14:08:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
14:08:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-aapi-irc
14:08:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
14:08:46 <Andi> zakim, this will be aapi
14:08:47 <Zakim> ok, Andi, I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM already started
14:08:52 <Andi> rrsagent, make logs public
14:08:59 <Andi> rrsagent, make log world
14:09:05 <Andi> Scribe: Andi
14:09:13 <Andi> Meeting: AAPI 
14:09:20 <Andi> Chair: Cynthia
14:09:49 <Andi> SF: work so far hasn't had much input from others
14:10:24 <Andi> SF: can get some information from ARIA UAIG 
14:10:36 <Andi> DB: so need to scope out purpose that each document will serve
14:10:56 <Stevef> http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-api-map/overview.html
14:12:01 <Andi> SF: have been finding differences in name calculation across browsers
14:12:08 <Andi> SF: should be consistent
14:12:32 <Andi> SF: have been mapping out algorithms for providing accessible names
14:13:22 <Andi> SF: label element on form control, name changes depending on whether you wrap with <label> element or use <label for=id>
14:13:54 <Andi> SF: difficult to provide authoring guidance using standard HTML labeling mechanisms to guarantee a particular name or description across browsers
14:14:05 <Andi> DB: probably need two phone calls and a bunch of work in between
14:14:32 <Andi> DB: have automated tests, have schema of rules for name calculation
14:15:24 <Andi> DB: SF had indicated that in some cases, FF was not doing what he wanted
14:15:54 <Andi> CS: need to look at what we're all doing, figure out if differences matter, change where we need to
14:18:25 <Andi> SF: FF does some different things when you have placeholder or title attributes
14:18:47 <Andi> SF: agree we have to weed out the cases where it doesn't really matter
14:18:59 <Andi> SF: need some agreed rules across browsers
14:19:24 <Andi> CS: as we update, there has to be a review loop with people that don't come to these phone calls
14:19:50 <Andi> SF: lot of elements that don't have any particular role mapping - in HTML 5 as well
14:20:04 <Andi> SF: is there a semantic that could be created that would be useful
14:20:20 <Andi> CS: IE 9 used UIA text pattern for a lot of test constructs
14:20:37 <Andi> SF: bunch of new interactive elements and controls, some are simple, some are more complex
14:20:57 <Andi> SF: need to define roles and relationships and how they will be conveyed
14:21:08 <Andi> CS: color picker worries me - UI is totally unspecified by design
14:21:30 <Andi> CS: how do we specify API implementation when we don't know what the UI will be
14:22:11 <Andi> CS: could be a color picker like we think of it but could be list of radio buttons
14:22:40 <Andi> CS: API mappings would be entirely different, depending on what the UI is
14:22:55 <Andi> CS: could be that we don't spec that or have examples of how they might look in the API
14:23:33 <Andi> SF: in the document, have an example for each of the accessible features
14:23:49 <Andi> SF: may not be complete or correct - useful to provide those sort of details
14:24:03 <Andi> SF: has begun to be implemented in Chrome and Webkit
14:24:26 <Andi> SF: but accessibility implementation is nowhere yet
14:25:02 <Andi> CS: so the first step is to review it amongst ourselves, then take it and review with others
14:25:20 <Andi> CS: probably need to try a few things - get input from broader group
14:26:04 <Andi> DB: in terms of the interactive elements, does W3C ever spec out what the mouse/keyboard is supposed to do
14:26:36 <Andi> CS: no, but they spec out the widget in a lot of detail in some cases
14:26:59 <Andi> CS: menu is spec'ed to a great level of detail but the color picker just says to use the OS color picker
14:27:13 <Andi> DB: not sure this is the role of the W3C 
14:27:51 <Andi> CS: agree we can delay dealing with those kinds of things but we need to record an issue
14:29:06 <Andi> CS: implementors need to know that they need to use a color picker that has accessibility or that they have to implement it themselvs
14:29:21 <Andi> CS: may be more functional requirements than the level of detail we normally have in the spec
14:29:55 <Andi> CS: let's pick a section to review next week - attribute section sounds like a good one
14:30:34 <Andi> SF: useful to walk through and decide whether something needs to be in the table or not
14:30:54 <Andi> CS: don't like leaving things out of the table - don't know whether it was just forgotten
14:31:10 <Andi> SF: can include all and indicate which ones are not mapped
14:31:36 <Andi> SF: updated information in the UAIG role mapping that need to be picked up
14:32:44 <Andi> s/attribute section sounds/Section 4 HTML attribute to Accessibility API State and Property Mapping Matrix sounds/
14:33:48 <Zakim> -??P15
14:33:57 <Andi> topic: new Actions
14:34:09 <Andi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10
14:35:21 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
14:36:20 <davidb> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/myQuestionnaires
14:36:28 <Andi> AS: need to have a walk-through of the UAIG
14:36:33 <davidb> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32212/201106_uaig-review/
14:36:43 <Andi> AS: planning to schedule a day-long conference call to do it
14:37:13 <Andi> AS: be sure to answer the survey
14:37:40 <Andi> CS: Friday is looking like the best day 
14:38:14 <Andi> AS: Friday is not a good day for Europeans
14:38:54 <Andi> AS: but don't really think it will take 8 hours so maybe we can get through most of it before they have to leave
14:39:15 <Andi> CS: trying to rearrange some things so that Monday or Tuesday would work
14:39:20 <Andi> DB: have hard stop at 4 ET
14:39:31 <Andi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10
14:40:19 <Andi> Issue 442: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10
14:40:30 <Andi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/442
14:42:21 <Andi> DB: FF exposes aria-valuetext with priority over aria-valuenow
14:42:34 <Andi> DB: think there is a way to get both
14:43:11 <Andi> CS: IE doesn't support aria-valuetext yet so can implement however it makes sense
14:43:57 <Andi> action: Andi take a look at f2f minutes to see if there is relevant discussion that needs to be captured in the Action
14:44:30 <Andi> issue 439: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/439
14:44:50 <Andi> CS: could put in aria properties, AT would have to know the API doesn't support mixed and look for it elsewhere
14:45:41 <Andi> CS: but have to specify what should go in the API, kind think "unchecked" since that's the default but not sure
14:45:59 <Andi> action: Cynthia look at MS APIs to see if any don't support "mixed"
14:46:14 <Andi> action: David to look at IA2 and ATK to see if they don't support "mixed"
14:46:32 <Andi> action: Andi to check with James to see if OS X doesn't support "mixed"
14:47:20 <Andi> CS: if all support, then just need a generic note for any that might not support it to map to whatever API feature you have that for passing a text string
14:47:53 <Andi> issue 440: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/440
14:49:47 <Andi> action 782: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10
14:50:00 <Andi> AS: think this one is already closed
14:51:03 <Andi> action 783 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/783
14:51:14 <Andi> s/action 782:/action 782/
14:51:45 <Andi> DB: IA2 has a role for table caption, even has an event for caption changes
14:51:57 <Andi> DB: feels like an author error 
14:52:09 <Andi> CS: similar to role=presentation and alt
14:52:32 <Andi> CS: if consistent with HTML 5 decision on alt, there isn't anything to apply the name to so it's just text like the rest of the table
14:52:44 <Andi> CS: could put caption role on it but it's not a caption for anything anymore
14:52:54 <Andi> CS: validator will flag as not conforming
14:53:12 <Andi> CS: table with role="presentation" is a layout table
14:53:23 <Andi> CS: maybe we should look at HTML 5 spec and see what to do
14:53:47 <Andi> s/role=presentation/role="presentation"/
14:54:14 <Andi> action: Andi to create bug and assign to David
14:55:55 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
14:56:05 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:56:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-aapi-minutes.html Andi
14:56:13 <Andi> zakim, bye
14:56:13 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were [Mozilla], Andi_Snow-Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly
14:56:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
14:56:56 <Andi> s/[Mozilla]/David_Bolter/
14:57:00 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-aapi-minutes.html Andi
14:57:36 <Andi> present: Cynthia_Shelly, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Steve_Faulkner, David_Bolter
14:57:42 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-aapi-minutes.html Andi
15:01:09 <Stevef> Stevef has left #aapi