
12:53:39 [tbaker]: tbaker has joined #swcg
12:57:24 [LeeF]: LeeF has joined #swcg
12:59:19 [ivan]: zakim, dial ivan-voip
12:59:19 [Zakim]: ok, ivan; the call is being made
12:59:20 [Zakim]: SW_CG()9:00AM has now started
12:59:21 [Zakim]: +Ivan
12:59:50 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
13:00:30 [danbri]: danbri has joined #swcg
13:00:33 [Zakim]: +LeeF
13:00:48 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
13:00:58 [bhyland]: bhyland has joined #swcg
13:01:17 [tbaker]: zakim, TomB is really tbaker
13:01:17 [Zakim]: +tbaker; got it
13:01:24 [ivan]: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/FED403CF-5CE8-41C2-AC31-DDA82FC90170@w3.org Agenda call
13:01:27 [Zakim]: +bhyland
13:02:01 [ivan]: scribenick: bhyland
13:02:06 [ivan]: Scribe: Bernadette
13:02:07 [Zakim]: +George
13:02:08 [davidwood]: Zakim, I am with bhyland
13:02:08 [Zakim]: +davidwood; got it
13:02:21 [George]: George has joined #swcg
13:02:38 [danbri]: timezone's almost got me! dialing
13:02:41 [danbri]: s/'//
13:03:23 [Zakim]: +??P14
13:03:27 [danbri]: zakim, ??P14 is danbri
13:03:27 [Zakim]: +danbri; got it
13:05:25 [LeeF]: true!
13:06:19 [ivan]: zakim, who is here?
13:06:19 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Ivan, fsasaki (muted), LeeF, tbaker, bhyland, George, danbri
13:06:22 [Zakim]: bhyland has davidwood
13:06:41 [bhyland]: Quick intros before meeting start ...
13:08:34 [danbri]: (I chair SWIG aka www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/ )
13:08:41 [ivan]: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/07-swcg-minutes.html -> last minutes
13:09:12 [bhyland]: Lee Feigenbaum (SPARQL), Tom Baker (Library … please fill in Tom), Bernadette Hyland (Gov LD WG), Dave Wood (RDF WG), George Thomas (Gov LD WG) and Dan Brickley (SWIG) and Felix Sasaki (DSKI AI, co-chair Multilingual WG)
13:09:26 [bhyland]: Accepted: Minutes from two weeks ago
13:09:46 [bhyland]: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/07-swcg-minutes.html
13:09:50 [fsasaki]: S/DSKI AI/DFKI/
13:09:51 [danbri]: tbaker, I was asked "RT @prototypo: Why does the #SchemaOrg site still fail to mention #RDFa positively after search engines agreed to support it? // CC: @danbri"
13:10:03 [tbaker]: Tom Baker: co-chair Semantic Web Deployment WG, and Library Linked Data Incubator Group
13:10:18 [tbaker]: s/co-chair/former co-chair/
13:10:29 [bhyland]: Congratulations to RDFa 1.1 is in CR, see blogpost on this http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/03/13/rdfa-1-1-core-rdfa-lite-and-xhtmlrdfa-published-as-candidate-recommendations/
13:11:32 [bhyland]: Topic: I18N and SW
13:12:02 [bhyland]: … Ivan and Felix recently at a EU workshop together and there are issues/work that Ivan wanted Felix to appraise the SWCG about
13:12:07 [fsasaki]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-semweb-cg/2012Mar/0022.html
13:14:10 [bhyland]: fsasaki: Described the diverse community & stakeholders in the multilingual efforts. More and more Linked Open Data being used, e.g., WordNet
13:14:51 [bhyland]: … Language technology can be used to link lexicons, conceptual models. Helps to develop/widen reach of LOD.
13:15:39 [bhyland]: … Can help to connect sem web vocabs.
13:15:45 [bhyland]: … "The localization industry has more and more content to be translated in
13:15:45 [bhyland]: more and more languages on the Web. Resources provided as LOD are seen as
13:15:45 [bhyland]: key to make this happen."
13:16:40 [bhyland]: How to make this concrete?
13:16:58 [bhyland]: … Formation of the MultilingualWeb-LT working group
13:16:58 [bhyland]: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/
13:16:58 [bhyland]: https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=53116&public=1
13:16:58 [bhyland]: which encompasses participants from all above areas. The goal of this group
13:16:58 [bhyland]: is very specific, see the charter
13:17:00 [bhyland]: http://www.w3.org/2011/12/mlw-lt-charter
13:18:15 [bhyland]: Goals include: defining metadata that helps language technology and localization of Web
13:18:15 [bhyland]: content. "Web content" has a focus on HTML5
13:19:31 [bhyland]: … Reaching across content types is key. "The group wants to reach out to other areas of content, like XML content from which HTML is generated"
13:20:09 [ivan]: -> http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/ Ontolex community group
13:20:17 [bhyland]: fsaski described: The Ontolex community group
13:20:17 [bhyland]: http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/
13:20:17 [bhyland]: Is working on a specific type of resource and its representation using
13:20:17 [bhyland]: ontologies: lexica.
13:21:31 [bhyland]: fsasaki described specific things we might do working with the W3C ...
13:21:42 [bhyland]: 1): discuss venues where the SW and the MLW community can meet
13:21:42 [bhyland]: and work on the relation between SW and MLW.
13:22:16 [bhyland]: Suggested: the MLW-LT workshop
13:22:16 [bhyland]: 11-13 June in Dublin.
13:22:45 [bhyland]: 2): Work on how to apply the MLW-LT metadata to RDF.
13:24:09 [bhyland]: RDFa moving ahead very fast and fasaski would like to discuss how to bring metadata for MLW
13:24:42 [bhyland]: Also related is provanance work … "work on whether the outcome of the provenance WG can be
13:24:42 [bhyland]: used for what the localization industry needs."
13:25:11 [bhyland]: … Automatic linked entity annotation
13:25:38 [bhyland]: "work on relation between schema.org vocabulary and a to be
13:25:38 [bhyland]: created vocabulary for automatic named entity annotation, see
13:25:38 [bhyland]: https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/3
13:26:04 [bhyland]: Concrete next step is to have involvement with Ontolex community group ...
13:26:19 [ivan]: q?
13:27:17 [bhyland]: Discussion to support fsasaki's proposed work in support of multi-lingual Web community
13:27:34 [bhyland]: Dave: Do you require any changes to RDF to make this work?
13:28:06 [bhyland]: fasasaki: See details in my email subject: "MultilingualWeb community and Semantic Web (Re: Agenda for the meeting on 2012-03-21"
13:29:00 [bhyland]: fsasaki made some suggestions. Davidwood acknowledged requests however said the group is not currently chartered to do some things fsasaki suggested ...
13:29:26 [bhyland]: Davidwood: there are some things that are possible and still within charter …
13:30:03 [bhyland]: ivan: Discussion within the RDF WG re: XML literals …
13:31:05 [bhyland]: ivan: Suggested a path forward using XML literals and attributes to achieve some of the goals of the MLW community ...
13:31:34 [bhyland]: ivan: We don't yet have consensus, but we have some ideas that may work ...
13:32:41 [bhyland]: fsasaki: MLW people are also talking to people in the HTML5 community
13:33:53 [bhyland]: ivan: suggested possible 'joint task force' with 3 people from each RDF WG & MLW community ...
13:35:00 [bhyland]: davidwood: Before suggesting joint task force, it would be better to outline why the current standard doesn't work for MLW community … propose issues with XML literal and/or propose an HTML5 literal ...
13:35:57 [ivan]: q+
13:36:26 [bhyland]: fsasaki: We are developing a solution XML and HTML solution … what gets into RDF is less important (scribe questions if she caught that correctly...)
13:36:43 [bhyland]: q?
13:37:55 [bhyland]: davidwood: Described status of RDF WG vis a vis HTML5 literal. He requested fsasaki describe & submit a use case that may help motivate the RDF WG ...
13:38:20 [ivan]: ack ivan
13:38:27 [bhyland]: davidwood: suggested an email thread to public RDF comments would be helpful.
13:39:05 [bhyland]: ivan: One of the big issues with XML literals is namespace issues. In case of HTML5 literal, the namespace issue is moot.
13:40:16 [davidwood]: Please send comments to public-rdf-comments@w3.org
13:41:05 [bhyland]: ACTION for fsasaki: Please send comments to mailto:public-rdf-comments@w3.org to get use case and proposal on their radar for discussion.
13:41:05 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - for
13:41:29 [bhyland]: s/their/RDF WG's
13:42:15 [danbri]: examples lupedia.ontotext.com http://www.opencalais.com/ http://www.zemanta.com/?f=1 http://incubator.apache.org/stanbol/
13:42:49 [fsasaki]: https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/3
13:42:53 [bhyland]: fsasaki: discussed work on relation between schema.org vocabulary and a to be
13:42:53 [bhyland]: created vocabulary for automatic named entity annotation, see
13:42:53 [bhyland]: https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/3
13:44:10 [bhyland]: q+
13:44:48 [bhyland]: danbri: asked about examples of "entity" the way the MLW community thinks about it vs. schema.org
13:45:38 [ivan]: ack bhyland
13:46:06 [danbri]: see also http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/ --- very similar concerns there
13:46:35 [bhyland]: @fsasaki - do you know about the work of Elena Montiel Ponsod from Universidad Politécnica de Madrid re: multi-lingual support for LOD
13:48:08 [George]: re Elena - see http://aksw.org/Projects/LIMES
13:48:18 [fsasaki]: tx!
13:48:50 [George]: actually - that's the wrong LIMES sorry - will correct shortly
13:49:25 [bhyland]: q?
13:50:25 [bhyland]: @fsasaki, thank you, wonderful work and very well organized. Thanks for sharing this with us today. I'll make email intro between you & Elena and her team.
13:51:07 [fsasaki]: great, thanks a lot, bhyland :)
13:51:25 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-swcg-minutes.html fsasaki
13:51:42 [bhyland]: Topic: schema.org sychronization ...
13:51:44 [davidwood]: q+ to ask whether schema.org's relationship can move closer to W3 as the WHAT WG did
13:52:04 [George]: @fsasaki - here's the right Elena LIMES link, it's a start anyway; http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/4/4a/MultilingualismGLD%28v4%29.pdf
13:52:58 [bhyland]: danbri: Guha was a primary voice/force behind RDF and is the same force behind schema.org and it would be good to view this through that lens.
13:53:00 [George]: @fsasaki - and it's LEMON, not LIMES :)
13:53:23 [fsasaki]: thank you :)
13:54:34 [bhyland]: danbri: Web developers are paying attention to SEO because they want to improve search results …. messiness is accepted by several of the big search engines ...
13:55:36 [danbri]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas
13:55:37 [bhyland]: danbri: We're tracking schema.org issues, markup issues, etc in W3 list ...
13:55:52 [danbri]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/ExternalEnumerations
13:56:04 [bhyland]: Web Schemas is a http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-data-tf/ used by the http://schema.org/ project to collaborate with the wider community.
13:56:34 [bhyland]: danbri: Don't want schema.org to be originator of lists of countries, weights & measures.
13:56:44 [Zakim]: +sandro
13:56:55 [bhyland]: … that is better done by other organizations.
13:57:20 [bhyland]: danbri: there is a lot in schema.org that are points of interest, stuff that goes on maps for example.
13:58:01 [bhyland]: danbri: focus is more at defining the top level intersection with wikipedia.
13:58:24 [bhyland]: danbri: focus is more on defining top level intersection points ...
13:58:53 [bhyland]: danbri: the ideal division of labor is for us to describe the structure but content by others ...
14:00:22 [bhyland]: … collected promise, 'here is something we can work together on'. The big four (Yandex/Google/Bing/MS) each have their specific focus ...
14:01:04 [bhyland]: WebSchemas proposals are listed here, see http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/SchemaDotOrgProposals
14:01:56 [bhyland]: … external enumerations are key issue ...
14:03:16 [Zakim]: +Guus_Schreiber
14:03:17 [bhyland]: … accepted levels of pluralism are being worked out.
14:03:39 [ivan]: ack davidwood
14:03:39 [Zakim]: davidwood, you wanted to ask whether schema.org's relationship can move closer to W3 as the WHAT WG did
14:04:00 [Guus]: Guus has joined #swcg
14:04:33 [bhyland]: danbri: How we work … 2-3 engineers from the four search companies meet each Friday.
14:05:29 [bhyland]: … in the future the W3C telecon infrastructure will be used to do more work in the public to build trust & transparency.
14:06:14 [bhyland]: davidwood: It would be good to give the community more clarity ...
14:07:37 [bhyland]: danbri: There is no formal organization behind the project per se.
14:08:21 [danbri]: adjourned. + after chat:
14:09:41 [Zakim]: -George
14:09:44 [Zakim]: -tbaker
14:09:51 [ivan]: rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:51 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-swcg-minutes.html ivan
14:09:52 [Zakim]: -fsasaki
14:10:58 [ivan]: zakim, who is here?
14:10:58 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Ivan, LeeF, bhyland, danbri, sandro, Guus_Schreiber
14:11:00 [Zakim]: bhyland has davidwood
14:15:05 [ivan]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/team-rdf-chairs/2012Mar/0014.html
14:20:33 [sandro]: { <a> <c> }
14:21:15 [LeeF]: yes
14:21:30 [sandro]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:21:30 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Ivan, LeeF, bhyland, danbri, sandro, Guus_Schreiber
14:21:31 [Zakim]: bhyland has davidwood
14:21:34 [sandro]: ha!
14:22:25 [davidwood]: Isn't the basis for the disagreement the relation of graphs to REST (or not)?
14:23:13 [sandro]: ... <s> ....
14:25:27 [Guus]: q+
14:25:53 [ivan]: ack Guus
14:37:12 [sandro]: davidwood: "It's about a bunch of parties making claims"
14:41:40 [sandro]: sandro: n3 solves these problems; just not efficiently enough.
14:42:42 [sandro]: <rel> { <s> .... }
14:43:21 [sandro]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-Designs#Graph_Objects
14:43:45 [danbri]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quints
14:44:41 [davidwood]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quince
14:45:13 [sandro]: its'a graph about things, and some of those things are graphs
14:46:28 [sandro]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-Designs
14:49:02 [sandro]: Simple example: :ga rdf:type rdf:Graph. :sandro endorses :ga. :ga { :s1 :p1 :o1 }
14:51:15 [Zakim]: -danbri
14:51:33 [danbri]: (skype just kicked me off; not sure why! thanks for letting me join...)
14:51:58 [sandro]: There is an isomorphism between solution 3 and solution 6. G type K. G {...} === G J { .... } where there is a 1-1 mapping between K and J.
14:57:46 [sandro]: eg:g2 owl:sameAs "eg:s2 eg:p2 eg:o2"^^rdf:turtle.
14:59:51 [sandro]: agreement to http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-Designs#Typed_Labels
15:00:05 [Zakim]: This conference is in overtime; 4 ports must be freed
15:00:26 [Zakim]: -bhyland
15:00:28 [Zakim]: -sandro
15:00:29 [Zakim]: -Guus_Schreiber
15:00:31 [Zakim]: -Ivan
15:00:43 [ivan]: zakim, bye
15:00:43 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Ivan, fsasaki, LeeF, tbaker, bhyland, George, davidwood, danbri, sandro, Guus_Schreiber
15:00:43 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #swcg
15:00:53 [ivan]: rrsagent, bye
15:00:53 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items