15:41:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:41:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-irc
15:41:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:41:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:41:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:41:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
15:41:23 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:41:23 <trackbot> Date: 02 August 2011
15:41:30 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Jul/0183.html
15:41:34 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:41:40 <mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas
15:41:59 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:41:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:42:06 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:44:02 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
15:46:20 <mhausenblas> Zakim, this will be SW_RDB2RDF
15:46:20 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
15:46:27 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:46:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:47:03 <boris> boris has joined #rdb2rdf
15:56:35 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:56:41 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
15:56:48 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:56:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:57:51 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
15:57:56 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aaaa
15:58:03 <ericP> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:03 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
15:58:12 <mhausenblas> present+ Eric
15:58:47 <boris> zakim, code?
15:58:47 <Zakim> the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), boris
15:59:04 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:59:04 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:59:05 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:59:23 <Zakim> +juansequeda
15:59:36 <mhausenblas> present+ Juan
15:59:41 <mhausenblas> present+ Ivan
15:59:51 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #rdb2rdf
16:00:01 <mhausenblas> Zakim, cygri is with me
16:00:01 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:00:11 <Zakim> + +49.153.6.aabb
16:00:14 <boris> hi
16:00:26 <boris> zakim, aabb is boris
16:00:26 <Zakim> +boris; got it
16:00:32 <mhausenblas> present+ Boris
16:01:06 <soeren> soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
16:01:43 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:01:59 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:02:00 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:02:23 <Zakim> +??P5
16:02:41 <soeren> zakim, ??P5 is soeren
16:02:41 <Zakim> +soeren; got it
16:03:32 <mhausenblas> present+ Soeren
16:03:35 <mhausenblas> present+ Ted
16:03:36 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
16:03:44 <mhausenblas> Zakim, nunolopes is with me
16:03:44 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:03:51 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:03:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:03:52 <mhausenblas> present+ Nuno
16:04:08 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Marcelo
16:04:15 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Ashok
16:04:32 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:04:46 <Zakim> +Souri
16:04:46 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:04:53 <mhausenblas> present+ Souri
16:05:09 <mhausenblas> present+ Seema
16:05:27 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
16:05:35 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:06:14 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:06:15 <Zakim> +Seema
16:07:04 <mhausenblas> Topic: SQL/XSD data dataype mapping
16:07:10 <mhausenblas> ACTION-141?
16:07:10 <trackbot> ACTION-141 -- Nuno Lopes to create a SQL/XSD data dataype mapping in the Wiki until next week -- due 2011-07-26 -- CLOSED
16:07:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/141
16:07:18 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-141
16:07:18 <trackbot> ACTION-141 Create a SQL/XSD data dataype mapping in the Wiki until next week closed
16:07:27 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Mapping_SQL_datatypes_to_XML_Schema_datatypes
16:07:39 <mhausenblas> Michael: thanks, Nuno, nice job
16:08:01 <mhausenblas> Nuno: Based on ISO/IEC 9075-14:2008 Part 14 XML-Related Specifications
16:08:13 <mhausenblas> ... with the restrictions/facets
16:08:28 <mhausenblas> ... question is how deep we want to go with this
16:08:37 <mhausenblas> ... for example excluding the user-defined types
16:08:43 <mhausenblas> ... or constructed types
16:08:51 <mhausenblas> ... unsure if we should consider this
16:08:57 <mhausenblas> Michael: comments?
16:09:00 <cygri> q+
16:09:06 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:09:18 <cygri> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Jul/0163.html
16:09:21 <mhausenblas> Richard: Really useful, thanks
16:09:40 <mhausenblas> ... above are my questions
16:09:45 <Zakim> + +1.314.394.aacc
16:09:56 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is dmcneil 
16:09:56 <Zakim> +dmcneil; got it
16:10:02 <mhausenblas> present+ David
16:10:09 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:10:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, ericP, Ivan, juansequeda, boris, MacTed (muted), soeren, Souri, Seema, dmcneil
16:10:11 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, cygri, nunolopes
16:10:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Seema, Souri, nunolopes, soeren, cygri, juansequeda, boris, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, dmcneil, MacTed, LeeF, ivan, betehess, iv_an_ru, ericP, trackbot
16:10:36 <mhausenblas> Richard: I understand you need some time to address my questions
16:10:54 <mhausenblas> ... there are situations where we want to map to plain strings
16:10:58 <mhausenblas> ... via casting
16:11:08 <mhausenblas> ... toString (SQL-built-in)
16:11:20 <mhausenblas> ... and we can use this as a fallback
16:12:03 <mhausenblas> Michael: does this always make sense?
16:12:11 <mhausenblas> Richard: impl. dependent 
16:13:16 <mhausenblas> Michael:  we need to keep this up
16:13:24 <mhausenblas> Richard: any volunteers?
16:14:29 <cygri> ACTION: nuno to look into how SQL 2008 handles CAST of user-defined types and constructed types  to string
16:14:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Look into how SQL 2008 handles CAST of user-defined types and constructed types  to string [on Nuno Lopes - due 2011-08-09].
16:15:18 <mhausenblas> Eric: so, we look into this to figure if we have an RDF mapping?
16:15:59 <mhausenblas> Richard: we need to figure a way how to deal with it - simplest would be to relay on the SQL 2008 spec 
16:16:04 <ericP> "Data conversions between a user-defined
16:16:06 <ericP> type and another data type are defined by a user-defined cast."
16:16:08 <dmcneil> +q
16:16:11 <mhausenblas> q?
16:17:12 <mhausenblas> ack dmcneil
16:17:31 <mhausenblas> David: wondering where it is heading
16:17:38 <mhausenblas> ... we started out rather simple?
16:18:02 <mhausenblas> Richard: if there is a well defined translation to XSD (such as xsd:integer) use that
16:18:18 <ericP> i don't think there are any well-defined conversions from e.g. COMPLEX_NUMBER to CHAR(n)
16:18:28 <mhausenblas> ... if there is none, but the implementation knows how to do the toString use that
16:18:42 <ericP> that when you introduce e.g. COMPLEX_NUMBER, htat you ought to introduce the appropriate casts
16:18:57 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-29 - resource identifiers as strings
16:19:00 <cygri> ericP, i think we just need cast to string
16:19:14 <mhausenblas> ACTION-124?
16:19:14 <trackbot> ACTION-124 -- Seema Sundara to implement decision re ISSUE-29 (bNodes identifier and URI expressions be of string types) -- due 2011-08-02 -- OPEN
16:19:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/124
16:19:23 <mhausenblas> ACTION-147?
16:19:23 <trackbot> ACTION-147 -- Richard Cyganiak to implement ISSUE-29 resolution by stating that conversion to string is done implicitly in any context where a string value is required, and is done according to the rules for SQL's CAST expression. Columns whose type cannot be CAST to string MUST NOT be used in a context that requires a string; and mark the issue as pending review -- due 2011-08-02 -- OPEN
16:19:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/147
16:19:36 <Seema> yes, it does
16:19:42 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-124
16:19:43 <trackbot> ACTION-124 Implement decision re ISSUE-29 (bNodes identifier and URI expressions be of string types) closed
16:20:01 <ericP> cygri, that makes sense, and if the UDT which provides a new type doesn't give you a cast, then you were going to lose anywyas
16:20:34 <mhausenblas> Topic: Actions
16:20:44 <mhausenblas> ACTION-137?
16:20:44 <trackbot> ACTION-137 -- Souripriya Das to create proposal for IRIs to resolve ISSUE-45 -- due 2011-07-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:20:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/137
16:22:06 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-137
16:22:06 <trackbot> ACTION-137 Create proposal for IRIs to resolve ISSUE-45 closed
16:22:15 <mhausenblas> close ISSUE-45
16:22:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-45 IRIs instead of literals for rr:termType choices closed
16:22:28 <mhausenblas> ACTION-139?
16:22:28 <trackbot> ACTION-139 -- Boris Villazón-Terrazas to move the R2RML extended examples from the specification to the Test Cases document - ISSUE 52 -- due 2011-08-09 -- OPEN
16:22:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/139
16:23:07 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-139
16:23:07 <trackbot> ACTION-139 Move the R2RML extended examples from the specification to the Test Cases document - ISSUE 52 closed
16:23:17 <mhausenblas> ACTION-140?
16:23:17 <trackbot> ACTION-140 -- Boris Villazón-Terrazas to produce an RDF Schema representation of the R2RML vocabulary terms. -- due 2011-08-09 -- OPEN
16:23:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/140
16:23:25 <cygri> see http://www.w3.org/ns/r2rml#
16:23:52 <mhausenblas> Richard: we have updated the R2RML namespace document, see above
16:23:57 <mhausenblas> ... we have synced it
16:24:17 <ivan> q+
16:24:20 <mhausenblas> Michael: Thanks to Ivan for the support
16:24:29 <mhausenblas> ack ivan 
16:24:49 <mhausenblas> Ivan: is it planned to make it data-in-HTML aware?
16:25:43 <boris> q+
16:25:45 <mhausenblas> Richard: At the moment it is not clear who is responsible for the namespace document
16:25:49 <mhausenblas> ack boris 
16:26:03 <mhausenblas> Michael: is there an issue for this?
16:26:12 <cygri> this is ISSUE-53
16:26:47 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-53?
16:26:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-53 -- RDFS vocabulary reference for R2RML, and namespace document -- open
16:26:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/53
16:27:46 <mhausenblas> Michael: how about resolving it now with Boris as maintainer
16:28:53 <mhausenblas> Ivan: let's use http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/products
16:28:53 <cygri> ivan++
16:29:32 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: the WG considers LC-relevant issues only in the R2RML and DM product group of the tracker http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/products
16:29:57 <cygri> +1
16:30:00 <boris> +1
16:30:06 <juansequeda> +1
16:30:07 <ivan> +1
16:30:14 <Souri> +1
16:30:29 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION:  the WG considers LC-relevant issues only in the R2RML and DM product group of the tracker http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/products
16:31:48 <mhausenblas> Topic: Issues without actions or unclear who is on it
16:31:58 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-54?
16:31:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-54 -- Simpler constant-valued term maps -- open
16:31:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/54
16:32:13 <mhausenblas> Michael: who is on this?
16:32:40 <mhausenblas> Richard: a proposal for syntactic sugar
16:33:48 <mhausenblas> Michael: is it doable in the time we have w/o distracting from the MUST-issues?
16:33:58 <mhausenblas> Richard: don't know in detail
16:34:02 <dmcneil> personally I lean towards "postpone" on this, because I feel like we need to push to get the last-call spec out
16:34:24 <mhausenblas> Richard: in terms of impl not a big deal but might induce discussion
16:35:17 <mhausenblas> Michael: let's leave it open for now
16:37:10 <mhausenblas> Richard: seems the same for ISSUE-57 - ISSUE-60
16:37:21 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-61?
16:37:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-61 -- Re-using public entity identifiers - look-up table -- open
16:37:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/61
16:38:37 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Richard to come up with a proposal for ISSUE-61 (entity ID look-up table)
16:38:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Come up with a proposal for ISSUE-61 (entity ID look-up table) [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-08-09].
16:38:41 <Zakim> -juansequeda
16:39:05 <mhausenblas> Richard: IIRC there was a comment from Souri that if we do this then it should be bijective
16:39:20 <mhausenblas> Richard: I'd be interested in why?
16:40:22 <mhausenblas> Souri: If it is not 1:1 then, it is feels a little bit odd
16:40:45 <mhausenblas> Richard: In D2RQ we have bijective mappings, error otherwise
16:40:59 <mhausenblas> ... from implementation POV it's easy
16:41:08 <mhausenblas> ... but in use it's inflexible
16:41:38 <mhausenblas> ... can't report on experience with the more flexible mapping, though
16:41:48 <mhausenblas> ... unsure what the right way is
16:42:07 <mhausenblas> Souri: it's obviously much cleaner if it is a 1:1 mapping
16:43:01 <mhausenblas> ... the value of non-bijective mappings is there, and should be possible to do
16:43:10 <mhausenblas> Seema: we can handle 1:M
16:43:22 <mhausenblas> q?
16:43:37 <mhausenblas> Souri: what are the two sides of the mapping?
16:43:46 <mhausenblas> Richard: DB column and RDF term
16:44:08 <mhausenblas> ... type code for example 1... abc:accepted, 2 ... abc:rejected
16:45:01 <mhausenblas> Michael: what's the insight now?
16:45:20 <mhausenblas> Richard: I'll propose a M:N mapping then
16:45:43 <mhausenblas> ... maybe I'll use SKOS?
16:45:53 <dmcneil> it doesn't seem to me that we can reach into unknown territory at this point, since we are trying to wrap things up for last call
16:46:38 <dmcneil> i am not referrring to SKOS, but to trying to do M:N lookups
16:47:02 <mhausenblas> David: M:N is too far reaching
16:47:05 <ivan> +1 to dmcneil 
16:48:25 <Souri> many-to-many mapping => :AsianCuisine => "Chinese", "Japanese", "Vietnamese", "Indian" ; :SpicyCuisine => "Indian" ; I am not sure about implementation complexity (not for constants, but translating the DB result back to RDF terms)
16:51:40 <mhausenblas> Michael: Let's try to see how far we get with the M:N mapping, fallback is 1:1
16:52:50 <mhausenblas> Richard: I understand the concern and I agree that none of the above issues should keep us from going LC
16:53:07 <mhausenblas> ... I invested quite some time to have the buffer now for 'optimizations' ;)
16:54:20 <mhausenblas> Topic: RDB2RDF Test Cases status (Boris)
16:54:35 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/ Test Cases document
16:54:37 <boris> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdb2rdf-tests
16:54:44 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:54:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:54:59 <dmcneil> from my perspective it seems to me that we barely have enough time to get to last call with the features that we have (there is no need to discuss it further, just wanted to get my view out there)
16:55:13 <boris> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdb2rdf-tests/file/6a177981074b/D000-1table0rows/manifest.ttl
16:55:34 <boris> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/TCOverview.html
16:56:58 <mhausenblas> Michael: thanks a lot, David, for your input - I appreciate it and very much value it!
16:58:30 <mhausenblas> Michael: Thanks Boris for the hard work
16:58:37 <mhausenblas> Topic: AOB
16:58:45 <mhausenblas> Michael: next week we focus on DM
17:00:03 <Zakim> -Seema
17:00:05 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
17:00:05 <Zakim> -dmcneil
17:00:07 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:00:09 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:00:10 <Zakim> -Souri
17:00:17 <Zakim> -soeren
17:00:36 <Zakim> -boris
17:00:37 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:00:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:04:29 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
17:04:37 <Zakim> -ericP
17:04:38 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:04:40 <Zakim> Attendees were mhausenblas, +1.617.324.aaaa, ericP, Ivan, juansequeda, cygri, +49.153.6.aabb, boris, MacTed, soeren, nunolopes, Souri, Seema, +1.314.394.aacc, dmcneil
17:05:26 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:05:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:05:32 <mhausenblas> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:05:37 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:05:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:05:55 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
17:05:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:05:55 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:05:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:05:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot
17:05:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:05:57 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-actions.rdf :
17:05:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: nuno to look into how SQL 2008 handles CAST of user-defined types and constructed types  to string [1]
17:05:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-14-29
17:05:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard to come up with a proposal for ISSUE-61 (entity ID look-up table) [2]
17:05:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-38-37