14:07:44 RRSAgent has joined #aapi 14:07:44 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-aapi-irc 14:07:54 rrsagent, make logs public 14:08:02 rrsagent, make log world 14:08:11 scribe: Andi 14:08:13 +Cynthia_Shelly 14:08:39 zakim, +1.512.423.aaaa is Andi_Snow-Weaver 14:08:39 +Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it 14:08:54 zakim, [Mozilla] is David_Bolter 14:08:54 +David_Bolter; got it 14:09:39 topic: aria-activedescendant 14:10:14 DB: hard problem to talk about live 14:10:23 CS: think it's too complicated to do in e-mail 14:12:39 topic: bug 9656 14:14:27 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#presentation 14:16:35 DB: if aria-labelledby points to an element with role="presentation", is that an author error? 14:16:53 CS: no, seems similar to display none 14:17:13 DB: to me "presentation" means visual but not meaningful 14:17:35 zakim, mute me 14:17:35 Andi_Snow-Weaver should now be muted 14:17:44 CS: maybe it is bad practice 14:17:53 DB: want to understand how people are using it 14:18:13 CS: not sure if it is, may just be something that came from a comment 14:18:31 CS: label for with display none on it is used fairly regularly 14:19:00 CS: aria-label is better for that but label for with display none is better for backward compatibility 14:20:18 zakim, unmute me 14:20:18 Andi_Snow-Weaver should no longer be muted 14:21:06 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_nd 14:22:28 zakim, mute me 14:22:28 Andi_Snow-Weaver should now be muted 14:23:00 AS: name calculation doesn't say anything about not using aria-labelledby elements if they have role presentation 14:23:07 zakim, unmute me 14:23:07 Andi_Snow-Weaver should no longer be muted 14:23:42 zakim, mute me 14:23:42 Andi_Snow-Weaver should now be muted 14:24:13 AS: if using the accessibility tree for the calculation, the aria-labelledby element won't be there unless it is focusable 14:24:26 FF uses the accessibility tree, IE uses the DOM 14:24:53 zakim, unmute me 14:24:53 Andi_Snow-Weaver should no longer be muted 14:25:40 AS: so FF won't find it in the accessibility tree unless it's focusable 14:26:08 DB: FF may use accessibility tree & DOM tree 14:27:20 DB: what does role="presentation" mean? 14:27:41 CS: to me it means turn it into a

14:27:49 zakim, mute me 14:27:49 Andi_Snow-Weaver should now be muted 14:28:26 chair: Cynthia_Shelly 14:30:01 DB: spec is confusing here "may be used to provide for an accessible fallback in older browsers that do not support WAI-ARIA." 14:31:03 CS: use case of menu being created with

s that contain links 14:31:29
CS:
- gets role of presentation 14:32:24 DB: feels like an author error to me 14:32:39 CS: could put editorial note asking for feedback on valid use cases 14:33:22 DB: what about aria-labelledby that's pointing to something in a table with role presentation 14:33:48 zakim, unmute me 14:33:48 Andi_Snow-Weaver should no longer be muted 14:34:14 AS: layout table sounds like a likely scenario 14:34:46 zakim, mute me 14:34:46 Andi_Snow-Weaver should now be muted 14:35:08 DB: need to find out how people are using it 14:35:48 zakim, unmute me 14:35:48 Andi_Snow-Weaver should no longer be muted 14:38:19 AS: if not changing the spec, can lower priority and won't impact Last Call or ARIA CR 14:38:39 AS: can ask James this morning what Safari is doing 14:39:07 CS: confirmed that IE ignores role presentation 14:39:34 CS: in the name calculation 14:40:18 -Andi_Snow-Weaver 14:41:57 -David_Bolter 14:41:59 -Cynthia_Shelly 14:41:59 WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM has ended 14:42:01 Attendees were Cynthia_Shelly, Andi_Snow-Weaver, David_Bolter 15:13:46 rrsagent, make minutes 15:13:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-aapi-minutes.html Andi 15:13:51 zakim, bye 15:13:51 Zakim has left #aapi 16:02:14 MichaelC_SJO has joined #aapi