15:40:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:40:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-irc
15:40:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:40:03 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:40:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:40:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
15:40:06 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:40:06 <trackbot> Date: 12 April 2011
15:45:37 <ivan> ok
15:45:39 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Apr/0009.html
15:45:52 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:45:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:45:53 <ivan> And I have already scribed today at another meeting...
15:46:01 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:46:27 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Boris
15:46:32 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Richard
15:46:40 <alexdeleon> alexdeleon has joined #RDB2RDF
15:46:59 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Marcelo
15:47:20 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:47:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:47:31 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:48:38 <mhausenblas> ericP?
15:48:57 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
15:51:55 <mhausenblas> juansequeda, in case ericP can't scribe, would you be able to?
15:52:24 <juansequeda> I was expecting you to ask me that :)
15:52:33 <juansequeda> I guess I haven't scribed in a while
15:53:40 <mhausenblas> scribenick: juansequeda 
15:54:18 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:54:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:54:21 <juansequeda> ok
15:55:10 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Ashok
15:56:32 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
15:56:52 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:56:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:57:26 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:57:34 <Zakim> + +49.112.8.aaaa
15:57:53 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
15:58:15 <Zakim> +juansequeda
15:58:51 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is alexdeleon 
15:58:51 <Zakim> +alexdeleon; got it
15:58:58 <mhausenblas> Zakim, mute alexdeleon 
15:58:58 <Zakim> alexdeleon should now be muted
15:59:00 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:59:00 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:59:02 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:59:08 <mhausenblas> Zakim, unmute alexdeleon 
15:59:08 <Zakim> alexdeleon should no longer be muted
15:59:13 <mhausenblas> Zakim, mute me
15:59:13 <Zakim> mhausenblas should now be muted
15:59:20 <mhausenblas> Zakim, unmute me
15:59:20 <Zakim> mhausenblas should no longer be muted
15:59:38 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
15:59:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexdeleon, mhausenblas, juansequeda, Ivan
15:59:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see juansequeda, alexdeleon, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, ivan, MacTed, iv_an_ru_, betehess, LeeF, trackbot, ericP
16:00:12 <Zakim> +dmcneil
16:00:14 <mhausenblas> Zakim, mute alexdeleon
16:00:14 <Zakim> alexdeleon should now be muted
16:00:39 <dmcneil> dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
16:00:53 <soeren> soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
16:00:54 <ivan> do you still have the problem?
16:01:02 <mhausenblas> no
16:01:35 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:01:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexdeleon (muted), mhausenblas, juansequeda, Ivan, dmcneil
16:01:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see soeren, dmcneil, juansequeda, alexdeleon, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, ivan, MacTed, iv_an_ru_, betehess, LeeF, trackbot, ericP
16:01:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:52 <mhausenblas> Zakim, unmute alexdeleon 
16:01:52 <Zakim> alexdeleon should no longer be muted
16:02:05 <soeren> zakim, +[IPcaller] is soeren
16:02:05 <Zakim> sorry, soeren, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:02:05 <mhausenblas> Zakim, IPcaller is soeren 
16:02:06 <Zakim> +soeren; got it
16:02:09 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
16:02:15 <mhausenblas> Zakim, nunolopes is with me
16:02:15 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:02:34 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/03/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:02:40 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:02:43 <juansequeda> +1
16:02:46 <Zakim> +Souri_
16:04:14 <juansequeda> RESOLUTION: the minutes from last meeting have been accepted
16:04:16 <Souri> zakim, who is making noise?
16:04:26 <Zakim> Souri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 7 (29%), juansequeda (9%), Ivan (39%)
16:04:30 <mhausenblas> Topic: Towards REC
16:04:39 <privera> privera has joined #RDB2RDF
16:04:48 <Zakim> +??P2
16:04:50 <Souri> 007 => James Bond
16:05:08 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P2 is privera 
16:05:08 <Zakim> +privera; got it
16:05:14 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:05:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexdeleon, mhausenblas, juansequeda, Ivan, dmcneil, soeren, Souri_, privera
16:05:20 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes
16:05:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see privera, Souri, nunolopes, soeren, dmcneil, juansequeda, alexdeleon, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, ivan, MacTed, iv_an_ru_, betehess, LeeF, trackbot, ericP
16:05:24 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:05:31 <privera> Zakim, mute me
16:05:31 <Zakim> privera should now be muted
16:05:59 <Zakim> +Seema
16:06:28 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr
16:06:29 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: Ivan will describe what the next steps are for formal requirements
16:06:38 <juansequeda> ... based on http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr
16:06:45 <juansequeda> ... which captures all the W3C process
16:07:04 <juansequeda> ivan: we have had several drafts which is fine
16:07:12 <juansequeda> ... and it is up to us to decide how many of those to publish
16:07:22 <juansequeda> ... we have to come to a Last Call Working Draft
16:07:34 <juansequeda> ... and this means that the WG thinks that it has solved all the technical issues
16:07:40 <mhausenblas> Michael: LC see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr#last-call
16:07:52 <juansequeda> ... there shouldn't be any open issues
16:07:58 <juansequeda> ... and we should get their soon
16:08:15 <juansequeda> ... the Last Call Working Draft should lead to comments from the community
16:08:28 <juansequeda> ... and if we are lucky, we won't get any comments
16:08:42 <juansequeda> ... if we do get comments, then we have to reissue a new Last Call Working Draft
16:09:00 <juansequeda> ... if we are lucky/we did a good job, the community should be happy with the Last Call Working Draft
16:09:24 <juansequeda> ... we have to tell the community that they have 6 weeks.. 2 months to give comments back
16:09:37 <juansequeda> ... and we need to document how we address the community comments
16:10:12 <juansequeda> ... after the Last Call Working Draft comes the Candidate Recommendation
16:10:21 <juansequeda> ... this is to prove that the technology can be implemented
16:10:21 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
16:10:21 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
16:10:22 <mhausenblas> Zakim, mute juansequeda 
16:10:23 <Zakim> juansequeda should now be muted
16:10:23 <Zakim> +EricP
16:10:32 <juansequeda> ... during this phase, we call for implementations
16:10:41 <juansequeda> ... we expect 2 mutually independent implementations
16:11:06 <juansequeda> ... we need to produce a load of test cases
16:11:09 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:11:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexdeleon, mhausenblas, juansequeda (muted), Ivan, dmcneil, soeren, Souri_, privera (muted), Seema, EricP
16:11:11 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes
16:11:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see Seema, privera, Souri, nunolopes, soeren, dmcneil, juansequeda, alexdeleon, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, ivan, MacTed, iv_an_ru_, betehess, LeeF, trackbot, ericP
16:11:16 <juansequeda> ... we hope to have several implementations
16:11:18 <mhausenblas> q?
16:11:32 <juansequeda> ... we need a way to document. implementation x has features a,b,c 
16:12:08 <juansequeda> ... revelytix has an implementation of R2RML, alex/eric has a direct mapping, juan has a direct mapping
16:12:14 <juansequeda> ... we need another R2RML implementation
16:12:27 <juansequeda> ... the candidate recommendation phase can show two options
16:12:38 <juansequeda> ... 1) one of the features is almost impossible to implement
16:12:52 <juansequeda> ... and if this is the case, then we have to go back to Working Draft
16:13:02 <juansequeda> ... 2) we did a good a job and no problems should arise
16:13:13 <mhausenblas> q+ to note on handling issues/formal objection
16:13:19 <juansequeda> ... after Candidate Recommendation, we go to Proposed Recommendation
16:13:36 <juansequeda> ... and the the AC members of the W3C will vote on this document in order for it to become a recommendation
16:13:46 <juansequeda> ... and that is the process
16:14:18 <mhausenblas> q?
16:14:20 <juansequeda> ... There is a lot of admin stuff that needs to be done (documenting what we did, how we addressed the community comments, etc)
16:15:39 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: we need to document all the comments even if they are contradict eachother 
16:15:46 <juansequeda> ... what happens if there is a formal objection?
16:16:02 <mhausenblas> ack me
16:16:02 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to note on handling issues/formal objection
16:16:15 <juansequeda> ivan: we need to avoid formal objections
16:16:28 <juansequeda> ... and we need to find a consensus
16:16:44 <juansequeda> ... and that is why it takes so long to come up with a standard
16:17:02 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:17:14 <juansequeda> ... there are cases where we don't come to a consensus on a formal objection 
16:17:16 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:17:16 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:17:50 <juansequeda> ... and if so, it goes up to the director (timbl), and it is his decision 
16:17:58 <juansequeda> ... however, we have never had a case like this
16:18:21 <juansequeda> ericP
16:18:21 <juansequeda> ;
16:18:41 <juansequeda> ericP: we need to show which issues came from outside
16:19:57 <juansequeda> ivan: ... (talking about how rdfa and owl WG have organized themselves in order to address community comments)
16:20:35 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: souri, are you guys planning to implement this?
16:20:51 <ivan> q+
16:21:01 <juansequeda> souri: we are planning to implement R2RML and this will coincide with a new release of oracle
16:21:31 <juansequeda> ivan: in the candidate recommendation phase, the implementation should be product quality
16:21:41 <juansequeda> souri:... beta release is a limited release
16:21:52 <juansequeda> ivan: this is fine for a candidate recommendation phase
16:22:06 <mhausenblas> q?
16:22:14 <juansequeda> ... if you state that you have implemented x amount of features, that is fine
16:22:44 <ericP> q+
16:22:46 <juansequeda> souri: we already had an implementation of the direct mapping, even before the spec came out
16:23:01 <mhausenblas> ack ivan 
16:23:03 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
16:23:22 <juansequeda> ericP: does your direct mapping produce an RDF graph or can you only query it with SPARQL
16:23:36 <juansequeda> souri: you can query it with SPARQL
16:23:47 <Zakim> +Alexandre
16:24:02 <juansequeda> ... we get a SPARQL query and translate to a SQL query
16:24:10 <juansequeda> ericP: can you then do ASK?
16:24:14 <juansequeda> souri: yes
16:25:21 <juansequeda> ivan: in the OWL group, Oracle appears in the candidate recommendation phase, and this was before the official release of oracle
16:25:35 <juansequeda> souri: yes, this was implemented before 
16:25:58 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: we need to organize the timeframe now
16:26:22 <ivan> zakim, drop me
16:26:22 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
16:26:22 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:26:31 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:26:31 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:26:33 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:26:58 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: same question to Openlink
16:27:04 <juansequeda> MacTed: I have no information on dates
16:27:14 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: could you figure it out?
16:27:17 <juansequeda> MacTed: ok
16:27:33 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: david, any critical dates?
16:28:01 <juansequeda> dmcneil: we do not have plans to make a direct mapping implementation
16:29:06 <juansequeda> soeren: working on something. but we don't have concrete dates. 
16:29:11 <juansequeda> q+
16:29:20 <juansequeda> zakim, unmute me
16:29:20 <Zakim> juansequeda should no longer be muted
16:29:28 <mhausenblas> ack juansequeda 
16:29:56 <juansequeda> juansequeda: we will have an implementation of direct mapping ready for June
16:30:04 <betehess> q+
16:30:11 <mhausenblas> ack betehess 
16:30:29 <juansequeda> betehess: eric/alex will be presenting at K-CAP
16:30:50 <betehess> http://kcap11.stanford.edu/
16:33:13 <juansequeda> juansequeda: marcelo will be giving a tutorial at SIGMOD/PODS and juan will be at the semantic web summer school talking about rdb2rdf
16:33:23 <betehess> would be good to have something close to LC (at least very stable) because of all the conferences
16:33:31 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: we need more exposure in the industry side
16:33:47 <ericP> q+
16:33:52 <betehess> q+
16:34:07 <betehess> q+ to speak about exposure in industry
16:34:15 <mhausenblas> Zakim, mute juansequeda 
16:34:15 <Zakim> juansequeda should now be muted
16:34:29 <juansequeda> souri: we will be doing something at Oracle Open World
16:34:51 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
16:35:07 <juansequeda> ericP: i was at Enterprise Data world and I talked about it on a panel that I was at
16:35:23 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/RDB2RDF_Publicity
16:35:24 <iv_an_ru_> iv_an_ru_ has joined #rdb2rdf
16:35:56 <mhausenblas> ack betehess 
16:35:56 <Zakim> betehess, you wanted to speak about exposure in industry
16:35:57 <mhausenblas> q?
16:36:29 <ivan> q+
16:37:06 <mhausenblas> ack ivan 
16:37:31 <juansequeda> ivan: to make clear, for the candidate recommendation phase, there is no requirement, that the implementation has to come from the working group
16:37:47 <ericP> q+ to say "in fact, it's even better if the impls come from outside"
16:37:57 <juansequeda> ... if there is any organization outside.. even better
16:38:04 <ericP> q-
16:38:21 <mhausenblas> q?
16:38:42 <betehess> q+
16:39:29 <mhausenblas> ack betehess 
16:39:47 <juansequeda> betehess: what are the concrete next steps in order to get to the Last Call 
16:39:57 <juansequeda> ivan: we still have open issues. these need to be closed
16:40:05 <mhausenblas> Topic: Test Harness
16:40:22 <ivan> zakim, mute me
16:40:22 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
16:40:24 <alexdeleon> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/TestHarness
16:40:24 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/TestHarness
16:40:45 <juansequeda> alexdeleon: here we have 3 proposals, which I think the third one is the most adequate
16:41:06 <juansequeda> ... we need to publish the test cases in a machine consumable way
16:41:25 <juansequeda> .. each test has its own URI which is resolvable 
16:41:30 <mhausenblas> q+ on manifest
16:41:59 <juansequeda> ... maybe optional report run time 
16:42:19 <juansequeda> ... these are for materialized RDF
16:42:19 <mhausenblas> Michael: the test cases manifest is in fact http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/ - in RDFa ;)
16:42:25 <betehess> q+ to ask if we should introduce a dependency from the Test Harness to both Direct Mapping and R2RML? (/me would say yes)
16:42:34 <juansequeda> ... for SPARQL to SQL implementations, the testing is a bit more complicated
16:43:05 <mhausenblas> q?
16:43:19 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/extract?uri=http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/
16:43:35 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: the current test-cases are in RDFa
16:44:37 <juansequeda> sorry.. I'm a bit lost on scribing. 
16:44:38 <alexdeleon> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/
16:44:53 <juansequeda> mhausenblas and alexdeleon talking about machine consumable test cases
16:45:40 <juansequeda> alexdeleon: for posting the results of the test?
16:46:55 <mhausenblas> http://sparql.org/sparql.html
16:47:37 <mhausenblas> q?
16:47:44 <mhausenblas> ack me
16:47:44 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to comment on manifest
16:48:44 <betehess> +1
16:48:53 <juansequeda> ericP: we need to test for exact graph match. 
16:49:03 <juansequeda> ... we can make a CONSTRUCT query
16:49:13 <juansequeda> ... and this will give you a sparql report which is the full RDF graph
16:49:24 <juansequeda> ... and then you can compare two graphs
16:49:31 <betehess> actually, exact graph match as graph isomorphism
16:50:31 <juansequeda> zakim, unmute me
16:50:31 <Zakim> juansequeda should no longer be muted
16:51:01 <mhausenblas> q?
16:51:17 <juansequeda> ericP: we are dealing with small graphs
16:51:17 <mhausenblas> ack betehess 
16:51:17 <Zakim> betehess, you wanted to ask if we should introduce a dependency from the Test Harness to both Direct Mapping and R2RML? (/me would say yes)
16:51:55 <juansequeda> betehess: should both direct mapping and R2RML document reference the Test Harness
16:52:12 <juansequeda> ... we should publish three documents at once
16:52:18 <juansequeda> ... and reference the Test Harness
16:52:36 <mhausenblas> Michael: not the Test Harness, but the Test Cases http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/
16:53:14 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2
16:53:30 <ivan> the OWL WG just had a test cases on a separate wiki site, actually...
16:53:30 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README.html
16:54:08 <juansequeda> betehess: we don't really care about versioning for the test suite
16:54:27 <betehess> s/test suite/test suite?/
16:54:43 <juansequeda> ericP: things were volatile for a while, and then we froze it 
16:55:16 <juansequeda> mhausenblas: anything else on this topic
16:55:52 <ivan> bye guys
16:55:58 <ivan> zakim, drop me
16:55:58 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
16:55:59 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:56:26 <Zakim> -dmcneil
16:56:27 <Zakim> -Souri_
16:56:27 <Zakim> -Alexandre
16:56:29 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:56:30 <Zakim> -Seema
16:56:33 <privera> Zakim, drop me
16:56:33 <Zakim> privera is being disconnected
16:56:34 <mhausenblas> [meeting adjourned]
16:56:34 <Zakim> -privera
16:56:37 <Zakim> -juansequeda
16:56:38 <Zakim> -soeren
16:56:38 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
16:56:39 <Zakim> -alexdeleon
16:56:39 <Zakim> -EricP
16:56:41 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
16:56:43 <Zakim> Attendees were +49.112.8.aaaa, mhausenblas, juansequeda, alexdeleon, Ivan, dmcneil, soeren, nunolopes, Souri_, privera, Seema, EricP, MacTed, Alexandre
16:57:05 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:57:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:57:07 <privera> privera has left #RDB2RDF
17:01:36 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
17:01:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:01:36 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:01:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot
17:01:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:01:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items