15:02:33 RRSAgent has joined #swxg 15:02:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc 15:02:35 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:02:35 Zakim has joined #swxg 15:02:37 Zakim, this will be 7994 15:02:37 ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago 15:02:38 Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference 15:02:38 Date: 25 August 2010 15:02:41 Zakim, this is 7994 15:02:41 ok, MacTed; that matches INC_SWXG()11:00AM 15:02:45 Zakim, who's here? 15:02:45 On the phone I see OpenLink_Software 15:02:46 On IRC I see RRSAgent, cperey, mischat, caribou, FabGandon, MacTed, oshani, karl, tinkster, danbri, tlr, AlexPassant, trackbot 15:02:54 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:02:54 +MacTed; got it 15:02:58 LAME ! 15:03:06 can't connect to the UK bridge 15:03:12 Zakim, what's the code? 15:03:12 the conference code is 7994 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MacTed 15:03:28 "all circuits are busy now" 15:03:31 mischat - using that number? (which I hope is the new/current one) 15:03:37 yeah 15:03:53 + +1.617.848.aaaa 15:03:54 special. 15:04:07 Zakim aaaa is me 15:04:16 Zakim, aaa is me 15:04:16 sorry, cperey, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa' 15:04:35 well, tough! 15:04:41 Zakim, aaaa is cperey 15:04:41 +cperey; got it 15:04:43 :-) 15:04:49 thank you! 15:06:03 cperey will need to leave by 17h30 15:06:59 +??P3 15:07:19 me! 15:07:27 Zakim, who's here? 15:07:27 On the phone I see MacTed, cperey, ??P3 15:07:28 On IRC I see RRSAgent, cperey, mischat, caribou, FabGandon, MacTed, oshani, karl, tinkster, danbri, tlr, AlexPassant, trackbot 15:07:41 hhalpin has joined #swxg 15:07:54 trackbot, start meeting 15:07:56 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:07:58 Zakim, this will be 7994 15:07:58 ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago 15:07:59 Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference 15:07:59 Date: 25 August 2010 15:08:09 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:08:09 I notice INC_SWXG()11:00AM has restarted 15:08:10 On the phone I see MacTed, cperey, ??P3 15:08:12 +[Garlik] 15:08:22 + +33.1.72.33.aabb 15:08:28 chair: hhalpin 15:08:35 zakim, Garlik is temporarily me 15:08:35 +mischat; got it 15:08:36 Zakim, who's pick a scribe 15:08:36 I don't understand 'who's pick a scribe', hhalpin 15:08:42 zakim, mute me 15:08:42 mischat should now be muted 15:08:42 Zakim, pick a scribe 15:08:43 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +33.1.72.33.aabb 15:08:53 Alexandre? 15:08:55 might be me 15:08:56 Fabien? 15:08:58 not sure, I'm on skype 15:09:06 scribe? 15:09:09 well, skype from ireland so that might not be me :) 15:09:14 have to leave at 5 but yes I can 15:09:36 Zakim, ??33.1.72.33.aabb is me 15:09:36 sorry, AlexPassant, I do not recognize a party named '??33.1.72.33.aabb' 15:09:41 Zakim, ?33.1.72.33.aabb is me 15:09:41 sorry, AlexPassant, I do not recognize a party named '?33.1.72.33.aabb' 15:09:46 Zakim, aabb is AlexPassant 15:09:46 +AlexPassant; got it 15:09:47 PROPOSED: to approve minutes from August 18th meeting. 15:10:06 hhalpin: W3C looking closely in the identity space 15:10:10 http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-swxg-minutes.html 15:10:25 ... one curent item on WebID / OpenID and next updates 15:10:31 The next telecon is David Recordon and Dick Hardt. 15:10:43 maybe 15:11:09 ... Renato would be interesting in meeting 1h ahead 15:11:14 ... if people interested and want to chat 15:11:17 http://odrl.net/ 15:11:27 +1 to meeting 1h ahead 15:11:32 ... policy language group 15:11:38 ... looking at ODRL and RIF 15:11:47 mega-meeting 15:11:53 ... hold a mega-meeting next week around these topics 15:11:56 over ODRL and OpenID/WebID/OpenID Connect 15:12:01 ... openID, webID, OpenID connect, etc 15:12:04 +1 interested 15:12:38 APPROVED: Meeting next week 1 hour early, staying for 2 hours, over ODRL and ID efforts 15:12:49 +1 15:12:53 +1 15:13:06 APPROVED: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-swxg-minutes.html as the true meeting minutes of August 18th 15:13:28 ... action items 15:13:49 ... geographical maps of the Social Web landscape 15:14:02 cperey: not seen any 15:14:11 ... work about diversity 15:14:19 ... many smaller networks are no longer active 15:14:29 ... caused by the adoption of larger networks 15:14:37 ... landscape still very rich in certain geographies 15:14:43 ... but not sure of source we can cite 15:15:05 http://www.ignitesocialmedia.com/2009-social-network-analysis-report/ 15:15:08 ^^ 15:15:18 hhalpin: ^^ 15:15:21 there's a ICWSM2010 paper by Facebook on facebook demography 15:15:57 zakim, unmute me 15:15:57 mischat should no longer be muted 15:15:59 cperey: social network in china 15:16:03 ... or western europe, etc. 15:16:27 Zakim, mute me 15:16:27 mischat should now be muted 15:16:33 http://www.aaai.org/ocs/index.php/ICWSM/ICWSM10/paper/view/1534 15:16:44 ePluribus: Ethnicity on Social Networks 15:16:56 http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/facebook.com 15:17:03 Zakim: unmute me 15:17:10 zakim, unmute me 15:17:10 mischat should no longer be muted 15:17:35 check picture 2 on the pdf I've sent as well 15:17:55 http://www.paulmc.org/whatithink/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/social_map.png 15:18:16 http://cdn.mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TheGeoSocialUniversev2_JESS3-640.jpg 15:18:21 melvin's link ^^ 15:18:41 i.e. orkut in iran and brazil 15:18:45 cperey: other networks deepely adopted in some geographies 15:19:34 ... do we need to argue if skype is social network ? 15:20:10 Zakim, mute me 15:20:10 sorry, hhalpin, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:20:37 hhalpin: definion of the social web 15:20:47 MacTed: said that it goes beyond HTTP and the browser 15:20:58 ... but dont think that having an email makes someone part of a social network 15:21:12 ... e.g. no way of friending anyone in the google network 15:21:46 "Social platforms refers to the total environment in which the user can interact with their social connections and social media, publish social media, and use social applications. It is a collection or group of features that can be used by a social application. The social platform is often centered on a Web site available over the Web, and one type of social platform is a social networking site. A social platform is analogous to Facebook or LinkedIn social n 15:21:46 etworking sites, but also may managed locally by the user (perhaps via their browser), or a combination of the two alternatives. " 15:22:12 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport#The_Terminology 15:23:13 http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/zCBPI/hash/d3fsv5it.gif 15:23:24 facebook's places logo looks like a 4 in a square 15:23:30 t 15:23:54 hhalpin: reason is that we want to separate applications from providers (data, profiles, etc.) 15:24:01 +1 with what Harry is saying 15:24:07 ... apps, broswers, 15:24:14 ... is there something better ? 15:24:36 cperey: about to redesign things that already exist 15:24:52 hhalpin: try to address the social service concept 15:25:03 "Social Applications are functions of a social platform. Examples of social applications include real-time messaging, a community game, vCard import function, and a travel tracking feature. One possible social application is the management of a user’s profile (see the distributed profile figure). Social applications may be bound to a particular social platform (Facebook and FBXML) or capable of running across multiple social platforms (OpenSocial). Note th 15:25:03 at the difference between a social platform and a social applicatin is often fuzzy, as some platforms do not allow third-party applications, and some platforms are indistinguishable from their applications. " 15:25:17 cperey: social application concept is about what a social platfor enables 15:25:20 social application ?= social platform? 15:25:26 social application ?= social services? 15:25:36 another term? 15:25:52 mischat: concerned by social platforms 15:25:58 ... need several serices to be a platform 15:26:01 s/mischat/MacTed/ 15:26:12 The Web as a platform is kinda of the W3C logo... 15:26:23 HTML5, for example... 15:26:40 cperey: services tend to be inherent in the network 15:26:46 ... authentication, financial services, etc. 15:27:18 The Web is defined is as a space of URI. 15:27:23 mailto:, xmpp: 15:27:26 that sort of thing. 15:28:17 melvster has joined #swxg 15:28:20 Web=URIs 15:28:31 URI space, "Social Web" 15:28:32 sorry im late, dialing in 15:28:50 I'm glad that people are thinking about terminology 15:29:00 but it feels like january 2010 all over again 15:29:05 +[IPcaller] 15:29:09 We had at least one meeting about ths!! 15:29:09 Social Web is OK to me 15:29:10 hhalpin: relabelling ? changing definition ? 15:29:12 yes, I agree 15:29:21 zakim, [IPcaller] is me 15:29:21 +melvster; got it 15:30:01 I just know (from experience) that there is baggage wtih many of the options!!!! 15:30:24 ACTION: DKA Shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases. 15:30:24 Created ACTION-167 - Shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2010-09-01]. 15:30:26 on the FSWS site 15:30:34 http://federatedsocialweb.net/wiki/SWAT0 15:30:49 http://federatedsocialweb.net/wiki/SWAT0 15:30:52 I think so yes 15:30:55 that is the most updated? 15:31:07 hhalpin: SWAT website 15:31:13 http://federatedsocialweb.net/wiki/SWAT0_-_strawman_protocol_flow 15:31:15 ... not specified 15:31:21 if that's the latest - Evan... 15:31:48 ACTION: [DONE] thibodue Write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report 15:31:48 Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE] 15:32:01 http://www.slideshare.net/factoryjoe/swat0-variant-flow 15:32:02 ? 15:32:05 [DONE] ACTION: For diaspora to talk about being included in final report (interoperable code-basess agreed to SWAT tests?). 15:32:05 hhalpin: diaspora people will send some updates 15:32:49 nope 15:32:51 tomorrow :) 15:33:03 nope 15:33:06 sorry, will do it 15:33:09 will mail the list 15:33:22 yup, was planning to do it today, but that didn't happen 15:33:30 [DONE] ACTION: bblfish and mischa to write a new introductory paragraph with definition of social web and case for open-source/business use of standards. 15:33:34 MacTed: no progress on user stories 15:33:36 i also need to also populdate the privacy technology section 15:33:38 [CONTINUES] ACTION: bblfish and mischa to write a new introductory paragraph with definition of social web and case for open-source/business use of standards. 15:33:55 done 15:34:08 [DONE] ACTION: apassant Flesh out profile standards 15:35:13 mischat: will provide input on profile standards 15:35:21 ... XRDS, etc. 15:35:37 hhalpin: will try to work on it next week 15:35:40 ... for more public review 15:35:50 ... cperey : feeling on giving a mobile-centric view on the report 15:35:53 ... or some section 15:36:02 cperey: claudio wanted to contributed that 15:36:10 ... sent emails about that 15:36:15 ... replying with suggestions 15:36:39 q+ 15:37:29 [DONE] ACTION: hhalpin to pring richard ishida over accessibility 15:37:32 ack misschat 15:37:55 ACTION: venezia to do mobile paragraph 15:37:55 Sorry, couldn't find user - venezia 15:38:04 mischat: wasnt a big section on decentrlised networks 15:38:08 ... will try to work on it 15:38:13 cperey: very much needed 15:38:21 ... reflect what we're thinking about 15:38:31 henry asked me to pass on regrets 15:38:55 ah :) 15:38:58 nice one toby 15:39:03 W3C is interested in the identity space... 15:39:18 openid is a nightmare to code ! 15:39:26 hhalpin: WebID consolitating 15:39:33 ... not sure about the status of InfoCards 15:41:03 positive on WebID 15:41:23 I'm thinking that there remains a lot of controversy on Web ID 15:41:28 +1 15:41:57 a WebID is simply a foaf:Person 15:42:08 sorry guys, I need to sign off for today... sounds like this is really coming together, looking forwad to seeing/reading the final report 15:42:17 bye cperey 15:42:23 -cperey 15:42:49 mischat: no real comment, probably henry and melvster can check 15:42:57 hhalpin: one pinpoint of OpenID is that its' too complicated 15:43:01 ... WebID sounds simplier 15:43:09 ... but binding of the cert to the device is a non starter 15:43:17 http://www.links.org/files/nigori-protocol.html 15:43:27 ... chat offline about it 15:43:35 ... issue is sharing secret key 15:43:51 mischat: apple does something similar 15:43:54 ... with MobileMe 15:44:02 MobileMe...hmm... 15:44:02 ... gives the facility to backup machines 15:44:08 ... everything encrypted 15:44:11 ... GPG type 15:44:20 ... 3rd party service with authentication w. username / pass 15:44:29 ... they store they key to encrypt the data in the cloud 15:45:00 ... as an individual, you dont have to deal with the keys 15:45:20 like tor stuff i guess 15:45:56 yeah sure 15:47:38 +1 to that if it can be pulled off 15:47:40 +1 15:48:24 OStatus and SWAT 15:48:57 What Evan thought people about moving OStatus to move to W3C.... 15:49:41 http://www.w3.org/2010/07/community 15:49:46 yeah 15:50:25 nice 15:51:04 melvster: ? 15:51:12 hhalpin: W3C and Open Foundation re. standards 15:51:17 Would love to see OStatus under W3C as royalty free 15:51:53 http://status.net/wiki/Semantic_OMB (done at the time of OMB) 15:51:57 OStatus already mentions FOAF in its spec 15:52:11 yay, +1 to melvster 's efforts? 15:52:11 I've put that few months ago, need to restart working on it 15:52:23 +1 to that 15:52:26 would be happy to work on that - and have them in W3c 15:52:27 so +1 15:52:54 mmm 15:52:57 the report is public 15:53:10 ACTION: work on the strategy document 15:53:10 Sorry, couldn't find user - work 15:53:12 ok 15:53:18 ACTION: hhalpin work on the strategy document 15:53:18 Created ACTION-168 - Work on the strategy document [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-09-01]. 15:54:24 which guys mischat ? 15:54:32 thx 15:54:37 http://www.movim.eu/ 15:54:38 movim.eu they were part of GNU Social at one stage ... 15:54:49 http://wiki.movim.eu/index.php?title=Utilisateur:Grirgz/Movim_Colocation 15:55:14 mischat: there might be some code here 15:55:59 The group would like to thank the following people who we consulted with over the lifetime of the Social Web Incubator Group in order to make this final report: Robin Berjon, Tim Berners-Lee, Joseph Bonneau, Marcos Caceres, Michael Cooper, Sam Critchley, Anita Doehler, Nathan Eagle, Kaliya Hamlin, Dick Hardt, Eran Hammer-Lahav, Yolanda Gil, Paul Groth, Lalana Kagal, Ros Lawler, Matt Lee, Chris Messina, Soren Preisbusch, Evan Prodromou, David Raggett, David R 15:55:59 ecordon, Gregory Rosmaita, Janina Sajka, Luke Shepard, Joseph Smarr, Manu Sporny, Peter St. Andre, Simon Tenant, and Slim Trabelsi. 15:56:54 melvin do you know about drumbeat? 15:57:42 neither could I 15:57:59 http://www.drumbeat.org/ 15:58:01 i guess i could try emailing 15:58:02 Aza Raskin 15:58:04 from mozilla 15:58:09 i have met him before 15:58:18 privacy icons 15:58:58 http://www.drumbeat.org/project/privacy-icons 15:59:39 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Drumbeat/Challenges/Privacy_Icons 16:00:03 ACTION: mtuffield to get aza to talk to us by end of Sept. 16:00:03 Sorry, couldn't find user - mtuffield 16:00:13 mtuffiel 16:00:16 ACTION: mtuffiel to get aza to talk to us by end of Sept. 16:00:16 Sorry, couldn't find user - mtuffiel 16:00:25 mtiffiel 16:00:29 ACTION: mtiffiel to get aza to talk to us by end of Sept. 16:00:30 Created ACTION-169 - Get aza to talk to us by end of Sept. [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2010-09-01]. 16:00:56 ACTION: hhalpin to set up HTML5/Interaction domain telecon before Sept. 16:00:56 Created ACTION-170 - Set up HTML5/Interaction domain telecon before Sept. [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-09-01]. 16:01:06 that's it... 16:01:10 meeting adjourned 16:01:33 trackbot, end meeting 16:01:33 Zakim, list attendees 16:01:33 As of this point the attendees have been MacTed, +1.617.848.aaaa, cperey, +33.1.72.33.aabb, mischat, AlexPassant, melvster 16:01:34 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:01:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-minutes.html trackbot 16:01:35 RRSAgent, bye 16:01:35 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-actions.rdf : 16:01:35 ACTION: DKA Shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases. [1] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T15-30-24 16:01:35 ACTION: [DONE] thibodue Write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report [2] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T15-31-48 16:01:35 ACTION: venezia to do mobile paragraph [3] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T15-37-55 16:01:35 ACTION: work on the strategy document [4] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T15-53-10 16:01:35 ACTION: hhalpin work on the strategy document [5] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T15-53-18 16:01:35 ACTION: mtuffield to get aza to talk to us by end of Sept. [6] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T16-00-03 16:01:35 ACTION: mtuffiel to get aza to talk to us by end of Sept. [7] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T16-00-16 16:01:35 ACTION: mtiffiel to get aza to talk to us by end of Sept. [8] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T16-00-29 16:01:35 ACTION: hhalpin to set up HTML5/Interaction domain telecon before Sept. [9] 16:01:35 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-swxg-irc#T16-00-56 16:01:43 -MacTed 16:01:45 thanks! 16:01:49 -mischat 16:01:50 melvster has left #swxg 16:01:52 bye bye all 16:01:53 ; 16:01:59 -AlexPassant 16:02:02 bye 16:02:05 -melvster 16:02:10 -??P3 16:02:12 INC_SWXG()11:00AM has ended 16:02:14 Attendees were MacTed, +1.617.848.aaaa, cperey, +33.1.72.33.aabb, mischat, AlexPassant, melvster