IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-08-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:58:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:58:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-html-a11y-irc
14:58:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:36 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:58:38 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
14:58:38 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:39 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:58:39 [trackbot]
Date: 25 August 2011
14:58:49 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
14:59:06 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
14:59:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
14:59:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
14:59:13 [Zakim]
+??P54
14:59:24 [janina]
zakim, ??P54 is Janina
14:59:25 [Zakim]
+Janina; got it
14:59:52 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, call Mike
14:59:52 [Zakim]
ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
14:59:54 [Zakim]
+Mike
15:03:21 [Zakim]
+John_Foliot
15:04:29 [JF]
JF has joined #html-a11y
15:05:24 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:05:31 [Judy]
zakim, who's here?
15:06:09 [Zakim]
+Judy
15:06:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy
15:07:41 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Judy, JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:09:22 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
15:09:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy
15:09:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Judy, JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:12:32 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
15:13:53 [Zakim]
+??P12
15:14:32 [LeonieWatson]
LeonieWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:15:56 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P12 is Léonie_Watson
15:15:56 [Zakim]
+Léonie_Watson; got it
15:16:32 [JF]
scribe: JF
15:16:51 [JF]
MC: summary of the work of bug-triage team
15:17:28 [JF]
members of team include Leonie, M. Cooper, Marco Ranon, Hans Hillen, Everett Zuefeltt
15:17:39 [JF]
have a working plan for the next few weeks
15:17:51 [MichaelC]
-> http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-a11y-bugs-minutes Bug triage minutes 23 August 2011
15:18:07 [MichaelC]
bug triage sub-team looking at a11y bugs since LC that aren't yet a11ytf
15:18:11 [MichaelC]
to decide if they need to be TF priorities
15:18:23 [JF]
JS: looking at the consensus policy, and see if we can tweak it to better reflect how we are working today
15:18:29 [MichaelC]
towards a next step which is pushing back on priority assignments made by chairs
15:18:34 [MichaelC]
if needed
15:18:44 [MichaelC]
a window for that in early september
15:19:02 [JF]
JS: it appears for example that much of the work has been emerging from the sub-teams
15:19:02 [MichaelC]
next sub-team will look at all bugs since LC and determine if they have a11y relationship
15:19:16 [MichaelC]
then proceed with triaging those over the upcoming quarter
15:19:48 [JF]
it seems however that we are voting 3 times on the same issue
15:19:51 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Aug/0567.html
15:20:03 [JF]
which leads to some confusion
15:20:12 [MichaelC]
chair: Janina_Sajka
15:20:20 [JF]
JS: if we can reduce the amount of voting, even down to 2, then that is a win
15:20:46 [JF]
would like to see us acknowledge that much of the heavy lifting is being done at the sub-team level
15:21:17 [JF]
and if we assign work-effort to a sub-team, that this TF then support the expertw charged with that work
15:21:32 [Judy]
q+
15:21:35 [JF]
so perhaps allow the sub-teams to work a little more inofrmally
15:21:50 [JF]
s/inofrmally/informally
15:22:47 [JF]
JS: looking at both media and canvas, this larger TF normally accepted the recommendations of the sub-team without question
15:23:39 [JF]
JB: have started to brains-storm, but we need to be very clear on what problem(s) we aqre trying to solve
15:23:53 [JF]
it seems that perhaps the process is overly complex
15:24:38 [JF]
JB: the multi step nature means that it can cause some delay
15:24:59 [JF]
perhaps associated to the WBS survey mechanism
15:26:35 [JF]
JB: so, envisioning different scenarios, are the ways we can avoid being delayed. Perhaps 2 levels of formality/process
15:27:03 [JF]
so for example bug filing and issue of re-open requests and what-not
15:27:27 [JF]
Perhaps those could be assigned to the sub-groups. But there may also be other things that would be better handled with a more formal process
15:28:04 [JF]
so it would be useful to enumerate issues and scenarios where the process is stalling work, and then look to see if we can revisit the process there
15:28:39 [JF]
JS: one thing specifically missing is because we do not say anything about the sub-teams in the consensus policy process
15:28:59 [JF]
so we cannot point to the fact that the sub-teams are working on a particular issue/point
15:29:18 [JF]
JB: not sure however if that addresses the requirement for different work-flow
15:29:35 [JF]
JS: where to kick into a more formal process is worth investigating
15:30:13 [JF]
JS: Looking at issues within the media sub-team, that group discussed and reach agreement, and then it was pushed through often directly to the larger
15:30:26 [JF]
WG without it going through this Thursday meeting
15:30:52 [Judy]
q?
15:30:53 [JF]
(it skiped right oinofrmally this group), and it was non-controversial
15:30:53 [Judy]
q+
15:31:20 [JF]
s/oinofrmally /over
15:31:41 [JF]
JB: are you then proposing to draft something different for others to review?
15:31:51 [JF]
JS: yes, exactly. just seeking feedback
15:31:58 [Judy]
ack judy
15:33:17 [Judy]
q+
15:36:43 [Judy]
q-
15:36:56 [JF]
JS: likes that the facilitators can guide discussion and move things forward
15:37:24 [JF]
agree that there are other issues that might be more sensitive, and so sensitive things are likely to end up in surveys
15:37:29 [Zakim]
+Rich
15:37:43 [JF]
media, canvas, aria-mappings were less controversial
15:37:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:38:38 [LeonieWatson]
q+
15:39:10 [JF]
ack L
15:39:26 [JF]
LW: agree in principle with what Janina is proposing
15:39:52 [JF]
JS: wonders if Mike TM has any feedback about this line of process discussion
15:39:55 [Zakim]
-Judy
15:40:26 [JF]
MS: the way the HTML5 process has evolved is that it was originally written by maciej, and then has been fine-tuned over the longer haul
15:40:49 [JF]
MS: but it all starts with somebody initially writing up something, and then seeking wider feedback
15:41:07 [JF]
MS: so that would need to happen. but having a streamlined process is overall a good thing
15:41:41 [JF]
JS: seems I am volunteering to write a new draft - hopefully I can have that in early September
15:42:10 [JF]
JS: ASking Rich for feedback on Canvas
15:42:25 [JF]
RS: waiting for Ian to respond to Chalrs Pritchard re: changes to focus management
15:42:42 [JF]
RS: there was something for scroll-into-view
15:43:08 [JF]
talked with Jonas, and if wee can put the paths in, then we can use a CSS property that is already in the layout engine
15:43:30 [JF]
just need to ensue that the CP for that, that anything having to do with CSS functions would also be applicable there
15:43:38 [JF]
so agreed that it could be closed
15:44:11 [JF]
s/Chalrs/Charles
15:44:41 [JF]
RS: another defect is on content-editable and designmode
15:45:06 [JF]
Ayreh agreed that this needed to be re-written, and that is moving forward
15:45:23 [JF]
JS: this will be re-integrated into the HTML5 spec
15:45:40 [JF]
RS: the other issue is around the standardized keyboard input
15:46:07 [JF]
instead of putting those features into that part of the document, they wanted to put it into a seperate authoring spec
15:47:00 [JF]
RS: Ayreh has created a seperate document - issue is that it is a document outside of W3C, even though it is actually a good ide
15:47:09 [JF]
s/ide/idea
15:47:33 [JF]
there is some discussion about how to bring that into the W3C. Ayreh not keen on following the W3C process
15:48:17 [JF]
RS: reading the note from Ayreh about W3C Community Groups
15:48:57 [JF]
so this looks like Ayreh will look to use this forum to bring it back into W3C
15:49:30 [JF]
RS: I think this is a good thing that the W3C is making things more open and nimble then it's a good thing
15:49:48 [JF]
and this editing spec likely moving into W3C space is an example of why
15:50:29 [richardschwerdtfe]
https://plus.google.com/stream/circles/p2c387a7408241602
15:50:40 [Zakim]
+Judy
15:50:52 [JF]
RS: not sure if everyone can read that, but this is/was Ayreh's posting
15:52:44 [richardschwerdtfe]
http://www.w3.org/community/editing/
15:54:51 [janina]
q?
15:55:23 [JF]
RS: Have heard a bit about Community Groups, but curious how that process and not being on Rec Track works
15:55:41 [JF]
JB: I am also investigating this at this time, but not ready to answer at this time
15:56:11 [JF]
JB: text sub-team udate
15:56:20 [JF]
s/udate/update
15:56:52 [JF]
have been looking at the table summary issue, the meta generator issue, and the response to Jonas' longdesc CP
15:57:29 [JF]
with meta-name and summary we are still looking for more feedback
15:57:45 [JF]
John's draft response to Jonas - he's looking for more editorial feedback
15:58:41 [JF]
JB; we have also noted that the next 2 Mondays present schedule conflicts
15:59:02 [JF]
so we are looking at a possible day-shift as a one-off
15:59:39 [JF]
(wonders if aiming for a Tuesday 4:00 PM Boston time would work - wondering on impact for European attendees)
16:00:20 [JF]
JB: but looking to move it to a more regular time slot that is not Monday
16:01:37 [JF]
JB: will try some alternative dates and times on the list
16:02:26 [JF]
LW: the ideal time for me would be Tuesday before or after the bug-triage call (seems like tht is 11:00 PM Bos)
16:02:55 [JF]
JS: concerned about making a permanent move as that might impact on European participation
16:03:31 [Zakim]
-Rich
16:03:44 [Zakim]
-Mike
16:03:45 [JF]
zakim, bye
16:03:45 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson, Rich
16:03:45 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:03:54 [JF]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:04:07 [JF]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:05:04 [JF]
rrsagent, please part
16:05:04 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items