The minutes were approved, action reviewed. Note that we do NOT have a telecon next Thursday, since F2F is Friday.
The CR exit criteria were approved. Update on the questionnaire was provided by Stephan. Outstanding minor points will be addressed shortly.
Outstanding issues were reviewed. Group answer to ISSUE-491 remains to be written; Luc will contact Stian about it. ISSUE-522 is the only technical issue remaining to be addressed. Tim will draft a response and share it with the group, with a view to respond to the reviewer early next week. In response to ISSUE-522, Luc also updated the wording in prov-dm. All outstanding issues are purely editorial and the team believes the document will be ready for the face to face meeting.
The responses drafted by James during the week were approved by the group. James will contact the reviewers and seek their acknowledgement. Further outstanding issues were addressed. The document will be ready for the face to face meeting.
In response to Ivan's feedback, the group discussed the scope of prefix declarations in prov-n. It was suggested that prefixes declared in a document should also be visible in bundles (unless they have been redeclared). Ivan confirmed that this was not a design change, but a syntactic sugar change. The group endorsed the proposal (and issue-589 was raised to that effect). Graham was also satisfied with the changes to the mime type application. It is planned to implement the new issue shortly and complete the document ahead of the meeting.
the outstanding issue in prov-dm is related to mention (issue-475). A response was circulated during the week. The proposal is to keep the feature marked at risk, and as indicated in the document, make a decision on its suitability based on implementer's feedback. A vote is to be carried out by email (deadline next Tuesday) in time to respond to the reviewer.
The editors of the prov-xml document have produced a draft of the specification and are now seeking feedback. Luc and James have volunteered to review the document. Other reviewers would be appreciated. The key question is to decide whether the document is ready for release as a fpwd, synchronised with the CR release. It was discussed whether there was time to update the primer with xml examples. The prov-xml team will draft the example in full in xml and will share it with Simon.
14:38:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-prov-irc ←
14:39:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:39:03 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:39:03 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes ←
14:39:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:39:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:39:04 <trackbot> Date: 01 November 2012
14:39:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes ←
14:39:12 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.11.01
14:39:20 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:40:01 <Luc> Regrets: Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Daniel Garijo, Curt Tilmes
14:40:16 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:40:26 <Luc> topic: Admin
Summary: The minutes were approved, action reviewed. Note that we do NOT have a telecon next Thursday, since F2F is Friday.
14:57:07 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 16 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:57:14 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
14:57:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:00:39 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aaaa ←
15:00:48 <MacTed> MacTed has changed the topic to: PROV WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- current agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.11.01
Ted Thibodeau: MacTed has changed the topic to: PROV WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- current agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.11.01 ←
15:00:49 <tlebo> zakim, I am aaaa
Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aaaa ←
15:00:49 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
15:01:01 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:01:01 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:01:02 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:01:02 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:01:35 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), tlebo ←
15:01:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
15:01:53 <tlebo> I'll scribe
Timothy Lebo: I'll scribe ←
15:02:00 <Luc> scribe: tlebo
(Scribe set to Timothy Lebo)
15:02:27 <tlebo> luc: good afternoon.
Luc Moreau: good afternoon. ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←
15:02:39 <tlebo> ... trying to close issues leading to F2F
... trying to close issues leading to F2F ←
15:02:51 <Luc> Proposed: approve Minutes of the October 25, 2012 Telecon
PROPOSED: approve Minutes of the October 25, 2012 Telecon ←
15:03:01 <Paolo> +1
Paolo Missier: +1 ←
15:03:02 <jun> +1
15:03:03 <tlebo> proposed: approve last week's minutes
PROPOSED: approve last week's minutes ←
15:03:06 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:03:12 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:03:20 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aabb ←
15:03:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aaa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aaa] ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
15:03:51 <Luc> Accepted: Minutes of the October 25, 2012 Telecon
RESOLVED: Minutes of the October 25, 2012 Telecon ←
15:04:10 <smiles> zakim, ??P14 is me
Simon Miles: zakim, ??P14 is me ←
15:04:10 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it ←
15:04:10 <tlebo> luc: outstanding actions
Luc Moreau: outstanding actions ←
15:04:38 <tlebo> tim has not done the cross referencing yet.
tim has not done the cross referencing yet. ←
15:05:07 <tlebo> tim: the cross referencing is editorial
Timothy Lebo: the cross referencing is editorial ←
15:05:23 <tlebo> Stian's 118 can be closed
Stian's 118 can be closed ←
15:05:43 <tlebo> 121 - Tim's action on subclassing.
121 - Tim's action on subclassing. ←
<Luc>Summary: The minutes were approved, action reviewed. Note that we do NOT have a telecon next Thursday, since F2F is Friday.
15:06:20 <Luc> topic: exit criteria
Summary: The CR exit criteria were approved. Update on the questionnaire was provided by Stephan. Outstanding minor points will be addressed shortly.
<luc>Summary: The CR exit criteria were approved. Update on the questionnaire was provided by Stephan. Outstanding minor points will be addressed shortly.
15:06:22 <tlebo> luc: note that we do NOT have a telecon next Thur., since F2F is Friday.
Luc Moreau: note that we do NOT have a telecon next Thur., since F2F is Friday. ←
15:06:28 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0305.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0305.html ←
15:06:42 <tlebo> luc: paul sent proposal to accept criteria.
Luc Moreau: paul sent proposal to accept criteria. ←
15:06:47 <tlebo> ... all responses were positive.
... all responses were positive. ←
15:07:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:07:01 <tlebo> ... can we record approval? any objections?
... can we record approval? any objections? ←
15:07:16 <Luc> accepted: CR Exit Criteria defined at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria are approved
RESOLVED: CR Exit Criteria defined at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria are approved ←
15:07:42 <tlebo> luc: questionnaire. Is it ready to submit to W3C management team?
Luc Moreau: questionnaire. Is it ready to submit to W3C management team? ←
15:07:55 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
15:08:36 <tlebo> zednik: trying to fix Paul's last issue on it. Implementation consuming external construct. Will address them today and get confirmation, will send it out.
Stephan Zednik: trying to fix Paul's last issue on it. Implementation consuming external construct. Will address them today and get confirmation, will send it out. ←
15:08:54 <tlebo> zednik: will try to finish it today.
Stephan Zednik: will try to finish it today. ←
15:09:23 <tlebo> luc: will try to have an email vote ahead of the F2F
Luc Moreau: will try to have an email vote ahead of the F2F ←
15:09:26 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:09:43 <Luc> topic: Prov-o Issues
Summary: Outstanding issues were reviewed. Group answer to ISSUE-491 remains to be written; Luc will contact Stian about it. ISSUE-522 is the only technical issue remaining to be addressed. Tim will draft a response and share it with the group, with a view to respond to the reviewer early next week. In response to ISSUE-522, Luc also updated the wording in prov-dm. All outstanding issues are purely editorial and the team believes the document will be ready for the face to face meeting.
<luc>Summary: Outstanding issues were reviewed. Group answer to ISSUE-491 remains to be written; Luc will contact Stian about it. ISSUE-522 is the only technical issue remaining to be addressed. Tim will draft a response and share it with the group, with a view to respond to the reviewer early next week. In response to ISSUE-522, Luc also updated the wording in prov-dm. All outstanding issues are purely editorial and the team believes the document will be ready for the face to face meeting.
15:10:06 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10 ←
15:10:10 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/3
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/3 ←
15:11:01 <tlebo> 349 can be closed
349 can be closed ←
15:11:57 <tlebo> 479 can be clsoed b/c we are not using Trig.
479 can be clsoed b/c we are not using Trig. ←
15:12:09 <tlebo> 491 was Stian handling it.
491 was Stian handling it. ←
15:12:35 <tlebo> Luc: Tim to draft response and contact reviewer.
Luc Moreau: Tim to draft response and contact reviewer. ←
15:13:27 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
15:13:44 <GK1> zakim, ??p13 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p13 is me ←
15:13:44 <Zakim> +GK1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK1; got it ←
15:13:53 <tlebo> Tim: I''l hunt down everthing there...
Timothy Lebo: I''l hunt down everthing there... ←
15:13:58 <Zakim> + +1.661.382.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.661.382.aacc ←
15:14:16 <CraigTrim> zakim, aacc is me
Craig Trim: zakim, aacc is me ←
15:14:17 <Zakim> +CraigTrim; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +CraigTrim; got it ←
15:15:46 <Luc> Rephrasing in prov-dm: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/rev/363ce30cec66
Luc Moreau: Rephrasing in prov-dm: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/rev/363ce30cec66 ←
15:15:53 <tlebo> Tim: 552 is the only big issue, and I'll start it after this call.
Timothy Lebo: 552 is the only big issue, and I'll start it after this call. ←
15:16:31 <tlebo> luc: new definitions include "relation"
Luc Moreau: new definitions include "relation" ←
15:17:37 <tlebo> luc: change of text, but not of the ontology.
Luc Moreau: change of text, but not of the ontology. ←
15:18:09 <tlebo> tlebo: my approach will be to change the text.
Timothy Lebo: my approach will be to change the text. ←
15:18:41 <tlebo> luc: draft response, group approves, convey change to commenter, and have acknowledgment before F2F.
Luc Moreau: draft response, group approves, convey change to commenter, and have acknowledgment before F2F. ←
15:19:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:19:16 <tlebo> ... can we vote, so that the acknowledgement can be sent to the commenter on Monday.
... can we vote, so that the acknowledgement can be sent to the commenter on Monday. ←
15:19:38 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2012Nov/0000.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2012Nov/0000.html ←
15:20:34 <tlebo> tim: my impression was that it is just an announcement.
Timothy Lebo: my impression was that it is just an announcement. ←
15:21:05 <tlebo> luc: they are using wasInfluencedBy, but the rec suggest to use a subproperty.
Luc Moreau: they are using wasInfluencedBy, but the rec suggest to use a subproperty. ←
15:21:55 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:21:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, [IPcaller], tlebo, [IPcaller.a], [IPcaller.aa], +1.818.731.aabb, [IPcaller.aaa], smiles, GK1, CraigTrim
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, [IPcaller], tlebo, [IPcaller.a], [IPcaller.aa], +1.818.731.aabb, [IPcaller.aaa], smiles, GK1, CraigTrim ←
15:22:02 <tlebo> tlebo: yes, we can look at their use and suggest to use a subproperty.
Timothy Lebo: yes, we can look at their use and suggest to use a subproperty. ←
15:22:24 <Luc> topic: PROV-Constraints issues
Summary: The responses drafted by James during the week were approved by the group. James will contact the reviewers and seek their acknowledgement. Further outstanding issues were addressed. The document will be ready for the face to face meeting.
<Luc>Summary: The responses drafted by James during the week were approved by the group. James will contact the reviewers and seek their acknowledgement. Further outstanding issues were addressed. The document will be ready for the face to face meeting.
15:22:54 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/12
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/12 ←
15:23:09 <tlebo> jcheney: isssues were raised from the feedback last week.
James Cheney: isssues were raised from the feedback last week. ←
15:23:41 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#PROV-CONSTRAINTS.28Under_review.29
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#PROV-CONSTRAINTS.28Under_review.29 ←
15:23:43 <tlebo> ... haven't heard any feedback beyond minor typos.
... haven't heard any feedback beyond minor typos. ←
15:24:09 <tlebo> ... unless objection, would like to send the responses to the commenters.
... unless objection, would like to send the responses to the commenters. ←
15:24:19 <tlebo> ... two more issues that are leftover from last call. internal.
... two more issues that are leftover from last call. internal. ←
15:24:22 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
15:24:25 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/559
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/559 ←
15:24:59 <tlebo> ... made propsoed change and considers it done. Do we need to send a formal response?
... made propsoed change and considers it done. Do we need to send a formal response? ←
15:25:15 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/522
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/522 ←
15:25:16 <tlebo> ... the comment spread from issue on DM
... the comment spread from issue on DM ←
15:25:24 <tlebo> luc: we need to approve responses.
Luc Moreau: we need to approve responses. ←
15:26:30 <Luc> PROPOSED: The group endorses the responses to issue-556, issue-576, issue-582, issue-586, issue-587, issue-588, issue-584, issue-579, issue-585, issue-583, issue-580, issue-577, issue-578, issue-581
Luc Moreau: PROPOSED: The group endorses the responses to ISSUE-556, ISSUE-576, ISSUE-582, ISSUE-586, ISSUE-587, ISSUE-588, ISSUE-584, ISSUE-579, ISSUE-585, ISSUE-583, ISSUE-580, ISSUE-577, ISSUE-578, ISSUE-581 ←
15:28:15 <tlebo> jcheney: the constraints doc is not addressing how to implement them in OWL etc.
James Cheney: the constraints doc is not addressing how to implement them in OWL etc. ←
15:28:18 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:28:38 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:28:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, tlebo, [IPcaller.a], [IPcaller.aa], +1.818.731.aabb, [IPcaller.aaa], smiles, GK1, CraigTrim
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, tlebo, [IPcaller.a], [IPcaller.aa], +1.818.731.aabb, [IPcaller.aaa], smiles, GK1, CraigTrim ←
15:28:49 <GK> 0 (not reviewed or followed discussion)
Graham Klyne: 0 (not reviewed or followed discussion) ←
15:28:58 <smiles> +1 (though I admit to not having read them all thoroughly...)
Simon Miles: +1 (though I admit to not having read them all thoroughly...) ←
15:29:05 <khalidBelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:29:12 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:29:33 <Luc> accepted: The group endorses the responses to issue-556, issue-576, issue-582, issue-586, issue-587, issue-588, issue-584, issue-579, issue-585, issue-583, issue-580, issue-577, issue-578, issue-581
RESOLVED: The group endorses the responses to ISSUE-556, ISSUE-576, ISSUE-582, ISSUE-586, ISSUE-587, ISSUE-588, ISSUE-584, ISSUE-579, ISSUE-585, ISSUE-583, ISSUE-580, ISSUE-577, ISSUE-578, ISSUE-581 ←
15:29:43 <jun> +0 (haven't been able to review)
Jun Zhao: +0 (haven't been able to review) ←
15:31:01 <tlebo> jcheney: I'll contact the commenters instead of Paul
James Cheney: I'll contact the commenters instead of Paul ←
15:31:12 <tlebo> luc: any other changes?
Luc Moreau: any other changes? ←
15:31:25 <tlebo> jcheney: all that are necessary are done.
James Cheney: all that are necessary are done. ←
15:31:37 <tlebo> ... some quick issues to get feedback:
... some quick issues to get feedback: ←
15:32:01 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/559
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/559 ←
15:32:28 <tlebo> ... 559 was a side effect, do we need to make a formal response?
... 559 was a side effect, do we need to make a formal response? ←
15:32:47 <tlebo> luc: was an internal comment.
Luc Moreau: was an internal comment. ←
15:32:54 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/575
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/575 ←
15:33:07 <tlebo> jcheney: links between identifier fields.
James Cheney: links between identifier fields. ←
15:33:08 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#entity.id
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#entity.id ←
15:33:28 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
15:33:46 <tlebo> luc: i'll do it after the call
Luc Moreau: i'll do it after the call ←
15:34:26 <tlebo> ... in responses, can you ask them to acknowledge and whether they are satisfied?
... in responses, can you ask them to acknowledge and whether they are satisfied? ←
15:34:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:34:42 <Luc> topic: prov-n issues
Summary: In response to Ivan's feedback, the group discussed the scope of prefix declarations in prov-n. It was suggested that prefixes declared in a document should also be visible in bundles (unless they have been redeclared). Ivan confirmed that this was not a design change, but a syntactic sugar change. The group endorsed the proposal (and issue-589 was raised to that effect). Graham was also satisfied with the changes to the mime type application. It is planned to implement the new issue shortly and complete the document ahead of the meeting.
<Luc>Summary: In response to Ivan's feedback, the group discussed the scope of prefix declarations in prov-n. It was suggested that prefixes declared in a document should also be visible in bundles (unless they have been redeclared). Ivan confirmed that this was not a design change, but a syntactic sugar change. The group endorsed the proposal (and issue-589 was raised to that effect). Graham was also satisfied with the changes to the mime type application. It is planned to implement the new issue shortly and complete the document ahead of the meeting.
15:34:58 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/11
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/11 ←
15:35:04 <tlebo> luc: only 2 issues
Luc Moreau: only 2 issues ←
15:35:39 <tlebo> ... ivan was fine, but we want to confirm...
... ivan was fine, but we want to confirm... ←
15:36:05 <tlebo> ... namespace declarations and bundles. bundles do not "inherit" prefixes.
... namespace declarations and bundles. bundles do not "inherit" prefixes. ←
15:36:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:36:32 <tlebo> q+
q+ ←
15:36:33 <GK> q+
Graham Klyne: q+ ←
15:36:55 <GK> q-
Graham Klyne: q- ←
15:37:19 <Luc> ack tl
Luc Moreau: ack tl ←
15:37:26 <tlebo> @gk probably would have stated it better...
@gk probably would have stated it better... ←
15:38:02 <tlebo> gk: same point as Tim, you were responding to URIs of entities
Graham Klyne: same point as Tim, you were responding to URIs of entities ←
15:38:11 <tlebo> luc: do we need to revise?
Luc Moreau: do we need to revise? ←
15:38:23 <jcheney> Currently says: "The scope of a namespace declaration directly occurring in a document is the document itself, excluding the bundles it may contain."
James Cheney: Currently says: "The scope of a namespace declaration directly occurring in a document is the document itself, excluding the bundles it may contain." ←
15:38:25 <tlebo> ... one benefit is that bundles are totally distinct.
... one benefit is that bundles are totally distinct. ←
15:38:52 <jcheney> This forces you to repeat prefixes in common cases, including many natural-looking examples in prov-dm
James Cheney: This forces you to repeat prefixes in common cases, including many natural-looking examples in prov-dm ←
15:39:00 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:39:40 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:40:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:40:12 <Luc> scribe: smiles
(Scribe set to Simon Miles)
15:40:15 <jcheney> q+
James Cheney: q+ ←
15:40:53 <GK> I was saying that I thought the current design is maybe sub-optimal for human use, but not fatally flawed.
Graham Klyne: I was saying that I thought the current design is maybe sub-optimal for human use, but not fatally flawed. ←
15:41:21 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:41:23 <smiles> jcheney: Missed original change to excluding namespaces in top-level bundle; changing the scope to include the namespaces from top-level might not break anything?
James Cheney: Missed original change to excluding namespaces in top-level bundle; changing the scope to include the namespaces from top-level might not break anything? ←
15:41:54 <smiles> Luc: Would need to get advice on whether this is only an editorial change
Luc Moreau: Would need to get advice on whether this is only an editorial change ←
15:42:08 <smiles> ... How strongly do you feel about this?
... How strongly do you feel about this? ←
15:43:01 <smiles> jcheney: There are situations where it is useful to think of bundles as independent and copy-paste without worrying about top-level, but using namespace without repeating declaration throughout a document is common
James Cheney: There are situations where it is useful to think of bundles as independent and copy-paste without worrying about top-level, but using namespace without repeating declaration throughout a document is common ←
15:43:45 <smiles> ... Natural expectation is that if you state something then embedded scopes would include that thing
... Natural expectation is that if you state something then embedded scopes would include that thing ←
15:44:05 <tlebo> FWIW, Turtle and Trig permits the prefixes to be defined once and used in any of many "bundle".
Timothy Lebo: FWIW, Turtle and Trig permits the prefixes to be defined once and used in any of many "bundle". ←
15:44:06 <smiles> Luc: Are we willing to go ahead with change even if it is not just editoral, i.e. back to LC
Luc Moreau: Are we willing to go ahead with change even if it is not just editoral, i.e. back to LC ←
15:44:26 <tlebo> This is not worth going back to Last Call for.
Timothy Lebo: This is not worth going back to Last Call for. ←
15:44:37 <smiles> jcheney: It is something that people will anyway notice and complain about in implementation
James Cheney: It is something that people will anyway notice and complain about in implementation ←
15:44:44 <GK> Maybe ask Ivan if this would need to redo last call. It seems a small change, albeit technical.
Graham Klyne: Maybe ask Ivan if this would need to redo last call. It seems a small change, albeit technical. ←
15:44:56 <ivan> if I may, just on IRC...
Ivan Herman: if I may, just on IRC... ←
15:45:02 <ivan> this is not a design change
Ivan Herman: this is not a design change ←
15:45:09 <Luc> thanks ivan
Luc Moreau: thanks ivan ←
15:45:18 <ivan> this is a change in a syntactic sugar
Ivan Herman: this is a change in a syntactic sugar ←
15:45:25 <Luc> ok
Luc Moreau: ok ←
15:45:35 <ivan> it would influence implementations, but that is not the issue for LC
Ivan Herman: it would influence implementations, but that is not the issue for LC ←
15:45:53 <smiles> Luc: Given the above, it would be good to know the WG's preference
Luc Moreau: Given the above, it would be good to know the WG's preference ←
15:46:05 <Luc> show of hand: allow scope of prefix declarations
Luc Moreau: show of hand: allow scope of prefix declarations ←
15:46:40 <tlebo> +1 because that's how it's done in Turtle/Trig, -1 b/c PROV-N is for examples in Recs :-)
Timothy Lebo: +1 because that's how it's done in Turtle/Trig, -1 b/c PROV-N is for examples in Recs :-) ←
15:46:59 <smiles> satya: Please clarify question
Satya Sahoo: Please clarify question ←
15:47:13 <GK> +0.5 to top-level namespaces visible in contained bundles in PROV-N (next question: can they be redefined in inner bundles?)
Graham Klyne: +0.5 to top-level namespaces visible in contained bundles in PROV-N (next question: can they be redefined in inner bundles?) ←
15:47:22 <jcheney> See namespace scope rules in http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#expression-NamespaceDeclaration
James Cheney: See namespace scope rules in http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#expression-NamespaceDeclaration ←
15:47:44 <smiles> Luc: Currently in PROV-N, when declaring prefix at top level and want to re-use in nested bundle, have to redeclare prefix in bundle
Luc Moreau: Currently in PROV-N, when declaring prefix at top level and want to re-use in nested bundle, have to redeclare prefix in bundle ←
15:47:48 <jcheney> Currently, this is illegal:
James Cheney: Currently, this is illegal: ←
15:47:53 <jcheney> document prefix ex <http://example.org/> bundle ex:b1 entity(ex:e1, ...someattr1...) entity(ex:e1, ...someattr2...) endBundle endDocument
James Cheney: document prefix ex <http://example.org/> bundle ex:b1 entity(ex:e1, ...someattr1...) entity(ex:e1, ...someattr2...) endBundle endDocument ←
15:48:05 <jcheney> because ex is not re-declared inside the bundle
James Cheney: because ex is not re-declared inside the bundle ←
15:49:02 <smiles> Luc: @GK, yes, prefixes could be redefined in inner bundles
Luc Moreau: @GK, yes, prefixes could be redefined in inner bundles ←
15:49:24 <jcheney> I http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#expression-NamespaceDeclaration
James Cheney: I http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#expression-NamespaceDeclaration ←
15:49:42 <smiles> jcheney: Suggest just changing sentence in PROV-N from "excluding the bundles it may contain" to "including..."
James Cheney: Suggest just changing sentence in PROV-N from "excluding the bundles it may contain" to "including..." ←
15:50:07 <tlebo> reusing throughout and allowing redefinition in inner bundles would make it much more useful for humans to read and write.
Timothy Lebo: reusing throughout and allowing redefinition in inner bundles would make it much more useful for humans to read and write. ←
15:50:13 <smiles> ... People have been writing examples that assume the proposed change without realising
... People have been writing examples that assume the proposed change without realising ←
15:50:14 <GK> Seems to me easier to change the text than the examples
Graham Klyne: Seems to me easier to change the text than the examples ←
15:50:16 <Luc> proposed: change scope of prefix declaration so that it includes bundles
PROPOSED: change scope of prefix declaration so that it includes bundles ←
15:50:36 <satya> +1 to change text
Satya Sahoo: +1 to change text ←
15:50:38 <smiles> +1
+1 ←
15:50:41 <GK> +1
Graham Klyne: +1 ←
15:50:46 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:50:53 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:50:54 <jun> +1
15:50:56 <tlebo> +.5
Timothy Lebo: +.5 ←
15:51:01 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:51:10 <Luc> accepted: change scope of prefix declaration so that it includes bundles
RESOLVED: change scope of prefix declaration so that it includes bundles ←
15:51:31 <smiles> Luc: Next issue: MIME types
Luc Moreau: Next issue: MIME types ←
15:51:44 <smiles> Luc: @GK, did you look at changes implemented?
Luc Moreau: @GK, did you look at changes implemented? ←
15:52:02 <smiles> GK: No
Graham Klyne: No ←
15:52:20 <smiles> Luc: Can you prioritise issue 573?
Luc Moreau: Can you prioritise ISSUE-573? ←
15:52:51 <smiles> Luc: Everything else covered in PROV-N aside from two issues above
Luc Moreau: Everything else covered in PROV-N aside from two issues above ←
15:52:57 <Luc> topic: PROV-DM issues
Summary: the outstanding issue in prov-dm is related to mention (issue-475). A response was circulated during the week. The proposal is to keep the feature marked at risk, and as indicated in the document, make a decision on its suitability based on implementer's feedback. A vote is to be carried out by email (deadline next Tuesday) in time to respond to the reviewer.
<Luc>Summary: the outstanding issue in prov-dm is related to mention (issue-475). A response was circulated during the week. The proposal is to keep the feature marked at risk, and as indicated in the document, make a decision on its suitability based on implementer's feedback. A vote is to be carried out by email (deadline next Tuesday) in time to respond to the reviewer.
15:53:17 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/2
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/2 ←
15:53:37 <smiles> Luc: Two issues waiting for confirmation from reviewers on changes
Luc Moreau: Two issues waiting for confirmation from reviewers on changes ←
15:53:48 <smiles> ... and issue 475 on mention
... and ISSUE-475 on mention ←
15:54:08 <smiles> ... every other change implemented and logged
... every other change implemented and logged ←
15:54:29 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0321.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0321.html ←
15:54:43 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:54:52 <smiles> Luc: Regarding issue 475, did not get response on issue
Luc Moreau: Regarding ISSUE-475, did not get response on issue ←
15:54:52 <jcheney> q-
James Cheney: q- ←
15:55:31 <smiles> Luc: GK suggested dropping this feature at risk
Luc Moreau: GK suggested dropping this feature at risk ←
15:56:04 <smiles> Luc: Conclusion of my response is that we want feedback from implementers
Luc Moreau: Conclusion of my response is that we want feedback from implementers ←
15:56:17 <smiles> ... As we exit CR phase, can look at suitability
... As we exit CR phase, can look at suitability ←
15:56:36 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:56:46 <smiles> Luc: Any feedback now?
Luc Moreau: Any feedback now? ←
15:56:50 <tlebo> +1 to keep it in, marked as at risk.
Timothy Lebo: +1 to keep it in, marked as at risk. ←
15:57:22 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#ISSUE-475_.28Mention.29
Luc Moreau: ISSUE-475_.28Mention.29">http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#ISSUE-475_.28Mention.29 ←
15:57:39 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:57:41 <smiles> Luc: Is the group satisfied with this answer, and to vote now?
Luc Moreau: Is the group satisfied with this answer, and to vote now? ←
15:57:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:58:11 <smiles> ... or vote by email?
... or vote by email? ←
15:58:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:58:26 <smiles> +1 to vote by email
+1 to vote by email ←
15:58:27 <zednik> I like vote by email
Stephan Zednik: I like vote by email ←
15:58:36 <jcheney> +1 email
James Cheney: +1 email ←
15:58:38 <tlebo> vote by email seems to be the resounding response. I know I could use a bit more time to work through it entirely.
Timothy Lebo: vote by email seems to be the resounding response. I know I could use a bit more time to work through it entirely. ←
15:59:18 <smiles> Luc: Will send an email with a deadline
Luc Moreau: Will send an email with a deadline ←
15:59:24 <Luc> topic: prov-xml
Summary: The editors of the prov-xml document have produced a draft of the specification and are now seeking feedback. Luc and James have volunteered to review the document. Other reviewers would be appreciated. The key question is to decide whether the document is ready for release as a fpwd, synchronised with the CR release. It was discussed whether there was time to update the primer with xml examples. The prov-xml team will draft the example in full in xml and will share it with Simon.
<luc>Summary: The editors of the prov-xml document have produced a draft of the specification and are now seeking feedback. Luc and James have volunteered to review the document. Other reviewers would be appreciated. The key question is to decide whether the document is ready for release as a fpwd, synchronised with the CR release. It was discussed whether there was time to update the primer with xml examples. The prov-xml team will draft the example in full in xml and will share it with Simon.
16:00:06 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
16:00:17 <smiles> zednik: We have made significant changes to XML note, including table of features mapping PROV-DM to XSD, plus examples with excerpts of schema
Stephan Zednik: We have made significant changes to XML note, including table of features mapping PROV-DM to XSD, plus examples with excerpts of schema ←
16:00:40 <zednik> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/1816251fd592/xml/prov-xml.html
Stephan Zednik: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/1816251fd592/xml/prov-xml.html ←
16:00:46 <smiles> ... Now looking for feedback on the HTML
... Now looking for feedback on the HTML ←
16:01:48 <smiles> Luc: Thanks. There is an opportunity to release first WD of this doc with CRs of other specs. Will it be ready?
Luc Moreau: Thanks. There is an opportunity to release first WD of this doc with CRs of other specs. Will it be ready? ←
16:02:23 <smiles> ... Next week we would take a vote, discuss with W3C management to publish CRs, so two weeks for XML document before publishing
... Next week we would take a vote, discuss with W3C management to publish CRs, so two weeks for XML document before publishing ←
16:02:52 <smiles> zednik: Probably get ready in two weeks, but need to address WG comments, ensure there is no gaps (e.g. bundles)
Stephan Zednik: Probably get ready in two weeks, but need to address WG comments, ensure there is no gaps (e.g. bundles) ←
16:03:12 <smiles> Luc: Would be nice to have review taking place during week
Luc Moreau: Would be nice to have review taking place during week ←
16:03:17 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aabb ←
16:03:24 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:03:32 <jcheney> sure
James Cheney: sure ←
16:03:34 <smiles> ... Who is willing to review PROV-XML document?
... Who is willing to review PROV-XML document? ←
16:03:45 <tlebo> one what timeframe?
Timothy Lebo: one what timeframe? ←
16:03:46 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aadd ←
16:04:02 <tlebo> thanks. Then no :-)
Timothy Lebo: thanks. Then no :-) ←
16:04:03 <smiles> Luc: Feedback in time for F2F
Luc Moreau: Feedback in time for F2F ←
16:04:19 <smiles> ... Question for reviewers: Can we release this document as a FPWD
... Question for reviewers: Can we release this document as a FPWD ←
16:05:06 <smiles> Luc: Intent to include XML in primer. Feasible to include for release?
Luc Moreau: Intent to include XML in primer. Feasible to include for release? ←
16:05:51 <smiles> smiles: For primer, if given XML fragments, then quick job to add
Simon Miles: For primer, if given XML fragments, then quick job to add ←
16:06:07 <smiles> zednik: Possibly, but need to look at examples in primer
Stephan Zednik: Possibly, but need to look at examples in primer ←
16:06:20 <GK> @luc - the text/provenance-notation MIME registration revisions look fine to me at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#media-type
Graham Klyne: @luc - the text/provenance-notation MIME registration revisions look fine to me at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#media-type ←
16:06:24 <hook> might need to check latest fragments for bundles per recent updates
Hook Hua: might need to check latest fragments for bundles per recent updates ←
16:06:36 <Zakim> -CraigTrim
Zakim IRC Bot: -CraigTrim ←
16:06:37 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
16:06:39 <Zakim> -smiles
Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←
16:06:45 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aaa]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.aaa] ←
16:06:47 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:06:50 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aadd ←
16:06:51 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a] ←
16:06:51 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.aa] ←
16:07:16 <Zakim> -GK1
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK1 ←
16:07:17 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended ←
16:07:17 <Zakim> Attendees were Luc, [IPcaller], +1.315.330.aaaa, tlebo, MacTed, +1.818.731.aabb, smiles, GK1, +1.661.382.aacc, CraigTrim, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Luc, [IPcaller], +1.315.330.aaaa, tlebo, MacTed, +1.818.731.aabb, smiles, GK1, +1.661.382.aacc, CraigTrim, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aadd ←
16:07:18 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:07:22 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:07:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#3) generated 2012-11-01 21:14:51 UTC by 'lmoreau', comments: None