07:31:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #geolocation
07:31:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-irc
07:31:11 <lbolstad> scribe: lbolstad
07:32:00 <lbolstad> TOPIC: Device Orientation
07:34:28 <matt> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-orientation-event-20110628/
07:39:33 <lbolstad> FPWD published today
07:39:34 <steveblock> steveblock has joined #geolocation
07:39:38 <steveblock> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011May/0001.html
07:44:29 <lbolstad> We'll first create issues from topics that have been brought up on the mailing list
07:44:46 <lbolstad> Should we change the orientation axes?
07:44:46 <lbolstad> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
07:45:31 <steveblock> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/SensorManager.html#getOrientation(float[], float[])
07:45:40 <matt>  http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2010/09/08/using-the-accelerometer-on-windows-phone-7.aspx
07:45:54 <steveblock> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/SensorManager.html#getRotationMatrix(float[], float[], float[], float[])
07:47:13 <steveblock> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0008.html
07:53:28 <lbolstad> compassCalibrationEvent - when should it be fired? Should it require a listener?
07:53:35 <lbolstad> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/89
07:54:01 <andreip> http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/EventHandling/Conceptual/EventHandlingiPhoneOS/MotionEvents/MotionEvents.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009541-CH4-SW1
07:54:56 <lbolstad> Frequency of the devicemotion event
07:54:57 <lbolstad> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/90
07:56:02 <steveblock> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0011.html
07:57:54 <steveblock> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011May/0017.html
07:59:29 <lbolstad> Location of the origin. http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/92
07:59:34 <matt> issue-92?
07:59:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-92 -- Should we specify the location of the origin ? -- open
07:59:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/92
08:03:27 <lbolstad> Add window.ondevicemotion, window.ondeviceorientation ?
08:03:34 <lbolstad> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/93
08:05:27 <lbolstad> Approximate values in DeviceOrientation
08:05:32 <lbolstad> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/94
08:10:18 <lbolstad> Should we separate out compass heading?
08:10:24 <lbolstad> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/95
08:11:42 <lbolstad> So, issue 88
08:11:45 <matt> issue-88?
08:11:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
08:11:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
08:11:59 <lbolstad> issue-88 ?
08:11:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
08:11:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
08:12:03 <lbolstad> issue-88?
08:12:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
08:12:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
08:13:54 <lbolstad> Steve: Android uses two different coordinate systems
08:20:42 <lbolstad> Regarding compass heading, there's the "Augmented Reality" use case that may or may not be covered by the 6.1.3 Mapping use case
08:21:16 <lbolstad> Steve: No, it's not 
08:21:32 <lbolstad> Should we add that as a fourth use case ?
08:22:35 <lbolstad> AR: Hold the device in a non-horizontal, possibly non-vertical, orientation, then try to calculate the compass heading based on the current event values
08:22:37 <lbolstad> it's hard
08:36:12 <steveblock> steveblock has joined #geolocation
08:36:24 <andreip> andreip has joined #geolocation
08:36:42 <lbolstad> lbolstad has joined #geolocation
08:36:50 <lbolstad> alternatively, we could provide example code in an appendix
08:37:17 <lbolstad> The consensus in the room is that a code example in an appendix is our best option
08:37:23 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:37:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
08:37:42 <matt> rrsagent, make logs public
08:37:47 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:37:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
08:39:24 <matt> Meeting: Geolocation WG F2F 2011 Day 2
08:39:26 <dcheng> dcheng has joined #geolocation
08:39:28 <matt> Chair: Lars Erik
08:40:05 <matt> Present: Lars Erik, Wojciech, Matt, Diana, Steve, Andrei
08:40:53 <wmaslowski_> wmaslowski_ has joined #geolocation
08:41:07 <steveblock> Created http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/actions/79 for adding an example of the AR usecase
08:42:39 <matt> action-79?
08:42:40 <trackbot> ACTION-79 -- Stephen Block to add a worked example for finding the direction the screen is facing -- due 2011-07-05 -- OPEN
08:42:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/actions/79
08:44:31 <andreip> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/microsoft.devices.sensors.accelerometer(v=VS.92).aspx
08:51:29 <lbolstad> Unclear what coordinate system Microsoft is using
08:51:48 <lbolstad> Also unclear why we should align with the vehicle dynamics convention
08:54:41 <lbolstad> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/sensors-api.html
08:55:39 <andreip> http://apidocs.meego.com/1.2/qtmobility/qaccelerometerreading.html
08:56:45 <matt> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/S60_Sensor_Framework 
08:57:51 <lbolstad> so, it seems we're consistent with existing frameworks in the mobile industry at least
08:58:08 <lbolstad> conclusion: We'll keep our current choice of orientation axes
08:59:53 <matt> ISSUE-88?
08:59:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
08:59:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
09:01:44 <lbolstad> Steve will post a reply to the mailing list and close issue-88
09:02:49 <lbolstad> issue-89?
09:02:49 <trackbot> ISSUE-89 -- Should we change how this event is fired? Should it require a listener? -- open
09:02:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/89
09:08:12 <lbolstad> We agree with jgraham's comment and will change the wording in section 4.2 accordingly.
09:08:26 <lbolstad> That is, the event will fire regardless of whether or not there are listeners registered.
09:13:12 <lbolstad> issue-90?
09:13:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-90 -- How frequently should the devicemotion event be fired? -- open
09:13:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/90
09:13:40 <lbolstad> Steve: From looking at Android and iOS the assumption is that the underlying HW updates the data at regular intervals.
09:20:04 <lbolstad> We agree that we need to rephrase this sentence in section 4.3:
09:20:05 <lbolstad> The event must fire at regular intervals and the interval property must provide this interval in milliseconds.
09:21:06 <lbolstad> To better reflect the intention, which is that the interval at which the event is fired should be a best effort based on the underlying hardware interval.
09:26:25 <matt> (I'm worried about flooding of events, either with super fast hardware, or this whole sleep/wake thing)
09:28:39 <lbolstad> issue-91?
09:28:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-91 -- Should we prefix these with Device* ? -- open
09:28:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/91
09:29:28 <lbolstad> Yes, we will make that change
09:29:42 <lbolstad> Steve will take this action, too.
09:30:00 <lbolstad> issue-92?
09:30:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-92 -- Should we specify the location of the origin ? -- open
09:30:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/92
09:36:46 <lbolstad> it is unclear how this is relevant to orientation
09:42:59 <lbolstad> Steve will post a reply to the mailing list asking for clarification
09:43:42 <steveblock> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0031.html
09:44:01 <lbolstad> issue-93?
09:44:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-93 -- Add window.ondevicemotion, window.ondeviceorientation ? -- open
09:44:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/93
09:45:17 <andreip> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#handler-ontimeupdate
09:49:21 <dcheng> dcheng has joined #geolocation
09:52:35 <lbolstad> Andrei will take the action to clarify this issue wrt HTML5
09:53:00 <lbolstad> issue-94?
09:53:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-94 -- Should implementations attempt to calculate values that are not determined by hardware devices? -- open
09:53:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/94
09:55:57 <lbolstad> The consensus is no, we should not do that
09:56:33 <lbolstad> issue-95?
09:56:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-95 -- Should we separate out compass heading? -- open
09:56:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/95
10:02:12 <steveblock> re issue 94 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0032.html
10:41:43 <matt> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-geolocation/2011Jun/0005.html
10:45:27 <matt> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/charter/charter-2 Charter 2
10:46:22 <matt> matt: As it stands, V2 we say it's v1 plus civic addressing
10:46:27 <matt> steveblock: And the vertical component of velocity
10:46:44 <matt> ISSUE-87?
10:46:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-87 -- Consider exposing the vertical component of velocity -- open
10:46:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/87
10:47:44 <lbolstad> TOPIC: Geolocation v2
10:56:26 <steveblock> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/97
10:56:31 <lbolstad> issue-7?
10:56:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- Should heading & speed be moved out of the Coordinates interface? -- open
10:56:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/7
11:05:33 <matt> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2009Mar/0152.html Allan's initial comments about heading
11:05:41 <matt> [[Heading/Direction (less so) and speed (more so) are not specific to
11:05:42 <matt> geospatial information AND are common to both civic as well as
11:05:43 <matt> geospatial location objects. Suggest heading/direction and speed should
11:05:43 <matt> be a separate object that can be referenced by both civic and geospatial
11:05:43 <matt> positions.]]
11:17:33 <lbolstad> at the previous f2f we discussed the use case where an application wants just the velocity (and/or heading), and not the location
11:18:11 <lbolstad> there's (arguably) no privacy concerns related to velocity/heading/altitude, which is an argument for separating them out 
11:20:34 <lbolstad> backwards compatibility with v1 is also important
11:21:00 <lbolstad> andreip: We could simply make all attributes in the Coordinates interface optional
11:48:44 <lbolstad> Wojciech: Proposal is to add two new optional attributes to PositionOptions:
11:49:03 <lbolstad> requestCoordinates (default: true), requestAddress (default: false)
11:50:11 <lbolstad> In the Position object, we make the coords attribute optional and add an address attribute, also optional
11:52:27 <lbolstad> if requestCoordinates AND requestAddress are both absent in PositionOptions, an implementation MUST return coordinates
11:52:37 <lbolstad> in order to preserve backwards compatibility
12:15:25 <andreip> andreip has joined #geolocation
12:16:23 <lbolstad> slightly different proposal from Steve: requireCoordinates (default: true) instead of requestCoordinates
12:21:12 <lbolstad> third proposal from andreip: add getCurrenPositionv2() with the semantics of the above proposals, just to get rid of the additional flags in PositionOptions
12:28:29 <lbolstad> requireLatLong is probably a better name than requireCoordinates, since an app could still get e.g. speed from the Coordinates if this flag is set to false
12:42:37 <wmaslowski_> wmaslowski_ has joined #geolocation
12:43:28 <lbolstad> we have consensus in the meeting room that this is a good resolution to issue-7
12:43:41 <lbolstad> Steve will write it up and post in on the mailing list
12:44:14 <lbolstad> it also means that we won't do what's proposed in issue-96
12:48:44 <matt> s/this is a good/either a new method or requireLatitudeLongitudeAccuracy is a good resolution/
12:48:46 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:48:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
12:49:16 <matt> Chair: Lars Erik
12:49:35 <matt> Present: Matt, Lars Erik, Steve, Andrei, Wojciech, Diana
12:49:44 <matt> Meeting: Geolocation F2F 2011 Day 2
12:49:47 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:49:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
12:50:32 <andreip> andreip has joined #geolocation
12:50:39 <matt> ISSUE-43?
12:50:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-43 -- Proximity interface -- open
12:50:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/43
13:11:17 <matt> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/0AE22AEC018BB545AF73E857508212C91F45ED@ex-be1.dash.net Proximity alarm end of thread
13:18:17 <matt> ACTION-70?
13:18:17 <trackbot> ACTION-70 -- Andrei Popescu to add use cases from F2F to V2 spec -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
13:18:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/actions/70
13:25:42 <matt> issue-85?
13:25:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- Replace the document origin URI requirement with something else? -- open
13:25:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/85
13:33:22 <steveblock> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/geo/api/spec-source.html.diff?r1=1.91;r2=1.92;f=h
13:33:50 <wmaslowski_> wmaslowski_ has joined #geolocation
13:51:56 <andreip> andreip has joined #geolocation
13:55:10 <matt> -> http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#VTG NMEA string
13:56:09 <lbolstad> Just quickly documenting what we decided on the issues...
13:56:43 <lbolstad> issue-85: Closed. We already made the requested change in v1 and keep that in v2
13:56:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-85 Replace the document origin URI requirement with something else? notes added
13:56:57 <lbolstad> issue-86?
13:56:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- There is no way to pass additional arguments to geolocation callbacks -- closed
13:56:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/86
13:57:05 <matt> CLOSE ISSUE-85
13:57:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-85 Replace the document origin URI requirement with something else? closed
13:57:16 <lbolstad> Andre will close issue-86 based on f2f discussions with hixie
13:57:30 <lbolstad> issue-81?
13:57:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-81 -- Civic address format transformations -- open
13:57:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/81
13:57:39 <andreip> http://gpsinformation.net/main/gpsspeed.htm
13:57:53 <lbolstad> Will be closed when Action-57 is.
13:58:11 <lbolstad> issue-87?
13:58:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-87 -- Consider exposing the vertical component of velocity -- open
13:58:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/87
13:59:31 <steveblock> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/99
14:00:37 <lbolstad> issue-99?
14:00:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-99 -- Need to clarify whether speed property is magintude of velocity or horizontal component -- open
14:00:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/99
14:03:41 <lbolstad> so, the resolution to issue-87 is that we will expose the vertical component in v2
14:03:53 <lbolstad> issue-97?
14:03:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Do we need FunctionOnly attribute on the callback interfaces? -- open
14:03:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/97
14:07:20 <matt> -> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#Callback 
14:11:39 <steveblock> steveblock has joined #geolocation
14:12:01 <matt> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20110317204203.GG1187@wok.mcc.id.au DAP mail about FunctionOnly
14:16:11 <matt> -> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/geo/api/spec-source.html?rev=1.62;content-type=text%2Fhtml Added FunctionOnly
14:23:53 <matt> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0000.html Ollie's email
14:24:21 <lbolstad> The consensus is that we'll change [FunctionOnly] to [Callback] in v2, not in v1.
14:35:11 <lbolstad> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:35:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html lbolstad
14:36:47 <wmaslowski_> wmaslowski_ has joined #geolocation
14:46:46 <matt> -> http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=pr-tr PR Transition steps
14:55:03 <matt> -> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#sec-Exclusion Exclusions rules from PP
14:59:07 <steveblock> steveblock has joined #geolocation
15:00:35 <matt> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-orientation-event-20110628/ DeviceOrientation Event dated version
15:00:56 <matt> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/orientation-event/ Undated DeviceOrientation Event (will be updated at publication time)
17:11:28 <npdoty> npdoty has joined #geolocation
17:37:35 <lbolstad> lbolstad has joined #geolocation
17:37:52 <lbolstad> lbolstad has left #geolocation