IRC log of hcg on 2011-04-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:29 [RRSAgent]
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13:57:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/08-hcg-irc
13:57:29 [burn]
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13:57:31 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
13:57:31 [Zakim]
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13:57:33 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
13:57:33 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see HTML_CG()10:00AM already started
13:57:34 [trackbot]
Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:57:34 [trackbot]
Date: 08 April 2011
13:57:37 [kaz]
zakim, code?
13:57:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), kaz
13:57:43 [burn]
zakim, I am Dan_Burnett
13:57:43 [Zakim]
ok, burn, I now associate you with Dan_Burnett
13:57:49 [ChrisL]
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13:58:04 [ChrisL]
trackbot, start telcon
13:58:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
13:58:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
13:58:08 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see HTML_CG()10:00AM already started
13:58:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:58:09 [trackbot]
Date: 08 April 2011
13:58:16 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make logs public
13:58:40 [Zakim]
+Debbie_Dahl
13:58:43 [Zakim]
-Dan_Burnett
13:58:44 [Zakim]
+Dan_Burnett
13:58:47 [Zakim]
+??P11
13:58:56 [kaz]
zakim, ??P11 is me
13:58:56 [Zakim]
+kaz; got it
13:59:09 [ddahl]
zakim, who is here?
13:59:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, Debbie_Dahl, kaz
13:59:34 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
14:00:06 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:01:05 [kaz]
zakim, IPcaller is probably yosuke
14:01:05 [Zakim]
+yosuke?; got it
14:03:22 [paulc]
paulc has joined #hcg
14:04:01 [ChrisL]
hi Paul
14:04:27 [Bert]
Bert has joined #hcg
14:04:28 [janina]
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14:04:31 [paulc]
Good morning - getting settled in an airport lounge office - will call in shortly
14:04:37 [janina]
zakim, code?
14:04:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), janina
14:04:39 [giuseppep]
giuseppep has joined #hcg
14:04:49 [Zakim]
+Bert
14:05:09 [Zakim]
+??P15
14:05:17 [janina]
zakim, ??P15 is janina
14:05:17 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
14:06:19 [ChrisL]
Chair: ChrisL
14:06:43 [Zakim]
+ +46.1.34.79.aaaa
14:06:57 [kaz]
zakim, aaaa is Giuseppe_Pascale
14:06:57 [Zakim]
+Giuseppe_Pascale; got it
14:07:00 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
14:07:09 [ChrisL]
zakim, pick a victim
14:07:09 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose janina
14:07:11 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
14:07:11 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
14:07:31 [kaz]
zakim, yosuke? is Yosuke
14:07:31 [Zakim]
+Yosuke; got it
14:07:40 [janina]
scribe: janina
14:07:53 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
14:08:43 [kaz]
giuseppe from opera
14:09:13 [ChrisL]
Topic: Introductions
14:09:25 [janina]
giuseppe, introduces himself
14:09:43 [kaz]
yosuke, introduces himself
14:09:51 [janina]
I'm not catching the names ...
14:10:58 [ChrisL]
List of Coordination Group members http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=34315
14:11:01 [janina]
Web TV intros continueDoug also introduces himself in this capacity
14:11:06 [ChrisL]
you can upload a photo, too
14:11:59 [kaz]
s/Web TV intros continueDoug/Dan/
14:12:13 [kaz]
s/Dan/Dan Burnett/
14:12:32 [ChrisL]
Topic: wiki
14:12:35 [janina]
topic: hcg wiki
14:12:50 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/wiki/Main_Page
14:12:51 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
14:13:13 [janina]
chris, plan is to use the hcg wiki for upcoming agendas
14:13:24 [janina]
chris, world readable, but member writable only
14:14:01 [janina]
chris, the hope is that this will expedite our work
14:14:20 [ChrisL]
s/member/coordination group member/
14:14:30 [janina]
debby: suggests tracking additional admin details there, scribe list, etc
14:15:05 [janina]
topic: registries
14:15:31 [janina]
debby: believe i first raised the question, different positions approaches
14:16:13 [janina]
debby: emotion subgroup of multimedia wants to code
14:16:28 [janina]
debby: decided not useful to put the coding in the spec
14:16:44 [janina]
debby: rather wanted to point to a registry instead
14:17:00 [janina]
debby: so issued a emotion vocabulary note
14:17:09 [janina]
debby: should publish today
14:17:28 [janina]
debby: regected iana because of lengthy pub time
14:18:07 [janina]
doug: notes we've been discussing registries for over two years
14:18:28 [janina]
chris: don't believe we have a consensus position nevertheless
14:19:31 [Bert]
q+ to clarify the essential point is not registries, but bottlenecks.
14:19:36 [kaz]
s/regected/rejected/
14:20:36 [kaz]
dan burnett
14:20:38 [paulc]
q+
14:20:39 [ChrisL]
ack bert
14:20:39 [Zakim]
Bert, you wanted to clarify the essential point is not registries, but bottlenecks.
14:20:49 [shepazu]
q+
14:20:51 [janina]
dan: likes iana because of maintanace process;
14:21:24 [paulc]
HTML WG issue on registry: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
14:21:27 [Bert]
Bert
14:21:32 [kaz]
bert bos
14:21:52 [janina]
bert: concerned over single point of registry
14:22:04 [Bert]
s/registry/failure/
14:22:09 [paulc]
WG decision published today: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0204.html
14:22:45 [ChrisL]
q?
14:22:55 [janina]
dan: prefers to limit this kind of work to an organization that has demonstrated it knows how to manage it
14:22:59 [ChrisL]
ack paul
14:24:06 [janina]
paul: issue-27 in html-wg relates to this issue, decided today and refutes whether iana has a good procedure
14:24:25 [janina]
paul: html rejected both
14:25:25 [janina]
paul: describing html decisioning process: starts with bugs, then elevated to issues, proposals and counter-proposals, surveys wg, and chairs attempt to identify the wg decision by looking for weakest objectionable position
14:25:51 [janina]
doug: i expect to appeal this decision
14:25:57 [janina]
paul: it's called a formal objection
14:26:08 [janina]
chris: an interesting document
14:26:54 [ChrisL]
but as its 11 minutes old i hadn't read it before
14:27:09 [janina]
paul: please note the bottom of our decision messages where we point to the process for reopening for reconsideration
14:27:39 [janina]
paul: reads from the template
14:27:50 [janina]
s/template/decision/
14:28:24 [ChrisL]
ok so the issue can be re-opened with new evidence, or just blocked by a formal objection
14:29:03 [shepazu]
[[ http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#WGChairReopen The Chair MAY reopen a decision when presented with new information, including:
14:29:04 [shepazu]
additional technical information,
14:29:04 [shepazu]
comments by email from participants who were unable to attend a scheduled meeting,
14:29:04 [shepazu]
comments by email from meeting attendees who chose not to speak out during a meeting (e.g., so they could confer later with colleagues or for cultural reasons).
14:29:04 [shepazu]
]]
14:29:05 [janina]
paul: noting html wg trying to get to last call where a long process is expected
14:29:09 [shepazu]
I stand corrected
14:29:27 [janina]
paul: html chairs don't expect to work on objections until candidate cr status
14:29:35 [ChrisL]
q?
14:29:39 [ChrisL]
ack shepazu
14:30:37 [janina]
doug: recognizes w3 has little experience, but also has heard of poor experience in iana
14:30:50 [janina]
doug: surprised to hear some like iana
14:30:56 [paulc]
q+
14:31:02 [janina]
doug: calls out microformats specifically
14:31:03 [burn]
q+
14:31:16 [ChrisL]
ack paul
14:32:05 [janina]
paul: suggests the evidence described here wasn't in the html survey, thus not considered
14:32:54 [janina]
doug: understand this an html wg decision about a particular, single registry
14:33:01 [janina]
paul: yes
14:34:01 [janina]
doug: perhaps my new information would rather concern a different registry at w3c
14:34:11 [janina]
paul: reads again from the decision
14:34:36 [ChrisL]
q?
14:35:10 [ChrisL]
ack burn
14:35:27 [janina]
dan: notes this is one w3 decision from one w3 group
14:35:59 [janina]
dan: only reason voice browser decision to go with iana hasn't moved further is that I have yet to do the work on it
14:36:34 [janina]
dan: believes there are still strong disagreements on how to proceed aong wgs
14:36:35 [shepazu]
+
14:36:37 [shepazu]
q+
14:36:56 [janina]
debby: wonders if we even could have a unified process because of the need to also work with other organizations
14:37:36 [janina]
dan: may well be possible for w3 to smooth the process for its specs at another organization
14:38:12 [janina]
dan: ietf and iana continue discussion on smoothing process between them
14:38:54 [ChrisL]
q?
14:38:55 [janina]
dan: this could happen even if w3c doesn't standardize
14:39:00 [janina]
doug: agrees
14:39:03 [ChrisL]
ack shepazu
14:39:31 [janina]
doug: however, suggests any org is a single point of failure locus
14:39:51 [janina]
doug: rather we should look at shared registry with different ways to get into the registry
14:39:55 [ddahl]
maybe the w3c should maintain a registry of registries
14:40:55 [janina]
doug: we've previously discussed a registry process which isn't specifically located at any particular organization
14:41:18 [janina]
doug: suggests we hold a conversation like that with the other organizations
14:41:42 [janina]
doug: then, once a particular registry is stable, the other orgs mirror
14:41:55 [ChrisL]
q+
14:42:20 [burn]
q+
14:42:55 [janina]
chris: there appears to be the need to indicate that a particularly registry has been requested and is in process
14:43:19 [janina]
chris: perhaps that's two queues, or two views of the queue
14:43:22 [ChrisL]
ack ChrisL
14:43:52 [ChrisL]
ack burn
14:43:53 [janina]
doug: agrees
14:44:10 [janina]
dan: like the idea esp for fault tolerance
14:44:28 [janina]
dan: concerned how this raises a synchronization problem
14:44:35 [shepazu]
q+
14:44:43 [janina]
dan: needs to be a normative and definitive point
14:44:54 [janina]
dan: so, which registry to trust ultimately?
14:45:23 [yosuke]
yosuke: Web and TV IG will not need any registry for now, but if we move on to the next step after the IG or during the IG, I mean, creating some standards related to TV, there is strong possibility that we need huge registry.
14:45:34 [ChrisL]
q?
14:45:38 [ChrisL]
ack shepazu
14:45:53 [janina]
doug: correct, but we're not they
14:46:41 [janina]
doug: suggest it's ok to let the market decide
14:48:15 [ddahl]
it seems that a TV-related registy might involve working with a totally new organization, e.g. other than iana or Microformats
14:48:23 [kaz]
s/yosuke: /[ yosuke: /
14:48:36 [kaz]
s/huge registry./huge registry. ]/
14:49:11 [janina]
doug: suggests w3 serve the communities that want to be served by w3, and others go to the other orgs they want
14:49:24 [kaz]
q?
14:49:30 [janina]
dan: understand, not sure it will work, but willing to consider
14:50:10 [burn]
q+
14:50:15 [ChrisL]
janina: we can easily mirror while saying which is authoritative, like in dns
14:50:30 [ChrisL]
q?
14:50:34 [ChrisL]
ack Bert
14:50:40 [ChrisL]
ack burn
14:50:48 [janina]
dan: likes that
14:51:40 [paulc]
q+
14:51:46 [ChrisL]
ack paulc
14:52:15 [janina]
paul: has experience with a 'central' registry where some values are delegated to 'sub' registries
14:52:24 [janina]
paul: odbc for instance
14:52:44 [janina]
paul: supports additional fields that some wanted
14:52:59 [ChrisL]
q+
14:53:36 [burn]
q+
14:54:10 [yosuke]
s/discuss it for me/for me to discuss it/
14:54:26 [janina]
chris: noting unicode registry which supports a 'private' use area
14:54:47 [janina]
chris: this works
14:55:03 [ChrisL]
computer graphics metafile
14:55:10 [janina]
chris: did not work
14:55:33 [janina]
chris: if one used an unusual line style, for instance, has no fallback and shows error
14:56:02 [janina]
chris: registering didn't get one anywhere
14:56:10 [janina]
chris: this is why svg took a different approach
14:56:14 [ddahl]
q+ to talk about next steps, should we continue discussion or follow up on some of the suggestions that have been proposed?
14:56:31 [ChrisL]
ack ChrisL
14:56:35 [ChrisL]
ack burn
14:57:00 [janina]
dan: iana has done this -- top level domains registered at iana, but nothing else
14:57:08 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
14:57:23 [janina]
dan: believe setting up a w3c tree at iana was one proposal
14:57:29 [janina]
doug: would like to know more on that
14:57:47 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
14:58:04 [ChrisL]
ack ddahl
14:58:04 [Zakim]
ddahl, you wanted to talk about next steps, should we continue discussion or follow up on some of the suggestions that have been proposed?
14:58:21 [janina]
doug: don't believe this solves single point of failure problem
14:58:39 [janina]
debby: notes our time is waning, what next on this?
14:59:01 [janina]
doug: happy to raise this in the team, esp in context of html decision
14:59:10 [janina]
chris: suggests next time perhaps too soon
14:59:31 [janina]
debby: next call will be may 6
15:00:52 [Zakim]
-Giuseppe_Pascale
15:00:53 [Zakim]
-kaz
15:00:54 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
15:00:54 [Zakim]
-Dan_Burnett
15:00:55 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
15:00:57 [Zakim]
-Debbie_Dahl
15:00:57 [janina]
zakim, bye
15:00:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #hcg
15:01:06 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/08-hcg-minutes.html janina
15:01:14 [yosuke]
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15:01:36 [ChrisL]
zakim, list attendees
15:01:42 [janina]
OK, will do
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