13:57:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcg
13:57:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/08-hcg-irc
13:57:29 <burn> burn has joined #hcg
13:57:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:57:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcg
13:57:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
13:57:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_CG()10:00AM already started
13:57:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:57:34 <trackbot> Date: 08 April 2011
13:57:37 <kaz> zakim, code?
13:57:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), kaz
13:57:43 <burn> zakim, I am Dan_Burnett
13:57:43 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate you with Dan_Burnett
13:57:49 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #hcg
13:58:04 <ChrisL> trackbot, start telcon
13:58:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:58:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
13:58:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_CG()10:00AM already started
13:58:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:58:09 <trackbot> Date: 08 April 2011
13:58:16 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
13:58:40 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
13:58:43 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
13:58:44 <Zakim> +Dan_Burnett
13:58:47 <Zakim> +??P11
13:58:56 <kaz> zakim, ??P11 is me
13:58:56 <Zakim> +kaz; got it
13:59:09 <ddahl> zakim, who is here?
13:59:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, Debbie_Dahl, kaz
13:59:34 <Zakim> +ChrisL
14:00:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:01:05 <kaz> zakim, IPcaller is probably yosuke
14:01:05 <Zakim> +yosuke?; got it
14:03:22 <paulc> paulc has joined #hcg
14:04:01 <ChrisL> hi Paul
14:04:27 <Bert> Bert has joined #hcg
14:04:28 <janina> janina has joined #hcg
14:04:31 <paulc> Good morning - getting settled in an airport lounge office - will call in shortly
14:04:37 <janina> zakim, code?
14:04:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), janina
14:04:39 <giuseppep> giuseppep has joined #hcg
14:04:49 <Zakim> +Bert
14:05:09 <Zakim> +??P15
14:05:17 <janina> zakim, ??P15 is janina
14:05:17 <Zakim> +janina; got it
14:06:19 <ChrisL> Chair: ChrisL
14:06:43 <Zakim> + +46.1.34.79.aaaa
14:06:57 <kaz> zakim, aaaa is Giuseppe_Pascale
14:06:57 <Zakim> +Giuseppe_Pascale; got it
14:07:00 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:07:09 <ChrisL> zakim, pick a victim
14:07:09 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose janina
14:07:11 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
14:07:11 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
14:07:31 <kaz> zakim, yosuke? is Yosuke
14:07:31 <Zakim> +Yosuke; got it
14:07:40 <janina> scribe: janina
14:07:53 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
14:08:43 <kaz> giuseppe from opera
14:09:13 <ChrisL> Topic: Introductions
14:09:25 <janina> giuseppe, introduces himself
14:09:43 <kaz> yosuke, introduces himself
14:09:51 <janina> I'm not catching the names ...
14:10:58 <ChrisL> List of Coordination Group members http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=34315
14:11:01 <janina> Web TV intros continueDoug also introduces himself in this capacity
14:11:06 <ChrisL> you can upload a photo, too
14:11:59 <kaz> s/Web TV intros continueDoug/Dan/
14:12:13 <kaz> s/Dan/Dan Burnett/
14:12:32 <ChrisL> Topic: wiki
14:12:35 <janina> topic: hcg wiki
14:12:50 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/wiki/Main_Page
14:12:51 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
14:13:13 <janina> chris, plan is to use the hcg wiki for upcoming agendas
14:13:24 <janina> chris, world readable, but member writable only
14:14:01 <janina> chris, the hope is that this will expedite our work
14:14:20 <ChrisL> s/member/coordination group member/
14:14:30 <janina> debby: suggests tracking additional admin details there, scribe list, etc
14:15:05 <janina> topic: registries
14:15:31 <janina> debby: believe i first raised the question, different positions approaches
14:16:13 <janina> debby: emotion subgroup of multimedia wants to code
14:16:28 <janina> debby: decided not useful to put the coding in the spec
14:16:44 <janina> debby: rather wanted to point to a registry instead
14:17:00 <janina> debby: so issued a emotion vocabulary note
14:17:09 <janina> debby: should publish today
14:17:28 <janina> debby: regected iana because of lengthy pub time
14:18:07 <janina> doug: notes we've been discussing registries for over two years
14:18:28 <janina> chris: don't believe we have a consensus position nevertheless
14:19:31 <Bert> q+ to clarify the essential point is not registries, but bottlenecks.
14:19:36 <kaz> s/regected/rejected/
14:20:36 <kaz> dan burnett
14:20:38 <paulc> q+
14:20:39 <ChrisL> ack bert
14:20:39 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to clarify the essential point is not registries, but bottlenecks.
14:20:49 <shepazu> q+
14:20:51 <janina> dan: likes iana because of maintanace process; 
14:21:24 <paulc> HTML WG issue on registry: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
14:21:27 <Bert> Bert
14:21:32 <kaz> bert bos
14:21:52 <janina> bert: concerned over single point of registry
14:22:04 <Bert> s/registry/failure/
14:22:09 <paulc> WG decision published today: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0204.html
14:22:45 <ChrisL> q?
14:22:55 <janina> dan: prefers to limit this kind of work to an organization that has demonstrated it knows how to manage it
14:22:59 <ChrisL> ack paul
14:24:06 <janina> paul: issue-27 in html-wg relates to this issue, decided today and refutes whether iana has a good procedure
14:24:25 <janina> paul: html rejected both
14:25:25 <janina> paul: describing html decisioning process: starts with bugs, then elevated to issues, proposals and counter-proposals, surveys wg, and chairs attempt to identify the wg decision by looking for weakest objectionable position
14:25:51 <janina> doug: i expect to appeal this decision
14:25:57 <janina> paul: it's called a formal objection
14:26:08 <janina> chris: an interesting document
14:26:54 <ChrisL> but as its 11 minutes old i hadn't read it before
14:27:09 <janina> paul: please note the bottom of our decision messages where we point to the process for reopening for reconsideration
14:27:39 <janina> paul: reads from the template
14:27:50 <janina> s/template/decision/
14:28:24 <ChrisL> ok so the issue can be re-opened with new evidence, or just blocked by a formal objection
14:29:03 <shepazu> [[ http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#WGChairReopen The Chair MAY reopen a decision when presented with new information, including:
14:29:04 <shepazu>     additional technical information,
14:29:04 <shepazu>     comments by email from participants who were unable to attend a scheduled meeting,
14:29:04 <shepazu>     comments by email from meeting attendees who chose not to speak out during a meeting (e.g., so they could confer later with colleagues or for cultural reasons).
14:29:04 <shepazu> ]]
14:29:05 <janina> paul: noting html wg trying to get to last call where a long process is expected
14:29:09 <shepazu> I stand corrected
14:29:27 <janina> paul: html chairs don't expect to work on objections until candidate cr status
14:29:35 <ChrisL> q?
14:29:39 <ChrisL> ack shepazu
14:30:37 <janina> doug: recognizes w3 has little experience, but also has heard of poor experience in iana
14:30:50 <janina> doug: surprised to hear some like iana
14:30:56 <paulc> q+
14:31:02 <janina> doug: calls out microformats specifically
14:31:03 <burn> q+
14:31:16 <ChrisL> ack paul
14:32:05 <janina> paul: suggests the evidence described here wasn't in the html survey, thus not considered
14:32:54 <janina> doug: understand this an html wg decision about a particular, single registry
14:33:01 <janina> paul: yes
14:34:01 <janina> doug: perhaps my new information would rather concern a different registry at w3c
14:34:11 <janina> paul: reads again from the decision
14:34:36 <ChrisL> q?
14:35:10 <ChrisL> ack burn
14:35:27 <janina> dan: notes this is one w3 decision from one w3 group
14:35:59 <janina> dan: only reason voice browser decision to go with iana hasn't moved further is that I have yet to do the work on it
14:36:34 <janina> dan: believes there are still strong disagreements on how to proceed aong wgs
14:36:35 <shepazu> +
14:36:37 <shepazu> q+
14:36:56 <janina> debby: wonders if we even could have a unified process because of the need to also work with other organizations
14:37:36 <janina> dan: may well be possible for w3 to smooth the process for its specs at another organization
14:38:12 <janina> dan: ietf and iana continue discussion on smoothing process between them
14:38:54 <ChrisL> q?
14:38:55 <janina> dan: this could happen even if w3c doesn't standardize
14:39:00 <janina> doug: agrees
14:39:03 <ChrisL> ack shepazu
14:39:31 <janina> doug: however, suggests any org is a single point of failure locus
14:39:51 <janina> doug: rather we should look at shared registry with different ways to get into the registry
14:39:55 <ddahl> maybe the w3c should maintain a registry of registries
14:40:55 <janina> doug: we've previously discussed a registry process which isn't specifically located at any particular organization
14:41:18 <janina> doug: suggests we hold a conversation like that with the other organizations
14:41:42 <janina> doug: then, once a particular registry is stable, the other orgs mirror 
14:41:55 <ChrisL> q+
14:42:20 <burn> q+
14:42:55 <janina> chris: there appears to be the need to indicate that a particularly registry has been requested and is in process
14:43:19 <janina> chris: perhaps that's two queues, or two views of the queue
14:43:22 <ChrisL> ack ChrisL
14:43:52 <ChrisL> ack burn
14:43:53 <janina> doug: agrees
14:44:10 <janina> dan: like the idea esp for fault tolerance
14:44:28 <janina> dan: concerned how this raises a synchronization problem
14:44:35 <shepazu> q+
14:44:43 <janina> dan: needs to be a normative and definitive point
14:44:54 <janina> dan: so, which registry to trust ultimately?
14:45:23 <yosuke> yosuke: Web and TV IG will not need any registry for now, but if we move on to the next step after the IG or during the IG, I mean, creating some standards related to TV, there is strong possibility that we need huge registry.
14:45:34 <ChrisL> q?
14:45:38 <ChrisL> ack shepazu
14:45:53 <janina> doug: correct, but we're not they
14:46:41 <janina> doug: suggest it's ok to let the market decide
14:48:15 <ddahl> it seems that a TV-related registy might involve working with a totally new organization, e.g. other than iana or Microformats
14:48:23 <kaz> s/yosuke: /[ yosuke: /
14:48:36 <kaz> s/huge registry./huge registry. ]/
14:49:11 <janina> doug: suggests w3 serve the communities that want to be served by w3, and others go to the other orgs they want
14:49:24 <kaz> q?
14:49:30 <janina> dan: understand, not sure it will work, but willing to consider
14:50:10 <burn> q+
14:50:15 <ChrisL> janina: we can easily mirror while saying which is authoritative, like in dns
14:50:30 <ChrisL> q?
14:50:34 <ChrisL> ack Bert
14:50:40 <ChrisL> ack burn
14:50:48 <janina> dan: likes that
14:51:40 <paulc> q+
14:51:46 <ChrisL> ack paulc
14:52:15 <janina> paul: has experience with a 'central' registry where some values are delegated to 'sub' registries
14:52:24 <janina> paul: odbc for instance
14:52:44 <janina> paul: supports additional fields that some wanted
14:52:59 <ChrisL> q+
14:53:36 <burn> q+
14:54:10 <yosuke> s/discuss it for me/for me to discuss it/
14:54:26 <janina> chris: noting unicode registry which supports a 'private' use area
14:54:47 <janina> chris: this works
14:55:03 <ChrisL> computer graphics metafile
14:55:10 <janina> chris: did not work
14:55:33 <janina> chris: if one used an unusual line style, for instance, has no fallback and shows error
14:56:02 <janina> chris: registering didn't get one anywhere
14:56:10 <janina> chris: this is why svg took a different approach
14:56:14 <ddahl> q+ to talk about next steps, should we continue discussion or follow up on some of the suggestions that have been proposed?
14:56:31 <ChrisL> ack ChrisL
14:56:35 <ChrisL> ack burn
14:57:00 <janina> dan: iana has done this -- top level domains registered at iana, but nothing else
14:57:08 <Zakim> -ChrisL
14:57:23 <janina> dan: believe setting up a w3c tree at iana was one proposal
14:57:29 <janina> doug: would like to know more on that
14:57:47 <Zakim> +ChrisL
14:58:04 <ChrisL> ack ddahl
14:58:04 <Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to talk about next steps, should we continue discussion or follow up on some of the suggestions that have been proposed?
14:58:21 <janina> doug: don't believe this solves single point of failure problem
14:58:39 <janina> debby: notes our time is waning, what next on this?
14:59:01 <janina> doug: happy to raise this in the team, esp in context of html decision
14:59:10 <janina> chris: suggests next time perhaps too soon
14:59:31 <janina> debby: next call will be may 6
15:00:52 <Zakim> -Giuseppe_Pascale
15:00:53 <Zakim> -kaz
15:00:54 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
15:00:54 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
15:00:55 <Zakim> -ChrisL
15:00:57 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
15:00:57 <janina> zakim, bye
15:00:59 <Zakim> Zakim has left #hcg
15:01:06 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/08-hcg-minutes.html janina
15:01:14 <yosuke> yosuke has left #hcg
15:01:21 <giuseppep> giuseppep has left #hcg
15:01:36 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
15:01:42 <janina> OK, will do
15:12:38 <ddahl> ddahl has left #hcg
15:13:23 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #hcg