IRC log of geolocation on 2011-06-28
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 07:31:01 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #geolocation
- 07:31:01 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-irc
- 07:31:11 [lbolstad]
- scribe: lbolstad
- 07:32:00 [lbolstad]
- TOPIC: Device Orientation
- 07:34:28 [matt]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-orientation-event-20110628/
- 07:39:33 [lbolstad]
- FPWD published today
- 07:39:34 [steveblock]
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- 07:39:38 [steveblock]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011May/0001.html
- 07:44:29 [lbolstad]
- We'll first create issues from topics that have been brought up on the mailing list
- 07:44:46 [lbolstad]
- Should we change the orientation axes?
- 07:44:46 [lbolstad]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
- 07:45:31 [steveblock]
- http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/SensorManager.html#getOrientation(float[], float[])
- 07:45:40 [matt]
- http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2010/09/08/using-the-accelerometer-on-windows-phone-7.aspx
- 07:45:54 [steveblock]
- http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/SensorManager.html#getRotationMatrix(float[], float[], float[], float[])
- 07:47:13 [steveblock]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0008.html
- 07:53:28 [lbolstad]
- compassCalibrationEvent - when should it be fired? Should it require a listener?
- 07:53:35 [lbolstad]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/89
- 07:54:01 [andreip]
- http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/EventHandling/Conceptual/EventHandlingiPhoneOS/MotionEvents/MotionEvents.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009541-CH4-SW1
- 07:54:56 [lbolstad]
- Frequency of the devicemotion event
- 07:54:57 [lbolstad]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/90
- 07:56:02 [steveblock]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0011.html
- 07:57:54 [steveblock]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011May/0017.html
- 07:59:29 [lbolstad]
- Location of the origin. http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/92
- 07:59:34 [matt]
- issue-92?
- 07:59:34 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-92 -- Should we specify the location of the origin ? -- open
- 07:59:34 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/92
- 08:03:27 [lbolstad]
- Add window.ondevicemotion, window.ondeviceorientation ?
- 08:03:34 [lbolstad]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/93
- 08:05:27 [lbolstad]
- Approximate values in DeviceOrientation
- 08:05:32 [lbolstad]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/94
- 08:10:18 [lbolstad]
- Should we separate out compass heading?
- 08:10:24 [lbolstad]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/95
- 08:11:42 [lbolstad]
- So, issue 88
- 08:11:45 [matt]
- issue-88?
- 08:11:45 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
- 08:11:45 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
- 08:11:59 [lbolstad]
- issue-88 ?
- 08:11:59 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
- 08:11:59 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
- 08:12:03 [lbolstad]
- issue-88?
- 08:12:03 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
- 08:12:03 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
- 08:13:54 [lbolstad]
- Steve: Android uses two different coordinate systems
- 08:20:42 [lbolstad]
- Regarding compass heading, there's the "Augmented Reality" use case that may or may not be covered by the 6.1.3 Mapping use case
- 08:21:16 [lbolstad]
- Steve: No, it's not
- 08:21:32 [lbolstad]
- Should we add that as a fourth use case ?
- 08:22:35 [lbolstad]
- AR: Hold the device in a non-horizontal, possibly non-vertical, orientation, then try to calculate the compass heading based on the current event values
- 08:22:37 [lbolstad]
- it's hard
- 08:36:12 [steveblock]
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- 08:36:24 [andreip]
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- 08:36:42 [lbolstad]
- lbolstad has joined #geolocation
- 08:36:50 [lbolstad]
- alternatively, we could provide example code in an appendix
- 08:37:17 [lbolstad]
- The consensus in the room is that a code example in an appendix is our best option
- 08:37:23 [matt]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 08:37:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
- 08:37:42 [matt]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 08:37:47 [matt]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 08:37:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
- 08:39:24 [matt]
- Meeting: Geolocation WG F2F 2011 Day 2
- 08:39:26 [dcheng]
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- 08:39:28 [matt]
- Chair: Lars Erik
- 08:40:05 [matt]
- Present: Lars Erik, Wojciech, Matt, Diana, Steve, Andrei
- 08:40:53 [wmaslowski_]
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- 08:41:07 [steveblock]
- Created http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/actions/79 for adding an example of the AR usecase
- 08:42:39 [matt]
- action-79?
- 08:42:40 [trackbot]
- ACTION-79 -- Stephen Block to add a worked example for finding the direction the screen is facing -- due 2011-07-05 -- OPEN
- 08:42:40 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/actions/79
- 08:44:31 [andreip]
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/microsoft.devices.sensors.accelerometer(v=VS.92).aspx
- 08:51:29 [lbolstad]
- Unclear what coordinate system Microsoft is using
- 08:51:48 [lbolstad]
- Also unclear why we should align with the vehicle dynamics convention
- 08:54:41 [lbolstad]
- http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/sensors-api.html
- 08:55:39 [andreip]
- http://apidocs.meego.com/1.2/qtmobility/qaccelerometerreading.html
- 08:56:45 [matt]
- http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/S60_Sensor_Framework
- 08:57:51 [lbolstad]
- so, it seems we're consistent with existing frameworks in the mobile industry at least
- 08:58:08 [lbolstad]
- conclusion: We'll keep our current choice of orientation axes
- 08:59:53 [matt]
- ISSUE-88?
- 08:59:53 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-88 -- Should we change the orientation axes ? -- open
- 08:59:53 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/88
- 09:01:44 [lbolstad]
- Steve will post a reply to the mailing list and close issue-88
- 09:02:49 [lbolstad]
- issue-89?
- 09:02:49 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-89 -- Should we change how this event is fired? Should it require a listener? -- open
- 09:02:49 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/89
- 09:08:12 [lbolstad]
- We agree with jgraham's comment and will change the wording in section 4.2 accordingly.
- 09:08:26 [lbolstad]
- That is, the event will fire regardless of whether or not there are listeners registered.
- 09:13:12 [lbolstad]
- issue-90?
- 09:13:12 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-90 -- How frequently should the devicemotion event be fired? -- open
- 09:13:12 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/90
- 09:13:40 [lbolstad]
- Steve: From looking at Android and iOS the assumption is that the underlying HW updates the data at regular intervals.
- 09:20:04 [lbolstad]
- We agree that we need to rephrase this sentence in section 4.3:
- 09:20:05 [lbolstad]
- The event must fire at regular intervals and the interval property must provide this interval in milliseconds.
- 09:21:06 [lbolstad]
- To better reflect the intention, which is that the interval at which the event is fired should be a best effort based on the underlying hardware interval.
- 09:26:25 [matt]
- (I'm worried about flooding of events, either with super fast hardware, or this whole sleep/wake thing)
- 09:28:39 [lbolstad]
- issue-91?
- 09:28:39 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-91 -- Should we prefix these with Device* ? -- open
- 09:28:39 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/91
- 09:29:28 [lbolstad]
- Yes, we will make that change
- 09:29:42 [lbolstad]
- Steve will take this action, too.
- 09:30:00 [lbolstad]
- issue-92?
- 09:30:00 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-92 -- Should we specify the location of the origin ? -- open
- 09:30:00 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/92
- 09:36:46 [lbolstad]
- it is unclear how this is relevant to orientation
- 09:42:59 [lbolstad]
- Steve will post a reply to the mailing list asking for clarification
- 09:43:42 [steveblock]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0031.html
- 09:44:01 [lbolstad]
- issue-93?
- 09:44:01 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-93 -- Add window.ondevicemotion, window.ondeviceorientation ? -- open
- 09:44:01 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/93
- 09:45:17 [andreip]
- http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#handler-ontimeupdate
- 09:49:21 [dcheng]
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- 09:52:35 [lbolstad]
- Andrei will take the action to clarify this issue wrt HTML5
- 09:53:00 [lbolstad]
- issue-94?
- 09:53:00 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-94 -- Should implementations attempt to calculate values that are not determined by hardware devices? -- open
- 09:53:00 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/94
- 09:55:57 [lbolstad]
- The consensus is no, we should not do that
- 09:56:33 [lbolstad]
- issue-95?
- 09:56:33 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-95 -- Should we separate out compass heading? -- open
- 09:56:33 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/95
- 10:02:12 [steveblock]
- re issue 94 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0032.html
- 10:41:43 [matt]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-geolocation/2011Jun/0005.html
- 10:45:27 [matt]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/charter/charter-2 Charter 2
- 10:46:22 [matt]
- matt: As it stands, V2 we say it's v1 plus civic addressing
- 10:46:27 [matt]
- steveblock: And the vertical component of velocity
- 10:46:44 [matt]
- ISSUE-87?
- 10:46:44 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-87 -- Consider exposing the vertical component of velocity -- open
- 10:46:44 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/87
- 10:47:44 [lbolstad]
- TOPIC: Geolocation v2
- 10:56:26 [steveblock]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/97
- 10:56:31 [lbolstad]
- issue-7?
- 10:56:31 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-7 -- Should heading & speed be moved out of the Coordinates interface? -- open
- 10:56:31 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/7
- 11:05:33 [matt]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2009Mar/0152.html Allan's initial comments about heading
- 11:05:41 [matt]
- [[Heading/Direction (less so) and speed (more so) are not specific to
- 11:05:42 [matt]
- geospatial information AND are common to both civic as well as
- 11:05:43 [matt]
- geospatial location objects. Suggest heading/direction and speed should
- 11:05:43 [matt]
- be a separate object that can be referenced by both civic and geospatial
- 11:05:43 [matt]
- positions.]]
- 11:17:33 [lbolstad]
- at the previous f2f we discussed the use case where an application wants just the velocity (and/or heading), and not the location
- 11:18:11 [lbolstad]
- there's (arguably) no privacy concerns related to velocity/heading/altitude, which is an argument for separating them out
- 11:20:34 [lbolstad]
- backwards compatibility with v1 is also important
- 11:21:00 [lbolstad]
- andreip: We could simply make all attributes in the Coordinates interface optional
- 11:48:44 [lbolstad]
- Wojciech: Proposal is to add two new optional attributes to PositionOptions:
- 11:49:03 [lbolstad]
- requestCoordinates (default: true), requestAddress (default: false)
- 11:50:11 [lbolstad]
- In the Position object, we make the coords attribute optional and add an address attribute, also optional
- 11:52:27 [lbolstad]
- if requestCoordinates AND requestAddress are both absent in PositionOptions, an implementation MUST return coordinates
- 11:52:37 [lbolstad]
- in order to preserve backwards compatibility
- 12:15:25 [andreip]
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- 12:16:23 [lbolstad]
- slightly different proposal from Steve: requireCoordinates (default: true) instead of requestCoordinates
- 12:21:12 [lbolstad]
- third proposal from andreip: add getCurrenPositionv2() with the semantics of the above proposals, just to get rid of the additional flags in PositionOptions
- 12:28:29 [lbolstad]
- requireLatLong is probably a better name than requireCoordinates, since an app could still get e.g. speed from the Coordinates if this flag is set to false
- 12:42:37 [wmaslowski_]
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- 12:43:28 [lbolstad]
- we have consensus in the meeting room that this is a good resolution to issue-7
- 12:43:41 [lbolstad]
- Steve will write it up and post in on the mailing list
- 12:44:14 [lbolstad]
- it also means that we won't do what's proposed in issue-96
- 12:48:44 [matt]
- s/this is a good/either a new method or requireLatitudeLongitudeAccuracy is a good resolution/
- 12:48:46 [matt]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:48:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
- 12:49:16 [matt]
- Chair: Lars Erik
- 12:49:35 [matt]
- Present: Matt, Lars Erik, Steve, Andrei, Wojciech, Diana
- 12:49:44 [matt]
- Meeting: Geolocation F2F 2011 Day 2
- 12:49:47 [matt]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:49:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html matt
- 12:50:32 [andreip]
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- 12:50:39 [matt]
- ISSUE-43?
- 12:50:39 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-43 -- Proximity interface -- open
- 12:50:39 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/43
- 13:11:17 [matt]
- -> http://www.w3.org/mid/0AE22AEC018BB545AF73E857508212C91F45ED@ex-be1.dash.net Proximity alarm end of thread
- 13:18:17 [matt]
- ACTION-70?
- 13:18:17 [trackbot]
- ACTION-70 -- Andrei Popescu to add use cases from F2F to V2 spec -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
- 13:18:17 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/actions/70
- 13:25:42 [matt]
- issue-85?
- 13:25:43 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-85 -- Replace the document origin URI requirement with something else? -- open
- 13:25:43 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/85
- 13:33:22 [steveblock]
- http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/geo/api/spec-source.html.diff?r1=1.91;r2=1.92;f=h
- 13:33:50 [wmaslowski_]
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- 13:51:56 [andreip]
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- 13:55:10 [matt]
- -> http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#VTG NMEA string
- 13:56:09 [lbolstad]
- Just quickly documenting what we decided on the issues...
- 13:56:43 [lbolstad]
- issue-85: Closed. We already made the requested change in v1 and keep that in v2
- 13:56:44 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-85 Replace the document origin URI requirement with something else? notes added
- 13:56:57 [lbolstad]
- issue-86?
- 13:56:57 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-86 -- There is no way to pass additional arguments to geolocation callbacks -- closed
- 13:56:57 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/86
- 13:57:05 [matt]
- CLOSE ISSUE-85
- 13:57:05 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-85 Replace the document origin URI requirement with something else? closed
- 13:57:16 [lbolstad]
- Andre will close issue-86 based on f2f discussions with hixie
- 13:57:30 [lbolstad]
- issue-81?
- 13:57:30 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-81 -- Civic address format transformations -- open
- 13:57:30 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/81
- 13:57:39 [andreip]
- http://gpsinformation.net/main/gpsspeed.htm
- 13:57:53 [lbolstad]
- Will be closed when Action-57 is.
- 13:58:11 [lbolstad]
- issue-87?
- 13:58:11 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-87 -- Consider exposing the vertical component of velocity -- open
- 13:58:11 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/87
- 13:59:31 [steveblock]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/99
- 14:00:37 [lbolstad]
- issue-99?
- 14:00:37 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-99 -- Need to clarify whether speed property is magintude of velocity or horizontal component -- open
- 14:00:37 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/99
- 14:03:41 [lbolstad]
- so, the resolution to issue-87 is that we will expose the vertical component in v2
- 14:03:53 [lbolstad]
- issue-97?
- 14:03:53 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-97 -- Do we need FunctionOnly attribute on the callback interfaces? -- open
- 14:03:53 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/track/issues/97
- 14:07:20 [matt]
- -> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#Callback
- 14:11:39 [steveblock]
- steveblock has joined #geolocation
- 14:12:01 [matt]
- -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20110317204203.GG1187@wok.mcc.id.au DAP mail about FunctionOnly
- 14:16:11 [matt]
- -> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/geo/api/spec-source.html?rev=1.62;content-type=text%2Fhtml Added FunctionOnly
- 14:23:53 [matt]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2011Jun/0000.html Ollie's email
- 14:24:21 [lbolstad]
- The consensus is that we'll change [FunctionOnly] to [Callback] in v2, not in v1.
- 14:35:11 [lbolstad]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:35:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-geolocation-minutes.html lbolstad
- 14:36:47 [wmaslowski_]
- wmaslowski_ has joined #geolocation
- 14:46:46 [matt]
- -> http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=pr-tr PR Transition steps
- 14:55:03 [matt]
- -> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#sec-Exclusion Exclusions rules from PP
- 14:59:07 [steveblock]
- steveblock has joined #geolocation
- 15:00:35 [matt]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-orientation-event-20110628/ DeviceOrientation Event dated version
- 15:00:56 [matt]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/orientation-event/ Undated DeviceOrientation Event (will be updated at publication time)
- 17:11:28 [npdoty]
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