The group welcomed Ivan as the new W3C staff contact and he introduced himself.
Several reviews have been supplied for PROV-Constraints. Stian will have his done this week. James believes that all comments so far can be succesfully addressed. The plan is to deliver a new version early next week for a Last Call vote at the next telecon. Two specific issues were discussed. The group agreed that issue 458 was addressed by leaving out the constraint making wasInfluencedBy irreflexive. The group discussed whether there should be an inference to say that any subtypes of agents were also entities. The group felt that adding this constraint would need more discussion and given the timetable should not be added.
Stephan gave an update. All constructs for prov-xml have now be assigned in order to produce examples by Aug 15. Stephan will give an update as to whether more help is required on this task next week as he works through the examples.
Daniel asked for reviews of the recently released dublin core - prov mappings editor's draft. Sam, Simon, Tom and Ivan agreed to look at it. Additionally, Daniel agreed to add a link to the turtle file that encodes these mappings. They can then be placed in the ns namespace.
Ivan gave an update on handling public comments, in particular, what constitutes a technical change. Essentially, it is a judgement call but the technical design should not change. There was a particular question around renaming a construct in PROV-O, this is not considered a technical change as it does not impact the design. The process for tracking public comments was discussed. Ivan suggested that perhaps creating new products would be a better approach. However, the group agreed that the current process was ok.
14:49:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-prov-irc ←
14:49:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:49:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:49:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:49:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:49:33 <trackbot> Date: 02 August 2012
14:49:36 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:49:36 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes ←
14:49:52 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.08.02
14:50:30 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:50:44 <pgroth> Scribe: Daniel Garijo
(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)
14:50:50 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:50:56 <pgroth> Regrets: Luc Moreau
14:57:17 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:57:24 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
14:57:31 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P2 is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, ??P2 is me ←
14:57:31 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
14:59:19 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:00:07 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:00:18 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aaaa ←
15:00:18 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
15:00:24 <jun> zakim, ??p10 is me
Jun Zhao: zakim, ??p10 is me ←
15:00:24 <Zakim> +jun; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it ←
15:00:34 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aabb ←
15:00:38 <TomDN> Zakim, +329 is me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, +329 is me ←
15:00:38 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aacc ←
15:00:47 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aadd ←
15:00:50 <TomDN> Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN
Tom De Nies: Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN ←
15:00:50 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←
15:00:53 <tlebo> zakim, I am aadd
Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aadd ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
15:01:04 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
15:01:14 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:01:14 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:01:15 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> +tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo ←
15:01:35 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted ←
15:01:49 <tlebo> I'll scribe
Timothy Lebo: I'll scribe ←
15:01:55 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
Summary: The group welcomed Ivan as the new W3C staff contact and he introduced himself.
<pgroth> Summary: The group welcomed Ivan as the new W3C staff contact and he introduced himself.
15:02:01 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-07-26
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-07-26 ←
15:02:01 <tlebo> scribe: tlebo
(Scribe set to Timothy Lebo)
15:02:10 <pgroth> Minutes of the July 26, 2012 Telecon
Paul Groth: Minutes of the July 26, 2012 Telecon ←
15:02:17 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:02:18 <TomDN> +1
Tom De Nies: +1 ←
15:02:18 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:02:19 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:02:19 <tlebo> proposal: accept minutes
PROPOSED: accept minutes ←
15:02:26 <jun> +1
15:02:27 <hook> +1
15:02:39 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:02:41 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:02:45 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:02:53 <pgroth> accepted: Minutes of the July 26, 2012 Telecon
RESOLVED: Minutes of the July 26, 2012 Telecon ←
15:03:19 <tlebo> topic: action items
Summary: Several reviews have been supplied for PROV-Constraints. Stian will have his done this week. James believes that all comments so far can be succesfully addressed. The plan is to deliver a new version early next week for a Last Call vote at the next telecon. Two specific issues were discussed. The group agreed that issue 458 was addressed by leaving out the constraint making wasInfluencedBy irreflexive. The group discussed whether there should be an inference to say that any subtypes of agents were also entities. The group felt that adding this constraint would need more discussion and given the timetable should not be added.
15:03:38 <tlebo> paul: is still working on his action
Paul Groth: is still working on his action ←
15:03:50 <tlebo> ... Ivan is joining the WG as W3C POC
... Ivan is joining the WG as W3C POC ←
15:04:08 <tlebo> ivan: hi!
Ivan Herman: hi! ←
15:04:24 <tlebo> ... sandro will be doing a bit in Aug, but Ivan will be around and back from vacation
... sandro will be doing a bit in Aug, but Ivan will be around and back from vacation ←
15:04:36 <tlebo> ... working through all of our documents now.
... working through all of our documents now. ←
15:04:52 <Zakim> + +44.131.467.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.131.467.aaee ←
15:05:00 <tlebo> paul: please sign up for scribes
Paul Groth: please sign up for scribes ←
15:05:03 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
15:05:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, ??P8, jun, TomDN (muted), Curt_Tilmes, +1.818.731.aabb, +44.789.470.aacc, Ivan, tlebo, ??P17, +44.131.467.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, ??P8, jun, TomDN (muted), Curt_Tilmes, +1.818.731.aabb, +44.789.470.aacc, Ivan, tlebo, ??P17, +44.131.467.aaee ←
15:05:04 <Zakim> TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens ←
15:05:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcheney, zednik, tlebo, SamCoppens, jun, hook, smiles, Curt, TomDN, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, ivan, stain, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see jcheney, zednik, tlebo, SamCoppens, jun, hook, smiles, Curt, TomDN, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, ivan, stain, trackbot, sandro ←
15:05:09 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:05:10 <tlebo> ... aob?
... aob? ←
15:05:29 <tlebo> ivan: get unknowns identified
Ivan Herman: get unknowns identified ←
15:05:42 <jcheney> zakim, aaee is me
James Cheney: zakim, aaee is me ←
15:05:42 <tlebo> paul: who is P8?
Paul Groth: who is P8? ←
15:05:47 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
15:06:03 <smiles> or me
Simon Miles: or me ←
15:06:05 <jun> not me
15:06:14 <smiles> zakim, P8 is probably me
Simon Miles: zakim, P8 is probably me ←
15:06:17 <stain> Zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me ←
15:06:21 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
15:06:23 <Zakim> sorry, smiles, I do not understand your question
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, smiles, I do not understand your question ←
15:06:24 <stain> he knew me last week!
Stian Soiland-Reyes: he knew me last week! ←
15:06:25 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
15:06:26 <smiles> zakim, ??P8 is probably me
Simon Miles: zakim, ??P8 is probably me ←
15:06:30 <tlebo> 818 is san fran
818 is san fran ←
15:06:31 <Zakim> +smiles?; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles?; got it ←
15:06:31 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-Constraints
Paul Groth: Topic: PROV-Constraints ←
<pgroth> Summary: Several reviews have been supplied for PROV-Constraints. Stian will have his done this week. James believes that all comments so far can be succesfully addressed. The plan is to deliver a new version early next week for a Last Call vote at the next telecon. Two specific issues were discussed. The group agreed that issue 458 was addressed by leaving out the constraint making wasInfluencedBy irreflexive. The group discussed whether there should be an inference to say that any subtypes of agents were also entities. The group felt that adding this constraint would need more discussion and given the timetable should not be added.
15:07:10 <tlebo> jcheney: read reviews as they came in. They seem to identify things that we can fix easily.
James Cheney: read reviews as they came in. They seem to identify things that we can fix easily. ←
15:07:12 <pgroth> james?
Paul Groth: james? ←
15:07:16 <tlebo> ... not sig technical changes.
... not sig technical changes. ←
15:07:16 <pgroth> i lost my connection..
Paul Groth: i lost my connection.. ←
15:07:35 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
15:07:41 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
15:07:43 <tlebo> q+ to ask what the constraints timeline is
q+ to ask what the constraints timeline is ←
15:07:44 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P9 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←
15:07:45 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
15:07:57 <tlebo> go ahead, James
go ahead, James ←
15:08:02 <dgarijo> is there a scribe? I can scribe.
Daniel Garijo: is there a scribe? I can scribe. ←
15:08:08 <tlebo> @dgarijo you take scribe
@dgarijo you take scribe ←
15:08:11 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
15:08:11 <tlebo> scribe: dgarijo
(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)
15:08:13 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
15:08:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see smiles?, jun, TomDN (muted), Curt_Tilmes, +1.818.731.aabb, stain, Ivan, tlebo, ??P17, jcheney, Satya_Sahoo, dgarijo, ??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see smiles?, jun, TomDN (muted), Curt_Tilmes, +1.818.731.aabb, stain, Ivan, tlebo, ??P17, jcheney, Satya_Sahoo, dgarijo, ??P22 ←
15:08:15 <dgarijo> ok
ok ←
15:08:16 <Zakim> TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens ←
15:08:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see dgarijo, satya, jcheney, zednik, tlebo, SamCoppens, jun, hook, smiles, Curt, TomDN, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, ivan, stain, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dgarijo, satya, jcheney, zednik, tlebo, SamCoppens, jun, hook, smiles, Curt, TomDN, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, ivan, stain, trackbot, sandro ←
15:08:28 <stain> I am almost finished today
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I am almost finished today ←
15:08:29 <dgarijo> jcheney: waiting for 1 outstanding review from stian
James Cheney: waiting for 1 outstanding review from stian ←
15:08:36 <stain> typing in my evil email..
Stian Soiland-Reyes: typing in my evil email.. ←
15:08:37 <tlebo> q?
Timothy Lebo: q? ←
15:08:44 <ivan> zakim, ??P22 is pgroth
Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P22 is pgroth ←
15:08:44 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
15:09:10 <dgarijo> ... plan is review things early next week in order to be able to have a vote next meeting
... plan is review things early next week in order to be able to have a vote next meeting ←
15:09:19 <dgarijo> ... and just worry about minor stuff from there
... and just worry about minor stuff from there ←
15:09:26 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:09:31 <tlebo> so, we're voting on this next Thus?
Timothy Lebo: so, we're voting on this next Thus? ←
15:09:46 <dgarijo> tlebo: are we voting on this next thursday?
Timothy Lebo: are we voting on this next thursday? ←
15:09:49 <dgarijo> pgroth: yes
Paul Groth: yes ←
15:10:07 <dgarijo> tlebo: ok, I'll look for responses next week.
Timothy Lebo: ok, I'll look for responses next week. ←
15:10:19 <dgarijo> tlebo: I'll be looking for those
Timothy Lebo: I'll be looking for those ←
15:10:25 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:10:32 <dgarijo> pgroth: in my review there were no blockers
Paul Groth: in my review there were no blockers ←
15:10:34 <tlebo> @jcheney they're mini blockers :-)
Timothy Lebo: @jcheney they're mini blockers :-) ←
15:10:42 <tlebo> q-
Timothy Lebo: q- ←
15:10:45 <stain> I think my review has a tiny blocker .. :-/
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think my review has a tiny blocker .. :-/ ←
15:10:48 <stain> but editorial
Stian Soiland-Reyes: but editorial ←
15:10:48 <dgarijo> pgroth: Issue 458
15:10:49 <ivan> issue-458?
15:10:49 <trackbot> ISSUE-458 -- wasInfluencedBy is not irreflexive -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-458 -- wasInfluencedBy is not irreflexive -- raised ←
15:10:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/458
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/458 ←
15:11:01 <dgarijo> ... is influence reflexive or not
... is influence reflexive or not ←
15:11:05 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/458
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/458 ←
15:11:24 <pgroth> yes
Paul Groth: yes ←
15:11:27 <tlebo> I was the biggest proponent of irreflexive, and I'm no longer protesting to removing it.
Timothy Lebo: I was the biggest proponent of irreflexive, and I'm no longer protesting to removing it. ←
15:11:32 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:11:38 <smiles> I agree with removing the constraint
Simon Miles: I agree with removing the constraint ←
15:11:40 <dgarijo> jcheney: does anybody objects to removing that constraint?
James Cheney: does anybody objects to removing that constraint? ←
15:11:40 <tlebo> (so it's all good)
Timothy Lebo: (so it's all good) ←
15:11:45 <dgarijo> ... OK, closed
... OK, closed ←
15:12:11 <tlebo> @dgarijo "accepted" is the keyword for a resolution
Timothy Lebo: @dgarijo "accepted" is the keyword for a resolution ←
15:12:24 <dgarijo> @tlebo, thanks.
@tlebo, thanks. ←
15:12:31 <pgroth> Agent(ex:Luc,[prov;type='prov:Person']) Activity(ex:Luc)
Paul Groth: Agent(ex:Luc,[prov;type='prov:Person']) Activity(ex:Luc) ←
15:12:46 <TomDN> +q
Tom De Nies: +q ←
15:12:55 <TomDN> zakim, unmute me
Tom De Nies: zakim, unmute me ←
15:12:55 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted ←
15:13:01 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:13:06 <dgarijo> pgroth: the other issue was agent being an activity as well. Should we allow that in the constraints?
Paul Groth: the other issue was agent being an activity as well. Should we allow that in the constraints? ←
15:13:25 <stain> would that imply also Activity(ex:Luc,[prov:type='prov:Person'])
Stian Soiland-Reyes: would that imply also Activity(ex:Luc,[prov:type='prov:Person']) ←
15:13:44 <dgarijo> tom: I haven't followed the email about it, but agent can also be an entity.
Tom De Nies: I haven't followed the email about it, but agent can also be an entity. ←
15:14:04 <dgarijo> pgroth: if you assert that Luc is an entity, it can't be an activity.
Paul Groth: if you assert that Luc is an entity, it can't be an activity. ←
15:14:14 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:14:24 <pgroth> ack TomDN
Paul Groth: ack TomDN ←
15:14:35 <dgarijo> jcheney: I'm agnostic. It won't break anything to allow people to say that.
James Cheney: I'm agnostic. It won't break anything to allow people to say that. ←
15:14:35 <tlebo> from the hip, I think we shouldn't add this.
Timothy Lebo: from the hip, I think we shouldn't add this. ←
15:14:45 <stain> agent(ex:workflowEngine, [prov:type='prov:SoftwareAgent']) activity(ex:workflowEngine) would probably make more sense in some cases
Stian Soiland-Reyes: agent(ex:workflowEngine, [prov:type='prov:SoftwareAgent']) activity(ex:workflowEngine) would probably make more sense in some cases ←
15:15:04 <dgarijo> smiles: I agree with what Tom says. If an agent is a person, then we can infer it's a person.
Simon Miles: I agree with what Tom says. If an agent is a person, then we can infer it's a person. ←
15:15:05 <pgroth> ack smiles
Paul Groth: ack smiles ←
15:15:32 <dgarijo> pgroth: that will imply that all persons are entities.
Paul Groth: that will imply that all persons are entities. ←
15:15:43 <TomDN> it could be an inference, and normalization would always produce agent(Luc, [prov:Person]) -> entity(Luc)
Tom De Nies: it could be an inference, and normalization would always produce agent(Luc, [prov:Person]) -> entity(Luc) ←
15:16:06 <stain> used(food, ex:Luc) wasAssociatedWith(ex:cooking, ex:Luc) wasGeneratedBy(ex:food, ex:cooking)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: used(food, ex:Luc) wasAssociatedWith(ex:cooking, ex:Luc) wasGeneratedBy(ex:food, ex:cooking) ←
15:16:22 <dgarijo> pgroth: if we want it, then we could add that inference.
Paul Groth: if we want it, then we could add that inference. ←
15:16:25 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:16:48 <dgarijo> tlebo: surprised of the proposal. Is it an issue that went through the list
Timothy Lebo: surprised of the proposal. Is it an issue that went through the list ←
15:16:49 <dgarijo> ?
? ←
15:16:52 <stain> yes, should be a proper issue!
Stian Soiland-Reyes: yes, should be a proper issue! ←
15:17:11 <jcheney> q+
James Cheney: q+ ←
15:17:36 <dgarijo> pgroth: we can discuss it on the list, but I was wondering if we could just drop it or discuss it a bit here.
Paul Groth: we can discuss it on the list, but I was wondering if we could just drop it or discuss it a bit here. ←
15:17:41 <pgroth> ack jcheney
Paul Groth: ack jcheney ←
15:17:41 <stain> can animals be activities? lifeforms?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: can animals be activities? lifeforms? ←
15:17:43 <TomDN> machines shouldn't be activities either...
Tom De Nies: machines shouldn't be activities either... ←
15:18:13 <satya> @TomDN, assuming that machines are "hardware"
Satya Sahoo: @TomDN, assuming that machines are "hardware" ←
15:18:48 <tlebo> why single out Person? Why are Organizations allowed to be Activities?
Timothy Lebo: why single out Person? Why are Organizations allowed to be Activities? ←
15:18:48 <stain> a human is in some sense just a system of biological activities working together
Stian Soiland-Reyes: a human is in some sense just a system of biological activities working together ←
15:18:53 <dgarijo> jcheney: we should be removing things as much as possible.
James Cheney: we should be removing things as much as possible. ←
15:19:22 <Curt> There was a use case of something like a "working group" which is both an agent and an activity (I disagree with that)
Curt Tilmes: There was a use case of something like a "working group" which is both an agent and an activity (I disagree with that) ←
15:19:25 <dgarijo> pgroth: even if we don't include something like that I don't know if we can add this after last call.
Paul Groth: even if we don't include something like that I don't know if we can add this after last call. ←
15:19:33 <dgarijo> pgroth: Ivan, can we do that.
Paul Groth: Ivan, can we do that. ←
15:19:44 <dgarijo> Ivan: that would be a technical change.
Ivan Herman: that would be a technical change. ←
15:19:54 <stain> Curt: but then this all falls back to "are there *any* agents that can be activities?"
Curt Tilmes: but then this all falls back to "are there *any* agents that can be activities?" [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
15:20:01 <dgarijo> ... but constraints is not in last call.
... but constraints is not in last call. ←
15:20:03 <stain> @Curt
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @Curt ←
15:21:12 <dgarijo> pgroth: so I think james is right. This is going to open up a lot of discussion and given our time line, we should not add it yet.
Paul Groth: so I think james is right. This is going to open up a lot of discussion and given our time line, we should not add it yet. ←
15:21:13 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:21:16 <Curt> +1 pgroth
Curt Tilmes: +1 pgroth ←
15:21:23 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:21:24 <tlebo> @pgroth that's a good response: add the explicit type Entity
Timothy Lebo: @pgroth that's a good response: add the explicit type Entity ←
15:21:28 <stain> I think it would not cause any problems to not say something rather than to say something. It does not affect anything else in the constraints if the prov:Person is an activity or not, and PROV-Constraints is not attempting to model the world, just how processes and things are modelled in a sane way
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think it would not cause any problems to not say something rather than to say something. It does not affect anything else in the constraints if the prov:Person is an activity or not, and PROV-Constraints is not attempting to model the world, just how processes and things are modelled in a sane way ←
15:21:30 <TomDN> @pgroth: +1, could we add that as a remark?
Tom De Nies: @pgroth: +1, could we add that as a remark? ←
15:21:48 <dgarijo> ... if anybody wants to assert that persons are not activities, then they can assert it.
... if anybody wants to assert that persons are not activities, then they can assert it. ←
15:22:00 <dgarijo> +1 to pgroth.
+1 to pgroth. ←
15:22:20 <dgarijo> jcheney: I will review questions. I don't have anything more specific
James Cheney: I will review questions. I don't have anything more specific ←
15:22:28 <pgroth> Topic: Prox-xml
Summary: Stephan gave an update. All constructs for prov-xml have now be assigned in order to produce examples by Aug 15. Stephan will give an update as to whether more help is required on this task next week as he works through the examples.
<pgroth> Summary: Stephan gave an update. All constructs for prov-xml have now be assigned in order to produce examples by Aug 15. Stephan will give an update as to whether more help is required on this task next week as he works through the examples.
15:23:10 <Curt> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aon9DSj-WtGqdHJocGtPRGp5MTItbEhLX09sN1NxVVE#gid=0
Curt Tilmes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aon9DSj-WtGqdHJocGtPRGp5MTItbEhLX09sN1NxVVE#gid=0 ←
15:23:22 <dgarijo> szednik: We are going to try to have xml examples by august 15th.
Stephan Zednik: We are going to try to have xml examples by august 15th. ←
15:23:35 <dgarijo> ... hopefully next week.
... hopefully next week. ←
15:23:41 <dgarijo> pgroth: any additional help?
Paul Groth: any additional help? ←
15:24:04 <dgarijo> szednik: I'll be able to say next week, when I've taken a stab at it
Stephan Zednik: I'll be able to say next week, when I've taken a stab at it ←
15:24:17 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:24:31 <Curt> (anyone who wants the doc, just request it through google docs and stephan will approve)
Curt Tilmes: (anyone who wants the doc, just request it through google docs and stephan will approve) ←
15:24:35 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-DC
Summary: Daniel asked for reviews of the recently released dublin core - prov mappings editor's draft. Sam, Simon, Tom and Ivan agreed to look at it. Additionally, Daniel agreed to add a link to the turtle file that encodes these mappings. They can then be placed in the ns namespace.
<pgroth> Summary: Daniel asked for reviews of the recently released dublin core - prov mappings editor's draft. Sam, Simon, Tom and Ivan agreed to look at it. Additionally, Daniel agreed to add a link to the turtle file that encodes these mappings. They can then be placed in the ns namespace.
15:24:41 <pgroth> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/6b795ed2e6c9/dc-note/Overview.html
Paul Groth: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/6b795ed2e6c9/dc-note/Overview.html ←
15:24:45 <ivan> (Curt, I did it)
Ivan Herman: (Curt, I did it) ←
15:25:05 <tlebo> dgarijo: releaed it last week into hg
Daniel Garijo: releaed it last week into hg [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:25:20 <tlebo> ... asking those to reviewed last time to see if they agree to the changes.
Timothy Lebo: ... asking those to reviewed last time to see if they agree to the changes. ←
15:25:29 <tlebo> .. please raise issues
Timothy Lebo: .. please raise issues ←
15:25:33 <tlebo> ... document is not long.
Timothy Lebo: ... document is not long. ←
15:25:49 <tlebo> pgroth: reviewers?
Paul Groth: reviewers? [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:25:53 <SamCoppens> I will
Sam Coppens: I will ←
15:25:54 <smiles> I will review it
Simon Miles: I will review it ←
15:25:57 <TomDN> I started on a review
Tom De Nies: I started on a review ←
15:26:04 <dgarijo> thanks!!
thanks!! ←
15:26:14 <ivan> I will also look at it
Ivan Herman: I will also look at it ←
15:26:15 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:26:22 <pgroth> ack ivan
Paul Groth: ack ivan ←
15:26:56 <tlebo> ivan: turtle file to put into /ns?
Ivan Herman: turtle file to put into /ns? [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:27:26 <tlebo> dgarijo: the turtle files is in hg, will send the link.
Daniel Garijo: the turtle files is in hg, will send the link. [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:27:38 <tlebo> pgroth: add link to turtle file?
Paul Groth: add link to turtle file? [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:28:08 <tlebo> ivan: where to put final version of turtle file?
Ivan Herman: where to put final version of turtle file? [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:29:00 <dgarijo> dgarijo: I will add the links to the turtel files of each example in the repository. They are there but not linked in the document.
Daniel Garijo: I will add the links to the turtel files of each example in the repository. They are there but not linked in the document. ←
15:29:01 <tlebo> pgroth: the WG also needs to make the full concat for prov.owl with prov-o in it.
Paul Groth: the WG also needs to make the full concat for prov.owl with prov-o in it. [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:29:10 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:29:16 <tlebo> @pgroth me too :-)
Timothy Lebo: @pgroth me too :-) ←
15:29:26 <pgroth> Topic: Handling Comments
Summary: Ivan gave an update on handling public comments, in particular, what constitutes a technical change. Essentially, it is a judgement call but the technical design should not change. There was a particular question around renaming a construct in PROV-O, this is not considered a technical change as it does not impact the design. The process for tracking public comments was discussed. Ivan suggested that perhaps creating new products would be a better approach. However, the group agreed that the current process was ok.
<pgroth> Summary: Ivan gave an update on handling public comments, in particular, what constitutes a technical change. Essentially, it is a judgement call but the technical design should not change. There was a particular question around renaming a construct in PROV-O, this is not considered a technical change as it does not impact the design. The process for tracking public comments was discussed. Ivan suggested that perhaps creating new products would be a better approach. However, the group agreed that the current process was ok.
15:29:40 <dgarijo> pgroth: we discussed last week how to handle public comments
Paul Groth: we discussed last week how to handle public comments ←
15:30:03 <dgarijo> pgroth: there was a question about what is a technical comment
Paul Groth: there was a question about what is a technical comment ←
15:30:24 <dgarijo> ... ivan and sandro talked to thomas and have an update.
... ivan and sandro talked to thomas and have an update. ←
15:31:02 <dgarijo> ivan: the general point is to remind that the last call means that the design is done. Renaming is an editorial change.
Ivan Herman: the general point is to remind that the last call means that the design is done. Renaming is an editorial change. ←
15:31:18 <dgarijo> ... I don't see any problem in this particular case.
... I don't see any problem in this particular case. ←
15:31:40 <dgarijo> ... if this change came when we were in CR it would be more problematic.
... if this change came when we were in CR it would be more problematic. ←
15:31:41 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:31:49 <tlebo> ivan: changing property name is an editorial change. sees no problem with this. Will need to be more cautious as we go further. naame change in CR is impossible b/c it breaks implementations.
Ivan Herman: changing property name is an editorial change. sees no problem with this. Will need to be more cautious as we go further. name change in CR is impossible b/c it breaks implementations. [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:32:04 <ivan> s/naame/name/
15:32:24 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Tracking_Public_Comments
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Tracking_Public_Comments ←
15:32:53 <dgarijo> pgroth: the idea behind this wiki page is that we will create a new issue for each comment we receive, to keep good track of them.
Paul Groth: the idea behind this wiki page is that we will create a new issue for each comment we receive, to keep good track of them. ←
15:33:22 <dgarijo> ... add the issues in the wikipage as well. Is that good enough?
... add the issues in the wikipage as well. Is that good enough? ←
15:34:21 <dgarijo> ivan: that will work. Each group decides how to handle this themselves: raise a separate product to deal with comments, to mantain a single table in the wiki, etc.
Ivan Herman: that will work. Each group decides how to handle this themselves: raise a separate product to deal with comments, to mantain a single table in the wiki, etc. ←
15:34:37 <tlebo> having a new product seems to make sense, the "dm/o/paq" distinctions are less important now.
Timothy Lebo: having a new product seems to make sense, the "dm/o/paq" distinctions are less important now. ←
15:34:58 <tlebo> Including a link to their email approving our response is a good idea.
Timothy Lebo: Including a link to their email approving our response is a good idea. ←
15:35:06 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:35:14 <dgarijo> pgroth: a new product is fine, but having a last call product for each deliverable would make a busy tracker.
Paul Groth: a new product is fine, but having a last call product for each deliverable would make a busy tracker. ←
15:35:25 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:35:29 <dgarijo> ivan: i don't have a strong opinion, but what you say is right,.
Ivan Herman: i don't have a strong opinion, but what you say is right,. ←
15:35:36 <stain> other trackers have 'versions' for that particular problem
Stian Soiland-Reyes: other trackers have 'versions' for that particular problem ←
15:36:13 <dgarijo> ivan: one more thing: If I look at the wiki page right now I still have to go to each individual issue to see if they are closed or not.
Ivan Herman: one more thing: If I look at the wiki page right now I still have to go to each individual issue to see if they are closed or not. ←
15:36:39 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:36:46 <dgarijo> ... add for each entry whether the issue is closed in the wiki page.
... add for each entry whether the issue is closed in the wiki page. ←
15:36:59 <stain> I think it should be managable
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think it should be managable ←
15:37:15 <dgarijo> I agree with Stian.
I agree with Stian. ←
15:37:20 <jun> whatever works for you, Paul. Fine with either way
Jun Zhao: whatever works for you, Paul. Fine with either way ←
15:37:31 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:37:34 <dgarijo> not to create a product for each deliverable, it's too much IMO.
not to create a product for each deliverable, it's too much IMO. ←
15:37:41 <dgarijo> pgroth: AOB?
Paul Groth: AOB? ←
15:37:56 <tlebo> bye!
Timothy Lebo: bye! ←
15:37:57 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
15:37:59 <Zakim> -smiles
Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←
15:38:00 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
15:38:00 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
15:38:01 <Zakim> -jun
Zakim IRC Bot: -jun ←
15:38:02 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
15:38:03 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
15:38:03 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
15:38:04 <Zakim> -??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17 ←
15:38:07 <Zakim> -TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN ←
15:38:08 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:38:16 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
15:38:21 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aabb ←
15:38:22 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended ←
15:38:22 <Zakim> Attendees were pgroth, +329331aaaa, Curt_Tilmes, jun, +1.818.731.aabb, TomDN, +1.315.330.aadd, SamCoppens, tlebo, Ivan, +44.131.467.aaee, jcheney, Satya_Sahoo, stain, smiles?,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgroth, +329331aaaa, Curt_Tilmes, jun, +1.818.731.aabb, TomDN, +1.315.330.aadd, SamCoppens, tlebo, Ivan, +44.131.467.aaee, jcheney, Satya_Sahoo, stain, smiles?, ←
15:38:22 <Zakim> ... dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: ... dgarijo ←
15:38:30 <pgroth> rrsagent, set lots public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, set lots public ←
15:38:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'set lots public', pgroth. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'set lots public', pgroth. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
15:38:41 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public ←
15:38:47 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:38:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-prov-minutes.html pgroth
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-prov-minutes.html pgroth ←
15:38:54 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
Paul Groth: trackbot, end telcon ←
15:38:54 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
15:38:54 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is ←
15:39:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
15:39:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
15:39:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
15:39:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2012-08-02 16:05:32 UTC by 'pgroth', comments: 'updated with summaries and irc fixes'