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Chatlog 2013-01-31
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14:55:00 <cygri> scribe: olyerickson 14:55:00 <cygri> scribe: fadmaa 14:55:00 <cygri> chair: fadmaa 14:55:00 <cygri> present: fadmaa, olyerickson, MakxDekkers, cygri, TallTed, martin, gatemezing 14:58:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld 14:58:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-gld-irc 14:58:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:58:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld 14:58:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD 14:58:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started 14:58:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference 14:58:14 <trackbot> Date: 31 January 2013 14:58:30 <fadmaa> Zakim, who is here? 14:58:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see +3539149aaaa 14:58:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, fadmaa, olyerickson, TallTed, trackbot, sandro 14:58:38 <fadmaa> Zakim, +353 is me 14:58:38 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it 15:00:03 <martin_> martin_ has joined #gld 15:00:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 15:00:37 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software 15:00:38 <olyerickson> zakim, {ipcaller] is me. 15:00:38 <Zakim> sorry, olyerickson, I do not recognize a party named '{ipcaller]' 15:00:45 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily mez, mute me 15:00:45 <Zakim> I don't understand you, TallTed 15:00:51 <olyerickson> zakim, [ipcaller] is me. 15:00:51 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it 15:00:52 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:00:52 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it 15:00:54 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me 15:00:54 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted 15:01:09 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here? 15:01:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, olyerickson, TallTed (muted) 15:01:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see martin_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fadmaa, olyerickson, TallTed, trackbot, sandro 15:01:12 <Zakim> +gatemezi 15:01:25 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Govt Linked Data WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20130131 15:01:30 <Zakim> +??P18 15:01:32 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld 15:01:40 <gatemezing> gatemezing has joined #gld 15:01:43 <martin_> zakim, ??p18 is me 15:01:43 <Zakim> +martin_; got it 15:02:00 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me 15:02:00 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted 15:02:01 <cygri> zakim, who is here? 15:02:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, olyerickson, TallTed, gatemezi, martin_ 15:02:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see gatemezing, cygri, martin_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fadmaa, olyerickson, TallTed, trackbot, sandro 15:02:12 <gatemezing> Hi all.. 15:03:10 <cygri> cool. i'm dialling in 15:03:31 <Zakim> +cygri 15:03:40 <Zakim> -fadmaa 15:03:47 <TallTed> do you have a link to the DCAT related doc(s)? 15:04:01 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the call? 15:04:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see olyerickson, TallTed, gatemezi, martin_, cygri 15:04:11 <cygri> zakim, fadmaa is with me 15:04:11 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it 15:04:15 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Govt Linked Data WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/ - normal calls resume 2013-02-07. 2013-01-31 call focuses on DCAT 15:05:53 <TallTed> Zakim mute me 15:06:00 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me 15:06:00 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted 15:06:01 <MakxDekkers> MakxDekkers has joined #gld 15:06:12 <olyerickson> I still hear an echo from cygri (but if I listen carefully I can hear) 15:06:39 <olyerickson> Topic: DCAT status update 15:06:40 <fadmaa> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/dcat/index.html 15:06:52 <cygri> Latest working draft: http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/ 15:06:56 <olyerickson> * New Confoirmance section 15:07:02 <cygri> Latest editor's draft: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/dcat/index.html 15:07:21 <olyerickson> * Issue to discuss: dcat:accessURL 15:07:24 <cygri> Editor's draft of use cases and requirements: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/dcat-ucr/index.html 15:07:25 <gatemezing> s/Confoirmance/Conformance 15:07:26 <Zakim> + +1.284.653.aabb 15:07:38 <fadmaa> properties to add to dcat:Distribution 15:07:38 <olyerickson> * Issue to discuss: dcat: distribution 15:07:48 <cygri> zakim, aabb is MakxDekkers 15:07:48 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers; got it 15:07:48 <fadmaa> fadmaa: dc:title dc:license dc:issued dc:modified 15:08:20 <cygri> zakim, who is talking? 15:08:31 <Zakim> cygri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gatemezi (29%), cygri (66%) 15:08:49 <cygri> DCAT open issues: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/products/2 15:09:03 <Zakim> -TallTed 15:09:43 <cygri> zakim, mute gatemezi 15:09:43 <Zakim> gatemezi should now be muted 15:09:51 <olyerickson> YES! 15:09:57 <martin_> �much better 15:09:59 <olyerickson> THANKS! 15:10:50 <olyerickson> Remind what are the "two" 15:11:10 <olyerickson> accessURL and Distribution? 15:11:22 <cygri> �/me gatemezing, you need to say "unmute gatemezi" to talk. don't know what's up with the two different names 15:11:41 <olyerickson> * can close ISSUE-12 15:12:07 <fadmaa> Issue-12 is about format of distribution 15:12:27 <fadmaa> we decided to add ameiaType property with the standardised values from IANA 15:12:30 <cygri> topic: Action review 15:12:36 <olyerickson> * can close ACTION-39 15:12:43 <cygri> close ACTION-39 15:12:43 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-39 Update http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat to point to the new dcat ED. 15:13:07 <cygri> ACTION-68? 15:13:07 <trackbot> ACTION-68 -- Sandro Hawke to http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat# to GET FPWD vocab? -- due 2012-05-31 -- OPEN 15:13:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/actions/68 15:13:13 <olyerickson> * Action-68 looks related to Action-39 15:13:58 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat.ttl 15:14:04 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat# 15:14:43 <olyerickson> What does http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat# actually want to go to? can we say? 15:15:17 <olyerickson> * Let's update the action to what you just said 15:15:27 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat.rdf 15:15:44 <Zakim> -gatemezi 15:15:54 <olyerickson> Can we link to the draft temporarily ntil it is released? 15:16:30 <olyerickson> So a new action on that action? 15:16:57 <cygri> action: cygri to ask Sandro how to proceed on getting an HTML representation for the namespace document (see ACTION-68) 15:16:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-96 - Ask Sandro how to proceed on getting an HTML representation for the namespace document (see ACTION-68) [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2013-02-07]. 15:17:34 <fadmaa> https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/9 15:17:42 <fadmaa> https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/8 15:18:40 <olyerickson> TOPIC: ISSUE-8 and ISSUE-9 15:19:26 <olyerickson> * current description is not very clear 15:19:51 <olyerickson> * Suggestion for downloadURL 15:20:03 <olyerickson> * suggestion for indirect vs direct 15:20:56 <olyerickson> * suggestion (timrdf) to use foaf 15:21:15 <olyerickson> * to sum: 15:21:21 <MakxDekkers> +q 15:21:31 <olyerickson> a. drop "distribution" 15:22:00 <olyerickson> b. narrow-down accessURL to ONLY refer to data itself 15:22:10 <cygri> cygri: related: DCAT recipes http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/Recipes 15:22:11 <olyerickson> c. use foaf page when it is just a page 15:22:21 <olyerickson> +1 to timrdf's approach ;) 15:22:31 <olyerickson> q+ 15:22:41 <olyerickson> yes 15:22:41 <fadmaa> q? 15:23:25 <fadmaa> ack MakxDekkers 15:23:27 <olyerickson> MakxDekkers: RE the solution with two properties to make the distinction... 15:23:29 <fadmaa> q? 15:24:17 <fadmaa> MakxDekkers: similar approaches was used in Europeana.. I support this suggestion 15:24:31 <fadmaa> ack olyerickson 15:24:37 <olyerickson> cygri: concerns 15:24:59 <olyerickson> a. We've seen some existing cats that only link, but don't host 15:25:10 <olyerickson> in cat there is no distinction made 15:25:31 <fadmaa> cygri: two concerns... 1) some existing catalogs don't host the data itself. In the catalog the distinction between direct and indirect is not captured 15:25:35 <olyerickson> cat doesn't record the metadata on what you'll actually get 15:25:49 <olyerickson> s/page/pain/ 15:25:57 <fadmaa> ... this might introduce difficulties in representing such catalogs 15:26:02 <olyerickson> hard to represent such catalogs 15:26:15 <olyerickson> b. Related to subclasses 15:26:33 <olyerickson> if it is known that automatic processing can be done 15:26:45 <olyerickson> would be nice to flag this in the metadata 15:27:21 <olyerickson> there might be other cases 15:27:57 <olyerickson> would be interesting to see even reference to SPARQL endpoints 15:28:38 <fadmaa> q? 15:28:53 <olyerickson> would be nice if dcat could handle marking, in some way, that accessURL could provide machine processing of some (discoverable) kinds 15:29:39 <olyerickson> is there a "middle ground"? 15:29:46 <MakxDekkers> q+ 15:29:53 <olyerickson> fadmaa: doesn't have specific idea 15:30:34 <MakxDekkers> q- 15:30:41 <olyerickson> on first issue: use more generic property for cats without specific download 15:31:06 <olyerickson> cygri: one prop can be sub-property of the other? 15:31:23 <MakxDekkers> q+ 15:31:34 <olyerickson> e.g. downloadURL could be sub-property of accessURL ? 15:32:02 <olyerickson> fadmaa's suggestion doesn't slve our problem 15:32:13 <olyerickson> +1 to cygri's point 15:32:41 <olyerickson> q+ 15:32:48 <fadmaa> q? 15:33:31 <olyerickson> MakxDekkers: important to note whether either will break current implementations 15:33:37 <fadmaa> ack MakxDekkers 15:33:54 <fadmaa> q? 15:34:36 <gatemezing> gatemezing: Q: Do we really have use cases with cat using SPARQL endpoint? 15:35:09 <fadmaa> ack olyerickson 15:35:32 <fadmaa> dcat usecase page: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Dcat_examples 15:35:47 <fadmaa> s/usecase/examples/ 15:37:21 <fadmaa> q? 15:37:31 <olyerickson> Did I help? 15:38:54 <olyerickson> yes 15:38:58 <olyerickson> precisely 15:39:53 <gatemezing> @famaa: thanks for the link.. I wonder if there is current implementation of this specific example out there.. 15:41:09 <gatemezing> s/@famaa/@fadmaa 15:41:54 <olyerickson> fadmaa: only use accessURL if it an actual downlaod to data 15:41:58 <olyerickson> if now, use a foaf page 15:42:08 <olyerickson> s/now/not/ 15:42:17 <olyerickson> cygri: push back on "foaf page" 15:42:49 <olyerickson> cygri: ref's defn of foaf page --- unspefcific about what kind of doc it is 15:43:06 <fadmaa> cygri: foaf page is very unspecific about the nature of the document 15:43:25 <cygri> http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_page 15:43:30 <olyerickson> notion that it points to a web page is not clear --- might be relying on moe specificity than foaf intends 15:43:46 <olyerickson> (might be a bit of a stretch) 15:44:05 <olyerickson> but is not unreasonable 15:44:35 <fadmaa> +1 to cygri's point especially that the subject of the foaf_page will be of type dcat_Distribution 15:44:39 <gatemezing> +1 to having accessURL , and using other more specific property 15:45:02 <olyerickson> isAvailableAt / isAvailableFrom 15:45:48 <olyerickson> cygri: One way forward 15:46:14 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #gld 15:46:36 <olyerickson> define some generic URL property with two sub-propertes linking to downloads, info-pages, even SPARQL pages 15:47:16 <olyerickson> fadmaa: stick with downloadURL 15:47:25 <MakxDekkers> can't we use accessURL as the 'generic' one? 15:47:33 <olyerickson> fadmaa: We seem to agree, one property for download, one for info 15:47:50 <olyerickson> s/info/access/ 15:47:51 <MakxDekkers> q+ 15:48:45 <fadmaa> q? 15:49:32 <MakxDekkers> q- 15:50:06 <MakxDekkers> q+ 15:50:27 <fadmaa> ack MakxDekkers 15:50:50 <olyerickson> MakxDekkers: if we can preserve current "generic" capability and extend with more specific, that would be good 15:53:39 <fadmaa> olyerickson: suggest having accessURL exclusively to downloadable files. This is consistent with my experience with data.gov and the work on automatically get datasets 15:53:39 <MakxDekkers> q+ 15:54:27 <olyerickson> accessURL as generic, and then specialize 15:54:37 <olyerickson> olyerickson: argues other way 15:54:44 <olyerickson> cygri: pushes back on olyerickson 15:55:24 <fadmaa> cygri: the spec currently states that accessURL is not necessarily a direct download url. 15:56:26 <fadmaa> cygri: restricting accessURL to direct download would break existing data. 15:56:31 <gatemezing> +1 to having downloadURL subproperty of accessURL.. 15:56:54 <fadmaa> ... backward compatibility is a point here but not a very important one 15:57:09 <gatemezing> But not sure about having subclasses of Distribution 15:58:16 <cygri> q? 15:58:28 <martin_> I've seen many examples using accessURL for direct access and also for landing pages 15:58:36 <olyerickson> cygri: if we make accessURL more specific, it actually breaks existing followers 15:59:26 <olyerickson> I need to go. fadmaa, please keep us informed and thanks. Sorry I have a call this second 15:59:34 <Zakim> -olyerickson 15:59:43 <olyerickson> olyerickson has left #gld 15:59:46 <fadmaa> MakxDekkers: if there is a way to proceed without breaking existing implementation then that's better IMO 16:00:10 <MakxDekkers> I need to leave in 5 16:01:07 <fadmaa> cygri: we seem to have agreement on what's needed however we still have to agree on ow to express this 16:01:15 <MakxDekkers> +1 16:01:22 <fadmaa> ... may be we procedd with a proposal to vote on next time 16:01:45 <MakxDekkers> thanks, bye 16:01:51 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers 16:02:04 <fadmaa> q? 16:03:00 <cygri> topic: DCAT use in Spanish government data guidelines 16:03:01 <fadmaa> martin_: hopefully the Spanish government will publish a guidelines for all open government catalogues 16:03:06 <fadmaa> .. . I am 16:03:20 <fadmaa> martin_: I am pushing for DCAT adoption 16:03:41 <fadmaa> ... I will share the document once I have a formal permission to share it 16:04:20 <fadmaa> cygri: great news! there might still be changes to DCAT, how do you think this might affect the official guidelines? 16:04:30 <fadmaa> martin_: this is a big concern to me. 16:05:05 <fadmaa> ... I am trying to stick with the more generic and stable parts of the vocabulary like the ones coming from DCAT 16:05:28 <fadmaa> cygri: we need to do a better job about pointing out unfinished parts 16:05:43 <fadmaa> ... or parts that might change 16:06:01 <gatemezing> Maybe by adding "unstable", "stable" flags? 16:07:04 <fadmaa> cygri: can the guidelines still be changed now? 16:07:56 <fadmaa> martin_: I hope to have a stable version within a month... after that changing would be complicated 16:09:50 <fadmaa> cygri: as a participant in the DCAT spec you can point out and warn about changes that might contradict with the guidelines and that will be a factor in any decision 16:11:56 <fadmaa> bye all 16:11:57 <fadmaa> thanks 16:11:58 <Zakim> -martin_ 16:12:11 <Zakim> -cygri 16:12:12 <martin_> thanks 16:12:13 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended 16:12:13 <Zakim> Attendees were +3539149aaaa, fadmaa, olyerickson, TallTed, gatemezi, martin_, cygri, +1.284.653.aabb, MakxDekkers 16:12:14 <gatemezing> thanks! 16:12:38 <martin_> martin_ has left #gld 16:13:07 <fadmaa> rrsagent, generate minutes 16:13:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-gld-minutes.html fadmaa # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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