<trackbot> Date: 11 August 2010

<MacTed> the power of the bots is ours!

<mischat> did people from (1 - UK) have problems trying to getting into the call ?

<mib_t9jm0i> Hi everyone aamonnz stands for Alexandre Monnin. I've got a problem accessing the conference on the phone - with the conf code) but chatting is all right.

<melvster> uk i cant get past the conf code ... will try US

<mischat> melvster: i talked to "admin assistance" and it worked

Someone deactivated my wireless repeater. <grr> Now I'm back in business.

hhalpin we need you!

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Aug/0017.html

Agenda for today.

<mischat> http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTi=0Cx=V8eOLMhgzdVbufK4CP4XQaN7_YZjJyQ6Q@mail.gmail.com

we can hear you very faintly

<bblfish1> that's better

<bblfish1> you're still very low volume

<mischat> fabien was having problems with the bridge

<hhalpin> scribe: DKA

<scribe> Scribe: Dan

<scribe> ScribeNick: DKA

Final Report

<mischat> s/updated/update/

<mischat> the UK number works, but you need to talk to the operator

Last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-swxg-minutes.html

including actions...

<mischat> ?q re: Final Report

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport#Appendix:_A:_Social_Web_Use_Cases

<mib_t9jm0i> got it too

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea

<hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] Appelquist to integrate the use cases into an appendix. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE]

<hhalpin> ACTION: DKA to shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2010-08-18].

<mischat> hhalpin: i have one

<melvster> here's mine

<melvster> http://openetherpad.org/GMVcbGExv3

<mischat> DKA: ^^

<melvster> GNU social has been one of the success stories of 2010. Following on from the GNU FM project, most famously powering Libre.fm, there was felt a need to separate out the social features into a self contained unit, codenamed GNU social. The project picked up pace when it received an endorsement from Richard Stallman, of the Free Software Foundation, and become an official piece of GNU software.

<melvster> Diverse discussion formed a part of an extensive design phase including input from Free Software exponents, well known industry figures and linked data experts such as Tim Berners-Lee and Dan Brickley.

<mischat> hhalpin: ^^

<melvster> The core project was given a lift when a contributor to status.net (powering identi.ca and others) announced they would donate their code to the project and the FSF. The first concrete implementation of GNU social 0.1 (codename Ritter) is up and running based on the status.net codebase, and features distributed users, groups and microblogs.

<melvster> Satellite projects spawned from the discussions include, the Diaspora project, a P2P Gnu social Protocol, planned integration with the Elgg platform (with working prototype at lorea.cc). This momentum looks set to continue into 2011 as more developers come on board, and more features are added.

<melvster> ends.

<mischat> onesocialweb

<melvster> elgg

<mischat> xmpp vs http problem i guess

<mischat> higgins ?

<mischat> Ostatus

<melvster> no

<mischat> no hhalpin

<bblfish1> there are a few on the foaf list

<bblfish1> there is also Clerezza that is webid enabled

<melvster> opengraphprotocol has lots of interop

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CLOSE] melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [CLOSE]

<hhalpin> ACTION [DONE]: melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE]

henry: on the webid mailing list, we have a number of implementations of webid that we need to get some interop going on...

<mischat> yes bblfish1

harry: we need someone who's familiar with the code bases to write up the current state of play - so we can talk about 3-5 of them in the report.

<bblfish1> I am working on Clerezza

harry: we're looking at the full range of social web use cases; licencing; is there a developer community; etc...

<melvster> +1 ODS

MacTed: should also include Open Link Data Services...

<hhalpin> ACTION: MacTed to write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - MacTed

<MacTed> tthibodeau

<hhalpin> ACTION: tthibodeau to write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report [on Ted Thibodeau - due 2010-08-18].

<melvster> google buzz? im not sure

<hhalpin> ACTION: DKA for diaspora to talk about being included in final report. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-156 - For diaspora to talk about being included in final report. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2010-08-18].

<MacTed> DKA - not sure what you mean by "OpenLink Data Spaces (ODS)"

<hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to ping Chris Messina over Google Buzz to talk about being included in final report. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Ping Chris Messina over Google Buzz to talk about being included in final report. [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-08-18].

<bblfish1> I need to do the webid piece. It is taking a lot of my time

<mischat> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries

Mischat: on the invited guest summaries - there are lots of things missing, not documented.

<hhalpin> note that I only really did a high-level overview, haven't moved into technologies.

Mischat: some of the key things: we don't talk about XRDS, the widgets, provenance...
... these should be mentioned in the final report.

harry: we do need sections on each of these technologies.

<hhalpin> I agree completely!

<MacTed> (figured it out!)

<hhalpin> +1 mischa

Mischat: I've gone through the emails and minutes and I've got a list and I will paste into the final report.

<hhalpin> ACTION: mischa to put stubs in for technologies discussed into final report... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-158 - Put stubs in for technologies discussed into final report... [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2010-08-18].

<melvster> that happened

mischat: dick hardt on OpenID - did that happen?

harry: yes - should be in the minutes.

mischat: business metrics and practices...
... what should we be talking about here?

DKA: I think Christine was going to produce something here - we should wait until we have her on the call.

<bblfish1> webid http://bblfish.net/tmp/2010/08/09/index-respec.html

<hhalpin> ACTION: Henry to do a para on foaf+ssl and webid [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-159 - Do a para on foaf+ssl and webid [on Henry Story - due 2010-08-18].

<mischat> hhalpin:

<mischat> we are today

<mischat> :)

tagging standards Fabien Gandon (INRIA) and possibly Alexandre Monnin (Sorbonne)

henry: in our use cases we have discussion of tagging and we haven't had much discussion of tagging.

<hhalpin> TagCommons

henry: would like to give the floor to fabian and Alexandre to present their work and take questions...

<mischat> http://tagcommons.org/

<mischat> MOAT ontology too ?

<hhalpin> http://www.holygoat.co.uk/projects/tags/

Alexandre: We've been working on an extensive TAG ontology - at least now 10 ontologies... Many projects but nothing from w3c...
... on w3c there is a small intro to tagging contrasting it to RDF ...

<hhalpin> Common Tag: http://www.commontag.org/Specification

<rreck> harry: we should talk voice

Alexandre: we have tried to create semantic tagging to address this gap ...

Fabien: In addition to wanting to introduce the predicate, we wanted to take advantage of an extension to RDF: named graphs: to record the tag and to record the ACT of tagging, who did the tagging, when, [in what context]. So there are two levels : what is the tag itself and can we capture the context of the tagging?

harry: can you give a quick example?

<hhalpin> +1 working code

<FabGandon> http://www.slideshare.net/fabien_gandon/nice-tag-ontology-modeling-tags-as-rdf-named-graphs

<rreck> harry: its up to you friend

got it

Fabien: [presents slides - starting at slide 12]

<hhalpin> NiceTag: http://ns.inria.fr/nicetag/2009/09/25/voc.html

<mischat> NiceTag: document http://spin.nicta.org.au/SNI2009/SNI2009/Program_files/nicetag-full.pdf

<mischat> ?q

<mischat> +q

DKA: Is there an example of where this is being used in a social context?

Fabien: in EasySeal [?] we try to match tags used with taxomonies already used in the enterprise.

Alexandre: I'm using NiceTAG to help annotate videos, media fragments, in a social and collaborative context.

harry: could you compare nicetag to commontag?

Alexandre: we had the opportunity to learn from commontag...

<FabGandon> s/EasySeal/ISCIL http://isicil.inria.fr

Alexandre: in nicetag we've taken into account the commontag model ... we are "aligned" with commontag. You can add a URI to a label to disambiguate it.

harry: So nicetag is built on top of RDF - bound tightly to RDF. What's your feeling on APIs?

Fabien: in the isicil model, it doesn't introduce new ontological primitives. We re-use the primitives out there. We can mix these models and take the best depending on what we are interacting with.

<mischat> ?q

mischat: what would be nice is if you could join up the same tag used on different sites. do you have a view on that?
... e.g. tagging a flickr photo with "london" and tagging a facebook photo with "london"...

Alexandre: depending on the social software producing the tag, some will just produce the label, some will produce a label and a disambiguation triple. The tag in this case has a more complex structure.
... if one of them is using a more complex tag then you will have to have a mapping declared.

<rreck> mappings where the label is not the same but the thing is the same seems like a bigger issue burma=myanmar

Alexandre: we're not trying to solve all the mapping problems ... but if you have all these models we can make them co-exist.

mischat: SKOS allows you to represent taxonomies - how does tag cloud relate?

<bblfish> -q

<bblfish> ok

<rreck> wow

<bblfish> yes, so that is an issue that I talked about here: http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/it_s_all_about_context

<bblfish> it's called lifting

<bblfish> and so my issue is that ontologies are not at the level of lifting :-)

<rreck> thanks for the presentation

<mischat> hehe ok hhalpin

<bblfish> ontologies are ways to break up the world, to help merging info — ie: bringing it into one context.

<hhalpin> Meeting adjourned

<bblfish> ok thanks all

<mischat> ok bye bye all

<mib_t9jm0i> thank you

<hhalpin> ACTION: Alexandre to write up paragraph on tagging and send to hhalpin [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action11]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - Write up paragraph on tagging and send to hhalpin [on Alexandre Passant - due 2010-08-18].

<hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/EasySeal/ISCIL http://isicil.inria.fr
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Found Scribe: DKA
Inferring ScribeNick: DKA
Found Scribe: Dan
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Scribes: DKA, Dan
Default Present: DKA, MacTed, mischat, bblfish, melvster, hhalpin, FabGandon, mib_t9jm0i, Carine, +1.617.324.aabb, caribou, rreck, cperey
Present: DKA MacTed mischat bblfish melvster hhalpin FabGandon mib_t9jm0i Carine +1.617.324.aabb caribou rreck cperey
Found Date: 11 Aug 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html

WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: [close] melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

People with action items: alexandre diaspora dka for henry hhalpin macted mischa tthibodeau