IRC log of i18n on 2011-05-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:42:37 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18n
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-irc
- 14:42:41 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #i18n
- 14:42:51 [aphillip]
- trackbot, configure teleconference
- 14:42:51 [trackbot]
- Sorry, aphillip, I don't understand 'trackbot, configure teleconference'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
- 14:42:59 [aphillip]
- trackbot, configure telecon
- 14:42:59 [trackbot]
- Sorry, aphillip, I don't understand 'trackbot, configure telecon'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
- 14:43:30 [aphillip]
- rackbot, start meeting
- 14:43:37 [aphillip]
- trackbot, start meeting
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- RRSAgent, make logs world
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- Zakim, this will be 4186
- 14:43:41 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
- 14:43:42 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
- 14:43:43 [trackbot]
- Date: 18 May 2011
- 14:43:55 [aphillip]
- Chair: Addison Phillips
- 14:43:57 [aphillip]
- Scribe: Addison Phillips
- 14:44:01 [aphillip]
- ScribeNick: aphillip
- 14:44:23 [aphillip]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011May/0006.html
- 14:44:32 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 14:44:38 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:44:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:45:04 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, set logs world
- 14:45:14 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:45:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:59:02 [matial]
- matial has joined #i18n
- 14:59:38 [kojiishi]
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- 14:59:50 [Zakim]
- I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
- 14:59:56 [Zakim]
- +Addison_Phillips
- 14:59:58 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 15:00:11 [David]
- David has joined #i18n
- 15:00:52 [Zakim]
- +David
- 15:01:19 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 15:01:42 [kojiishi]
- zakim, ??p19 is me
- 15:01:42 [Zakim]
- +kojiishi; got it
- 15:01:52 [r12a]
- hi addison, deep in conversation at the moment
- 15:03:18 [Norbert]
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- 15:03:44 [matial]
- I muted on my side
- 15:04:06 [Zakim]
- +Norbert
- 15:05:07 [aphillip]
- Regrets: Richard, Felix
- 15:05:34 [aphillip]
- Topic: Agenda
- 15:05:54 [aphillip]
- Topic: Action Items
- 15:06:42 [aphillip]
- Draft a summary for review next week responding to the CSS selectors request outlining potential response(s)
- 15:06:47 [aphillip]
- close ACTION-39
- 15:06:47 [trackbot]
- ACTION-39 Draft a summary for review next week responding to the CSS selectors request outlining potential response(s) closed
- 15:07:00 [aphillip]
- Topic: Info Share
- 15:08:47 [kojiishi]
- http://www.w3.org/Style/Japan-2011/
- 15:08:50 [aphillip]
- koji: program in kyoto
- 15:08:58 [aphillip]
- ... anyone can attend
- 15:09:20 [aphillip]
- ... mostly in japanese, with translations
- 15:10:18 [aphillip]
- Topic: HTML5 Last Call
- 15:11:48 [aphillip]
- addison: status report on their LC
- 15:11:52 [aphillip]
- ... a lot of work coming
- 15:12:19 [aphillip]
- Topic: CSS3 Selectors and Normalization
- 15:12:34 [aphillip]
- http://www.w3.org/mid/131F80DEA635F044946897AFDA9AC3476A92C094DA%2540EX-SEA31-D.ant.amazon.com
- 15:12:46 [aphillip]
- akim, who is noisy?
- 15:12:52 [aphillip]
- zakim, who is noisy?
- 15:13:04 [Zakim]
- aphillip, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: David (41%)
- 15:13:52 [aphillip]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/39
- 15:17:02 [aphillip]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/
- 15:18:25 [aphillip]
- (discussion of NFC)
- 15:18:42 [David]
- My personal feeling is that we say that the comparison of selectors should bheave as if NFC had been applied.
- 15:20:00 [aphillip]
- addison: recommend that tools NOT normalize
- 15:21:11 [David]
- Many web developers have no control over their tools, or data sources, particularly if transcoding has to be applied, or user entered.
- 15:21:46 [David]
- How would most ordinary developers debug a non-match scenario?
- 15:22:05 [David]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:22:05 [Zakim]
- David should no longer be muted
- 15:22:28 [aphillip]
- addison: only "weird corner" of the web?
- 15:23:21 [aphillip]
- david: even if its a weird corner, it's a start
- 15:23:35 [aphillip]
- ... some users use legacy encodings for a variety of reasons
- 15:23:42 [aphillip]
- .... some "normalizing" transcoders don't
- 15:24:21 [aphillip]
- ... would completely flummox average users
- 15:24:56 [aphillip]
- ... having been on wrong end of it, feel strongly we should encourage that
- 15:25:40 [aphillip]
- david: suggesting that "selectors should match as if content were in NFC"
- 15:27:10 [aphillip]
- norbert: two ids what are canonically equivalent but use different encodings
- 15:27:22 [aphillip]
- ... after this requirement, browsers should reject
- 15:27:53 [David]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:27:53 [Zakim]
- David should now be muted
- 15:29:12 [aphillip]
- addison: may not happen often, since usually legancy encoding mapping is either one character or another
- 15:30:40 [aphillip]
- koji: what is intention for action here?
- 15:30:53 [aphillip]
- addison: see what our WG agrees to
- 15:31:13 [David]
- I would expect UTF-8 CSS selector that is the same word to match the relevant id in a DOM built from an ISO-2022-jp web page.
- 15:31:42 [David]
- What would you all expect?
- 15:32:06 [David]
- zakim, who is noisy?
- 15:32:18 [Zakim]
- David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Addison_Phillips (27%)
- 15:33:09 [aphillip]
- norbert: going back to france discussion---cannot reasonably enforce creation of normalized text
- 15:33:20 [aphillip]
- ... don't have tools to do it
- 15:33:32 [aphillip]
- ... so normalization would have to occur during the comparison
- 15:33:38 [David]
- I agree
- 15:33:48 [aphillip]
- ... so "when you match selectors, must behave as normalized"
- 15:34:43 [aphillip]
- ... as long as result is normalized (can be done when preparing to store selectors or during comparison)
- 15:34:59 [David]
- Yes
- 15:35:20 [aphillip]
- chair: are we saying we want to recommend normalize in compare?
- 15:35:26 [aphillip]
- david: +1
- 15:35:32 [aphillip]
- norbert: +1
- 15:36:45 [aphillip]
- addison: two choices
- 15:36:58 [aphillip]
- .... 1. Normalize in comparison
- 15:37:07 [aphillip]
- ... 2. Do not normalize in comparison
- 15:37:51 [David]
- I prefer "behave as if Normalisation occured in in comparison".
- 15:39:45 [aphillip]
- koji: +1
- 15:41:05 [aphillip]
- ACTION: addison: rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison
- 15:41:05 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-40 - Rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-05-25].
- 15:41:51 [aphillip]
- all: need to review before next meeting so we can respond to CSS WG
- 15:42:32 [aphillip]
- Topic: JavaScript and Unicode
- 15:42:56 [aphillip]
- https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-May/014337.html
- 15:45:03 [aphillip]
- https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-May/014337.html
- 15:45:26 [aphillip]
- http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/JavaScriptInternationalization
- 15:45:32 [Norbert]
- https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-May/014252.html
- 16:02:26 [David]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 16:02:28 [Zakim]
- David should no longer be muted
- 16:02:58 [matial]
- +1
- 16:03:08 [aphillip]
- chair: is everyone supportive of our working with TC39 on this
- 16:03:22 [aphillip]
- norbert: yes
- 16:03:22 [aphillip]
- david: yes
- 16:03:33 [aphillip]
- Topic: AOB?
- 16:03:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 16:04:03 [matial]
- Bye
- 16:04:03 [Zakim]
- -Addison_Phillips
- 16:04:04 [Zakim]
- -kojiishi
- 16:04:06 [Zakim]
- -David
- 16:04:07 [Zakim]
- -Norbert
- 16:04:11 [Zakim]
- -matial
- 16:04:11 [Zakim]
- I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
- 16:04:13 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Addison_Phillips, matial, David, kojiishi, Norbert
- 16:15:24 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:15:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 16:15:27 [aphillip]
- zakim, bye
- 16:15:27 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18n
- 16:15:31 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, bye
- 16:15:31 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-actions.rdf :
- 16:15:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: addison: rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison [1]
- 16:15:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-i18n-irc#T15-41-05