See also: IRC log
Eric - welcome. There was an overview mail sent. If you have not answered, please send your responses
Eric: Discussion around any sample and the scope
of the sample. The comments will be added to the methodology. Currently
methodology states whole websites so that will be changed.
... Error margin will also be removed
... Will create a new version this weekend and will send it out on Monday
... Agenda point 2 - changes to the methodology; added citation code, UM to
the references
<vivienne> can you put the link to the last version up?
Eric: changes are color coded
<ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20120125.html
<vivienne> thanks, Eric
Eric: Agenda 3 - discussion on procedure to
express scope
... scope of the website will be added to the document; will not be limited to
the full website
... there could be pages that were not in the sample where they do not fully
comply but it is possible to get a representative sample
... Any thoughts on this and the overview?
<Mike_Elledge> +1
Vivienne: Would a web application be considered a website?
Eric: good questions, don't have an answer.
<Mike_Elledge_> Seems like they would be treated the same way...
kerstin: not sufficient to just check pages. Also need to check elements. Important because of the different editors
Eric: already building this into the document
... single elements should be reviewed
ssirois: We don't have to evaluate the full website. The representative sample needs to cover the different types of contents. Owner of the website should conform for the full site. Bank example may require access to special services - these people may not want to use the full website so it is ok for sub-section of the website
<ssirois> agree with Elle that it could be a pitfall that the owner is responsible for choosing the sample.
Elle: when we are talking about the scope
defining scope by the website owner; they may abuse this.
... we should be clear about expectations for defining scope
<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to ask for a definition of "website" as a self-enclosed entity, which could be an application or a subsite, rather than to say "portion of a website"
shadi: agrees with Elle, portions of a website may be better stated as self-enclosed entity; WCAG can already evaluate pages; we need to go further
<vivienne> I like the phrase, Shadi
Eric: need to create definition
Richard: Shadi said what I wanted to say; portions should be removes; likes "self-enclosed entity"
<ssirois> for the record, my point was that i do agree that a representative sample is OK for conformance evaluation as long as the sample is representative in quantity AND quality. We must be able to trust the website owner that if the representative sample is conform, the rest should be. The bank example submitted on the list is dangerous. We must not use that representative sample in order to develop only an "accessible sub-portion" of a whole. I'll develop and send my
Mike: what common terminology should be used to describe the conformance on a website. Text will help give understanding
Eric: will add this in and make notes about what was changed
vivienne: procedure to express the scope (new text in purple), would you be adding XML sitemap?
Eric: part of this question needs to be answered
in reporting section. Pages should be recorded in the conformance claim
... What do you lead people to the pages?
Vivienne: what about screen capture
Eric: Anyone have an idea on how we can cover this?
Elle - can we attached use cases?
Elle: this defined the steps; use cases are built on activities and functions; will be a way of expressing the pages when URLs don't apply
richard: key ingredient is the scope statement needs to be clear: version, date should be included; URLs can change
<kerstin> +1
<ssirois> +1 with the precision brought up by richard on the scope
Sarah: agree with Elle; use cases can be helpful. This describes the task and path. Parts of pages should be included, this often has a name or nickname that can be included
Eric: Has enough to add to the document
... Sampling of pages; there are 3 categories: core, random; task-oriented
Eric: Non-random sample - should we take this out; do we need the core set of resources or should we have different scenarios (full website or portion)
sarah - helpful to leave it in; they should be doing the full website; we should be strongly communicating the full website
Kerstin: we should leave it in; webpage should be the rule; sections or portions should be marked as exceptions
ssirois: really likes the list of core resources. If something goes wrong, users will be able to contact the owner to complain.
<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to say that "self-enclosed entities" will still have some key features
<kerstin> +1 for the self-enclosed entities
Shadi: agree with previous speakers; avoid saying portions of website; say self-enclosed entities. We should add scenarios
Eric: let's work on this definition
Mike: helpful to make the distinction to look at the type of conformance claim; public facing portions vs sections of the site
Vivienne - likes the core resources; list can be used as the first resources; should be also use term landing page? - these are entry points
Vivienne: sections should be included and the landing pages define the start
<vivienne> yes, that's fine
Eric: theres could be many landing pages; self-enclosed entity could be this; landing pages would need to be defined as part of the conformance claim
<Sarah_Swierenga> Sorry, I need to sign-off now. Have a good week, everyone!
Eric: random resources is from UM; more work
needs to be done on this; if you have time read the random sampling document.
We will start a short discussion online
... we will not dive into this now; need to evaluate if this is relevant based
on change of scope
... any questions on random section?
vivienne: when I am working on a random sample,
try to check as many of the WCAG checkpoints - not just the similar pages
... needs to be as representative as possible
Eric: shadi will send minutes; eric will send new version on Monday and will send out new discussions
kerstin: concerned about the terminolgy used. Statistical terms being used have different meaning in our document - representative, sampling etc
Eric: will send documentation; has been checked by statistical people
Eric: thanks for joining. Look for the documents and see you next week