13:57:57 RRSAgent has joined #poiwg 13:57:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-irc 13:57:59 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:57:59 Zakim has joined #poiwg 13:58:01 Zakim, this will be 13:58:01 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:58:02 Meeting: Points of Interest Working Group Teleconference 13:58:02 Date: 19 October 2010 13:58:21 zakim, this will be POIWG 13:58:22 ok, matt; I see UW_POI()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 13:59:17 UW_POI()10:00AM has now started 13:59:26 + +39.011.228.aaaa 13:59:39 Zakim, aaaa is marengo 13:59:39 +marengo; got it 13:59:57 Zakim, mute me 13:59:57 sorry, marengo, muting is not permitted when only one person is present 14:00:52 + +1.919.439.aabb 14:01:03 + +1.312.894.aacc 14:01:05 Zakim, mute me 14:01:05 marengo should now be muted 14:01:07 Ronald has joined #poiwg 14:01:09 zakim, code? 14:01:09 the conference code is 76494 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), matt 14:01:51 +Matt 14:01:58 +[IPcaller] 14:02:06 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:02:06 On the phone I see marengo (muted), +1.919.439.aabb, +1.312.894.aacc, Matt, [IPcaller] 14:02:15 zakim, aabb is Andy 14:02:15 +Andy; got it 14:02:27 zakim, aacc is Karl 14:02:27 +Karl; got it 14:02:28 + +3539149aadd 14:02:42 zakim, ipcall is Vinnie 14:02:46 sorry, matt, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcall' 14:02:48 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:02:50 + +44.750.800.aaee 14:02:55 On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, [IPcaller], +3539149aadd, +44.750.800.aaee 14:03:03 zakim, aaee is Gary 14:03:03 +Gary; got it 14:03:11 zakim, ipcaller is Vinnie 14:03:11 +Vinnie; got it 14:03:15 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:03:15 On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie, +3539149aadd, Gary 14:03:44 zakim, vinnie is ipcaller? 14:03:49 zakim, aadd is Vinnie 14:03:50 + +33.4.76.61.aaff 14:03:56 +ipcaller?; got it 14:04:02 +Vinnie; got it 14:04:32 zakim, aaff is Jacques 14:04:32 +Jacques; got it 14:04:37 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:04:37 On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, ipcaller?, Vinnie, Gary, Jacques 14:05:34 +??P36 14:05:40 zakim, ??P36 is danbri 14:05:41 +danbri; got it 14:05:58 zakim, Vinnie is Vinod 14:05:58 +Vinod; got it 14:06:04 Hi, I am in the conference call, but I don't think you can hear me 14:06:13 + +3539149aagg 14:06:19 no we can not ronald 14:06:30 ok, let me try it again 14:06:39 -ipcaller? 14:06:58 zakim, Vinod is Vinnie_Reynolds 14:06:58 +Vinnie_Reynolds; got it 14:07:07 zakim, aagg is Vinod_Hegde 14:07:07 +Vinod_Hegde; got it 14:07:09 Luca has joined #poiwg 14:07:36 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:07:37 On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde 14:08:14 matt-test has joined #poiwg 14:08:22 vinny has joined #poiwg 14:08:33 Karl_ has joined #poiwg 14:08:35 matt-test has left #poiwg 14:08:35 + +1.617.848.aahh 14:08:41 vinod has joined #poiwg 14:08:46 hi 14:08:58 +??P42 14:09:09 zakim, aahh is me 14:09:09 +cperey; got it 14:09:23 zakim, ??p42 is Ronald 14:09:23 +Ronald; got it 14:09:25 ggale has joined #poiwg 14:09:26 zakim, who is here? 14:09:26 On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde, cperey, Ronald 14:09:29 On IRC I see ggale, vinod, Karl_, vinny, Luca, Ronald, Zakim, RRSAgent, lemordan, marengo, matt, cperey, Andy, danbri, trackbot 14:09:47 +??P43 14:09:56 Gary (phone) == ggale(IRC) 14:10:00 zakim, ??p43 is Carl_Reed 14:10:01 +Carl_Reed; got it 14:10:17 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-poiwg/2010Oct/0002 14:10:29 Topic: Roll call 14:10:31 zakim, mute me 14:10:31 Matt should now be muted 14:10:36 Roll call and selection of secretary 14:10:41 zakim, unmute me 14:10:41 Matt should no longer be muted 14:11:00 just to test 14:11:03 Scribe: matt 14:11:15 matt: Please say your name when you start to talk so I can learn names 14:11:17 zakim, mute me 14:11:17 Matt should now be muted 14:11:19 matt: and voices. 14:11:28 Topic: Introductions 14:11:47 Andy: I'm Andy Braun a Director of Technology Strategy at SonyEricsson. 14:11:49 zakim, unmute me 14:11:49 Matt should no longer be muted 14:12:21 zakim, mute em 14:12:21 sorry, matt, I do not know which phone connection belongs to em 14:12:22 zakim, mute me 14:12:22 Matt should now be muted 14:12:35 Zakim, unmute me 14:12:35 marengo should no longer be muted 14:12:36 matt: I'm the team contact for this group. I also do Voice browsing and Geolocation. 14:12:44 q+ 14:13:26 Carl: I'm the CTO of the OGC. I've been working in geospatial technologies since 1969. I'm very interested in anything to do with standards around geospatial services and encodings. 14:13:50 marengo: I'm Marco (and Luca) from Telecom Italia. We're working in research for AR technologies. 14:14:03 Zakim, mute me 14:14:03 marengo should now be muted 14:14:28 Karl: I work at NavTeq, I'm part of a team that does POI systems/descriptions. I'm interested because the business supply chain for POI interchange is getting very long and that drives us down the road of shared descriptions. 14:14:49 Ronald: I'm head of R&D at Layar. Normally Dirk, the CTO would be here as well. We're interested in POI representations and want to contribute to the standards. 14:15:42 rrsagent, pointer? 14:15:42 See http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-irc#T14-15-42 14:15:43 Vinny: Vinny and Vinod from DERI. I'm researching geospatial information in the semantic Web. We're new to the AR area, but we think linked data is important. 14:16:08 Vinod: We're looking at how AR can benefit from linked data. 14:16:11 Carl has joined #poiwg 14:16:34 cperey: Christine Perey, I helped start the W3C AR workshop in Barcelona and just organized a 2 day meeting on AR standards last week. 14:17:00 Jacques: I'm researching a system for indoor/outdoor navigation for blind people. 14:17:04 zakim, who is speaking? 14:17:16 matt, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Vinnie_Reynolds (2%), Gary (99%), Vinod_Hegde (4%) 14:17:47 Gary: Working at Nokia, and prior to that at Yahoo, been working in geospatial for ten years or so. Been working on the place database available at ?? 14:17:50 zakim, unmute me 14:17:50 Matt should no longer be muted 14:17:56 zakim, mute me 14:17:56 Matt should now be muted 14:18:01 s/??/maps.ovi.com/ 14:18:05 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:18:06 On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt (muted), Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde, cperey, Ronald, Carl_Reed 14:18:08 maps.ovi.com ... that's the one 14:18:15 zakim, unmute me 14:18:15 Matt should no longer be muted 14:18:34 zakim, mute me 14:18:34 Matt should now be muted 14:18:49 http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/ 14:19:14 danbri: Working at ?? in Amsterdam. I used to work at W3C. Most of my work is around the Web of Data stuff. I edit the basic geo vocabulary and worked to organize the AR dev camp here a few months ago. 14:19:28 Topic: Administrative 14:19:30 zakim, do you mean you couldn't hear me ? 14:19:30 I don't understand your question, vinny. 14:19:36 (i work at http://www.vu.nl/nl/index.asp) 14:20:11 Andy: (Sorry for the google links, I work in Google docs and it apparently embedded these within the mail) 14:20:12 -marengo 14:20:12 http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/ 14:20:36 -> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=45386&public=1 participants 14:20:55 +marengo 14:21:06 Andy: Probably another 6-8 people who have expressed interest in joining that aren't on there. We'll have more over the next few weeks surely. 14:21:26 Zakim, mute me 14:21:26 marengo should now be muted 14:22:00 Andy: The public email list is: public-poiwg@w3.org -- just to reiterate: all technical discussions should happen on the mailing list. These minutes will be posted to the mailing list. We can either release a draft set of minutes to the member mailing list, give folks 24 hours or so to peruse them and then push them out, or we could just push them to the public list. 14:22:15 Carl_Reed has joined #poiwg 14:22:19 Andy: Quick show of hands? Do you want an opportunity to review the minutes before sending them out, or is it fine to send them out immediately? 14:22:19 i vote for immediately 14:22:25 +1 14:22:30 no opinion 14:22:36 zakim, unmute me 14:22:36 Matt should no longer be muted 14:22:39 +1 for public 14:22:46 +1 14:22:46 +1 for public 14:22:57 zakim, mute me 14:22:57 Matt should now be muted 14:23:04 RESOLUTION: Make minutes public immediately without review. 14:23:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:23:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt 14:23:39 Andy: The member only list we will only use primarily for member-only face to faces. Announcing details of the calls, etc, things we might need not be public. 14:24:07 Andy: I'll put a poll out by tomorrow asking everyone to vote on a call time. I picked this one because it seemed reasonable enough for most people. I'll put a poll up with a few selections and send it to the mailing list. 14:24:19 eu afternoons = NA mornings = good 14:24:38 ACTION: Matt to describe tools 14:24:39 Created ACTION-1 - Describe tools [on Matt Womer - due 2010-10-26]. 14:24:47 zakim, unmute me 14:24:47 Matt should no longer be muted 14:24:49 Topic: Tools 14:25:40 ACTION-1? 14:25:40 ACTION-1 -- Matt Womer to describe tools -- due 2010-10-26 -- OPEN 14:25:40 http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/track/actions/1 14:26:34 marengo_ has joined #poiwg 14:27:03 JonathanJ has joined #poiwg 14:27:05 ISSUE-1? 14:27:05 ISSUE-1 does not exist 14:27:26 close ACTION-1 14:27:26 ACTION-1 Describe tools closed 14:28:30 +??P45 14:29:06 zakim, +??P45 is JonathanJ 14:29:06 sorry, JonathanJ, I do not recognize a party named '+??P45' 14:29:26 zakim, ??P45 is Jonathan 14:29:26 +Jonathan; got it 14:29:35 zakim, who is here? 14:29:35 On the phone I see Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde, cperey, Ronald, Carl_Reed, marengo (muted), Jonathan 14:29:38 On IRC I see JonathanJ, marengo, Carl_Reed, Carl, ggale, vinod, Karl_, vinny, Luca, Ronald, Zakim, RRSAgent, lemordan, matt, cperey, Andy, danbri, trackbot 14:29:46 q+ to show queuing 14:29:48 q- 14:30:03 ack marengo 14:30:21 q+ to say this is how queuing works 14:30:23 q? 14:30:26 Information overload ... is all this documented online somewhere? 14:30:29 ack matt 14:30:29 matt, you wanted to say this is how queuing works 14:30:47 see http://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/Zakim_Tips and nearby 14:30:50 This is deeply cool but head has reached capacity! 14:31:02 -if you find useful things, the wiki is a good place to share 14:31:15 -> http://www.w3.org/Guide/ member guide 14:31:32 Matt, will there be a wiki for this group? 14:32:18 cperey, yes i will bring up next 14:32:45 Or actually prior to Use case discussion 14:32:45 matt: this group is awful 14:32:49 s/awful/great!/ 14:33:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:33:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt 14:33:43 -> http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Main_Page wiki 14:33:50 http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Main_Page 14:36:09 zakim, mute me 14:36:09 Matt should now be muted 14:36:57 Andy: Regarding enforcement of "Good Standing" -- I don't want to get into it, but in general if you want to participate in the WG, you should participate. I don't think we'll enforce much of it. 14:37:00 zakim, unmute me 14:37:00 Matt should no longer be muted 14:37:02 zakim, mute me 14:37:02 Matt should now be muted 14:37:20 agenda? 14:37:21 (imho 'good standing' is more about people making/keeping commitments (not promising too much), rather than 'not putting in enough hours') 14:37:56 Andy: One thing I'll ask for this meeting: does the ten o'clock Boston time work well for people? If we don't have West Coast people maybe 9 am would work? 14:38:03 fine for vinny/vinod in ireland 14:38:06 +1 for Beijing 14:38:11 10 AM east works best for me 14:38:12 Andy: Earlier time is probably more convenient for Asia. 14:38:16 ok for me 14:38:17 at 9 AM Eastern 14:38:19 +1 to keep this timeslot 14:38:20 this is ok for me 14:38:27 ok for me 14:38:37 Unfortunately Tuesday is the only day I have packed full, but other days works for me at this time. 14:38:40 (or any time) 14:38:50 Andy: Feel free to put your comments in IRC, I'll review them before putting out the poll. 14:38:52 frequency? 14:38:54 who cannot do 9 AM Eastern? 14:39:12 weekly 14:39:15 Topic: Tentative Face to Face Dates 14:39:25 Hard for me but Raj Singh would be OK (he is in Boston) 14:39:32 Andy: I need to square away meeting space, but at the moment, I'm looking at December 7 and 8, maybe the 9th. 14:39:38 where ? 14:39:57 Andy: I'm looking at Atlanta, Georgia, US. 14:40:01 7th is bad, 8-9 is OK 14:40:19 what are some of the other locations you are considering? 14:40:20 +1 8-9 14:40:21 Andy: Alex Hill has talked about co-hosting it at Georgia Tech. That would also let us look at some of their projects as a break from the working meeting. 14:40:23 I am in Sydney at OGC TC and then ISO meetings at that time 14:40:35 zakim, unmute me 14:40:35 Matt should no longer be muted 14:41:02 zakim, mute me 14:41:02 Matt should now be muted 14:41:11 -Jonathan 14:41:14 cperey: Have you considered other locations? Maybe Germany or European cities? 14:41:38 i can organise dublin probably 14:41:41 Andy: The only European city I have access to is Copenhagen. That's an option, but getting people to go to Scandinavia in December might be hard. 14:41:46 As the OGC has a great interst in POI as it relates to gazetteer, perhaps we can host an Australia/Asia ad-hoc in Sydney? 14:41:47 ggale has joined #poiwg 14:41:52 +[IPcaller] 14:41:58 cperey: Maybe others on the call can host? 14:42:13 I can certainly look at hosting here in Berlin 14:42:25 Not necessarily the first meeting though 14:42:41 Andy: I'll put my proposal on the member list, let's have that discussion between now and the end of this week. 14:42:49 Is Atlanta the only option for the US? 14:42:50 zakim, unmute me 14:42:50 Matt should no longer be muted 14:43:19 I have a preference for the Bay Area but understand that doesn't work for everyone 14:43:20 ggale I could also manage San Francisco 14:43:48 zakim, mute me 14:43:48 Matt should now be muted 14:43:58 ACTION: Andy to post to member list a call for hosts 14:43:58 Sorry, couldn't find user - Andy 14:44:21 ACTION: Andrew to post to member list a call for hosts 14:44:21 Created ACTION-2 - Post to member list a call for hosts [on Andrew Braun - due 2010-10-26]. 14:44:32 Topic: Use case creation 14:45:11 Andy: Last week at ISMAR Christine put together a meeting of various organizations to discuss AR standards. As a team we came up with three generic AR use cases. Thought it might be worthwhile to walk through those AR use cases. 14:45:12 see http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/Three_Use_Cases.pdf 14:45:48 Would also help if members state briefly on IRC what their prime objectives are for participation on the WG ... ? 14:46:48 Works for me 14:46:54 could also action people to send that as intro message before next week's call 14:47:33 By email OK? 14:48:09 + +1.617.764.aaii 14:48:15 Sorry - need to use correct name tag. Thanks, JonathanJ 14:48:34 cperey: The three use cases were: 1. assisting a user through a process in the real world 2. 'social AR' in essence, though not necessarily shared. user attaches or attributes content to something in the real world 3. a system that supports bi-directional interaction between two or more users with a real-time communication component to it. 14:49:28 feel free to check out the other materials created 14:49:35 Andy: Probably a good first one to walk through would be the 'Guide' use case. It's generic enough for the typical use case of overlaying a wiring diagram over an engine for maintenance work. 14:49:38 the content is aggregated here: http://www.perey.com/ARStandardsMeetingOutputs.html 14:50:09 Andy: the 2nd would be similar to the typical AR browser. Finding a place, investigating a POI, etc. Other thoughts on this one? Are there specific things in POI that we should include? 14:50:11 Luca has joined #poiwg 14:50:21 How familiar is this group with gazetteers? 14:50:40 ditto, please share 14:51:00 zakim, who is speaking? 14:51:11 danbri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andy (4%), Karl (78%), Ronald (10%) 14:51:11 Karl_: Just to state my objectives: the world is suffering a lack of shared descriptions for places of business, etc. 14:51:21 that was not the objective of the AR use cases we developed 14:51:25 Absolutely +1 Carl 14:51:38 Karl_: There have been various attempts at it, but there hasn't been one congealed standard for it, how that helps AR is one obvious stepping stone. 14:52:02 for describing businesses, there is a healthy amount of http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/ data floating around lately 14:52:05 -cperey 14:52:08 ggale: That mirrors my objectives on this. In addition to working out who means what across the multitude of siloed POI data at the moment. 14:52:25 zakim, unmute me 14:52:25 Matt should no longer be muted 14:52:38 I will post links and information on gazetteers to the wiki. Gazetteers in a sense are a shared description of a place. The shared description are done by authorities, such as the UN or NGA 14:52:56 zakim, mute me 14:52:56 Matt should now be muted 14:53:22 Matt: We obviously have non-AR use cases, we just happened to have this stuff from the AR workshop last week. Perhaps an action to start collecting the non-ar use cases. 14:53:56 Andy: Agreed. As Karl said POIs are important to AR. If we have a single description of business etc then we want to make sure it fits the AR use cases as well. The fact that we had some AR work done already made it a good discussion point. 14:53:59 zakim, unmute me 14:53:59 Matt should no longer be muted 14:54:18 rajsingh has joined #poiwg 14:54:45 +cperey 14:54:56 Karl: Between myself and Gary we can come up with the most common use cases for business listings. Facilitates search, and navigation. 14:54:58 Carl ... want to set up a call on this and discuss before next WG call? 14:55:12 Me == gary.gale@nokia.com 14:55:22 ACTION: Karl to write up some 'non-AR' use cases for POI data format 14:55:23 Created ACTION-3 - Write up some 'non-AR' use cases for POI data format [on Karl Seiler - due 2010-10-26]. 14:55:27 zakim, mute me 14:55:27 Matt should now be muted 14:55:38 karl.seiler@navteq.com 14:56:00 Yes, good to have POI use cases independent of AR - AR is just one class of apps that can utilize POI 14:56:16 zakim, unmute me 14:56:16 Matt should no longer be muted 14:56:31 +1 to Matt's suggestion 14:56:36 q+ to mention feedback from a colleague, "Why are they only doing points?" / do we literally mean lat/long *points*, or rather, entities of interest? 14:57:01 ack danbri 14:57:01 danbri, you wanted to mention feedback from a colleague, "Why are they only doing points?" / do we literally mean lat/long *points*, or rather, entities of interest? 14:57:08 zakim, mute me 14:57:08 Matt should now be muted 14:57:53 danbri: I mentioned the group to a colleague who is doing some work on geodata in Somalia. He took a very precise reading of the word "points" -- x, y coordinates. I took it to mean entities of interest, and a signal to the world that we're starting basic and building up. 14:58:14 danbri: We're going to start with things and attach properties rather than try to reinvent GML. 14:58:28 who is speaking? Carl? 14:58:55 Karl: I'd love for us to discuss the scope of things we're trying to describe. One thing is locations: points, locations, geofenced things, etc. Not to be confused with places of interest, which can have multiple locations, a building that has a name, etc. 14:58:59 zakim, unmute me 14:58:59 Matt should no longer be muted 14:59:06 There is an ISO definition for "point" in ISO 19107. 14:59:23 I like that! 14:59:26 zakim, mute me 14:59:26 Matt should now be muted 14:59:39 Karl: What Gary was alluding to was what's the core-shared common set of descriptions of a business. 14:59:44 but an entity of interest could be a person, or a car or an object which is not fixed in space 14:59:52 Karl_: I rankle at the word business, many of them aren't businesses. 15:00:34 I second Christine's point about people 15:00:57 Gary: We need to understand a few different pieces of terminology: places, points, ??-oids. Unless we lock this down at an early stage there will be bedlam from people inferring things. 15:01:01 q+ to give brief description of gazetteer 15:01:05 q+ to suggest a terminology wiki page 15:01:13 zakim, unmute me 15:01:13 Matt should no longer be muted 15:01:14 In fact this is why I think some use cases are important to see what scenarios need to be covered by the spec. 15:01:29 ack carl 15:01:29 Carl_Reed, you wanted to give brief description of gazetteer 15:01:38 zakim, mute me 15:01:39 Matt should now be muted 15:01:58 Carl: I think it might be useful to look at what's been done in gazetteer -- these have been used for quite a long time in GIS and related industries. 15:02:05 back in the summer I posted a list of kinda 'test cases', http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2010Aug/0031.html ... list of potential 'things that we might consider POIs'; in Karl's sense, these are places (unbounded), not just locations. 15:02:13 zakim, mute me 15:02:19 Andy should now be muted 15:02:34 Carl: Also in mobile LBS. Also known as yellow pages. They're collections of entities of interest. Landmarks, cities, towns, roadcrossings, etc. They'll have some sort of coordinate to specify the location on the earth along with a set of properties. 15:03:01 q+ ??-oids was a reference to centroids 15:03:02 Carl: There are some really large gazetteers out there already. ?? maintains one with 2 million points. Many nav companies have these, may not call them gazetteers. 15:03:11 s/??-oids/centroids/ 15:03:26 Karl with a K, do you have a gazetteers 15:03:26 Carl: At OGC we're doing a standardized interface for these. 15:03:38 zakim, unmute me 15:03:40 q? 15:03:43 Matt should no longer be muted 15:03:46 ack matt 15:03:46 q+ to ask re types/categories in gazetteer world 15:03:47 matt, you wanted to suggest a terminology wiki page 15:04:06 what about the terminology which we began in Seoul? 15:04:23 ACTION: ggale to start terminology page on POI wiki 15:04:23 Created ACTION-4 - Start terminology page on POI wiki [on Gary Gale - due 2010-10-26]. 15:04:28 zakim, mute me 15:04:28 Matt should now be muted 15:04:28 Luca has joined #poiwg 15:04:29 q? 15:04:34 what sort of terminology will be included? 15:04:42 q+ categories 15:04:46 ack danbri 15:04:46 danbri, you wanted to ask re types/categories in gazetteer world 15:04:50 For all things geospatial, ISO TC 211 maintains a public terms and definitions application. The OGC and ISO communities have developed these terms and definitions. 15:04:51 danbri: To what extent do gazetteers have common types, categories, etc? 15:05:17 cperey this may be different as it POI while that was heavily AR 15:05:22 Karl_: Obviously from the nav side of the business we have a number of them with tens-going-on-hundreds of millions of places in them. We really struggle with categorization. 15:05:38 Karl_: We have our own plus have to pay homage to @@ and ?? standards. 15:05:40 "we really struggle with the issue of categorisation ... one one hand, easy to use hierarch system, on other paying homage to [missed] standards" 15:05:43 s/it POI/it is POI/ 15:06:02 RRSagent, draft minutes 15:06:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html Andy 15:06:05 Karl_: We've been wrestling with this for quite a while. 15:06:08 (btw I heard at .nl GeoNovum meeting last week that W3C SKOS is getting used more and more for code lists in Geo) 15:06:09 I think a terminology developed by this WG should contain concepts and terms which are useful to both 15:06:18 zakim, unmute me 15:06:18 Matt should no longer be muted 15:06:34 s/@@/NAICS/ 15:06:39 http://www.census.gov/eos/www/naics/ 15:06:44