14:01:07 RRSAgent has joined #aapi 14:01:07 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc 14:01:14 rrsagent, make logs public 14:01:21 rrsagent, make log world 14:01:33 Scribe: Andi 14:01:42 Meeting: AAPI 14:02:45 davidb has joined #aapi 14:03:05 hi andi 14:04:15 hi David 14:04:24 I hope you can come to the meeting today 14:04:34 rrsagent, off 14:07:48 Zakim, Mozilla has David_Bolter 14:07:48 +David_Bolter; got it 14:07:53 topic: aria-activedescendant 14:08:23 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_at 14:11:50 Andi reads changed text for section 4.3 14:12:26 AS: suggestion that we need a definition for "activation event" 14:12:33 DB: not really sure what that is 14:12:41 AS: in most cases, it would be "click" 14:13:07 DB: why would you not fire a click for a gridcell but you would fire it for a listitem? 14:14:12 http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-pf-minutes.html 14:16:59 [discussion about why would you need to fire an activation event for anything, if this is just about focus] 14:17:04 CS: controversy is about changing the DOM when something outside the browser happens 14:17:35 CS: need to talk to Larry 14:18:00 DB: will read the thread and see if can contribute something 14:18:58 CS: remove "real" from "real DOM focus" 14:19:17 AS: what about definition of "activation event" 14:19:26 CS: is there something we can use in DOM Level 2 14:19:36 CS: DOM Level 3 it was changed to "click" 14:19:51 DB: need to understand if this is a desktop focus event or DOM event 14:19:55 CS: think it's obht 14:20:01 s/obht/both/ 14:20:39 action: Cynthia to look at DOM Level 2 to see if there is a definition we can re-purpose 14:20:55 DB: don't think we need to talk about firing an activation event on Windows and Linux 14:21:14 CS: thinking about doDefaultAction call from AT 14:23:36 DB: looking at the Firefox code, don't cause any activation events 14:23:46 DB: fire focus events 14:24:34 action: David to weigh in on the thread about using focus events instead of activation events 14:25:19 topic: bugs 14:25:20 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=ARIA&component=Platform+APIs 14:26:26 bug 9656: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9656 14:27:02 DB: rule of thumb is always to try to tell screen readers what is on the screen 14:27:19 DB: might not go with the majority 14:27:35 DB: if node has role="presentation" - purely visual, no semantics 14:28:01 DB: putting on something that obviously has semantics, points to a problem with the spec, best practices or an author error 14:28:18 DB: might have come from Steve 14:29:28 AS: have to make sure that rules for role="presentation" cause the right thing to happen in this case 14:30:45 CS: labeling relationships always win in IE 14:30:57 CS: agree it's an author error 14:31:12 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#presentation 14:33:26 DB: would be a special case for FF if we put the text in the tree 14:33:48 DB: special cases for FF seem to be inverse to the special cases for IE 14:35:23 Topic: errors in frames and iframe handling text 14:35:24 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_frames 14:40:13 -Cynthia_Shelly 14:40:46 here is the original: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/ARIA_to_API_mapping#11.3.15_Documents.2c_Handling_.3cframe.3es_and_.3ciframe.3es 14:41:49 AS: bullet 3 after "therefore" - what do we mean by "refresh the state" 14:41:52 DB: not sure 14:42:26 AS: most of this is not particular to WAI-ARIA - would like to take it out and only talk about the things that are related to WAI-ARIA 14:42:38 AS: but that might not make sense without all of the other text 14:42:53 DB: might be more appropriate in HTML mapping spec 14:43:03 DB: would be okay with taking it out 14:43:58 DB: would be good if we could capture in a short statement 14:44:13 DB: mashup situation - add iframe that's going to have a lot of updating like a clock 14:44:49 DB: wanted mashup author to be able to add WAI-ARIA attributes on the frame that would override settings on the frame source 14:45:15 DB: clock with aria-live="assertive" - person writing the iframe wanted it to be "polite", that would win 14:45:25 DB: Think that is what this section is trying to describe 14:45:49 DB: capture the idea that the main document author should have priority 14:46:02 DB: not a bunch of RFC statements 14:47:31 DB: okay with leaving it out of this version of the UAIG 14:48:46 bug 11811: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11811 14:54:51 action: David to try to understand 6.1 offline and make a recommendation 14:58:38 -[Mozilla] 14:58:39 -Andi_Snow_Weaver 14:58:39 WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM has ended 14:58:41 Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, David_Bolter 14:58:41 MichaelC has joined #aapi 15:14:03 zakim, bye 15:14:03 Zakim has left #aapi 15:14:13 rrsagent make minutes 15:14:31 s/rrsagent make minutes// 15:15:53 rrsagent, make minutes 15:15:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-minutes.html Andi 15:16:20 s/hi andi// 15:16:31 s/hi David// 15:16:41 s/I hope you can come to the meeting today// 15:16:48 rrsagent, make minutes 15:16:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-minutes.html Andi 16:00:24 rrsagent, bye 16:00:24 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-actions.rdf : 16:00:24 ACTION: Cynthia to look at DOM Level 2 to see if there is a definition we can re-purpose [1] 16:00:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc#T14-20-39 16:00:24 ACTION: David to weigh in on the thread about using focus events instead of activation events [2] 16:00:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc#T14-24-34 16:00:24 ACTION: David to try to understand 6.1 offline and make a recommendation [3] 16:00:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc#T14-54-51 16:00:27 Andi has left #aapi