Shawn asked for the group to review the plans to work on three sets of course materials to add to the WebED wiki. They are Web Accessibility Basics, Preliminary Evaluation, and BAD. Shawn reported that Suzette has placed in the EO wiki a rough list of links and such that will lead to materials that we can post on the WebEd group eventually. Articles are in need of refresh and members volunteered to review, make suggestions and support timely updates. The group discussed the fact that, in addition to having the articles here revised for the WebEd wiki, we will integrate accessibility techniques into the general development techniques articles as it makes sense to do so.
Next up for discussion were the Application Notes that had been suggested at the November face-to-face. Shadi provided background for those who had not been there and pointed everyone to the Application Notes Analysis. Discussion centered around the fact that since the community seems enegized and motivated and WAI has funding to support this, now is an excellent time to focus on how we might develop a set of well vetted authoritative references to supplement the community work in progress. The idea at this time is to create modules in a cookbook style that will be easy to find and use and that should be engaging to developers. General agreement on the value and the importance of developing these resources.Strong interest in engaging the community perhaps on an open community group wiki of preliminary articles that can then be brought into EO for polishing and final vetting before publishing as a WAI document.
The natural seque was into the next agenda item, a discussion of community activities and how to further develop the cooperative energy that was in such strong evidence at CSUN. Discussion included consideration of the barriers that prevent accessibility advocates from thinking they can do this kind of work at WAI. Sharron suggested closer collaboration with the various accessibility camps planned for this year. Discussion centered on the mutual benefit that could be fostered and Sharron offered to send the remaining WAI flyers as well as Knowbility's WCAG2 flashcard game to anyone in EO who requested them (while supplies last). Denis volunteered to give some thought to engagement methods and to consider starting a community group as a way to avoid splintering the efforts and find a way to sync up the various activities.</>
Shawn reminded everyone to check action items, remembering that there are general action items at the top of the EO page and to update availability for future EO teleconferences.
Shawn: With Suzette not here we may not be able to make as much progress on this.
... we have been talking about course materials pulled over from other materials for the work of the WebEd group. Currently there were two articles - Evaluating Accessibility and Accessibility Basics.
... we thought we would start with those plus the BAD demo. It is still experiential and we will see how it goes.
Sharron: are they in the WebEd wiki?
Shawn: No, for now they are in our wiki and one of the items for discussion is where they should reside.
<shawn> ACTION: Shadi & Shawn write up instructions for translators for pages with ExCol script [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012 /03/16-eo-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-110 - & Shawn write up instructions for translators for pages with ExCol script [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2012-03-23].
<shawn> ACTION-110 due 2012-04-26
<trackbot> ACTION-110 & Shawn write up instructions for translators for pages with ExCol script due date now 2012-04-26
Shawn: For now is a rough outline with links that Suzette started. Not sure if this is meant to be just for us, since she talks about the date-edness of each of them. For the short term, the main purpose will be to point people to our more current resources related to the topics.
... I know you have not had a lot of time to look it over, but would like to hear the group's first impressions about this kind of organization of the materials. It is basically intro text with links to relevant documents.
... I assume we will need to look at this some more. Please take time this week to look it over. This is an open page. There is no single editor so all can contribute.
<dboudreau> yes i'm good with that too
Sharron: I have a very basic question, will accessibility be integrated in the final course content or separated out?
Shawn: Both, we want to have the separate accessibility information around basic reasons why and approach. Will integrate specific techniques into the sections. For example, accessible forms will be integrated into instruction about how to make forms, for example.
... This is the starter page for Evaluation, needs to be cleaned up and updated. Feel free to edit.
Denis: I can do that if you want.
<scribe> ACTION: Denis update wiki entry on Evaluation for Accessibility, preliminary page. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012 /03/16-eo-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-111 - Update wiki entry on Evaluation for Accessibility, preliminary page. [on Denis Boudreau - due 2012-03-23].
Shawn: Will check in next week to see if this is a good framework for working on this.
... the Before and After Demo is another item we thought we would suggest to the WebEd wiki.
Andrew: Is there a bucket full of use cases that Shadi could share?
Shadi: I have not presented as often as I would have expected but I know a lot about it and can contribute, if needed.
Shawn: I think it will be better if we get additional perspectives since Shadi is so embedded.
... people have said if you don't know anything about it, it takes awhile to learn how to use it.
... so what will be useful is a step-by-step about how you would demonstrate accessible forms, for example, using a screen reader on the Before and the After pages.
... I also think it useful to have the jokes explained so people don't miss them.
Shadi: Not only the jokes but the more subtle features. Many different ways that images were implemented to show how and why decisions are made about them.
<shawn> The Insiders Guide to BAD
Shadi: those could be documented.
Shawn: Behind the Scenes with BAD
... the Secret Life of BAD
... mini-presentations related to BAD
Andrew: +1
Shawn: At some point we will move them to the WebEd wiki. Not ready for that since they are in such a very preliminary draft stage. But it would be useful to move over as soon as possible.
Shawn: We will be talking in depth about this next week, but will ask Shadi to provide background today in preparation.
Shadi: I won't be here for the next two weeks, so would appreciate any discussion we could have today.
Shadi: we talked about doing this at the Face-to-Face, the inital brainstorm that we had. Next will be the choice of topics.
Andrew: Can you distinguish between Application notes and WebEd work?
<shawn> [Draft] Analysis for "Application Notes" http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/ch angelogs/cl-app-notes
Shadi: Given how the accessibility community is energized around sharing information and creating BoK and Evaluation Matrix and such, we should not be in the position of chasing down those initiatives. Rather we can develop a set of well vetted authoritative references in supplement.
... So if someone develops a tutorial on how to mark-up an accessible table, they can orient themselves based on the content of the Application Notes. What we produce should ideally serve as a baseline reference. A fall-back net for developers, users, educators and testers to double-check for correctness.
... If you find a tutorial that you like, you will have a reference for accuracy.
Sharron: it makes sense to have it, I wonder about the time it will take to develop. The community is very motivated now.
...I think it is important to capture this energy. Given that entusiasm is likely to fade as the grind of the actual work sets in, we are in a position to facilitate if we quickly provide a framework.
Shadi: We do have funding and plans for doing it now.
Helle: What is the difference between this and some of the technical technique examples?
Shadi: WCAG is now sorted by Success Criteria.
Helle: But will the content be similar?
Shadi: I think what we are proposing is a level of practicality beyond the Techniques. It should be fairly engaging to developers, cookbook style.
... for example image implementation. A document will show there are different ways to do it, why you would choose to do one or another and use the BAD as the example for each one. More narrative and more explanatory.
Helle: Yes, that could be helpful. For example, We used definition lists rather than headings to set up a calendar, and it was not useful for a screen reader. It would have been very helpful to have Application Notes to understand the best way to do that task.
<AndrewA> "best practice guides"
<shawn> ACTION: Shawn write up idea for good index for WCAG techniques [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012 /03/16-eo-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-112 - Write up idea for good index for WCAG techniques [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-03-23].
Shadi: We may call them something other than Application Notes
Denis: It would be useful to get people who are supportive of W3C and EO engaged in this.
... my intent is to bring everybody into the EO work. Not sure how to do this at the moment, would like to understand why it is not a natural place for people to work.
... Application Notes doesn't really mean anything to me. Instead, I would like to share a list of Best Practices based on a specific Success Criteria. Is this similar? To help people understand what the Techniques docs really mean?
Shadi: We are in the process of deciding.
... we have a fair amount of flexibility of how we approach it. May try a variety of different approaches to see which is most effective.
... the Application Notes may help get others engaged from the community. There may be an additional need for adapting the references for specific use cases. While we want them to be adaptable, they must stick to the facts. If we have soemthing referencable at WAI, we may help elevate the dialogue.
Shawn: The materials you are writing Denis, per SC is it 10 slides, 2 sentences, what length?
Denis: My intention is to provide a bulleted list of what is needed to meet each Guideline.
... some elements are hard to understand. There are some cases in which the misunderstandings are many and varied.
... the short list will be to give them a headsup on what is needed and then bring them to the full Success Criteria.
Shawn: Can we look at how that intersects with the Quick Reference?
Denis: I will try to become very active on this and get EO input before AccessU in May.
Shadi: It will be best i think to have a common framework and structure, that is similar across many documents.
... we may focus on common barriers such as tables, calendars, forms, etc. But must also point to advanced topics, WAI-ARIA, mobile applications, designing content for TV, etc
... we also talked about Application Notes in terms of optimization, for older users for example or for mobile, or specific situations and users. Will want to think about levels and how to most directly address different developer needs.
... I am estimating a number of topics, not sure how many but will be a finite number so will have to prioritize.
Helle: Optimizing your navigation, for example. Our calendar developer didn't really think about it in terms of that, but if presented that way would get developer attention differently.
... the main barriers to inclusion are within our own brains, perception.
Shadi: If our goal is to mainstream accessibility, we must equip the developers with well-vetted hacks that they can pop into whatever they are doing in a way that is more correct than how they are working now.
... the hope would be to engage people in ways that are more readily understandable in the context of their own work.
Andrew: As you get more sophisticated in your topics, like slidey controls, can we use any of the variety of implementations that people in the community have developed? would we point to those?
Shadi: I have not thought that through. How would we vet which materials to point at? what criteria to use? With WAI-ARIA if we provide them a framework, perhaps they will develop examples for us?
... will certainly point to techniques. It may be a bit of an issue to point externally and will decide on case-by-case basis.
<AndrewA> for example the AEGIS work or the CA Govt WET resources
Andrew: Part of the issue is that we see these examples developed over and over. Would be fantastic to get this work done within or in cooperation with EO.
<dboudreau> @shadi: correct
Shadi: These are code libraries, aren't they? I don't think we will get to that level of detail to where we are producing actual code libraries.
... I envision the Application Notes as explanation of the essentials rather than a code sample.
Sharron: Authoritative version that people can count on. It would be a good incentive to publicize on-going work that people can contribute to and can engage in.
<shawn> ... this work (eg implementation guides)... role-based info... really good
<dboudreau> Successfully Integrating Accessibility in your Organization's Web Development Lifecycle (csun11) http://www.slideshare.net/AccessibiliteWeb/successfully-integrating-accessibil ity-in-your-organizations-web-development-lifecycle
Shadi: We did a Best Practices exhange in the past with themes and sometimes with roles, it was useful and we can draw on those
Denis: It is not the W3C's role to build code libraries but rather to develop documentation or materials that help people build credible references on their own.
Sharron: This is a good direction to go, excellent work for us do and one that will be supported by the community if we can find ways to engage with them.
Shawn: So now we can continue the discussion around how we can capitalize on the energy generated within the community around accessibility.
Denis: Trying to get those who want to build BoK and Eval matrix to do so within WAI and through the wiki instead of building a new one.
... I can not understand why there is a resistance.
Sharron: Various reasons, some have to do with control, others with expediency
Shawn: What can we do in long and short term to let people know what W3C can do and is doing.
... maybe form a community group?
<AndrewA> http://www.w3.org/community/
Sharron: It has been suggested that community groups are easy to form.
Denis: Yes, but may not be fast enough for some.
... I can talk to some as possible.
... I was one of those a few months ago saying I thought the BoK was best developed outside of W3C and not sure I feel that way anymore. I am sorry for the splintering of efforts in such a small community. It is my responsibility to be an actor of collaboration but at the same time I want things to happen so I am torn.
Shawn: What do you think of formation of community group, Shadi?
Shadi: Many facets to it, it may be very useful. The Application Notes (or whatever it would be called) may also be a motivating place for people to be drawn to.
Shawn: If we are looking for ways to engage, we have good momentum. We have funding, we have new structures, new projects. Though we can't shout about it yet, we have an obligation to let people know that W3C could be a very good place to do this work.
Shadi: If even the most interested and firm believers in W3C don't find what they need they will wander off to do their own thing. In any group you will get some level of feedback on your work. Some people will never participate.
Shawn: An open wiki can be a less authoritative place to work, there is more of an opportunity to develop things that can be brought to EO for polishing and authorization as a WAI document.
Shadi: Absolutely, could be a great mechanism to bring information into EO. You need to recruit active participants in the community groups into EO as well.
People throw things over the WAI wall for us to use. We need people to receive and vet the information and authorize it.
<shadi> +1 to utilizing community groups where possible
Shawn: Do we encourage people to join/form a community group first? That way, we can have interaction with individuals.
Helle: I was just saying that next time we have a discussion about people's work, can we identify them specifically, please?
Sharron: What about the AccessCamps? Can we participate more actively?
Denis: Discussion at CSUN was to use those accesscamp websites to summarize all of the community accessibility efforts, have one place to go and see how those efforts are coming together all over the map.
... maybe we can work closely with them on promotion.
Jennifer; Or we promote our materials to them, to use them.
...I have been trying to follow all of those activities through social media.
Sharron: Collabortive effort, if we know they are distributing WAI materials,we will want to promote them.
Shawn:We promote our work at an event
...We think carefully about promoting events, generally we do not do so. But if staff is talking or a WG participant is speaking, or if our materials or work is featured, we can do so. We will be promoting our own work.
Sharron: But if mutually supportive, it makes sense.
Denis: Don't care how it is worded as long as it is talked about. Endorsement or not, more visibility is appreciated.
... neutrality works both ways.
... if we find a way to promote WAI through these events, it supports the events credibility and visibility it doesn't matter what it is called.
Shawn: We do want to build closer collaboration with the AccessCamp , I gave flyers to the organziaers.
Helle: Can we get the flyers in PDF to print our own?
Shawn: Yes, I will send the final draft.
<scribe> ACTION: Shawn to send flyer PDF to the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012 /03/16-eo-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-113 - Send flyer PDF to the group [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-03-23].
Shawn: can we send that notice to the EO list?
<scribe> ACTION: Sharron to send physical flyer to anyone who needs them, if requested by sending mailing address. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012 /03/16-eo-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-114 - Send physical flyer to anyone who needs them, if requested by sending mailing address. [on Sharron Rush - due 2012-03-23].
Denis: Web Card Accessibility Game
Jennifer: Or use the POUR acronymn
Shawn: Want to run by Judy and others in WAI
Sharron: I would nominate Denis as a lead to start the community group
Shawn: And perhaps Jennison as a co-chair
Denis: Let me give it some thought for a few days and get back.
... is my understanding correct that they are meant to be a neutral platform and we can form what we want and have conversation that we want?
Shawn: Yes, you can join a community group and be on the mailing list and do nothing. There is no formal time commitment, the whole point is to be very light weight and get things going there.
Shawn: OK, well time is up for now, more on this next week. In the meantime, update your availability and remember that the whole group ToDo's are at the top of the EO home page.