15:48:55 RRSAgent has joined #aapi 15:48:55 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc 15:49:02 rrsagent, make logs public 15:49:08 rrsagent, make log world 15:49:17 Scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver 15:49:29 ScribeNick: Andi 15:49:35 Meeting: AAPI 15:49:49 Chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver 15:49:57 rrsagent, stop 16:00:59 Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter 16:00:59 +David_Bolter; got it 16:01:07 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11811 16:01:22 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_frames 16:03:58 topic: bug 11811 16:04:35 DB: when building a page using frames, you specify the source and it gets pulled into the document - that's a sub-document 16:04:40 DB: example is a chat application 16:05:06 DB: if you put aria-attributes on the frame, you might be trying to override the attributes of the sub-document 16:05:15 DB: don't think this is a common case 16:06:54 DB: Chrome and Firefox might be the only browsers that would do this. 16:07:10 +[Microsoft] 16:08:44 -[Microsoft] 16:09:01 cyns has joined #aapi 16:09:08 +[Microsoft] 16:10:53 AS: summarizes the text in Section 6.1 16:11:17 AS: in most cases, the attributes on a sub-document override the attributes on a document 16:11:55 AS: but in the case of aria-live, -atomic, -relevant, and -busy the attributes of the sub-document override the attributes on the frame in the document 16:12:23 CS: sounds complicated but if the browsers do it differently, it's even more complicated 16:12:46 CS: if have a test file, I can find out what IE is doing 16:12:59 CS: okay with this being normative but need to check with some other people 16:13:07 DB: think this applies to all APIs 16:13:38 AS: but we need to find out how they do it because they don't have the container- object attributes 16:14:04 action: David to find out if Mozilla has a test file to send to Cynthia 16:14:29 bug - David - to find a test file 16:15:44 topic: bug 13205 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13205 16:16:57 DB: ATK is probably similar to IA2 16:17:54 DB: similar wording, just need the ATK equivalent to IAccessibleAction 16:21:05 topic: 13208 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13208 16:21:12 CS: will do this week 16:21:51 for atk: "If an AT calls an action on an accessible object, the user agent SHOULD simulate a click on the DOM element which is mapped to the that accessible object." (interface is AtkAction) 16:23:10 topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13288 16:23:42 DB: checkbox example, don't expose the default attributes in any particular way as if the author had put aria attributes on it 16:26:51 AS: aria-busy - default value is "false" 16:27:11 DB: FF doesn't add an object attribute for aria-busy="false" 16:31:09 action: Andi to fix the aria-grabbed row - false=false, undefined=not mapped 16:35:53 DB: for aria-live, if the author specifies "off", we expose it, but if not, we don't expose the object attribute 16:37:02 DB: not really an expectation of an AT needing to see the default value specified 16:37:08 DB: explicitly 16:38:57 CS: think IE only puts in the aria properties what the author has specified 16:39:16 CS: whether or not they are valid 16:39:35 CS: in AriaProperties field in UIA 16:39:40 CS: it's just a string 16:41:02 DB: where the aria state or property is expected to be supplied by the author, there might be a case for exposing a default value, but otherwise not 16:41:48 AS: can we define where it is expected? 16:42:26 DB: not any of the global properties except where defaults are unique based on the role. e.g. aria-live has different defaults depending on the role 16:43:05 DB: aria-checked is undefined is supposed to mean the widget can't be checked 16:43:57 but for role="checkbox", if aria-checked is not specified, are we supposed to expose "undefined"? 16:44:54 CS: whatever the author provides, gets put into the properties field and the UA is not validating in any way 16:45:38 CS: wrt the question, think a "MAY" would be okay. 16:48:17 CS: UAs SHOULD expose all of the properties in object attributes or properties as provided by the author and SHOULD NOT expose any that the author didn't provide. 16:50:17 AS: but for some we do provide the object attribute (aria-live) so we need to add "unless specified in the following table" 16:52:52 topic: bug 14295 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14295 16:54:17 DB: if the element is in the tree, everything is exposed as normal 16:54:25 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_state-property 16:56:24 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_state-change 16:56:40 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_visibility 16:58:36 -[Microsoft] 16:58:38 -David_Bolter 16:58:39 -Andi_Snow_Weaver 16:58:40 Team_(aapi)16:00Z has ended 16:58:42 Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_Bolter, [Microsoft] 16:59:17 action: David to review all sections of 5.8 (Events) for correct specification of aria-hidden behavior 16:59:25 rrsagend, make minutes 17:00:11 s/rrsagend, make minutes// 17:00:16 rrsagent, make minutes 17:00:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi 17:01:07 zakim, [Microsoft] is Cynthia_Shelly 17:01:07 sorry, Andi, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]' 17:01:18 zakim, Microsoft is Cynthia Shelly 17:01:18 I don't understand 'Microsoft is Cynthia Shelly', Andi 17:01:47 zakim, Microsoft is Cynthia_Shelly 17:01:47 sorry, Andi, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft' 17:03:01 present+ Cynthia_Shelly 17:03:14 rrsagent, make minutes 17:03:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi 17:03:40 s/[Microsoft],// 17:03:44 rrsagent, make minutes 17:03:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi 17:04:17 present: Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_Bolter, Cynthia_Shelly 17:04:22 rrsagent, make minutes 17:04:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi 19:16:38 Andi has joined #aapi 19:16:44 zakim, bye 19:16:44 Zakim has left #aapi 19:16:49 rrsagent, bye 19:16:49 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-actions.rdf : 19:16:49 ACTION: David to find out if Mozilla has a test file to send to Cynthia [1] 19:16:49 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc#T16-14-04 19:16:49 ACTION: Andi to fix the aria-grabbed row - false=false, undefined=not mapped [2] 19:16:49 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc#T16-31-09 19:16:49 ACTION: David to review all sections of 5.8 (Events) for correct specification of aria-hidden behavior [3] 19:16:49 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc#T16-59-17