IRC log of htmlspeech on 2011-05-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:45:58 [RRSAgent]
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15:45:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-irc
15:46:04 [Zakim]
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15:46:10 [burn]
trackbot, start telcon
15:46:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:46:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
15:46:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:46:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
15:46:15 [trackbot]
Date: 12 May 2011
15:46:18 [burn]
zakim, this will be htmlspeech
15:46:18 [Zakim]
ok, burn; I see INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
15:46:32 [burn]
Chair: Dan Burnett
15:46:43 [burn]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011May/0005.html
15:52:22 [bringert]
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15:54:13 [burn]
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15:54:23 [burn]
zakim, who's here?
15:54:23 [Zakim]
INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has not yet started, burn
15:54:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see burn, bringert, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot
15:55:03 [Zakim]
INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has now started
15:55:10 [Zakim]
+Dan_Burnett
15:55:30 [Zakim]
+ +44.122.546.aaaa
15:55:49 [burn]
zakim, aaaa is Bjorn_Bringert
15:55:49 [Zakim]
+Bjorn_Bringert; got it
15:56:37 [burn]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:56:48 [Zakim]
burn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bjorn_Bringert (45%)
15:57:05 [Zakim]
+Milan_Young
15:57:07 [Zakim]
-Bjorn_Bringert
15:57:29 [bringert]
bringert has joined #htmlspeech
15:57:34 [Milan]
Milan has joined #htmlspeech
15:57:52 [Zakim]
+Michael_Bodell
15:58:15 [mbodell]
mbodell has joined #htmlspeech
15:58:16 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:58:28 [burn]
zakim, [Microsoft] is Robert_Brown
15:58:28 [Zakim]
+Robert_Brown; got it
15:58:37 [bringert_]
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15:58:45 [bringert_]
I'm having connectivity issues
15:58:56 [bringert_]
and it looks like I'm in here twice
15:59:27 [Charles]
Charles has joined #htmlspeech
15:59:35 [Zakim]
+AZ
15:59:56 [burn]
zakim, AZ is Bjorn_Bringert
15:59:56 [Zakim]
+Bjorn_Bringert; got it
16:00:21 [burn]
zakim, who's here?
16:00:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Robert_Brown, Bjorn_Bringert
16:00:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Charles, bringert_, mbodell, Milan, bringert, burn, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot
16:00:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.381.aabb
16:00:26 [ddahl]
ddahl has joined #htmlspeech
16:00:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.830.aacc
16:00:35 [DanD]
DanD has joined #htmlspeech
16:00:37 [burn]
zakim, aabb is Dan_Druta
16:00:37 [Zakim]
+Dan_Druta; got it
16:01:00 [Zakim]
+Debbie_Dahl
16:01:02 [burn]
zakim, aacc is Charles_Hemphill
16:01:02 [Zakim]
+Charles_Hemphill; got it
16:01:03 [robert]
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16:01:32 [satish]
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16:01:50 [ddahl]
bjorn, we can hear you
16:01:59 [bringert]
ok, I can't hear anyone else
16:02:12 [Zakim]
-Bjorn_Bringert
16:02:14 [bringert]
try a different connection
16:02:17 [bringert]
trying
16:02:44 [burn]
Scribe: Dan_Druta
16:02:48 [burn]
ScribeNick: DanD
16:03:39 [burn]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011May/0005.html
16:04:05 [smaug]
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16:04:17 [DanD]
Topic: Updated final report draft
16:04:43 [DanD]
burn: Made a few changes
16:05:22 [DanD]
Burn: Topic: Design Decisions with agreements
16:05:34 [Zakim]
+??P12
16:05:51 [DanD]
Topic: Design Decisions with agreements
16:05:52 [burn]
zakim, ??P12 is Olli_Pettay
16:05:56 [Zakim]
+Olli_Pettay; got it
16:06:02 [smaug]
Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
16:06:02 [Zakim]
ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
16:06:07 [DanD]
Burn: Any new items we agree on?
16:06:19 [DanD]
Burn: No design decisions?
16:06:36 [DanD]
Burn: Any other topics to be discussed later?
16:07:18 [DanD]
Topic: Issues discussed in the appendix
16:07:46 [DanD]
Topic: Audio Codex
16:07:54 [Zakim]
+Michael_Johnston
16:09:37 [DanD]
robert: We don't think we should agree on codex. We should look at a few items: One by bandwidth, ip issues,
16:10:09 [smaug]
s/codex/codec
16:10:25 [DanD]
robert: there are trade offs
16:10:26 [bringert_]
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16:10:56 [Zakim]
+Bjorn_Bringert
16:11:06 [DanD]
robert: fidelity is another issue
16:11:52 [DanD]
burn: We want the ideal codec but there no such thing
16:12:22 [DanD]
burn: Opus is a combination of codecs and an attempt to provide an industry standard
16:12:28 [Zakim]
+Patrick_Ehlen
16:12:42 [DanD]
Milan: RTCWeb is looking at Opus
16:13:13 [DanD]
burn: The issue is which audio codex is mandatory to support
16:13:53 [DanD]
mbodell: The question is if you can recognize an audio file
16:14:32 [DanD]
Milan: is the synthesizer also part of this?
16:15:29 [DanD]
Bringrt: Three items: 1. Codex use for remote speech engine
16:15:35 [bringert]
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16:15:46 [bringert]
1. codecs used between browser and web app specified recognizer
16:16:11 [DanD]
Milan: 2. Codec use for file speech
16:16:16 [bringert]
2. codecs used between web app and browser for recognition of existing audio
16:16:23 [smaug]
there is terrible echo now
16:16:40 [bringert_]
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16:16:46 [burn]
zakim, who's making noise?
16:16:57 [Zakim]
burn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dan_Burnett (43%), Milan_Young (14%), Dan_Druta (14%)
16:17:06 [bringert_]
3. codes used between browser and web app specified synthesizer
16:17:11 [Zakim]
-Bjorn_Bringert
16:17:15 [burn]
zakim, who's making noise?
16:17:25 [Zakim]
burn, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
16:18:15 [Zakim]
+Bjorn_Bringert
16:18:45 [DanD]
mbodell: we should allow other codec to be used
16:18:58 [DanD]
Milan: Sounds like requirements
16:20:24 [DanD]
robert: Microsoft uses SIREN owned by Polycom.
16:20:53 [DanD]
burn: Voxeo support all
16:21:09 [bringert]
Google uses Speex, FLAC and AMR
16:21:36 [Michael]
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16:22:12 [DanD]
Milan: Opus has the notion to cutoff audio and saves bandwidth
16:22:39 [DanD]
Milan: speech has a critical requirement to capture the first part
16:22:54 [DanD]
burn: There are several codecs in Opus
16:23:23 [DanD]
burn: There was an attempt to merge
16:23:59 [DanD]
Michael: is the issue of support in mobile devices (hardware)
16:24:39 [DanD]
Michael: for the mobile browsing we can rely on hardware and fall back
16:25:19 [DanD]
bringert: The one codec that has must support is Speex
16:25:51 [DanD]
bringert: Caution - there's no container format
16:26:26 [DanD]
burn: another issue is transport (framing)
16:26:52 [DanD]
Milan: isn't an IETF standard
16:27:10 [DanD]
burn: It will require some sort of support for RTP
16:27:30 [DanD]
burn: How much SIP support will be needed?
16:28:10 [DanD]
burn: There's disarrangement and not everybody want a full SIP stack
16:28:22 [DanD]
bringert: how about OGG?
16:28:30 [burn]
s/disarrangement/disagreement
16:28:37 [bringert]
Speex codec in OGG container
16:28:42 [burn]
s/disarrangement/disagreement/
16:29:32 [DanD]
burn: It is appropriate not to commit yet and review next week
16:30:01 [DanD]
Milan: It would be useful to know streaming
16:30:49 [DanD]
mbodell: Add a forth item to the list of elements: support for streaming
16:31:18 [DanD]
Milan: can we agree that the architecture should support streaming?
16:32:45 [DanD]
bringert: I'm fine if we support streaming before the engine starts processing
16:33:55 [DanD]
Milan: Recognizer should be able to return results before the end of speech
16:34:52 [DanD]
burn: Recognizer should be able to return final result before the end of speech
16:35:10 [DanD]
bringert: This rules out HTTP
16:36:56 [DanD]
mbodell: You can't get duplex but you can get intermediary responses
16:37:06 [burn]
zakim, who is noisy?
16:37:18 [Zakim]
burn, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Michael_Bodell (12%), Bjorn_Bringert (8%), Milan_Young (73%), Robert_Brown (14%)
16:37:19 [DanD]
Milan: The client can chunk up responses
16:37:58 [DanD]
Milan: Is it a violation if we use web sockets?
16:38:05 [bringert]
I'm muted
16:41:37 [smaug]
burn: we don't seem to have scribe anymore
16:42:21 [DanD]
DanD has joined #htmlspeech
16:42:56 [DanD]
burn: We need to be careful not to go in a different direction from RTCWeb
16:43:25 [DanD]
mbodell: different protocol for different use cases
16:43:44 [DanD]
mbodell: http works well for certain cases
16:44:01 [DanD]
robert: we don't want to over complicate
16:44:23 [DanD]
robert: RTC has a different set of requirements
16:44:57 [DanD]
burn: you are right
16:45:26 [DanD]
bringert: We have two choices: we go with http and add RTCweb
16:45:28 [burn]
zakim, who is noisy?
16:45:39 [Zakim]
burn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Robert_Brown (7%)
16:45:42 [DanD]
robert: or web sockets
16:46:52 [DanD]
bringert: is anyone opposing support for HTTP?
16:47:03 [DanD]
bringert: for streaming
16:47:16 [DanD]
bringert: We support it in Chrome 11
16:48:46 [DanD]
bringert: We want to have http used for other interactions between the user agent and server
16:49:38 [DanD]
mbodell: It's not just audio if we understand correctly
16:50:48 [DanD]
mbodell: different apps would use different approaches
16:51:45 [DanD]
burn: we can't predict how it will be used
16:52:21 [DanD]
Milan: there's a continuous response
16:52:53 [DanD]
robert: I'd like to see a proposal before we agree
16:53:34 [bringert]
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhu-http-fullduplex-02
16:53:35 [Zakim]
-Patrick_Ehlen
16:54:18 [Zakim]
+Patrick_Ehlen
16:55:04 [DanD]
Milan: I agree with a solution that uses HTTP as a basic but not full solution
16:55:28 [DanD]
robert: I would not call Web Sockets HTTP and I'd like to see a proposal
16:55:54 [DanD]
bringert: We should be able to use HTTP
16:56:37 [DanD]
burn: We are saying we are mandating HTTP not eliminating the potential support for other
16:56:52 [burn]
zakim, who is noisy?
16:57:06 [Zakim]
burn, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Charles_Hemphill (3%)
16:57:26 [DanD]
bringert: the server does not know what's supported on the browser
16:57:50 [DanD]
robert: we need some discovery capability
16:58:05 [Zakim]
-Robert_Brown
16:59:13 [DanD]
burn: We believe Web Sockets will not be mandated for support
16:59:38 [DanD]
Milan: I'm not asking for that but a solution for bidirectional support
17:00:01 [DanD]
Milan: if HTTP can do bidirectional we're fine
17:00:36 [DanD]
bringert: there's no reason not support HTTP.
17:01:20 [burn]
bringert: would love bidirectional support if we had a good solid candidate for it
17:01:29 [DanD]
Milan: Instead of saying HTTP is required let's list the elements
17:01:58 [DanD]
bringert: We should require HTTP
17:02:28 [DanD]
burn: Agreement - we require http support for all communications and allow for others
17:03:37 [DanD]
mbodell: I'd like to have a solution for bidirectional support but we should not block the spec
17:04:28 [DanD]
burn: other topics around codecs?
17:04:56 [DanD]
mbodell: some audio codecs that support audio and video
17:05:49 [DanD]
mbodell: recognize audio from a video+audio stream
17:06:28 [DanD]
bringert: I would suggest we don't send video to reduce bandwidth
17:07:23 [DanD]
bringert: if we don't have strong use cases we should not add it to the spec
17:07:24 [Zakim]
-Patrick_Ehlen
17:07:44 [Zakim]
+Patrick_Ehlen
17:08:40 [DanD]
bringert: Should we disallow sending video?
17:09:52 [DanD]
burn: no agreements and the best way is not to make any other statements
17:10:11 [DanD]
burn: add this to the list of topics
17:10:50 [DanD]
burn: nobody is talking about gesture recognition just audio
17:13:04 [DanD]
burn: we will get back to this
17:13:36 [DanD]
burn: Other items related to codecs?
17:14:36 [DanD]
Milan: are there any other candidates:
17:15:04 [DanD]
burn: OPUS. Big but with support for different use cases
17:16:08 [mbodell]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_codecs
17:17:49 [DanD]
Topic: F2F Logistics
17:18:05 [DanD]
bringert: no updates
17:18:42 [DanD]
bringert: I will come back with directions from the hotel to the offices
17:20:11 [DanD]
bringert: We sent the directions from the airport
17:20:30 [DanD]
bringert: everybody should have gotten the email
17:21:32 [DanD]
burn: it would still be good if we have some directions from hotel to the Google offices
17:22:18 [DanD]
burn: one more call before the f2f
17:23:25 [Zakim]
-Milan_Young
17:26:07 [DanD]
bringert: There's a statement about the agreement on the user interface that is not well captured
17:26:34 [DanD]
burn: We need to revise it
17:27:04 [Zakim]
-Michael_Bodell
17:27:09 [Zakim]
-Olli_Pettay
17:27:10 [Zakim]
-Debbie_Dahl
17:27:11 [Zakim]
-Patrick_Ehlen
17:27:21 [Zakim]
-Michael_Johnston
17:27:23 [Zakim]
-Dan_Druta
17:27:42 [bringert]
bringert has joined #htmlspeech
17:27:58 [Zakim]
-Bjorn_Bringert
17:28:24 [burn]
Regrets: Marc_Schroeder
17:28:33 [Zakim]
-Charles_Hemphill
17:30:13 [burn]
s/We need to revise it/Yes, I somehow dropped the most important decision -- that it must NOT be possible to customize the part of the user interface that indicates the microphone is open. I will add that in./
17:30:23 [burn]
s/codex/codecs/g
17:30:40 [Zakim]
-Dan_Burnett
17:30:41 [Zakim]
INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has ended
17:30:42 [Zakim]
Attendees were Dan_Burnett, +44.122.546.aaaa, Bjorn_Bringert, Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Robert_Brown, +1.425.381.aabb, +1.425.830.aacc, Dan_Druta, Debbie_Dahl, Charles_Hemphill,
17:30:45 [Zakim]
... Olli_Pettay, Michael_Johnston, Patrick_Ehlen
17:30:57 [burn]
zakim, bye
17:30:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #htmlspeech
17:31:06 [burn]
rrsagent, make log public
17:31:15 [burn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:31:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
17:31:33 [ddahl]
ddahl has left #htmlspeech
17:32:33 [burn]
s/, +44.122.546.aaaa//
17:33:01 [burn]
s/, +1.425.381.aabb, +1.425.830.aacc//
17:33:08 [burn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:33:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
17:34:51 [burn]
s/Codex/Codecs/g
17:34:56 [burn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:34:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn