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<trackbot> Date: 08 September 2011
attending TPAC - Jim, Jeanne, Kim, Greg, Mark (tentative), Kelly (tentative)
we will have phone bridge availability
<jeanne2> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/SessionIdeas
user style sheets are important.
browser UI tools are difficult, must use developer tools to change styles.
comment: user styles should be easier to load and switch
<jeanne2> User stylesheets are critically important to low vision users.
comment: safari has a good interface, firefox not so much
<scribe> scribe: jallan
JS: new css stuff coming out should add conditionals to styles and when they appear.
<Greg> http://www.conditional-css.com/ is first page found searching for conditional CSS using search engines, but I don't know if it's the same effort.
<jeanne2> JA: CSS is a challenge to assistive technology anyway, because it doesn't write to the DOM. Injected text is a real problem.
<jeanne2> JA: UAAG: The user can override the author stylesheet
<Greg> I wonder if we'll need a success criterion allowing user to override specific pieces of information, such as telling the browser to lie about the browser and/or platforms versions.
js: does the user style sheet
override any conditionals...YES. conditionals are seen as being
useful for user style sheets,
... conditionals should be coming out soon as a working draft.
comment now
all agree that CSS and User CSS is important. will stay in the document
1.7.1 Author Style Sheets: The user can turn off the use of author style sheets, and for every author style sheet defined the user can choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (b) all pages for which it is defined.
1.7.2 User Style Sheets: The user can turn off the use of user style sheets, and for every user style sheet defined the user can choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (b) all pages on the current web site, or (c) all pages.
<Greg> Might change that from "on the current web site" to "on specified web sites".
<scribe> ACTION: JS insert text above into the draft. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-612 - Insert text above into the draft. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-15].
<Greg> First draft of a new SC: The user can specify how the user agent will identify itself, the platform, and the media type. This applies but is not limited to reporting information to servers and to scripts, loading media-dependent style sheets, and processing conditional style sheets. (AA)
<Greg> Jim says he's actually done that, when things wouldn't render in Opera he'd tell Opera to identify itself to servers as IE, and then things would work correctly. He's also hacked gmail to get mobile view on desktop, which is better for screen reader users. Mark notes opposite, where the Samsung tablet defaults to mobile view, but the device is powerful enough to use the default rendering instead.
js: this seems a hack and may be out dated. perhaps say want the user to be able to choose how the information will be rendered
kp: gmail labs, change keyboard
short cuts using multiple characters (3) . useful for speech
user, could add ] before letters to not speak a keyboard
command by accident.
... let user adjust everything that cuts across disabilities.
the above is an example of that.
... is it possible to add input method to the list of items
that the browser sends to the server
gl: interesting. is there a keyboard, or pointing device.
kp: the more information the browser has, the better it can deliver information. this is a larger issue
these are also important for the mobile platform
interfaces include: keyboard, pointer (mouse), touch screen (no pointer), multi-touch, air gesture, speech interface
<Greg> Another possible SC:
<Greg> 1.7.x Save copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA)
gl: many AT emulate keyboards, sometimes it is important to know if it is keyboard emulator or a real keyboard, and sometimes not.
<Greg> Does HTML5 provide a means for scripts or servers to determine which input devices/capabilities the user's system has available?
KP: interface issue is similar to the keyboard focus issue and keyboard short cuts. mouse users don't need either, but speech users need both
MH: burden on the UA to keep track of CSS. is there anyway that CSS may be dynamic? then what
gl: also, you save a style sheet, and there are 15 associated with a page. what applies to what, which are relevant
mh: what happens when author changes the CSS. is user alerted
<Greg> Mark points out that if the user saves a copy of an author style sheet and edits it to be a user style sheet, it can become outdated.
mh: CSS is transparent to the user. need to be experienced to deal with css.
<Greg> Mark suggests a user agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their user style sheet accordingly.
gl: this is part of a broad range of items that the user may want to keep track of in their settings.
mh: this is different from the user being able to change the CSS at the source
<scribe> ACTION: add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA) and 1.7.y user agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their user style sheet accordingly [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - add
<scribe> ACTION: jallan add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA) and 1.7.y user agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their user style sheet accordingly [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-613 - Add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA) and 1.7.y user agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their user style sheet accordingly [on Jim Allan - due 2011-09-15].
<Greg> We probably need to do a better job of making SC require decent usability for these features. The 1.7.x is an attempt to make it easy for the user to do something that they could always do, but would otherwise require a lot of effort and technical knowledge.
perhaps a plenary session on platform input methods issues - adjusting to user system preferences, and explosion of input methods
<jeanne2> Kim: Adjusting to the explosion of input methods
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/for servers/to servers/ Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Default Present: +1.617.324.aaaa, jeanne, Jim_Allan, Mark_Hakkinen, +1.425.895.aabb, Greg, +1.617.325.aacc, Kim Present: jallan MarkH KimP GregL Jeanne Regrets: JanR KellyF Jan Kelly Found Date: 08 Sep 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html People with action items: add jallan js[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]