14:42:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:42:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-irc
14:42:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
14:42:51 <aphillip> trackbot, configure teleconference
14:42:51 <trackbot> Sorry, aphillip, I don't understand 'trackbot, configure teleconference'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:42:59 <aphillip> trackbot, configure telecon
14:42:59 <trackbot> Sorry, aphillip, I don't understand 'trackbot, configure telecon'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:43:30 <aphillip> rackbot, start meeting
14:43:37 <aphillip> trackbot, start meeting
14:43:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:43:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:43:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
14:43:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
14:43:43 <trackbot> Date: 18 May 2011
14:43:55 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:43:57 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:44:01 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:44:23 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011May/0006.html
14:44:32 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:44:38 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:45:04 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world
14:45:14 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:45:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:59:02 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
14:59:38 <kojiishi> kojiishi has joined #i18n
14:59:50 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:56 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
14:59:58 <Zakim> +??P10
15:00:11 <David> David has joined #i18n
15:00:52 <Zakim> +David
15:01:19 <Zakim> +??P19
15:01:42 <kojiishi> zakim, ??p19 is me
15:01:42 <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
15:01:52 <r12a> hi addison, deep in conversation at the moment
15:03:18 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
15:03:44 <matial> I muted on my side
15:04:06 <Zakim> +Norbert
15:05:07 <aphillip> Regrets: Richard, Felix
15:05:34 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda
15:05:54 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
15:06:42 <aphillip> 	Draft a summary for review next week responding to the CSS selectors request outlining potential response(s)
15:06:47 <aphillip> close ACTION-39
15:06:47 <trackbot> ACTION-39 Draft a summary for review next week responding to the CSS selectors request outlining potential response(s) closed
15:07:00 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:08:47 <kojiishi> http://www.w3.org/Style/Japan-2011/
15:08:50 <aphillip> koji: program in kyoto 
15:08:58 <aphillip> ... anyone can attend
15:09:20 <aphillip> ... mostly in japanese, with translations
15:10:18 <aphillip> Topic: HTML5 Last Call
15:11:48 <aphillip> addison: status report on their LC
15:11:52 <aphillip> ... a lot of work coming
15:12:19 <aphillip> Topic: CSS3 Selectors and Normalization
15:12:34 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/mid/131F80DEA635F044946897AFDA9AC3476A92C094DA%2540EX-SEA31-D.ant.amazon.com
15:12:46 <aphillip> akim, who is noisy?
15:12:52 <aphillip> zakim, who is noisy?
15:13:04 <Zakim> aphillip, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: David (41%)
15:13:52 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/39
15:17:02 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/
15:18:25 <aphillip> (discussion of NFC)
15:18:42 <David> My personal feeling is that we say that the comparison of selectors should bheave as if NFC had been applied.
15:20:00 <aphillip> addison: recommend that tools NOT normalize
15:21:11 <David> Many web developers have no control over their tools, or data sources, particularly if transcoding has to be applied, or user entered.
15:21:46 <David> How would most ordinary developers debug a non-match scenario?
15:22:05 <David> zakim, unmute me
15:22:05 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
15:22:28 <aphillip> addison: only "weird corner" of the web?
15:23:21 <aphillip> david: even if its a weird corner, it's a start
15:23:35 <aphillip> ... some users use legacy encodings for a variety of reasons
15:23:42 <aphillip> .... some "normalizing" transcoders don't
15:24:21 <aphillip> ... would completely flummox average users
15:24:56 <aphillip> ... having been on wrong end of it, feel strongly we should encourage that
15:25:40 <aphillip> david: suggesting that "selectors should match as if content were in NFC"
15:27:10 <aphillip> norbert: two ids what are canonically equivalent but use different encodings
15:27:22 <aphillip> ... after this requirement, browsers should reject
15:27:53 <David> zakim, mute me
15:27:53 <Zakim> David should now be muted
15:29:12 <aphillip> addison: may not happen often, since usually legancy encoding mapping is either one character or another
15:30:40 <aphillip> koji: what is intention for action here?
15:30:53 <aphillip> addison: see what our WG agrees to
15:31:13 <David> I would expect UTF-8 CSS selector that is the same word to match the relevant id in a DOM built from an ISO-2022-jp web page.
15:31:42 <David> What would you all expect?
15:32:06 <David> zakim, who is noisy?
15:32:18 <Zakim> David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Addison_Phillips (27%)
15:33:09 <aphillip> norbert: going back to france discussion---cannot reasonably enforce creation of normalized text
15:33:20 <aphillip> ... don't have tools to do it
15:33:32 <aphillip> ... so normalization would have to occur during the comparison
15:33:38 <David> I agree
15:33:48 <aphillip> ... so "when you match selectors, must behave as normalized"
15:34:43 <aphillip> ... as long as result is normalized (can be done when preparing to store selectors or during comparison)
15:34:59 <David> Yes
15:35:20 <aphillip> chair: are we saying we want to recommend normalize in compare?
15:35:26 <aphillip> david: +1
15:35:32 <aphillip> norbert: +1
15:36:45 <aphillip> addison: two choices
15:36:58 <aphillip> .... 1. Normalize in comparison
15:37:07 <aphillip> ... 2. Do not normalize in comparison
15:37:51 <David> I prefer "behave as if Normalisation occured in in comparison".
15:39:45 <aphillip> koji: +1
15:41:05 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison
15:41:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-40 - Rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-05-25].
15:41:51 <aphillip> all: need to review before next meeting so we can respond to CSS WG
15:42:32 <aphillip> Topic: JavaScript and Unicode
15:42:56 <aphillip> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-May/014337.html
15:45:03 <aphillip> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-May/014337.html
15:45:26 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/JavaScriptInternationalization
15:45:32 <Norbert> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-May/014252.html
16:02:26 <David> Zakim, unmute me
16:02:28 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
16:02:58 <matial> +1
16:03:08 <aphillip> chair: is everyone supportive of our working with TC39 on this
16:03:22 <aphillip> norbert: yes
16:03:22 <aphillip> david: yes
16:03:33 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:03:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:04:03 <matial> Bye
16:04:03 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
16:04:04 <Zakim> -kojiishi
16:04:06 <Zakim> -David
16:04:07 <Zakim> -Norbert
16:04:11 <Zakim> -matial
16:04:11 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
16:04:13 <Zakim> Attendees were Addison_Phillips, matial, David, kojiishi, Norbert
16:15:24 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:15:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:15:27 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:15:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
16:15:31 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
16:15:31 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:15:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison [1]
16:15:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-irc#T15-41-05