IRC log of svg on 2010-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:00:24 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:00:24 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-svg-irc
20:00:26 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:26 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #svg
20:00:28 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:00:29 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM scheduled to start now
20:00:29 [trackbot]: Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:29 [trackbot]: Date: 02 December 2010
20:00:42 [shepazu]: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/astrobiology_toxic_chemical.html
20:00:45 [Zakim]: GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has now started
20:00:52 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
20:00:58 [Zakim]: +??P3
20:01:00 [heycam]: Zakim, ??P3 is me
20:01:00 [Zakim]: +heycam; got it
20:01:25 [tbah]: tbah has joined #svg
20:01:50 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
20:02:00 [ed]: Zakim, [IP is me
20:02:00 [Zakim]: +ed; got it
20:02:02 [pdengler]: pdengler has joined #svg
20:02:18 [heycam]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0186.html
20:02:21 [heycam]: Chair: Cameron
20:02:26 [anthony]: anthony has joined #svg
20:03:16 [Zakim]: +??P5
20:03:51 [anthony]: Zakim, ??P5 is me
20:03:51 [Zakim]: +anthony; got it
20:04:08 [adrianba]: adrianba has joined #svg
20:04:25 [Zakim]: +tav
20:04:48 [adrianba]: Present+ adrianba
20:06:48 [pdengler]: scribeNick: pdengler
20:07:33 [pdengler]: heycam:Topic: SVG 1.2 2nd Edition
20:07:49 [pdengler]: heycam: requires last call comments by 12/15
20:08:11 [pdengler]: heycam: 12/15 is the deadline for asking for publication
20:08:12 [adrianba]: s/1.2/1.1/
20:09:11 [heycam]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Full_11#Remaining_work_for_SVG1.1F2
20:10:04 [pdengler]: heycam: Need to resolve above linked issue and the test suite
20:10:24 [pdengler]: heycam: We could prioritize some of these issues (e.g. improve pass critiera)
20:11:09 [pdengler]: heycam: I've been updating tests and could give a concerted effort to finalize that in the next week; that should make us OK from the test suite perspective
20:11:39 [pdengler]: pdengler: After the test suite, we need to run test suites and fiinalize open issues?
20:11:54 [pdengler]: adrianba: Are you intending to move to CR or Proposed Rec?
20:12:04 [pdengler]: adrianba: You need implementation reports for Proposed Rect
20:12:33 [pdengler]: ed: Our plan was to do proposed rect and have test results
20:12:41 [pdengler]: heycam: How long would it take for folks to run tests?
20:13:02 [pdengler]: ed: It's not much to run through; it's only if we discover we don't have enough passing we're in trouble
20:13:06 [Zakim]: +Shepazu
20:13:14 [Zakim]: -anthony
20:13:20 [pdengler]: heycam: We could drop tests that no one passes.
20:13:21 [ed]: s/proposed rect/proposed REC/
20:13:44 [pdengler]: pdengler: I'd like to consider dropping specific tests on a case by case basis
20:13:45 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
20:13:53 [anthony]: Zakim, [IP is me
20:13:53 [Zakim]: +anthony; got it
20:14:18 [pdengler]: pdengler: But in the interest in time, and the quality of our tests, I support the general thinking
20:14:30 [pdengler]: heycam: It's important to get this done and not have it our charter
20:14:37 [pdengler]: shepazu: It's bogging us down
20:14:42 [adrianba]: s/heycam:Topic:/TOPIC:/
20:15:38 [ChrisL]: ChrisL has joined #svg
20:16:49 [Zakim]: +ChrisL
20:17:02 [pdengler]: heycam: We should consider simplifying the tests that we need to review
20:17:21 [pdengler]: ed: There are issues with particular fonts that need to be installed. It only works with SVG fonts.
20:18:12 [pdengler]: tbah: Does work on Linux on Batik
20:18:34 [pdengler]: heycam: Have you been updating SVG Fonts?
20:18:58 [pdengler]: ed: Yeah, SVG Fonts as fallbacks. But there are instances where the test requires downloading of Fonts
20:19:15 [pdengler]: ChrisL: One of the problem is that you have the right to download them, but not convert them
20:19:27 [pdengler]: heycam: In the webpage we could provide a patch file PNG replacement
20:19:29 [ed]: s/issues with particular fonts that need to be installed./some tests that require particular fonts to be installed, but batik on osx doesn't read those fonts for some reason./
20:19:45 [pdengler]: ChrisL: The problem with that is that you have to regenerate the image each time
20:21:57 [ed]: s/Yeah, SVG Fonts as fallbacks./No, i've just been removing explicit use of Arial systemfonts, then it falls back to "SVGFreeSans, sans-serif"/
20:22:04 [pdengler]: pdengler: So let's run them on Linux
20:22:22 [pdengler]: ed: Pretty sure I generated reference images on both
20:22:27 [pdengler]: heycam: Do you have a list of these tests?
20:22:54 [pdengler]: heycam: If you can come up with a list of them...
20:23:19 [pdengler]: ed: Probably get to them today
20:23:30 [pdengler]: heycam: Then I will run that list on Linux/Batik and see the result
20:23:56 [pdengler]: heycam: Target early next week to be done and will email to let folks know it is ready to run
20:24:30 [pdengler]: pdengler: How many implementations do we have available to run?
20:27:07 [pdengler]: ChrisL: As long as independent verifications can be run by, for example, W3C, that should work
20:29:35 [pdengler]: pdengler: If the tests are ready by the 8th, we can run them quite quickly after that (within a day or two)
20:29:44 [pdengler]: heycam: Eric and I will target these by the 8th then
20:29:55 [pdengler]: ChrisL: I can help with this as well as I have cleared up all of my actions
20:30:19 [pdengler]: heycam: It turns of putting together the implementation report, do we have document filled in?
20:30:33 [pdengler]: anthony: THe implementation report is ready, unless we included new tests
20:30:56 [pdengler]: heycam: In that case on Wednesday if it is finalized I'll ask you to regnereate the template
20:32:59 [pdengler]: ChrisL: We should run any implementations we can find
20:33:11 [pdengler]: Topic: Remaining Issues
20:34:05 [ChrisL]: I got around to all but one of my actions, now closed
20:34:12 [pdengler]: pdengler: Can we put an end date on these
20:34:30 [pdengler]: heycam: Let's get all actions done by end of next week (by next telecon)
20:35:04 [ChrisL]: issue-2346?
20:35:04 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2346 -- Last Call Comment: previous discussion about filterRes -- raised
20:35:04 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2346
20:35:32 [heycam]: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.vmxjwavjgeuyw5@localhost
20:36:37 [pdengler]: ed: I had some progress on 2346 (ablove). I will make the edit to the spec
20:36:44 [pdengler]: ChrisL: Sounds reasonable
20:37:17 [anthony]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Dec/0001.html
20:37:23 [heycam]: Topic: feConvolveMatrix bias property
20:37:43 [ChrisL]: zakim, mute me
20:37:43 [Zakim]: ChrisL should now be muted
20:37:53 [pdengler]: anthony: I sent some details on results and proposed formulas for feConvolveMatrix
20:38:16 [pdengler]: ed: I'd like to see transparent image as well. It's not so interesting when its only opaque images
20:38:30 [pdengler]: anthony: So you would like a PNG with a gradient, masks or transparency?
20:39:05 [pdengler]: anthony: What I did find is that all of the implementaitons vary. I liked the output from Firefox
20:39:23 [pdengler]: anthony: But I made the note that we should settle on something
20:41:08 [pdengler]: ed: The proposal is OK with me as long as there are tests for the transparent images as well?
20:41:25 [pdengler]: anthony: I will create a test similar to the one sent to the list which includes the transparent image
20:41:41 [ed]: s/as well?/as well/
20:42:57 [pdengler]: action: anthony to update the feConvolveMatrix test to include transparent image and upate the spec to clarify the algorithm
20:42:57 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2916 - Update the feConvolveMatrix test to include transparent image and upate the spec to clarify the algorithm [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-12-09].
20:43:23 [pdengler]: heycam: Tav, do you have everything you need to get your actions to get done
20:43:39 [Zakim]: -anthony
20:43:49 [ChrisL]: zakim, unmute me
20:43:49 [Zakim]: ChrisL should no longer be muted
20:43:51 [pdengler]: anthony: I will be working on my action items and have them done by next week
20:44:13 [pdengler]: shepazu: Chris, do you mind working with Tav to get CVS access set up ?
20:44:25 [pdengler]: heycam: If for some reason that doesn't come through in time, we can send patches through email
20:44:57 [ChrisL]: Tav, your cvs access has been asked for. Pat, Sandy's as well
20:45:05 [adrianba]: ACTION-2843?
20:45:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-2843 -- Cyril Concolato to propose new wording for the spec for ISSUE-2368 -- due 2010-09-13 -- OPEN
20:45:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2843
20:46:15 [heycam]: ISSUE-2384?
20:46:15 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2384 -- Order of rx / ry computation for rounded rects -- raised
20:46:15 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2384
20:55:56 [pdengler]: ChrisL: We will get the WOFF fall back fixed by test suite complete
20:56:20 [pdengler]: heycam: There was a test that relied on text metrics that I thought would benefit from an SVG FOnt with a WOFF font
20:57:21 [pdengler]: action: pdengler to Review Issue 2384 and decide if the change to the test and the text is reasonable
20:57:21 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2917 - Review Issue 2384 and decide if the change to the test and the text is reasonable [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-12-09].
20:58:52 [pdengler]: topic : Test suites with red fringing through on tests with same sized shapes
20:59:15 [pdengler]: heycam: I would like to add a stroke so it doesn't appear that they fail (with the red pushing through). Is that OK with Patrick (and others)
20:59:18 [pdengler]: pdengler: Yes
20:59:48 [adrianba]: ACTION-2834?
20:59:48 [trackbot]: ACTION-2834 -- Doug Schepers to clarify section 16.5 Processing order for user interface events relating to problems in ISSUE-2364 -- due 2010-09-10 -- OPEN
20:59:48 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2834
21:01:35 [pdengler]: action: heycam to respond to Cyril on action 2843
21:01:36 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2918 - Respond to Cyril on action 2843 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2010-12-09].
21:03:17 [pdengler]: Topic: getComputedText Length
21:05:06 [pdengler]: pdengler: I am happy with the response that textLength should be taken into account
21:05:15 [ed]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/paths-dom-01-f.svg
21:05:17 [pdengler]: ed: There is a test also on pathLength
21:09:08 [ed]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-dom-01-f.svg
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21:14:15 [pdengler]: <text id="test" font-size="30pt" font-family="Arial" x="20px" y="200px" letter-spacing="5px" textLength="100">Filler Text</text>
21:15:00 [pdengler]: document.getElementById("test").getComputedTextLength();
21:15:54 [Zakim]: -heycam
21:16:03 [pdengler]: ed: My expectation is that getComputedTextLength which would what it thinks that the text length is, but not take into account what the textLength value at all
21:16:14 [pdengler]: ed: But when it renders, it renders into 100
21:16:30 [heycam]: ok right, that makes sense
21:16:54 [heycam]: so then you do get differences in results due to fonts etc.
21:18:12 [pdengler]: adrianba: What's the use case if it is not to return the size of the actual element
21:18:20 [pdengler]: ed: It can differ from what the author expect or what it should be
21:18:48 [heycam]: you could have a test where you give an outrageous value for textLength, and then test that getComputedTextLength returns a different value from .textLength
21:18:48 [heycam]: or you could add svg/woff fonts
21:18:53 [pdengler]: adrianba: My use case is that I can use getComputedTextLength to get the computed text length
21:19:21 [pdengler]: adrianba: Then I can walk up to any other element and so something else to it konwing its size
21:19:45 [pdengler]: adrianba: Regardless of the format or attribute on the element
21:20:06 [pdengler]: ChrisL: If I was doing that, I would do the other way around, I would read the value of the attribute instead
21:20:48 [pdengler]: adrianba: Either way seems right, I just don't know the use case where I asked for getComputedTextLength and get something other than what is drawn
21:21:16 [pdengler]: ed: Using textLength is not that useful since it stretches the text which is behaved differently in all implementation
21:21:18 [Zakim]: +??P3
21:24:44 [pdengler]: pdengler: Ok, we will keep it as is and address it in the next version of the specification.
21:25:05 [pdengler]: shepazu: I raised an issue in SVG 2.0 that includes a font metrics API that is more comprehensive than textLength
21:25:22 [pdengler]: shepazu: Should probably discussed in FX task foce
21:26:48 [pdengler]: topic: Filter spec clarification
21:26:49 [pdengler]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2815
21:30:17 [adrianba]: ACTION-2911?
21:30:17 [trackbot]: ACTION-2911 -- Tavmjong Bah to finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2338 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf -- due 2010-11-25 -- OPEN
21:30:17 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2911
21:31:07 [pdengler]: tbah: I think the clarification is simpler and i have an action for that
21:31:41 [pdengler]: tbah: I'll propose a rewritten section
21:32:41 [pdengler]: Topic: MIME Type Wording Update
21:33:09 [pdengler]: ChrisL: This is all dealt with now and is a non-issue as the WG will recongize the svg/svgz
21:33:47 [adrianba]: rrsagent, make minutes
21:33:47 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-svg-minutes.html adrianba
21:34:23 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
21:34:25 [Zakim]: -ChrisL
21:34:26 [Zakim]: -??P3
21:34:27 [Zakim]: -tav
21:34:29 [Zakim]: -ed
21:34:40 [Zakim]: -Shepazu
21:34:41 [Zakim]: GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has ended
21:34:43 [Zakim]: Attendees were [Microsoft], heycam, [IPcaller], ed, anthony, tav, Shepazu, ChrisL
21:34:45 [adrianba]: rrsagent, make minutes
21:34:45 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-svg-minutes.html adrianba
22:01:13 [heycam]: action-2843?
22:01:13 [trackbot]: ACTION-2843 -- Cyril Concolato to propose new wording for the spec for ISSUE-2368 -- due 2010-09-13 -- OPEN
22:01:13 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2843
22:11:38 [ed]: ok, i've run through the entire testsuite once now
22:11:49 [ed]: all the issues I found are on the wiki
22:11:59 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Full_11#Testsuite_issues
22:31:12 [heycam]: good job
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