IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-05-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 21:26:10 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/25-html-a11y-irc
- 21:26:12 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 21:26:12 [Zakim]
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- Zakim, this will be 2119
- 21:26:14 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
- 21:26:15 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 21:26:15 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 May 2011
- 21:26:41 [janina]
- zakim, agenda?
- 21:26:41 [Zakim]
- I see nothing on the agenda
- 21:27:11 [janina]
- Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
- 21:27:11 [janina]
- Chair: Janina_Sajka
- 21:27:11 [janina]
- agenda: this
- 21:27:11 [janina]
- agenda+ Identify Scribe
- 21:27:11 [janina]
- agenda+ Clean Audio: What shall WE call it?
- 21:27:11 [janina]
- agenda+ Paused Media: Continuing Discussion
- 21:27:13 [janina]
- agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
- 21:27:15 [janina]
- agenda+ Other Business?
- 21:27:18 [janina]
- agenda+ be done
- 21:27:19 [janina]
-
- 21:27:27 [Zakim]
- WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has now started
- 21:27:34 [Zakim]
- +??P1
- 21:27:43 [janina]
- zakim, ??P1 is Janina
- 21:27:43 [Zakim]
- +Janina; got it
- 21:28:10 [Zakim]
- +Sean
- 21:31:26 [janina]
- regrets: John_Foliot, Marc_Watson
- 21:32:03 [Zakim]
- +silvia
- 21:33:36 [Zakim]
- +Judy
- 21:34:18 [silvia]
- scribe: silvia
- 21:34:48 [silvia]
- next item
- 21:35:05 [janina]
- zakim, close item 1
- 21:35:05 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
- 21:35:06 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 21:35:08 [Zakim]
- 2. Clean Audio: What shall WE call it? [from janina]
- 21:35:13 [janina]
- zakim, next item
- 21:35:13 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Clean Audio: What shall WE call it?" taken up [from janina]
- 21:35:37 [Zakim]
- +Eric
- 21:36:56 [Sean_]
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- 21:37:33 [silvia]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:37:33 [Zakim]
- silvia should now be muted
- 21:38:10 [judy]
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- 21:38:41 [silvia]
- zakim, unmute me
- 21:38:41 [Zakim]
- silvia should no longer be muted
- 21:45:38 [silvia]
- discussion about what the tracks are
- 21:46:05 [silvia]
- one type is a multi-channel mix in one track, where one channel has speech-only
- 21:46:17 [silvia]
- such a track is an alternative to main audio
- 21:46:37 [silvia]
- another type is an additional track that contains only speech and can be increased in volume over other tracks
- 21:46:48 [silvia]
- proposal is that we may need both
- 21:47:09 [silvia]
- however there is not enough real-world use case knowledge in the group to validate the use case
- 21:47:25 [silvia]
- we will seek further input from experts before making a decision
- 21:47:36 [silvia]
- zakim, close item 2
- 21:47:36 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, Clean Audio: What shall WE call it?, closed
- 21:47:37 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 21:47:39 [Zakim]
- 3. Paused Media: Continuing Discussion [from janina]
- 21:48:18 [silvia]
- janina: last week we seemed to have a solution for how to appropriately mark up alternative text, both short and long for video
- 21:48:32 [silvia]
- including poster
- 21:48:48 [silvia]
- both for graphical and non-graphical browsers
- 21:48:55 [silvia]
- I took it to PF today
- 21:49:23 [silvia]
- for example to find out if we retain language markup
- 21:49:39 [silvia]
- and the answer is: yes - the markup is retained for elements, but not for attributes
- 21:51:12 [silvia]
- however, if you go into a non-graphical browsing mode, I'm not sure we are safe
- 21:52:17 [silvia]
- eric: a non-graphical browser would not support the video element and thus should take the fallback inside it
- 21:53:57 [silvia]
- silvia: a lynx developer seemed to indicate that once a non-graphical browser supports html5, it would not display the content inside the video element
- 21:54:25 [silvia]
- instead it would compose such text from the video element's attributes
- 21:54:41 [silvia]
- I am not even sure we should be discussing this here in the a11y TF, but it's an issue for the larger group
- 21:55:14 [silvia]
- eric: it would then also have to support the aria attributes so it should have enough information from aria-describedby as we have suggested it
- 21:55:39 [silvia]
- janina: what are the next steps? need to discuss in the wider community?
- 21:55:46 [silvia]
- I wanted to introduce it into WAI today
- 21:56:38 [silvia]
- sean, eric: seems a fine solution
- 21:58:33 [silvia]
- silvia: the issue that John indicated was that when aria-describedby points to structured markup, screenreaders currently just read it out as text
- 21:58:56 [silvia]
- when it should in fact be read out as structured markup, e.g. including URLs
- 21:59:21 [silvia]
- Janina: yes, PF also agrees with this and screenreaders need to start interpreting such text correctly
- 22:00:07 [silvia]
- next step should be to get this information out more widely so we get good information on that
- 22:01:16 [silvia]
- janina: should this go into the HTML5 spec and / or into the HTML a11y User Agent implementation guide
- 22:01:44 [silvia]
- silvia: there is no spec change necessary for HTML5, but it might be good to add an example into it to get the approach in front of more eyes
- 22:02:29 [silvia]
- eric: what we need to explain to people is how aria-describeby works
- 22:03:17 [janina]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20100504
- 22:03:36 [janina]
- sorry wrong ...
- 22:04:26 [janina]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/html-alt-techniques/
- 22:04:50 [silvia]
- it should probably go into the HTML alt techniques document
- 22:05:16 [silvia]
- janina: we also want it in the user agent guide, too
- 22:05:26 [silvia]
- in particular that that level of markup should be supported
- 22:05:40 [silvia]
- e.g. that uris need to be interpreted
- 22:06:02 [silvia]
- eric, silvia: sounds fine by me
- 22:06:12 [silvia]
- janina: will forward it in both cases
- 22:07:46 [silvia]
- silvia: the only thing that we may need a change proposal for, if we still want it, is the @transcript attribute
- 22:08:15 [silvia]
- it could be replaced by a @longdesc attribute as a means to link to a full transcript
- 22:08:26 [silvia]
- sean: I think they are semantically different
- 22:09:33 [silvia]
- silvia: instead we can just have it inside the aria-describedby markup just like we have it for the poster long description
- 22:09:58 [silvia]
- <video src="file.mp4" poster="poster.png" aria-describedby="posteralt videosummary" aria-label="MyPlayer video player">
- 22:09:58 [silvia]
- <p id="videosummary">A Clockwork Orange Trailer (<a href="transcript.html">Transcript</a>)</p>
- 22:09:58 [silvia]
- <p id="posteralt">Poster frame is a clockwork orange movie poster (<a href="posterlongdesc.html">long description</a>)</p>
- 22:09:58 [silvia]
- <p><a href="file.mp4">Download the video file</a></p>
- 22:09:58 [silvia]
- </video>
- 22:12:30 [silvia]
- there is a lot of indirection now
- 22:12:39 [silvia]
- sean: is the fallback content even in the dom?
- 22:12:44 [silvia]
- eric, silvia: yes it is
- 22:14:26 [silvia]
- sean: with this markup, there is no semantic markup that a machine can rely on to interprete as the transcript
- 22:14:31 [silvia]
- the user has no way to get at that content
- 22:15:35 [silvia]
- silvia: yes, an attribute @transcript would allow creating a context menu item for users
- 22:16:12 [silvia]
- so do we want to start a discussion in the larger HTML5 group about introducing such an attribute?
- 22:16:57 [silvia]
- I can start such an email discussion on public-html
- 22:17:05 [silvia]
- janina: yes
- 22:17:10 [silvia]
- … general agreement
- 22:18:10 [silvia]
- ACTION: janina to work with authors of HTML alt techniques document and HTML a11y user agent implementation guide to add the aria-describedby video example there
- 22:18:11 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-127 - Work with authors of HTML alt techniques document and HTML a11y user agent implementation guide to add the aria-describedby video example there [on Janina Sajka - due 2011-06-01].
- 22:18:29 [silvia]
- ACTION: silvia to follow-up on @transcript attribute
- 22:18:29 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-128 - Follow-up on @transcript attribute [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2011-06-01].
- 22:18:47 [silvia]
- zakim, close item 3
- 22:18:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 3, Paused Media: Continuing Discussion, closed
- 22:18:48 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 22:18:50 [Zakim]
- 4. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
- 22:21:30 [silvia]
- Judy will follow up on a reply to the ISO/MPEG group
- 22:21:46 [silvia]
- re kind attribute values
- 22:21:58 [silvia]
- other actions are still open and continue
- 22:22:41 [silvia]
- there is also a bug on providing track usage examples - silvia will follow up
- 22:22:47 [silvia]
- zakim, close item 4
- 22:22:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 4, Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open, closed
- 22:22:49 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 22:22:50 [Zakim]
- 5. Other Business? [from janina]
- 22:24:56 [plh]
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- +Plh
- 22:29:34 [silvia]
- note that Google proposed a WebVTT WG charter to W3C
- 22:30:45 [silvia]
- janina: we still have to take up the topic of navigation
- 22:32:07 [Zakim]
- +Eric.a
- 22:32:09 [Zakim]
- -Eric
- 22:33:17 [silvia]
- silvia: had a brief discussion with Ian about this and we may be able to satisfy it with existing techniques - have to look at it in more depth - there's a bug in the HTML bug tracker
- 22:33:29 [silvia]
- janina: keen to look at the Web Audio API
- 22:39:17 [silvia]
- there is an ETSI standard on this for broadcasting
- 22:39:25 [silvia]
- zakim, close item 5
- 22:39:25 [Zakim]
- agendum 5, Other Business?, closed
- 22:39:26 [Zakim]
- I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
- 22:39:26 [Zakim]
- 6. be done [from janina]
- 22:40:11 [Zakim]
- -Eric.a
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- -Sean
- 22:40:15 [Zakim]
- -Judy
- 22:40:17 [Zakim]
- -Plh
- 22:40:20 [silvia]
- zakim, bye
- 22:40:20 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, Sean, silvia, Judy, Eric, Plh
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- rrsagent, make log public
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- rrsagent, make minutes
- 22:40:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/25-html-a11y-minutes.html silvia
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