IRC log of aapi on 2011-04-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:07 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #aapi

14:01:07 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc

14:01:14 [Andi]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:01:21 [Andi]

rrsagent, make log world

14:01:33 [Andi]

Scribe: Andi

14:01:42 [Andi]

Meeting: AAPI

14:02:45 [davidb]

davidb has joined #aapi

14:03:05 [davidb]

hi andi

14:04:15 [Andi]

hi David

14:04:24 [Andi]

I hope you can come to the meeting today

14:04:34 [Andi]

rrsagent, off

14:07:48 [davidb]

Zakim, Mozilla has David_Bolter

14:07:48 [Zakim]

+David_Bolter; got it

14:07:53 [Andi]

topic: aria-activedescendant

14:08:23 [Andi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_at

14:11:50 [Andi]

Andi reads changed text for section 4.3

14:12:26 [Andi]

AS: suggestion that we need a definition for "activation event"

14:12:33 [Andi]

DB: not really sure what that is

14:12:41 [Andi]

AS: in most cases, it would be "click"

14:13:07 [Andi]

DB: why would you not fire a click for a gridcell but you would fire it for a listitem?

14:14:12 [Andi]

http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-pf-minutes.html

14:16:59 [davidb]

[discussion about why would you need to fire an activation event for anything, if this is just about focus]

14:17:04 [Andi]

CS: controversy is about changing the DOM when something outside the browser happens

14:17:35 [Andi]

CS: need to talk to Larry

14:18:00 [Andi]

DB: will read the thread and see if can contribute something

14:18:58 [Andi]

CS: remove "real" from "real DOM focus"

14:19:17 [Andi]

AS: what about definition of "activation event"

14:19:26 [Andi]

CS: is there something we can use in DOM Level 2

14:19:36 [Andi]

CS: DOM Level 3 it was changed to "click"

14:19:51 [Andi]

DB: need to understand if this is a desktop focus event or DOM event

14:19:55 [Andi]

CS: think it's obht

14:20:01 [Andi]

s/obht/both/

14:20:39 [Andi]

action: Cynthia to look at DOM Level 2 to see if there is a definition we can re-purpose

14:20:55 [Andi]

DB: don't think we need to talk about firing an activation event on Windows and Linux

14:21:14 [Andi]

CS: thinking about doDefaultAction call from AT

14:23:36 [Andi]

DB: looking at the Firefox code, don't cause any activation events

14:23:46 [Andi]

DB: fire focus events

14:24:34 [Andi]

action: David to weigh in on the thread about using focus events instead of activation events

14:25:19 [Andi]

topic: bugs

14:25:20 [Andi]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=ARIA&component=Platform+APIs

14:26:26 [Andi]

bug 9656: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9656

14:27:02 [Andi]

DB: rule of thumb is always to try to tell screen readers what is on the screen

14:27:19 [Andi]

DB: might not go with the majority

14:27:35 [Andi]

DB: if node has role="presentation" - purely visual, no semantics

14:28:01 [Andi]

DB: putting on something that obviously has semantics, points to a problem with the spec, best practices or an author error

14:28:18 [Andi]

DB: might have come from Steve

14:29:28 [Andi]

AS: have to make sure that rules for role="presentation" cause the right thing to happen in this case

14:30:45 [Andi]

CS: labeling relationships always win in IE

14:30:57 [Andi]

CS: agree it's an author error

14:31:12 [Andi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#presentation

14:33:26 [Andi]

DB: would be a special case for FF if we put the text in the tree

14:33:48 [Andi]

DB: special cases for FF seem to be inverse to the special cases for IE

14:35:23 [Andi]

Topic: errors in frames and iframe handling text

14:35:24 [Andi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_frames

14:40:13 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

14:40:46 [davidb]

here is the original: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/ARIA_to_API_mapping#11.3.15_Documents.2c_Handling_.3cframe.3es_and_.3ciframe.3es

14:41:49 [Andi]

AS: bullet 3 after "therefore" - what do we mean by "refresh the state"

14:41:52 [Andi]

DB: not sure

14:42:26 [Andi]

AS: most of this is not particular to WAI-ARIA - would like to take it out and only talk about the things that are related to WAI-ARIA

14:42:38 [Andi]

AS: but that might not make sense without all of the other text

14:42:53 [Andi]

DB: might be more appropriate in HTML mapping spec

14:43:03 [Andi]

DB: would be okay with taking it out

14:43:58 [Andi]

DB: would be good if we could capture in a short statement

14:44:13 [Andi]

DB: mashup situation - add iframe that's going to have a lot of updating like a clock

14:44:49 [Andi]

DB: wanted mashup author to be able to add WAI-ARIA attributes on the frame that would override settings on the frame source

14:45:15 [Andi]

DB: clock with aria-live="assertive" - person writing the iframe wanted it to be "polite", that would win

14:45:25 [Andi]

DB: Think that is what this section is trying to describe

14:45:49 [Andi]

DB: capture the idea that the main document author should have priority

14:46:02 [Andi]

DB: not a bunch of RFC statements

14:47:31 [Andi]

DB: okay with leaving it out of this version of the UAIG

14:48:46 [Andi]

bug 11811: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11811

14:54:51 [Andi]

action: David to try to understand 6.1 offline and make a recommendation

14:58:38 [Zakim]

-[Mozilla]

14:58:39 [Zakim]

-Andi_Snow_Weaver

14:58:39 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM has ended

14:58:41 [Zakim]

Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, David_Bolter

14:58:41 [MichaelC]

MichaelC has joined #aapi

15:14:03 [Andi]

zakim, bye

15:14:03 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #aapi

15:14:13 [Andi]

rrsagent make minutes

15:14:31 [Andi]

s/rrsagent make minutes//

15:15:53 [Andi]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:15:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-minutes.html Andi

15:16:20 [Andi]

s/hi andi//

15:16:31 [Andi]

s/hi David//

15:16:41 [Andi]

s/I hope you can come to the meeting today//

15:16:48 [Andi]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:16:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-minutes.html Andi

16:00:24 [Andi]

rrsagent, bye

16:00:24 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-actions.rdf :

16:00:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Cynthia to look at DOM Level 2 to see if there is a definition we can re-purpose [1]

16:00:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc#T14-20-39

16:00:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: David to weigh in on the thread about using focus events instead of activation events [2]

16:00:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc#T14-24-34

16:00:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: David to try to understand 6.1 offline and make a recommendation [3]

16:00:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-aapi-irc#T14-54-51

16:00:27 [Andi]

Andi has left #aapi