14:53:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
14:53:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-prov-xg-irc
14:53:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:53:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov-xg
14:53:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
14:53:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:53:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
14:53:28 <trackbot> Date: 03 September 2010
14:53:41 <Luc> Zakim, this will be inc_provxg
14:53:41 <Zakim> ok, Luc, I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM already started
14:54:26 <Zakim> +??P9
14:54:28 <Luc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Sep/0000.html
14:54:33 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov-xg
14:54:37 <Luc>  chair: Yolanda Gil
14:54:45 <Luc> Scribe: Luc Moreau
14:54:51 <Luc> ScribeNick: Luc
14:54:57 <Luc>  rrsagent, make logs public
14:55:06 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
14:55:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see [ISI], ??P9
14:55:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, YolandaGil, trackbot
14:56:08 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa
14:56:40 <Luc> +44.238.059.aaaa is Luc
14:56:55 <Luc> zakim,  +44.238.059.aaaa is Luc
14:56:55 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
14:57:10 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
14:57:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see [ISI], ??P9, Luc
14:57:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, YolandaGil, trackbot
14:57:28 <pgroth> zakim, ??P9 is pgroth
14:57:28 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
14:58:44 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov-xg
14:58:52 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov-xg
14:59:04 <Zakim> +??P1
14:59:13 <smiles> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:59:16 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
14:59:32 <Zakim> + +1.619.524.aabb
15:01:29 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
15:01:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see [ISI], pgroth, Luc, smiles, +1.619.524.aabb
15:01:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see SamCoppens, smiles, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, YolandaGil, trackbot
15:01:37 <Zakim> +Irini
15:01:39 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov-xg
15:01:49 <jun> jun has joined #prov-xg
15:01:55 <Zakim> +??P5
15:01:56 <Luc> zakim, agenda?
15:01:57 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:02:02 <jun> zakim, ??P5 is jun
15:02:02 <Zakim> +jun; got it
15:02:27 <Zakim> + +1.706.461.aacc
15:02:29 <Zakim> +??P12
15:02:33 <DGarijo> DGarijo has joined #prov-xg
15:02:41 <Zakim> +??P13
15:02:53 <Paolo> zakim, ??P13 is paolo
15:02:53 <Zakim> +paolo; got it
15:03:02 <Irini> Irini has joined #prov-xg
15:03:14 <Jose_> Jose_ has joined #prov-xg
15:03:19 <Zakim> +??P17
15:03:21 <JimM> JimM has joined #prov-xg
15:03:36 <Zakim> + +46.6.43.0.aadd
15:03:52 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:14 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov-xg
15:04:15 <Zakim> -??P12
15:04:22 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
15:04:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see [ISI], pgroth, Luc, smiles, +1.619.524.aabb, Irini, jun, +1.706.461.aacc, paolo (muted), ??P17, +46.6.43.0.aadd, [IPcaller]
15:04:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcheney, JimM, Jose_, Irini, DGarijo, jun, Paolo, SamCoppens, smiles, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, YolandaGil, trackbot
15:04:25 <DGarijo> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:04:25 <Zakim> +DGarijo; got it
15:04:39 <Zakim> +??P12
15:05:07 <Luc> 1. Review what we have accomplished so far
15:05:27 <Luc> 2. Wish list of what we would like to do as a group
15:05:37 <Luc> 3. Options for the remainder of xg live
15:05:50 <Luc> 4. Who does what?
15:06:08 <Zakim> +??P25
15:06:18 <jcheney> zakim, ??25 is me
15:06:18 <Zakim> sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named '??25'
15:06:25 <jcheney> zakim, ??P25 is me
15:06:25 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
15:06:30 <Luc> 4. ... and what options they would prefer
15:06:34 <Zakim> -??P12
15:07:42 <Luc> 44 people in the group, and still growing!
15:08:11 <Luc> Thanks to some very strong contributors!
15:08:45 <JimM> +1!
15:08:56 <Zakim> +??P26
15:08:59 <Luc> Not a good representation from industry, except a few exceptions. Need to keep this in mind.
15:09:23 <Luc> We collected use cases for provenance, identified dimensions for provenance.
15:09:39 <Luc> Lead to user and technical requirements.
15:10:08 <Luc> Requirement document released a while back.
15:10:23 <Luc> Contribution to "RDF next steps"
15:11:08 <Luc> Mapping on provenance vocabularies
15:11:43 <Luc> s/on/of/
15:12:09 <Luc> Indexed provenance literature on Mendeley
15:12:22 <SamCoppens> zakim, [??p26] is me
15:12:22 <Zakim> sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '[??p26]'
15:12:46 <Luc> Three scenarios were elaborated, and gaps identified
15:12:54 <SamCoppens> zakim, [??P26] is me
15:12:54 <Zakim> sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '[??P26]'
15:13:09 <SamCoppens> zakim, ??P26 is me
15:13:09 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
15:13:32 <Luc> State of the art report drafted, and to be completed in coming fortnight
15:14:30 <Luc> We starting to have a good shared understanding of provenance.
15:15:11 <Luc> Wish list of things to be done:
15:16:07 <Luc> yolanda: leave bibliography collection in a good state, and linked to state of the art report
15:16:29 <smiles> +q
15:16:36 <Luc> yolanda: nice diagrams for news aggregator. Could we have similar diagrams for the other scenarios?
15:17:13 <Luc> yolanda: write a roadmap report, including a set of recommendations
15:17:49 <ssahoo2> ssahoo2 has joined #prov-xg
15:17:52 <Luc> yolanda: think about role of provenance in the web architecture
15:18:12 <Luc> yolanda: in report, include provenance vocabulary mapping
15:18:46 <Zakim> - +1.619.524.aabb
15:18:56 <pgroth> we used powerpoint
15:19:28 <jcheney> +q
15:19:44 <YolandaGil> ack smiles
15:19:45 <smiles> q-
15:20:28 <Paolo_> Paolo_ has joined #prov-xg
15:20:42 <Luc> jcheney: describing provenance information for static things vs dynamic things
15:20:46 <Paolo_> q+
15:21:00 <Luc> jcheney: what is the length of the final report?
15:21:31 <Luc> jcheney: if we want something to happen, a short document may be the most effective
15:21:34 <jcheney> q-
15:23:01 <Luc> yolanda: let's try to keep it short and sweet!
15:23:34 <Luc> yolanda: 3 major sections: requirements, state of the art, roadmap
15:23:39 <Luc> q+
15:24:16 <Luc> paolo: have a set of slides with the report
15:24:25 <pgroth> +1
15:24:40 <pgroth> also would be nice to have it look good :-) nice pictures
15:25:03 <DGarijo> +1
15:25:22 <YolandaGil> ack Paolo_
15:25:22 <Paolo_> ack
15:25:40 <Luc> luc: definition of provenance?
15:26:04 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/What_Is_Provenance
15:26:22 <DGarijo> +q
15:26:32 <YolandaGil> ack Luc
15:27:14 <Luc> DGarijo: prototype example on how to do the mapping
15:27:41 <Luc> yolanda: is it in the remit of this group?
15:27:42 <ssahoo2> q+
15:28:21 <YolandaGil> ack DGarijo
15:28:21 <DGarijo> -q
15:28:31 <jcheney> re implementing the mappings: could this be a recommendation for the final report, rather than something we do (it may take more than a month)
15:29:06 <Luc> +1
15:29:37 <Jose_> agree
15:30:04 <ssahoo2> -q
15:30:28 <pgroth> +q
15:30:49 <Luc> yolanda: get more traction from other w3c groups, especially if we recommend further activities
15:31:06 <Paolo_> q+
15:31:18 <Luc> paul: try to get endorsement from other groups, when we have recommendations drafted
15:31:48 <Jose_> q+
15:31:55 <Luc> yolanda: what should come first?, outreach or recommendations?
15:32:25 <pgroth> q-
15:32:36 <Luc> yolanda: use outreach to refine initial set of recommendations
15:32:37 <YolandaGil> ack Paolo_
15:33:07 <Paolo_> ack
15:35:48 <YolandaGil> ack Jose_
15:35:53 <Luc> yolanda: we will compete against other w3c undertakings, e.g. next versions of http, rdf, etc. Finite resources are w3c.  Need for community support, coherence, and leadership.
15:37:41 <Luc> next item: 3. Next options at this point
15:38:05 <Luc> 4 possibilities to be discussed
15:38:56 <Luc> 1. we finalize by Sep 21st.  This may imply we don't complete some activities.
15:40:20 <Luc> 2. In principle agreement by w3c to extend the current charter by 2-3 months if we wish
15:40:52 <Jose_> For the wishlist record: might be interesting to consider the establishment of a provenance technology observatory bound to the group. Would need to see how this can be done.
15:41:22 <Luc> 3. Wrap up what we have at this point, and write a charter for a follow-on group.
15:42:14 <Luc> This would be a follow-on incubator.
15:42:31 <Luc> 4. Recommend the creation of a working group.
15:42:49 <Luc> Options 1 to 4 are not mutually exclusive.
15:44:42 <Luc> Next item in agenda, what do people prefer? what can they contribute?
15:44:55 <jun> q+
15:46:31 <YolandaGil> ack jun
15:47:27 <Luc> Daniel: volunteers to do more work! preference for option 2 and decide in that time what to do next 
15:47:57 <Luc> irini: option 2, clean up what we have, and think about next activity
15:48:24 <Luc> james: option 2, and figure out what we do next
15:50:35 <Luc> james: there are more aspects related to provenance that may need to be taken into account later, e.g. provenance in rdf, though not ready for standardization yet
15:53:14 <Luc> JimM: would like a future activity to standardize on a core of provenance. We should think about what this core is. 
15:54:06 <Luc> jose: understand how our recommendations can have an impact on w3c
15:56:40 <Luc> Jun: happy with option 2 and put work into the documents
15:56:57 <Luc> Luc: option 2, and prepare for option 4 during this period
15:58:21 <Luc> Paolo: option 2 + also reachout. Option 4 shoud focus on a core to be realistic, need someone to lead.
15:58:51 <Luc> Paolo: funding to support that follow-on activity?
15:59:16 <jcheney> @Paolo: in UK: maybe reach out to Web Science trust for support?  http://webscience.org/home.html
16:00:08 <Luc> Paolo: use the provenance workshop at ISWC to report on group activities
16:01:56 <ssahoo2> SWPM10 wokshop link: http://wiki.knoesis.org/index.php/SWPM-2010
16:01:56 <Luc> Paul: doesn't mind small extension (e.g. option 2)
16:02:46 <Paolo_> @James (and Luc and Jun...) -- yes. maybe we can brainstorm separately on funding options for this?
16:03:04 <Luc> paul: if we have agreement on a data model, it would be worthwile to have a precise, focused charter for standardizing a data model (short duration, 1 year)
16:03:44 <Luc> sam: would be good to agree on a core
16:05:43 <jun> @Paolo(and James and Luc): it sounds a good idea
16:05:50 <Luc> Simon: support for option 2 + need for a working group to standardize
16:06:40 <Luc> Satya: option 2, use extension time to think about WG charter. Volunteers time to new activities
16:07:37 <Luc> Yolanda: seems there is support for option 2, and do a proper job at putting forward recommendations
16:07:55 <pgroth> november
16:08:02 <Luc> Action yolanda extend lifetime of incubator
16:08:02 <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: No child element named 'id') - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
16:08:37 <Luc> End of november: december too hectic month
16:09:11 <Luc> I must go in a few minutes, can someone finish minutes, and close down robot?
16:09:13 <jcheney> +q
16:10:09 <ssahoo2> +1 for december, I have to leave now
16:10:25 <Luc> I am leaving now, sorry.
16:10:28 <Irini> +1 for james
16:10:39 <Zakim> - +1.706.461.aacc
16:10:40 <Zakim> -Luc
16:11:27 <pgroth> +q
16:12:22 <jcheney> -q
16:12:59 <pgroth> q-
16:15:21 <Zakim> -pgroth
16:15:23 <Zakim> -Irini
16:15:24 <Zakim> -[ISI]
16:15:25 <Zakim> -paolo
16:15:26 <Zakim> -??P17
16:15:26 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:15:27 <Zakim> -jun
16:15:27 <Zakim> -DGarijo
16:15:28 <Zakim> -smiles
16:15:30 <Zakim> - +46.6.43.0.aadd
16:16:05 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
16:16:06 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has ended
16:16:08 <Zakim> Attendees were [ISI], Luc, pgroth, smiles, +1.619.524.aabb, Irini, jun, +1.706.461.aacc, paolo, +46.6.43.0.aadd, DGarijo, jcheney, SamCoppens
16:19:17 <YolandaGil> rrsagent, set log public
16:19:23 <YolandaGil> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:19:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-prov-xg-minutes.html YolandaGil
16:20:00 <YolandaGil> We agreed that we should extend the group's life until mid-December
16:20:19 <YolandaGil> We should start thinking about what recommendations to make, let's discuss that at next week's telecon
16:20:46 <YolandaGil> trackbot, end telcon
16:20:46 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:20:46 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:20:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:20:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-prov-xg-minutes.html trackbot
16:20:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:20:48 <RRSAgent> I see no action items