IRC log of federated on 2011-03-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:59:36 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #federated
19:59:36 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-federated-irc
19:59:41 [eschnou]: I'm trying with sip as well but so far the conference code is invalid... fswxg# ?
19:59:57 [bblfish]: bblfish has joined #federated
20:00:01 [bblfish]: hi
20:00:16 [dml]: dml has joined #federated
20:00:40 [harry]: agenda+ http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar.html
20:01:10 [harry]: agenda- 1
20:01:37 [MacTed]: Zakim, this is FSWXG
20:01:37 [Zakim]: ok, MacTed; that matches INC_(FSWXG)3:00PM
20:01:48 [Zakim]: +jeffsayre
20:01:52 [MacTed]: trackbot, start meeting
20:01:54 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
20:01:56 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be FSWG
20:01:56 [Zakim]: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
20:01:57 [trackbot]: Meeting: Federated Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
20:01:57 [trackbot]: Date: 08 March 2011
20:02:02 [jan_]: jan_ has joined #federated
20:02:04 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
20:02:04 [Zakim]: sorry, MacTed, I don't know what conference this is
20:02:11 [MacTed]: zack, this is FSWXG
20:02:20 [MacTed]: Zakim, this is FSWXG
20:02:20 [Zakim]: ok, MacTed; that matches INC_(FSWXG)3:00PM
20:02:26 [evan]: OK, are we on?
20:02:26 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
20:02:26 [Zakim]: sorry, MacTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
20:02:34 [Zakim]: +??P15
20:02:35 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's here?
20:02:36 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P0, ??P3, +1.301.458.aaaa, ??P7, ??P5, ??P6, OpenLink_Software, jeffsayre, +1.301.848.aabb, [IPcaller], ??P10, +1.253.590.aacc, ??P15 (muted)
20:02:36 [Simon]: Simon has joined #federated
20:02:39 [Zakim]: On IRC I see jan_, dml, bblfish, RRSAgent, Zakim, markus, terraces, wetter, evan, eschnou, Jan, thkoch, faborl, zack, maxogden, donpdonp, cdent, drenfer, harry, MacTed, bman,
20:02:40 [webr3]: zakim, i am ??P15
20:02:42 [Zakim]: ... webr3, bear, trackbot
20:02:42 [Zakim]: +webr3; got it
20:02:44 [MacTed]: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
20:02:44 [Zakim]: +MacTed; got it
20:02:47 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
20:02:47 [Zakim]: MacTed should now be muted
20:02:59 [bradk]: bradk has joined #federated
20:03:08 [webr3]: zakim, who is making noise?
20:03:09 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller.a]
20:03:13 [zack]: uhm, the French number doesn't work for me
20:03:15 [Zakim]: -??P7
20:03:17 [Zakim]: + +1.510.472.aadd
20:03:18 [harry]: Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is harry
20:03:18 [Simon]: Someone is sitting in a datacenter.
20:03:19 [Zakim]: +harry; got it
20:03:19 [Zakim]: webr3, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P0 (43%), +1.301.458.aaaa (59%), ??P18 (14%)
20:03:19 [jeffsayre]: jeffsayre has joined #federated
20:03:28 [harry]: Zakim, mute ??P0
20:03:28 [Zakim]: ??P0 should now be muted
20:03:35 [eschnou]: daniel, did you succeed with SIP ? What numbers should I type on my dialpad ?
20:03:37 [harry]: Zakim, mute aaaa
20:03:37 [Zakim]: +1.301.458.aaaa should now be muted
20:03:44 [cdent]: zack, uk number didn't work for me, so used us number
20:03:45 [harry]: Zakim, mute ??P18
20:03:45 [Zakim]: sorry, harry, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??P18
20:03:47 [Zakim]: +??P7
20:03:49 [Zakim]: +??P14
20:03:52 [zack]: cdent: kthx
20:03:52 [dietpunk]: dietpunk has joined #federated
20:03:55 [MacTed]: oh interesting... someone W3-ish may hopefully be able to tell trackbot that this is FSWXG, not FSWG, for calendaring
20:03:58 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's noisy?
20:04:03 [bblfish]: Zakim, I am P7
20:04:03 [Zakim]: sorry, bblfish, I do not see a party named 'P7'
20:04:07 [harry]: Zakim, who's making noise?
20:04:10 [Zakim]: MacTed, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P14 (13%), harry (4%)
20:04:13 [bblfish]: Zakim, I am ??P7
20:04:13 [Zakim]: +bblfish; got it
20:04:15 [harry]: Zakim, mute ??P14
20:04:15 [Zakim]: ??P14 should now be muted
20:04:17 [dml]: zakim, i am aabb
20:04:17 [Zakim]: +dml; got it
20:04:18 [Simon]: someone who joined about 1 minute ago has a very loud background noise.
20:04:22 [Zakim]: +??P17
20:04:23 [jan_]: still trying , now
20:04:24 [Zakim]: harry, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: harry (39%)
20:04:26 [harry]: Perhaps thats me...
20:04:28 [Zakim]: - +1.301.458.aaaa
20:04:29 [harry]: ok, dialing ut.
20:04:32 [Zakim]: -bblfish
20:04:33 [terraces]: zakim, ??P17 is me
20:04:34 [Zakim]: +terraces; got it
20:04:34 [drenfer]: I'm still getting that the passcode is invalid
20:04:36 [Zakim]: -harry
20:04:39 [wetter]: ah, i know this data-center, sounds like ...
20:04:48 [markus]: i am in with skype, but i should be muted
20:04:52 [lattice]: lattice has joined #federated
20:04:53 [harry]: \me odd I am not in a large data set
20:04:54 [eschnou]: @drenfer me too, anyone else using the sip bridge ?
20:04:55 [Zakim]: +??P18
20:04:59 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's making noise?
20:05:06 [Zakim]: +??P13
20:05:10 [Zakim]: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
20:05:14 [MacTed]: huh.
20:05:19 [lattice]: hi all - UK number not working, any details?
20:05:28 [bblfish]: Zakim, who is here
20:05:28 [Zakim]: bblfish, you need to end that query with '?'
20:05:29 [cdent]: lattice: same for me, went in us number
20:05:30 [Zakim]: + +39.525.0.aaee
20:05:33 [jan_]: still only noises
20:05:34 [Zakim]: + +43.838.0aaff
20:05:36 [bblfish]: Zakim, who is here?
20:05:37 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P0 (muted), ??P3, ??P5, ??P6, MacTed (muted), jeffsayre, dml, [IPcaller], ??P10, +1.253.590.aacc, webr3, +1.510.472.aadd, ??P14 (muted), terraces, ??P18,
20:05:41 [Zakim]: ... ??P13, +39.525.0.aaee, +43.838.0aaff
20:05:43 [Zakim]: On IRC I see lattice, dietpunk, jeffsayre, bradk, Simon, jan_, dml, bblfish, RRSAgent, Zakim, markus, terraces, wetter, evan, eschnou, Jan, thkoch, faborl, zack, maxogden,
20:05:46 [Zakim]: ... donpdonp, cdent, drenfer, harry, MacTed, bman, webr3, bear, trackbot
20:05:51 [Zakim]: +??P21
20:05:54 [MacTed]: Zakim, unmute me
20:05:54 [Zakim]: MacTed should no longer be muted
20:05:58 [lattice]: Zakim: is there a UK number?
20:06:03 [zack]: I wonder who am I now?
20:06:08 [lattice]: c'mon artificial intelligence! :-)
20:06:11 [Zakim]: - +39.525.0.aaee
20:06:12 [Zakim]: -??P21
20:06:19 [terraces]: you can hands up on the phone to see who you are
20:06:19 [zack]: ok, that was me, re-dialing in
20:06:22 [evan]: I forget how to claim my number
20:06:25 [wetter]: Berlin-Group is in the Chat room, litening to the noise and a bit stumblin
20:06:42 [Zakim]: + +1.734.237.aagg
20:06:51 [Zakim]: -??P18
20:07:01 [drenfer]: Zakim, mute me
20:07:01 [Zakim]: sorry, drenfer, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
20:07:02 [Simon]: and then there was peace.
20:07:08 [Zakim]: +??P18
20:07:09 [jeffsayre]: Nice
20:07:13 [Zakim]: + +39.525.0.aahh
20:07:16 [bblfish]: Zakim, ??P18 is me
20:07:16 [Zakim]: +bblfish; got it
20:07:21 [eschnou]: @drenfer Are you on SIP ? How did you get in ?
20:07:22 [zack]: Zakim: I am + +39.525.0.aahh
20:07:26 [Zakim]: + +34.93.183.aaii
20:07:29 [drenfer]: I'm using Google Voice
20:07:32 [zack]: Zakim, mute me
20:07:32 [Zakim]: sorry, zack, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
20:07:32 [MacTed]: Zakim, aahh is zack
20:07:33 [Zakim]: +zack; got it
20:07:39 [terraces]: yes harry
20:07:41 [harry]: Zakim, aaii is hhalpin
20:07:41 [Zakim]: +hhalpin; got it
20:07:44 [zack]: Zakim, mute me
20:07:44 [Zakim]: zack should now be muted
20:07:57 [Zakim]: + +44.207.274.aajj
20:07:59 [Zakim]: + +1.919.265.aakk
20:07:59 [terraces]: zakim, ??P10 is faborl
20:08:00 [Zakim]: +faborl; got it
20:08:04 [harry]: agenda+ Convene FSWXG WG meeting of 2011-03-08T20:00-21:00GMT
20:08:08 [evan]: Zakim, aaff is evan
20:08:09 [Zakim]: +evan; got it
20:08:15 [harry]: agenda+ Introductions
20:08:24 [harry]: agenda+ Federated Social Web Summit 2011
20:08:33 [harry]: agenda+ W3C Infrastructure
20:08:35 [harry]: q?
20:08:38 [Zakim]: + +1.415.230.aall
20:08:48 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute aall
20:08:50 [Zakim]: +1.415.230.aall should now be muted
20:08:55 [harry]: q+ Documenting SWAT and Implementations
20:08:59 [eschnou]: I'm in.. with Skype :-( Sip did not work.
20:09:00 [lattice]: Zakim: aajj is lattice
20:09:00 [harry]: agenda+ Documenting SWAT and Implementations
20:09:01 [cdent]: Zakim I am P10
20:09:01 [wetter]: Oh, that sounded more like harbour, quite windy.
20:09:08 [zack]: Zakim, who is muted?
20:09:08 [Zakim]: I see ??P0, ??P14, zack, +1.415.230.aall muted
20:09:08 [harry]: agenda+ Encrypted Communication SWAT Test
20:09:12 [Zakim]: + +81.15.622.aamm
20:09:13 [harry]: Zakim, unmute me
20:09:13 [Zakim]: sorry, harry, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
20:09:19 [harry]: Zakim, unmute hhalpin
20:09:19 [Zakim]: hhalpin was not muted, harry
20:09:22 [MacTed]: sorry, too much noise, new 415 caller....
20:09:33 [jeffsayre]: I'm not.
20:09:46 [harry]: q?
20:10:00 [webr3]: zakim, who is making noise?
20:10:04 [harry]: \me Zakim, ??P10 is cdent
20:10:10 [Zakim]: webr3, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (41%), [IPcaller] (15%), +1.415.230.aall (69%), hhalpin (84%)
20:10:17 [harry]: ack ??P10
20:10:18 [Zakim]: +Luca
20:10:21 [cdent]: Zakim ??P10 is cdent
20:10:39 [Zakim]: +??P26
20:10:41 [bblfish]: cdent, you need to put a , after Zakim
20:10:45 [cdent]: thanks
20:10:55 [cdent]: Zakim, ??P10 is cdent
20:10:55 [Zakim]: I already had ??P10 as faborl, cdent
20:11:04 [harry]: chair: hhalpin
20:11:07 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's here?
20:11:07 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P0 (muted), ??P3, ??P5, ??P6, MacTed, jeffsayre, dml, [IPcaller], faborl, +1.253.590.aacc, webr3, +1.510.472.aadd, ??P14 (muted), terraces, ??P13, evan,
20:11:10 [Zakim]: ... +1.734.237.aagg (muted), bblfish, zack (muted), hhalpin, +44.207.274.aajj, +1.919.265.aakk, +1.415.230.aall, +81.15.622.aamm, Luca, ??P26
20:11:13 [Zakim]: On IRC I see lattice, dietpunk, jeffsayre, bradk, Simon, jan_, dml, bblfish, RRSAgent, Zakim, markus, terraces, wetter, evan, eschnou, Jan, thkoch, faborl, zack, maxogden,
20:11:14 [prhodes]: prhodes has joined #federated
20:11:16 [Zakim]: ... donpdonp, cdent, drenfer, harry, MacTed, bman, webr3, bear, trackbot
20:11:28 [evan]: drenfer: scribe?
20:11:28 [josephboyle]: josephboyle has joined #federated
20:11:28 [cdent]: Zakim, [IPcaller] is cdent
20:11:28 [Zakim]: +cdent; got it
20:11:42 [drenfer]: sorry, I'll have to pass
20:11:45 [bblfish]: I can try a bit if someone wnats to help
20:11:49 [harry]: chair: Evan
20:11:52 [harry]: scribe: hhalpin
20:12:04 [harry]: topic: Convene FSWXG WG meeting of 2011-03-08T20:00-21:00GMT
20:12:06 [faborl]: Zakim, mute me
20:12:06 [Zakim]: faborl should now be muted
20:12:28 [harry]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
20:12:28 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P0 (muted), ??P3, ??P5, ??P6, MacTed, jeffsayre, dml, cdent, faborl (muted), +1.253.590.aacc, webr3, +1.510.472.aadd, ??P14 (muted), terraces, ??P13, evan,
20:12:31 [Zakim]: ... +1.734.237.aagg (muted), bblfish, zack (muted), hhalpin, +44.207.274.aajj, +1.919.265.aakk, +1.415.230.aall (muted), +81.15.622.aamm, Luca, ??P26
20:12:42 [drenfer]: I'm new here
20:12:47 [kaliya]: kaliya has joined #federated
20:12:50 [dml]: New, as well
20:12:54 [faborl]: new as well
20:12:57 [thkoch]: Zakim, [IPcaller] is thkoch
20:12:57 [Zakim]: sorry, thkoch, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
20:13:11 [harry]: minutes: http://www.w3.org/2011/01/11-federated-minutes.html
20:13:13 [blaine]: Zakim: aajj is blaine
20:13:15 [terraces]: first telco for me as well
20:13:21 [Zakim]: - +1.510.472.aadd
20:13:25 [jeffsayre]: I just was accepted as an invited expert. So, I'm new here as well.
20:13:38 [ciberch]: ciberch has joined #federated
20:13:39 [bblfish]: +1
20:13:59 [harry]: APROVED: minutes from Googe Group Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2011/01/11-federated-minutes.html
20:14:04 [eschnou]: Zakim, +1.415.230.aall is me
20:14:04 [Zakim]: +eschnou; got it
20:14:31 [Zakim]: + +1.510.472.aann
20:14:57 [Zakim]: + +1.215.359.aaoo
20:15:01 [harry]: Evan: we're going forward with intros
20:15:08 [harry]: ... please send out intros with emails
20:15:16 [harry]: ... but we can do intros re emails.
20:15:28 [kaliya]: we should just have people "say" they are here
20:15:33 [reidab]: reidab has joined #federated
20:15:34 [kaliya]: so we know names but intro's seem to much.
20:15:46 [harry]: I recommend quick intros if you haven't done via email!
20:15:52 [bear]: zakim aaoo is bear
20:15:59 [thurston]: thurston has joined #federated
20:16:02 [thkoch]: Hi. Thkoch here. I'm from switzerland and would like to work as a GoogleSummerOfCode student on bullycloud or onesocialnet
20:16:02 [cdent]: Zakim, queue-
20:16:02 [Zakim]: I see [IPcaller] on the speaker queue
20:16:03 [jan_]: will do on agenda item 3
20:16:11 [cdent]: Zakim, queue- cdent
20:16:11 [Zakim]: I see [IPcaller] on the speaker queue
20:16:24 [harry]: topic: Federated Social Web Summit 2011
20:16:33 [harry]: Evan: what are we going to do?
20:16:36 [terraces]: fyi, my intro : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-federatedsocialweb/2011Mar/0009.html
20:16:39 [harry]: ... we had a summit in 2010
20:16:44 [harry]: ... we had a lot of questions
20:16:52 [harry]: ... one of the main instigators of this group
20:17:17 [harry]: ... so we have a volunteer for space/funding June 3-5th in Berlin
20:17:22 [harry]: ... unless there's gross outrage.
20:17:23 [bblfish]: cool
20:17:24 [thkoch]: Zakim, ??P13 may be thkoch
20:17:24 [Zakim]: +thkoch?; got it
20:17:28 [harry]: ... website is under development
20:17:28 [terraces]: q+ to ask about the dates
20:17:56 [eschnou]: Is this next to another conference or do we expect people to travel just for the day ?
20:17:59 [bblfish]: is Jan from Berlin on irc?
20:18:09 [jan_]: yes
20:18:14 [maxogden]: jan_: yo!
20:18:18 [dietpunk]: Jan is reading the IRC.
20:18:25 [bblfish]: Conf is going to happen in Berlin, Federated Social Web Summit
20:18:33 [dietpunk]: Just has his hands full w/ microfone ;-)
20:18:35 [bblfish]: June 3-5
20:19:04 [bblfish]: 2 day Open Space Hack Day. Party at CBase in Berlin.
20:19:12 [Simon]: http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/C-base
20:19:15 [zack]: (CCC site)
20:19:36 [bblfish]: ccc site is here http://ccc.de/
20:19:38 [jan_]: http://78.47.176.118/
20:19:53 [jan_]: this is the draft website for the conf
20:19:53 [thkoch]: Is the date june 3-5 already fixed? It collides with "Kirchentag" (German Church meeting) for me
20:19:54 [bblfish]: help with funding for people who come from a long way away
20:20:09 [jan_]: +q
20:20:13 [kaliya]: I think there are also two events in North America - on either side it would be good to leverage/cooperate with - cause many north american's are not going to make it to Berlin. Internet Identity Workshop May 3-5 and the IndieWeb Summit at the end of June.
20:20:15 [wetter]: everyone & jan_: Please do not circulate this URL at the moment broader than this circle.
20:20:22 [harry]: ack jan
20:20:32 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
20:20:32 [Zakim]: MacTed should now be muted
20:20:38 [terraces]: i'm on the q harry
20:21:07 [harry]: +1 kaliya's suggestion - maybe do one in Nov before IIW if folks can't make it to Berlin.
20:21:08 [bblfish]: Berlin is very nice place for Americans - no jet lag. Berlin is open until 5 am
20:21:09 [zack]: Zakim, unmute me
20:21:09 [Zakim]: zack should no longer be muted
20:21:11 [harry]: q+
20:21:23 [Zakim]: -??P6
20:21:33 [jan_]: +q
20:21:36 [zack]: Zakim, mute me
20:21:36 [Zakim]: zack should now be muted
20:21:37 [markus]: markus from http://projectdanube.org, i am definitely interested in coming to berlin and contributing
20:21:37 [kaliya]: Well do it "within" IIW - as the agenda is created live if a lot of Federated Social Web people attend they can get work done there.
20:21:40 [bblfish]: is the conference for who: geeks, academics?
20:21:41 [ciberch]: +1 to doing North America event as well
20:21:45 [harry]: Evan: I'm up for having two summits, one in Europe and on in USA
20:21:57 [prhodes]: +1 for NA event
20:22:01 [prhodes]: east coast is good. :-)
20:22:17 [zack]: ok
20:22:18 [harry]: Evan: participation is pretty open, I want the people who are working hard on these questions to participate.
20:22:22 [harry]: q?
20:22:23 [Simon]: This event should really include a plugfest
20:22:25 [bblfish]: Evan: an even for people working hard on these questions
20:22:46 [harry]: Evan: I'm not sure if we're at a point reaching out to non-practioners is a worthwhile
20:22:54 [kaliya]: the Indie Web camp is already being organized in Portland in http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page
20:22:56 [harry]: q?
20:22:58 [bblfish]: q+
20:23:00 [eschnou]: q+
20:23:04 [ciberch]: +1 to Harry agreed
20:23:06 [harry]: ack [IPcaller]
20:23:09 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
20:23:20 [wetter]: [IPcaller] = jan_ = Jan Schallaboeck
20:23:36 [MacTed]: Zakim, [IPcaller] is jan_
20:23:36 [Zakim]: +jan_; got it
20:23:46 [harry]: Alex: SemTech is 5th of June, so semantic web folks will be there.
20:23:58 [jeffsayre]: I may be at SemTech 2011 in San Fran, June 5-9, 2011
20:24:14 [maxogden]: also of note is indiewebcamp in portland oregon on june 25-26 http://plancast.com/p/3cos/indiewebcamp
20:24:16 [bblfish]: semtech probably starts on 6
20:24:22 [MacTed]: Zakim, who is muted?
20:24:22 [Zakim]: I see ??P0, MacTed, faborl, ??P14, +1.734.237.aagg, zack, eschnou muted
20:24:33 [dietpunk]: Jan is talking ... microphone change ...
20:24:37 [harry]: q?
20:24:42 [harry]: ack terraces
20:24:42 [Zakim]: terraces, you wanted to ask about the dates
20:24:45 [eschnou]: Zakim, unmute me
20:24:45 [Zakim]: eschnou should no longer be muted
20:24:49 [jan_]: mic does not seem to work, sorry.
20:24:56 [harry]: ack harry
20:25:09 [jan_]: I just had circulated the link on the website
20:25:17 [drenfer]: +1.734.237.aagg = drenfer = Daniel E. Renfer
20:25:17 [evan]: harry, current web site says FSWS europe
20:25:25 [jan_]: I think naming is fine either way
20:25:39 [evan]: kaliya: not suggesting fall, but there may be a chance for IIW in May
20:25:42 [Zakim]: + +1.503.928.aapp
20:25:57 [harry]: kaliya: the IIW is May would be a good event
20:26:12 [bblfish]: I'd like to try to come to IIW… will let you know how feasible it is
20:26:16 [harry]: http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/
20:26:32 [eschnou]: q-
20:26:35 [jeffsayre]: What are dates of IIW?
20:26:54 [bblfish]: IIW May 3-5 I think
20:27:03 [harry]: Evan: We should use the June opportunity for some event, continue to call it the "Europe" event, and then use the ancillary conferences like Indieweb and IIW to fill in with USA, and maybe an official "USA" event for later this year /early next year?
20:27:06 [donpdonp]: jeffsayre: http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/iiw-12/
20:27:18 [harry]: +1
20:27:22 [harry]: q?
20:27:22 [cdent]: +1
20:27:24 [jan_]: absolutely
20:27:25 [jeffsayre]: bblfish | donpdonp : Thanks.
20:27:27 [prhodes]: +1`
20:27:31 [harry]: ack jan_
20:27:34 [kaliya]: +1
20:27:40 [eschnou]: q+
20:27:45 [harry]: ack bblfish
20:28:05 [harry]: bblfish: I was trying to move the WebID face-to-face over to Berlin
20:28:16 [jan_]: q+
20:28:21 [zack]: oh, oops, sorry, I think I skipped the speaker queue with my previous question
20:28:23 [jan_]: trying for the last time *sigh*
20:28:27 [evan]: +1
20:28:31 [harry]: ... as it seems there will be the right folks there, and it seemed to work last time
20:28:37 [harry]: ack eschnou
20:28:40 [blaine]: mute blaine
20:28:51 [blaine]: Zakim: mute blaine
20:28:58 [wetter]: Pro's Berlin, 3rd-5th June: Combination with PrimeLife-Workshop simoultanious, BerlinBuzzwords afterwards, broad privacy-discussions within germany.
20:29:20 [harry]: eschnou: We should try in general to meet with FOSDEM and OSCON
20:29:26 [Simon]: +1
20:29:33 [harry]: ... in moving on that makes things easier
20:29:39 [harry]: +1, but we missed FOSDEM this year :(
20:29:44 [harry]: ack jan_
20:30:00 [jan_]: no, does not work.
20:30:08 [harry]: topic: Update on Infrastructure
20:30:15 [harry]: Evan: from previous call we had two action items
20:30:20 [blaine]: I like events separate, easier to get people's attention - but that's an aside. ;-)
20:30:43 [eschnou]: @blaine you got free travel lucky boy :-)
20:31:01 [harry]: [IN PROCESS] ACTION: evan and hhalpin to migrate list and wiki over
20:31:03 [blaine]: eschnou: oh, if only. ;-)
20:32:28 [ciberch]: Harry I am still happy to help with the Community Groups
20:32:51 [harry]: ACTION: [DONE] hhalpin to setup trackbot
20:32:51 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE]
20:33:19 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's noisy?
20:33:22 [harry]: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/track/
20:33:30 [Zakim]: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: evan (9%), bblfish (12%), eschnou (87%), hhalpin (92%)
20:33:35 [bblfish]: are you typing harry?
20:33:36 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute eschnou
20:33:36 [Zakim]: eschnou should now be muted
20:34:27 [blaine]: Zakim, mute blaine
20:34:27 [Zakim]: sorry, blaine, I do not know which phone connection belongs to blaine
20:34:32 [harry]: topic: Documenting SWAT tests
20:34:35 [Zakim]: -??P0
20:34:41 [harry]: Evan: How formal do we want to take SWAT process
20:34:45 [harry]: ... do we want a formal test suite?
20:34:47 [eschnou]: zakim, unmute me
20:34:47 [Zakim]: eschnou should no longer be muted
20:35:00 [blaine]: Zakim, aajj is blaine
20:35:00 [Zakim]: +blaine; got it
20:35:03 [harry]: ... it's a user story
20:35:05 [blaine]: Zakim, mute blaine
20:35:05 [Zakim]: blaine should now be muted
20:35:09 [harry]: ... it does not make any requirements
20:35:19 [harry]: ... it lays out a user story that can be implemented with various protocols.
20:35:36 [harry]: ... is that sufficiently rigorous to encourage participation or should we have more formal tests?
20:35:39 [bblfish]: I think it was good to get going
20:35:45 [ciberch]: Where are the tests documented ?
20:35:47 [bblfish]: I still have not implemented it
20:35:49 [_alexpassant]: +1 for keeping it at a meta-level
20:35:49 [bblfish]: q+
20:35:51 [eschnou]: +1 for the informal youtube video styled tests :-)
20:35:56 [dml]: I believe it's here: http://federatedsocialweb.net/wiki/SWAT0
20:36:03 [harry]: ack bblfish
20:36:04 [harry]: q?
20:36:45 [harry]: http://acid3.acidtests.org/
20:36:58 [harry]: that is an example of testing for CSS
20:37:36 [harry]: Evan: as of today, federated social web is not specific to any particular protocol
20:37:42 [kaliya]: In the identity community OSIS has been doing adhoc - semi-formal testing of use-cases for several years
20:37:45 [zack]: dml: yup, that's it
20:37:49 [bblfish]: agree.
20:37:50 [harry]: ... so if we want to get down to bits and bytes today.
20:37:52 [kaliya]: we might look to them and learn about how they drive that kind of community process
20:37:59 [harry]: q+
20:38:10 [bblfish]: It's already good for us to know each others protocols
20:38:21 [evan]: q?
20:38:21 [harry]: ack harry
20:38:32 [drenfer]: I felt that SWAT0 left a bit too much open for interpretation, especially wrt how a user is tagged.
20:38:42 [kaliya]: http://osis.idcommons.net/wiki/Main_Page
20:39:04 [thurston]: I'm working on it with DSNP, coming soon!
20:39:05 [kaliya]: http://osis.idcommons.net/wiki/Open_Identity_for_Business_Interop_-_Burton_Group_Catalyst,_July_28,_2010
20:39:08 [kaliya]: was their last interop
20:39:24 [bblfish]: I'll add Clerezza to the wiki as soon as I have soemthing
20:39:28 [ciberch]: url ?
20:39:30 [harry]: http://federatedsocialweb.net/wiki/Software
20:39:33 [evan]: q+
20:39:34 [ciberch]: thanks
20:39:39 [harry]: http://federatedsocialweb.net/wiki/Protocols
20:39:45 [harry]: ack evan
20:39:50 [Zakim]: + +49.178.448.aaqq
20:40:04 [maxogden]: is there a list of implementations of swat0 on the wiki?
20:40:06 [ciberch]: +q
20:40:10 [harry]: hhalpin: maybe could we list implementations that work with SWAT0 somewhere?
20:40:19 [harry]: Evan: maybe list codebases, results, comments etc.
20:40:23 [markus]: my experience with SWAT0 was that it was great to get started, but really the only way to make it work was trial&error with other implementations, rather than correctly implementing the specs
20:40:32 [harry]: ... does someone want to take that?
20:40:38 [cdent]: markus++
20:40:40 [kaliya]: they have had a lot of success with industry participation and also tracking what did and didn't pass a matrix. http://osis.idcommons.net/wiki/I5:OpenID_Relying_Party_FeatureTest_Results
20:40:51 [harry]: ... so that would help with testing, as it would point to other implementations
20:41:20 [kaliya]: John Bradley has been a major leader of the OSIS effort and the process they developed - I am happy to make an introduction if people want to talk with him and learn more about what worked.
20:41:29 [maxogden]: kaliya: +1 to the matrix approach
20:41:52 [harry]: monica: I see some key missing workflows
20:41:58 [harry]: ... especially for enterprise
20:42:01 [harry]: ... I'd be happy to help
20:42:40 [harry]: ACTION: Evan to put list of SWAT0 on wiki
20:42:40 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-1 - Put list of SWAT0 on wiki [on Evan Prodromou - due 2011-03-15].
20:42:53 [harry]: ACTION: ciberch to then revamp wiki and go over SWAT0
20:42:53 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - ciberch
20:43:12 [harry]: topic: Encrypted message use-case
20:43:25 [harry]: Evan: From Appleseed, a private end-to-end crypto test-case
20:43:26 [webr3]: +1
20:43:58 [harry]: ... I have my personal feelings on this, that although I think its interesting and important, its had some success, its not been successful as a whole.
20:44:10 [harry]: ... only a small minority of users use end-to-end encryption via email.
20:44:20 [cdent]: evan++
20:44:22 [harry]: ... defining it as next step might be swallowing quite a bit.
20:44:25 [MacTed]: q+
20:44:31 [harry]: ack ciberch
20:44:32 [blaine]: +1
20:44:42 [MacTed]: Zakim, unmute me
20:44:42 [Zakim]: MacTed should no longer be muted
20:44:49 [ciberch]: I don't have a q sorry that was from the previous question
20:44:58 [harry]: ack MacTed
20:45:24 [cdent]: q+
20:45:34 [harry]: MacTed: the lack of user base for encryption is mainly because it hasnt been built into the codebase
20:45:40 [harry]: MacTed: Maybe there's other reasons.
20:45:48 [harry]: q?
20:45:54 [harry]: Evan: fair point
20:46:22 [blaine]: q+
20:46:25 [harry]: ... maybe we could aim for something easier immediately
20:46:31 [bear]: end to end is not because of the server but the pipes to and from the server
20:46:33 [evan]: ack cdent
20:46:44 [Zakim]: -zack
20:46:57 [zack]: d'oh
20:47:07 [dml]: q+
20:47:20 [harry]: cdent: is encryption really a focal point
20:47:24 [harry]: ... maybe its a secondary thing
20:47:32 [cdent]: ineed
20:47:33 [bblfish]: With WebID you get both
20:47:34 [harry]: ... if the focus is on the social
20:47:34 [cdent]: indeed
20:47:35 [Zakim]: +zack
20:47:40 [harry]: ack blaine
20:47:44 [ciberch]: https for everything
20:47:45 [zack]: Zakim, mute me
20:47:45 [Zakim]: zack should now be muted
20:48:00 [evan]: blaine: point of the swat tests is to give this community a way of developing a product
20:48:02 [harry]: blaine: to echo that point, the point is to give it some user-stories to develop a product
20:48:12 [harry]: ... otherwise we'll just be developing protocols without a product
20:48:18 [harry]: ... a way of thinking about the product
20:48:20 [zack]: q+
20:48:24 [MacTed]: q+
20:48:39 [evan]: let's see if I can do these ack
20:48:39 [harry]: ... encryption is a feature, not a product
20:48:42 [ciberch]: +1 blaine
20:48:45 [bblfish]: +1
20:48:47 [evan]: ack dml
20:48:48 [jeffsayre]: =!
20:48:53 [harry]: ... you can add encryption to user-driving features, but not the reverse
20:48:53 [jeffsayre]: oops +1
20:49:09 [harry]: dml: encryption is a particular mechanism to achieve a more fundamental goal
20:49:16 [eschnou]: +1 swat should be about UX, not technology/protocols
20:49:26 [harry]: ... one potential swat test, the notion of insuring and authenticating
20:49:32 [harry]: ... their data
20:49:33 [ciberch]: +1 Privacy and Authentication
20:49:39 [harry]: ... to make sure they can get there
20:49:40 [Zakim]: - +1.253.590.aacc
20:49:45 [harry]: ... persona work
20:49:55 [harry]: ... social networks would only store info encrypted by user
20:49:55 [blaine]: Zakim, mute blaine
20:49:55 [Zakim]: blaine should now be muted
20:50:04 [harry]: ... but only people to who user gives keys can decrypt it
20:50:10 [harry]: ... end-to-end HTTPS is one means
20:50:25 [evan]: q?
20:50:26 [zack]: Zakim, unmute me
20:50:26 [Zakim]: zack should no longer be muted
20:50:27 [harry]: ... we could focus on this topic for next SWAT est
20:50:31 [cdent]: valid point dml but still seems early
20:50:36 [harry]: zack: a quick community point
20:50:36 [blaine]: ... and to add to dml's point, I've circulated a proposal that doesn't involve any encryption at all, but provides a reasonably high degree of privacy.
20:50:58 [harry]: ... some of the hype are people who are interested in a couple of use-cases
20:51:08 [harry]: ... freedombox, communicating through a mesh
20:51:17 [harry]: ... some of the hype via african movements
20:51:21 [harry]: q+
20:51:27 [kaliya]: There is also the Locker Project
20:51:41 [eschnou]: q+
20:51:46 [harry]: ... to attract interest of community it might be useful to attract this community
20:51:52 [evan]: ack zack
20:51:54 [ciberch]: +1
20:51:58 [zack]: Zakim, mute me
20:51:58 [Zakim]: zack should now be muted
20:51:59 [evan]: ack MacTed
20:52:04 [harry]: s/attrack this community/have this encryption feature
20:52:23 [harry]: MacTed: SWAT is not at all about making a product, its not about making a product, so each of us might built a product
20:52:30 [harry]: ... and we want them to interoperate
20:52:36 [bblfish]: MacTed: we are not building a product, but interoperability
20:52:36 [harry]: ... one of things is privacy
20:52:52 [bblfish]: q?
20:52:57 [evan]: q+
20:52:59 [harry]: ... having your site behind closed doors and sending everything on post-cards
20:53:09 [evan]: ack harry
20:53:09 [harry]: ... an important part of privacy
20:53:09 [bblfish]: +1
20:53:11 [prhodes]: +1
20:53:17 [bradk]: +1
20:53:21 [ciberch]: +1
20:53:26 [dml]: A fundamental notion of federation is the lack of a centralized trust domain, in which case authentication and controlling information flow may be so fundamental that they need to be considered very early on.
20:53:43 [bblfish]: q+
20:53:54 [Zakim]: -thkoch?
20:53:58 [_alexpassant]: not convinced that encryption is in the scope of the XG
20:54:05 [kaliya]: There is also Persona Management
20:54:10 [_alexpassant]: but probably relevant to discuss with the webid XG
20:54:37 [jeffsayre]: _alexpassant: Agreed.
20:54:52 [bblfish]: yes, we have http://www.w3.org/wiki/Pingback
20:54:57 [kaliya]: I just went on Diaspora and I found lots of folks. but maybe that was recently. I was thinking of having a "movement" at sxsw - to get people to really start using Diaspora as they use facebook or twitter.
20:55:19 [prhodes]: wouldn't think this XG would be developing any new encryption protocols, for sure. But sorting out the relationship between existing encryption protocols and the federation protocols could be in scope.
20:55:23 [harry]: hhalpin: could we have a story about adding friends in a federated matter with a good user base
20:55:46 [ciberch]: q+
20:55:47 [harry]: laurent: sharing activities with a sub-group of friends, and then exposing only a subset of your data to your friends
20:55:49 [blaine]: re: not being able to add on security later, please look at RedPhone: http://www.whispersys.com/
20:55:49 [zack]: kaliya: OTOH, people should start using it in a distributed way, to be sure the message is getting through
20:56:01 [zack]: s/distributed/federated/ (my bad :))
20:56:06 [blaine]: +1
20:56:15 [thurston]: finding your friends: are search engines the answer?
20:56:17 [MacTed]: +1
20:56:23 [harry]: laurent: encryption is feasible, but should not be at core of infrastructure, but we should make sure on top of it.
20:56:47 [eschnou]: zakim, ack eschnou
20:56:47 [Zakim]: I see evan, bblfish, ciberch on the speaker queue
20:56:59 [harry]: notes there is interesting work on distributed search via caching by Ricardo Baeza-Yates that might be useful for "friend search" in distributed manner
20:57:05 [zack]: fair point "there is just one 0"
20:57:12 [harry]: Evan: Is there a way to collect these user stories without requiring for them to be SWAT1?
20:57:20 [eschnou]: can't we relate to the use cases documented by the SWXG ?
20:57:26 [harry]: ... could we collect these stories and case a broader net for user-stories
20:57:28 [harry]: q+
20:57:31 [ciberch]: +1
20:57:33 [prhodes]: +1
20:57:43 [harry]: ... less what is SWAT1 and what is the SWAT test
20:57:48 [bblfish]: a wiki with SWAT/Friending
20:57:51 [harry]: ack evan
20:57:58 [bblfish]: SWAT/Mail
20:58:09 [harry]: ... we may get to the point where there is broad set of use-cases people want to pursue
20:58:12 [bblfish]: +1
20:58:13 [evan]: ack bblfish
20:58:13 [harry]: +1
20:58:40 [harry]: bblfish: we could have a place to write them out
20:58:41 [Zakim]: - +49.178.448.aaqq
20:58:51 [harry]: ... where easier ones could take off.
20:59:01 [bblfish]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Pingback
20:59:03 [harry]: ... no-one's even implemented a distributed friending protocol
20:59:04 [dml]: The necessary crypto may make some operations currently impractical (ref. homomorphic encryption), and may prove impossible to be added on top of some designs after the fact.
20:59:15 [MacTed]: I have to bail out of phone; have another call in 90 seconds... IRC will remain but backgrounded.
20:59:24 [Zakim]: -MacTed
20:59:27 [ciberch]: ignore my q
20:59:29 [evan]: OStatus has remote subscribe -- one-way "follow"
20:59:31 [harry]: ... if we think in terms of REST, adding security is just a matter of adding HTTPS
20:59:32 [maxogden]: would liek to bring up the OInvite protocol re: friending https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ostatus-discuss/mf0UlEz7UxE
20:59:32 [evan]: But not "friend"
20:59:38 [dml]: q+
21:00:19 [harry]: Have not seen OInvite, thanks maxogden
21:00:21 [harry]: ack ciberch
21:00:22 [jeffsayre]: Agree with prhodes . There are a number of authentication (authn) and authorization (authz) protcols. This XG should be aware of them and consider them in certain use cases but not necessarily recommend one versus the other. We have another W3C XG dealing with secure identity http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/ .
21:00:53 [harry]: ciberch: one of the issues we have streams attached to group of users
21:01:01 [harry]: ... who gets to view which part of the stream?
21:01:08 [evan]: q+
21:01:11 [harry]: ack harry
21:01:16 [bblfish]: +1 for many user stories in the wiki
21:01:23 [evan]: I'd like to propose making a list of SWAT "candidate" use cases for next meeting
21:01:26 [kaliya]: I can't emphasize how useful and helpful having "identity in the cloud for groups"
21:01:28 [bblfish]: and each one with implementations listed and descriptions
21:02:00 [jeffsayre]: +1
21:02:15 [kaliya]: as a normative thing cause it would make the web ACTUALLY SOCIAL - rather then the networked individual web
21:02:35 [bblfish]: 5
21:02:37 [kaliya]: well why don't we just time bound when we will settle on SWAT 1.
21:02:41 [prhodes]: 5 would probably work
21:02:47 [evan]: kaliya++
21:02:49 [kaliya]: 5 seems like a lot 3?
21:02:53 [prhodes]: that too
21:02:57 [evan]: time bound keeps us from talking forever
21:02:58 [bradk]: q+
21:02:59 [_alexpassant]: I think that the way we chosed the user story in the previous XG worked well and w could do the same
21:03:18 [_alexpassant]: e.g. 2 weeks for throwing ideas on the wiki and then telco to get the shortlist
21:03:20 [kaliya]: But distributed group management - across social web - that would be HUGE to figure out how to do that well.
21:03:21 [evan]: harry: take 2 weeks to collect use cases on list
21:03:26 [harry]: q?
21:03:27 [_alexpassant]: q+
21:03:28 [harry]: ack dml
21:03:28 [evan]: ack dml
21:03:31 [kaliya]: give a whole set of services life.
21:03:32 [ciberch]: +1 on time boxing
21:03:36 [_alexpassant]: q-
21:03:45 [harry]: dml: as far as putting HTTPS on top
21:03:50 [harry]: ... its a bit different
21:03:59 [harry]: ... if we assume two endpoints are trusted then we're OK
21:04:30 [harry]: ... but for federated idea, how about Alice puts something on website, Bob gets it, but Eve gets it and Alice hasn't given Eve permission
21:04:33 [harry]: ... its another kind of attack
21:04:42 [blaine]: -1
21:04:45 [harry]: ... Alice could have sniffed it, but maybe Bob just shared it with her accidently
21:04:48 [blaine]: +q
21:04:52 [harry]: ack evan
21:05:24 [blaine]: -q
21:05:30 [harry]: ISSUE: Collect use-cases and figure out how to limit it to a smaller list
21:05:30 [trackbot]: Created ISSUE-1 - Collect use-cases and figure out how to limit it to a smaller list ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/track/issues/1/edit .
21:05:33 [jeffsayre]: +1
21:05:36 [prhodes]: +1
21:05:37 [bblfish]: +1
21:05:44 [cdent]: +1
21:05:49 [harry]: Evan: So lets focus on how to get the smaller list once we have the list.
21:05:57 [harry]: ack bradk
21:06:13 [_alexpassant]: btw, anyone at SXSW ? evan you have a panel, right ?
21:06:17 [harry]: bradk: a little bit back further, we thought an alternative to numbered use-cases
21:06:17 [dml]: Bob could always share it, you can't ever get around that attack, but implicit here is that Alice trusts Bob, and that is why she shared with him.
21:06:19 [blaine]: harry: it's been said, probably off-topic for the call. :-)
21:06:20 [evan]: yes!
21:06:29 [harry]: .. to go for named used-cases
21:06:30 [blaine]: evan: yeah, we should talk about that. ;-)
21:06:43 [harry]: ... people add as many as they want
21:06:44 [evan]: blaine: let's!
21:06:46 [harry]: ... then people can add
21:06:50 [evan]: q+
21:07:01 [harry]: ... if there are different groups that want to focus on different things
21:07:07 [harry]: ... hopefully we wouldn't add too many
21:07:17 [ciberch]: and vote on the use cases
21:07:27 [bblfish]: you could do some OO programming
21:07:35 [harry]: ack Evan
21:07:35 [bblfish]: when we have enough use cases
21:07:41 [_alexpassant]: evan: need a semweb speaker :) ?
21:07:42 [harry]: +1 brad's suggestion re naming rather than numbering
21:07:43 [bblfish]: then abstract them to a few
21:08:02 [harry]: A bunch of use-case from the W3C earlier thinking:
21:08:04 [harry]: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalUseCases
21:08:18 [harry]: Evan: SXSW both myself and Blaine have a panel
21:08:24 [harry]: ... and we do an informal lunch immediately after
21:08:28 [harry]: ... any other upcoming issues
21:09:27 [ciberch]: thanks
21:09:33 [harry]: Meeting Adjourned
21:09:59 [bblfish]: Jan, is that web site going to be up for a little while, so I can mail it to the WebID XG list?
21:10:03 [Simon]: Simon has left #federated
21:10:08 [ciberch]: sure
21:10:22 [evan]: harry: thanks!
21:10:23 [Zakim]: - +1.510.472.aann
21:10:25 [blaine]: thanks!
21:10:25 [evan]: Good meeting!
21:10:26 [cdent]: thanks
21:10:27 [Zakim]: -terraces
21:10:28 [_alexpassant]: thanks !
21:10:32 [harry]: trackbot, end meeting
21:10:32 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
21:10:32 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been +1.301.458.aaaa, jeffsayre, +1.301.848.aabb, +1.253.590.aacc, webr3, MacTed, +1.510.472.aadd, harry, bblfish, dml, terraces,
21:10:32 [ciberch]: ciberch has left #federated
21:10:32 [drenfer]: thanks
21:10:33 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:10:33 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-federated-minutes.html trackbot
21:10:33 [jan_]: we will have the website available at d-cent.org in about a week, after a little bit of qa.
21:10:33 [faborl]: thanks
21:10:34 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
21:10:34 [RRSAgent]: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-federated-actions.rdf :
21:10:34 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: [DONE] hhalpin to setup trackbot [1]
21:10:34 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-federated-irc#T20-32-51
21:10:34 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Evan to put list of SWAT0 on wiki [2]
21:10:34 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-federated-irc#T20-42-40
21:10:34 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: ciberch to then revamp wiki and go over SWAT0 [3]
21:10:34 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-federated-irc#T20-42-53
21:10:35 [jeffsayre]: bye!
21:10:35 [Zakim]: ... +39.525.0.aaee, +43.838.0aaff, +1.734.237.aagg, +39.525.0.aahh, +34.93.183.aaii, zack, hhalpin, +44.207.274.aajj, +1.919.265.aakk, faborl, evan, +81.15.622.aamm, Luca, cdent,
21:10:38 [evan]: _alexpassant: I've actually filled my speaker slots
21:10:38 [bblfish]: jan_, is that web site going to be up for a little while, so I can mail it to the WebID XG list?
21:10:39 [Zakim]: ... eschnou, +1.510.472.aann, +1.215.359.aaoo, thkoch?, jan_, +1.503.928.aapp, blaine, +49.178.448.aaqq
21:10:41 [Zakim]: -Luca
21:10:41 [Zakim]: -evan
21:10:41 [Zakim]: -blaine
21:10:41 [Zakim]: - +1.215.359.aaoo
21:10:42 [Zakim]: - +1.919.265.aakk
21:10:42 [Zakim]: - +81.15.622.aamm
21:10:44 [Zakim]: -zack
21:10:46 [Zakim]: -jan_