IRC log of aapi on 2011-10-04
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:48:55 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aapi
- 15:48:55 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc
- 15:49:02 [Andi]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 15:49:08 [Andi]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 15:49:17 [Andi]
- Scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
- 15:49:29 [Andi]
- ScribeNick: Andi
- 15:49:35 [Andi]
- Meeting: AAPI
- 15:49:49 [Andi]
- Chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
- 15:49:57 [Andi]
- rrsagent, stop
- 16:00:59 [davidb]
- Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter
- 16:00:59 [Zakim]
- +David_Bolter; got it
- 16:01:07 [Andi]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11811
- 16:01:22 [Andi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_frames
- 16:03:58 [Andi]
- topic: bug 11811
- 16:04:35 [Andi]
- DB: when building a page using frames, you specify the source and it gets pulled into the document - that's a sub-document
- 16:04:40 [Andi]
- DB: example is a chat application
- 16:05:06 [Andi]
- DB: if you put aria-attributes on the frame, you might be trying to override the attributes of the sub-document
- 16:05:15 [Andi]
- DB: don't think this is a common case
- 16:06:54 [Andi]
- DB: Chrome and Firefox might be the only browsers that would do this.
- 16:07:10 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:08:44 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 16:09:01 [cyns]
- cyns has joined #aapi
- 16:09:08 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:10:53 [Andi]
- AS: summarizes the text in Section 6.1
- 16:11:17 [Andi]
- AS: in most cases, the attributes on a sub-document override the attributes on a document
- 16:11:55 [Andi]
- AS: but in the case of aria-live, -atomic, -relevant, and -busy the attributes of the sub-document override the attributes on the frame in the document
- 16:12:23 [Andi]
- CS: sounds complicated but if the browsers do it differently, it's even more complicated
- 16:12:46 [Andi]
- CS: if have a test file, I can find out what IE is doing
- 16:12:59 [Andi]
- CS: okay with this being normative but need to check with some other people
- 16:13:07 [Andi]
- DB: think this applies to all APIs
- 16:13:38 [Andi]
- AS: but we need to find out how they do it because they don't have the container- object attributes
- 16:14:04 [Andi]
- action: David to find out if Mozilla has a test file to send to Cynthia
- 16:14:29 [Andi]
- bug - David - to find a test file
- 16:15:44 [Andi]
- topic: bug 13205 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13205
- 16:16:57 [Andi]
- DB: ATK is probably similar to IA2
- 16:17:54 [Andi]
- DB: similar wording, just need the ATK equivalent to IAccessibleAction
- 16:21:05 [Andi]
- topic: 13208 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13208
- 16:21:12 [Andi]
- CS: will do this week
- 16:21:51 [davidb]
- for atk: "If an AT calls an action on an accessible object, the user agent SHOULD simulate a click on the DOM element which is mapped to the that accessible object." (interface is AtkAction)
- 16:23:10 [Andi]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13288
- 16:23:42 [Andi]
- DB: checkbox example, don't expose the default attributes in any particular way as if the author had put aria attributes on it
- 16:26:51 [Andi]
- AS: aria-busy - default value is "false"
- 16:27:11 [Andi]
- DB: FF doesn't add an object attribute for aria-busy="false"
- 16:31:09 [Andi]
- action: Andi to fix the aria-grabbed row - false=false, undefined=not mapped
- 16:35:53 [Andi]
- DB: for aria-live, if the author specifies "off", we expose it, but if not, we don't expose the object attribute
- 16:37:02 [Andi]
- DB: not really an expectation of an AT needing to see the default value specified
- 16:37:08 [Andi]
- DB: explicitly
- 16:38:57 [Andi]
- CS: think IE only puts in the aria properties what the author has specified
- 16:39:16 [Andi]
- CS: whether or not they are valid
- 16:39:35 [Andi]
- CS: in AriaProperties field in UIA
- 16:39:40 [Andi]
- CS: it's just a string
- 16:41:02 [Andi]
- DB: where the aria state or property is expected to be supplied by the author, there might be a case for exposing a default value, but otherwise not
- 16:41:48 [Andi]
- AS: can we define where it is expected?
- 16:42:26 [Andi]
- DB: not any of the global properties except where defaults are unique based on the role. e.g. aria-live has different defaults depending on the role
- 16:43:05 [Andi]
- DB: aria-checked is undefined is supposed to mean the widget can't be checked
- 16:43:57 [Andi]
- but for role="checkbox", if aria-checked is not specified, are we supposed to expose "undefined"?
- 16:44:54 [Andi]
- CS: whatever the author provides, gets put into the properties field and the UA is not validating in any way
- 16:45:38 [Andi]
- CS: wrt the question, think a "MAY" would be okay.
- 16:48:17 [Andi]
- CS: UAs SHOULD expose all of the properties in object attributes or properties as provided by the author and SHOULD NOT expose any that the author didn't provide.
- 16:50:17 [Andi]
- AS: but for some we do provide the object attribute (aria-live) so we need to add "unless specified in the following table"
- 16:52:52 [Andi]
- topic: bug 14295 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14295
- 16:54:17 [Andi]
- DB: if the element is in the tree, everything is exposed as normal
- 16:54:25 [Andi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_state-property
- 16:56:24 [Andi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_state-change
- 16:56:40 [Andi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_visibility
- 16:58:36 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 16:58:38 [Zakim]
- -David_Bolter
- 16:58:39 [Zakim]
- -Andi_Snow_Weaver
- 16:58:40 [Zakim]
- Team_(aapi)16:00Z has ended
- 16:58:42 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_Bolter, [Microsoft]
- 16:59:17 [Andi]
- action: David to review all sections of 5.8 (Events) for correct specification of aria-hidden behavior
- 16:59:25 [Andi]
- rrsagend, make minutes
- 17:00:11 [Andi]
- s/rrsagend, make minutes//
- 17:00:16 [Andi]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:00:16 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi
- 17:01:07 [Andi]
- zakim, [Microsoft] is Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:01:07 [Zakim]
- sorry, Andi, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
- 17:01:18 [Andi]
- zakim, Microsoft is Cynthia Shelly
- 17:01:18 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'Microsoft is Cynthia Shelly', Andi
- 17:01:47 [Andi]
- zakim, Microsoft is Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:01:47 [Zakim]
- sorry, Andi, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft'
- 17:03:01 [Andi]
- present+ Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:03:14 [Andi]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:03:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi
- 17:03:40 [Andi]
- s/[Microsoft],//
- 17:03:44 [Andi]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:03:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi
- 17:04:17 [Andi]
- present: Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_Bolter, Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:04:22 [Andi]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:04:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-minutes.html Andi
- 19:16:38 [Andi]
- Andi has joined #aapi
- 19:16:44 [Andi]
- zakim, bye
- 19:16:44 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aapi
- 19:16:49 [Andi]
- rrsagent, bye
- 19:16:49 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-actions.rdf :
- 19:16:49 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: David to find out if Mozilla has a test file to send to Cynthia [1]
- 19:16:49 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc#T16-14-04
- 19:16:49 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Andi to fix the aria-grabbed row - false=false, undefined=not mapped [2]
- 19:16:49 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc#T16-31-09
- 19:16:49 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: David to review all sections of 5.8 (Events) for correct specification of aria-hidden behavior [3]
- 19:16:49 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-aapi-irc#T16-59-17