21:54:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:54:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-html-a11y-irc
21:54:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:54:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:54:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
21:54:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
21:54:23 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:54:23 <trackbot> Date: 09 March 2011
21:54:39 <JF> agenda
21:58:02 <sean> sean has joined #html-a11y
21:59:13 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM has now started
21:59:19 <Zakim> + +1.650.468.aaaa
21:59:31 <JF> zakim, aaaa is JF
21:59:31 <Zakim> +JF; got it
22:00:08 <JF> zakim, agenda
22:00:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', JF
22:00:36 <Zakim> +Judy
22:01:20 <Zakim> + +44.154.558.aabb
22:01:52 <JF> agenda+	Identify Scribe
22:01:54 <JF> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
22:01:55 <JF> agenda+ Face to Face--Please Register http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/201103_ftf/
22:01:57 <JF> agenda+	Issue-152 Multitrack API http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0079.html
22:01:58 <JF> agenda+	Bug 5758: Insufficient Synchronization Support http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758
22:02:00 <JF> agenda+	Bug 8657: Allow Fallback Reloading http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8657
22:02:01 <JF> agenda+	Bug 10693 - Need a means for navigating between related timed 
22:02:03 <JF> agenda+tracks of media elements  Poster
22:02:04 <JF> agenda+	Other Business?
22:02:06 <JF> agenda+ be done
22:03:55 <Zakim> + +61.2.937.4.aacc
22:04:03 <silvia> zakim, aacc is me
22:04:03 <Zakim> +silvia; got it
22:04:39 <plh> plh has joined #html-a11y
22:04:51 <Zakim> +Plh
22:05:01 <JF> zakim, aabb is sean
22:05:01 <Zakim> +sean; got it
22:05:02 <Zakim> + +1.510.367.aadd
22:05:39 <silvia> zakim, aadd is eric
22:05:39 <Zakim> +eric; got it
22:05:50 <silvia> zakim, who is on the phone?
22:05:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see JF, Judy, sean, silvia, Plh, eric
22:06:08 <silvia> scribe: silvia
22:06:23 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
22:06:23 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from JF]
22:06:44 <silvia> zakim, next agendum
22:06:44 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, silvia
22:06:52 <silvia> scribe identified
22:07:02 <silvia> zakim, move to next agendum
22:07:02 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, silvia
22:07:12 <plh> zakim, close agendum 1
22:07:12 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:07:13 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:07:15 <Zakim> 2. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from JF]
22:07:16 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
22:07:16 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from JF]
22:07:52 <silvia> action-99?
22:07:52 <trackbot> ACTION-99 -- Janina Sajka to annotate 9452 with clear audio discovery and selection, as well as independent control of multiple playback tracks -- due 2011-01-19 -- OPEN
22:07:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/99
22:08:05 <silvia> Janina has been busy
22:08:18 <silvia> no other items
22:08:29 <silvia> zakim, close agendum
22:08:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close agendum', silvia
22:08:38 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 2
22:08:38 <Zakim> agendum 2, Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open, closed
22:08:40 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:08:41 <Zakim> 3. Face to Face--Please Register http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/201103_ftf/ [from JF]
22:09:53 <silvia> silvia, eric, sean, john will be there
22:10:04 <silvia> philip is in an unfortunate timezone
22:10:58 <silvia> Judy will sort out phone bridge
22:11:06 <silvia> mark watson from netflix is also interested
22:11:45 <silvia> proposal to have a re-cap on Sunday morning for those that cannot stay
22:12:41 <silvia> Judy is asking for a more detailed agenda
22:13:19 <silvia> give a brief overview to the larger working group should be in the general agenda
22:14:14 <silvia> JF suggest that upon breakout of media wg, we will dive into the multitrack api discussion
22:14:19 <silvia> probably most of saturday
22:14:23 <silvia> silvia proposed agenda:
22:14:24 <silvia> 1. Review of use cases
22:14:25 <silvia> 2. JS API for in-band and manifests
22:14:25 <silvia> 3. HTML markup for external tracks
22:14:25 <silvia> 4. CSS and rendering
22:15:01 <silvia> JF we can do recap on Sunday morning
22:15:21 <silvia> … and then depending on how far we get on Saturday continue on Sunday
22:15:31 <silvia> … also a couple of other bugs to deas with
22:15:40 <silvia> s/deas/deal/
22:16:06 <silvia> Judy: whatever we don't clear out by today, should we encourage volunteers to prepare for F2F?
22:16:29 <silvia> .. also prepare for Multitrack discussion.
22:16:45 <silvia> … so people can dial in at appropriate times.
22:17:25 <silvia> JF: recap on Sunday morning is easiest for externals to tune in
22:17:39 <silvia> Judy: trying to confirm phone support
22:18:08 <silvia> JF: will we have access to an irc channel?
22:18:13 <silvia> Judy: will make sure of that, too
22:19:05 <silvia> JF: is silvia's proposed agenda a good way to go about it?
22:19:28 <silvia> eric: I can't think of any other issues, but 2 and 3 might want to be changed around
22:20:26 <Zakim> -Plh
22:20:34 <Zakim> +Plh
22:21:29 <silvia> silvia: I had a reason for this order - the in-band JS API will be easier to solve and can direct the discussion in 3
22:22:06 <silvia> … obviously the JS API would be revised later with the markup
22:22:15 <silvia> eric: I can understand the sense in this order
22:22:31 <silvia> JF: do we need to prepare anything further before the meeting?
22:22:41 <silvia> eric: don't think there's anything to do in this meeting
22:22:57 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 3
22:22:57 <Zakim> agendum 3, Face to Face--Please Register http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/201103_ftf/, closed
22:22:59 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:23:00 <Zakim> 4. Issue-152 Multitrack API http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0079.html [from JF]
22:23:12 <silvia> JF: discussion on this will be at the F2F
22:23:22 <silvia> .. anything to prepare?
22:23:41 <silvia> Judy: can JF send through a summary of the agenda to Janina and me, please
22:23:48 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:25:02 <silvia> silvia: I will still want to add the CSS and rendering consequences of the 8 proposals to the wiki page
22:25:17 <silvia> … then that page has a good summary of our current discussions and be a good starting poitn
22:25:23 <silvia> s/poitn/point/
22:25:32 <silvia> JF: will be dealt with on list
22:25:58 <silvia> … wiki page will be important to be available at F2F, will include into agenda
22:26:08 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 4
22:26:08 <Zakim> agendum 4, Issue-152 Multitrack API http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0079.html, closed
22:26:10 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:26:12 <Zakim> 5. Bug 5758: Insufficient Synchronization Support http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758 [from JF]
22:26:29 <silvia> JF: this is an old bug
22:26:44 <silvia> … filed by Jim Jewett
22:27:13 <silvia> … the bug triage team looked at it
22:27:30 <silvia> … most issues are addressed, except for link to <track>
22:27:47 <silvia> … I think that multitrack is also relevant
22:28:50 <silvia> eric: indeed, multitrack is addressing this much more than <track>
22:29:15 <silvia> silvia: it's similar to issue-9 and is now covered by all the other bugs we have open
22:29:35 <silvia> … should be closed
22:29:45 <silvia> JF: will close and reference issue 152 with it
22:29:56 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 5
22:29:56 <Zakim> agendum 5, Bug 5758: Insufficient Synchronization Support http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758, closed
22:29:58 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:30:00 <Zakim> 6. Bug 8657: Allow Fallback Reloading http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8657 [from JF]
22:30:42 <silvia> JF: I talked with Gez about it and it was opened as a placeholder bug
22:30:51 <silvia> … not sure I fully understand this bug
22:31:45 <silvia> … probably related to issue-152 with what should happen when a secondary resource cannot be loaded
22:31:53 <silvia> plh: isn't it a UA issue?
22:32:05 <silvia> eric: yes, and different media frameworks deal with it differently
22:32:32 <silvia> JF: is this something that this group should be looking at or defer as UA issue?
22:32:45 <silvia> sean: seems the error handling should be nailed down
22:33:06 <silvia> … what happens if the track loading fails or manage to only partially load a track?
22:33:37 <silvia> JF: it seems to me that if the secondary track fails to load, the primary should still continue loading and play
22:33:44 <silvia> … as such it is an a11y issue
22:33:54 <silvia> eric: I think the error handling is specified
22:34:05 <silvia> … there are errors fired
22:34:22 <silvia> … right now an error is fired if the resource doesn't load completely
22:34:36 <silvia> sean: no, I think it's underspecified
22:35:04 <silvia> … not explained if you get the data, but the data is out of order
22:35:17 <silvia> JF: put it on agenda for F2F?
22:35:26 <silvia> eric: is this up to the format?
22:35:52 <silvia> sean: yes, so you might get less data if they are mangled
22:36:05 <silvia> … it's not covered explicitly in the spec, but only implied
22:36:14 <silvia> eric: is worth filing a bug to make it explicit
22:36:28 <silvia> silvia: I agree
22:36:46 <silvia> JF: so, what happens when it is  a second media file?
22:37:01 <silvia> eric: text is just another form of media
22:37:14 <silvia> JF: is there additional complexity with audio/video?
22:37:40 <silvia> silvia: probably part of issue-152
22:38:09 <silvia> eric: spec should clearly say what to do with errors - they need to fire events, so a Web author can deal with errors if they want
22:38:27 <silvia> … but we don't want to mandate exactly what the behaviour of the browser should be in the presence of malformed data
22:38:36 <silvia> … independent of whether it's primary or secondary resource
22:38:52 <silvia> JF: how to progress?
22:39:55 <silvia> silvia: either re-focus this bug to say that cues that come out of order should be dropped on the floor, or open a new bug
22:40:04 <silvia> sean: will open a new bug for this
22:40:16 <silvia> … but the multitrack media part of this bug is not addressed by this
22:40:20 <silvia> … so keep it for F2F
22:40:40 <sean> make it an action on me?
22:41:00 <silvia> ACTION: sean to file bug on dealing with cues that come out of order
22:41:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-109 - File bug on dealing with cues that come out of order [on Sean Hayes - due 2011-03-16].
22:41:21 <silvia> eric: I think we can close the bug
22:41:37 <silvia> sean: if we record that this will be pursued in issue-152, I think we can close it
22:41:41 <silvia> JF: will close this bug
22:41:56 <JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8659
22:41:56 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 5
22:41:56 <Zakim> agendum 5, Bug 5758: Insufficient Synchronization Support http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758, closed
22:41:58 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:41:59 <Zakim> 6. Bug 8657: Allow Fallback Reloading http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8657 [from JF]
22:42:24 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 6
22:42:24 <Zakim> agendum 6, Bug 8657: Allow Fallback Reloading http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8657, closed
22:42:26 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:42:28 <Zakim> 7. Bug 10693 - Need a means for navigating between related timed [from JF]
22:43:46 <silvia> JF discusses http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8659
22:45:26 <silvia> plh: not sure wether events would be useful
22:46:06 <silvia> eric: you can examine the list of tracks available
22:46:49 <silvia> sean: I think there are some issues with the eventing mechanisms
22:47:34 <silvia> silvia: it's unclear whether onload is fired when metadata is available or the full file
22:47:41 <silvia> … events are a bit underspecified
22:48:06 <silvia> eric: the main resource cannot reach metadataloaded without the external tracks being in ready state, too
22:48:21 <silvia> sean: Ian knows there is something missing and said he'd work on it
22:48:28 <silvia> … might be worth discussing as a separate agenda item
22:49:27 <silvia> JF: will add the bug to the list of things to discuss
22:49:39 <silvia> eric: let's have a proper agenda item with a link to sean's email
22:50:44 <silvia> plh: seems to me it is related to issue-152
22:51:18 <silvia> sean: yes, it's part of the JS api for multitrack
22:51:28 <silvia> JF: will make sure it's listed on the agenda
22:52:17 <silvia> eric: I think it makes sense to have this as a separate agenda item after the multitrack one
22:52:31 <silvia> JF: I'll add it to the agenda of silvia
22:52:33 <JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8736
22:54:03 <silvia> … is the reaction of Ian the right reaction?
22:54:07 <silvia> eric: yes, that's exactly right
22:54:16 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10693
22:54:54 <silvia> JF: this is now issue-163
22:55:01 <silvia> .. it's a post-last-call issue
22:55:12 <silvia> issue-163?
22:55:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-163 does not exist
22:55:37 <JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/163
22:55:44 <Zakim> -eric
22:55:50 <silvia> JF: is this something we should discuss in San Diego?
22:56:01 <silvia> silvia: maybe put it at the end of the list
22:56:10 <silvia> … in case we have time - otherwise keep it for the next F2F
22:56:10 <Zakim> +eric
22:56:44 <silvia> JF: ok, will add with an understanding that we want to get 152 nailed and that's the primary focuse
22:57:32 <silvia> JF: what about the poster issue?
22:57:51 <silvia> … maybe better not :-)
22:58:47 <silvia> … it's with the chairs now and change proposal time has finished
22:59:22 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 7
22:59:22 <Zakim> agendum 7, Bug 10693 - Need a means for navigating between related timed, closed
22:59:24 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:59:26 <Zakim> 8. tracks of media elements  Poster [from JF]
22:59:43 <silvia> Janina only has this on the list for copy-paste issues
22:59:46 <silvia> … we should close this now
22:59:53 <Zakim> -eric
22:59:53 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 8
22:59:54 <Zakim> agendum 8, tracks of media elements  Poster, closed
22:59:56 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:59:58 <Zakim> 9. Other Business? [from JF]
22:59:58 <Zakim> -Plh
23:00:00 <Zakim> -Judy
23:00:01 <Zakim> -JF
23:00:03 <silvia> no other business
23:00:08 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 9
23:00:08 <Zakim> agendum 9, Other Business?, closed
23:00:09 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
23:00:09 <Zakim> 10. be done [from JF]
23:00:24 <Zakim> -sean
23:00:26 <silvia> zakim, close agendum 10
23:00:26 <Zakim> agendum 10, be done, closed
23:00:27 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
23:01:10 <silvia> meeting closed
23:01:12 <Zakim> -silvia
23:01:14 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM has ended
23:01:16 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.650.468.aaaa, JF, Judy, +44.154.558.aabb, +61.2.937.4.aacc, silvia, Plh, sean, +1.510.367.aadd, eric
23:02:00 <silvia> rrsagent, create minutes
23:02:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-html-a11y-minutes.html silvia
23:02:22 <silvia> rrsagent, make minutes public
23:02:22 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', silvia.  Try /msg RRSAgent help