15:03:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:03:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc
15:03:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:03:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swxg
15:03:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
15:03:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
15:03:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:03:33 <trackbot> Date: 11 August 2010
15:03:34 <mib_t9jm0i> mib_t9jm0i has joined #swxg
15:03:58 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:03:58 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, MacTed
15:04:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see mib_t9jm0i, Zakim, RRSAgent, mischat, caribou, FabGandon, melvster, MacTed, tlr, tinkster, karl, trackbot
15:04:03 <MacTed> Zakim, this is 7994
15:04:03 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches INC_SWXG()11:00AM
15:04:07 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:04:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, OpenLink_Software, Garlik
15:04:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see mib_t9jm0i, Zakim, RRSAgent, mischat, caribou, FabGandon, melvster, MacTed, tlr, tinkster, karl, trackbot
15:04:17 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:04:21 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:04:32 <mischat> Zakim, Garlik is temporarily me
15:04:33 <Zakim> +mischat; got it
15:04:54 <MacTed> the power of the bots is ours!
15:05:06 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:05:06 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:05:09 <mischat> did people from (1 - UK) have problems trying to getting into the call ?
15:05:18 <mischat> Zakim, mute me 
15:05:18 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
15:06:03 <DKA> DKA has joined #swxg
15:06:20 <mib_t9jm0i> Hi everyone aamonnz stands for Alexandre Monnin.  I've got a problem accessing the conference on the phone - with the conf code) but chatting is all right.
15:06:23 <melvster> uk i cant get past the conf code ... will try US
15:06:35 <mischat> melvster: i talked to "admin assistance" and it worked
15:07:20 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:07:25 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #swxg
15:07:50 <Zakim> +??P18
15:07:58 <melvster> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:07:58 <Zakim> +melvster; got it
15:08:04 <DKA> Someone deactivated my wireless repeater. <grr> Now I'm back in business.
15:09:17 <DKA> hhalpin we need you!
15:10:06 <bblfish1> bblfish1 has joined #swxg
15:10:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:10:26 <DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Aug/0017.html
15:10:34 <DKA> Agenda for today.
15:10:43 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTi=0Cx=V8eOLMhgzdVbufK4CP4XQaN7_YZjJyQ6Q@mail.gmail.com
15:10:45 <DKA> we can hear you very faintly
15:11:17 <bblfish1> that's better
15:11:30 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:11:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, MacTed (muted), mischat (muted), bblfish, melvster, [IPcaller]
15:11:40 <hhalpin> Zakim, [IPcaller] is hhalpin
15:11:40 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
15:11:48 <DKA> zakim, mute me
15:11:48 <Zakim> DKA should now be muted
15:11:51 <hhalpin> chair: hhalpin
15:11:54 <bblfish1> you're still very low volume
15:11:57 <mischat> fabien was having problems with the bridge
15:12:02 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:12:02 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
15:12:05 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:12:06 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
15:12:09 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:12:09 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
15:12:13 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:12:13 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
15:12:14 <DKA> zakim, unmute me
15:12:14 <Zakim> DKA should no longer be muted
15:12:21 <hhalpin> scribe: DKA
15:12:24 <DKA> Scribe: Dan
15:12:25 <DKA> ScribeNick: DKA
15:12:34 <hhalpin> topic: Final Report
15:12:52 <mischat> s/updated/update/
15:13:02 <mischat> the UK number works, but you need to talk to the operator 
15:13:43 <DKA> Last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-swxg-minutes.html
15:13:47 <DKA> including actions...
15:13:53 <mischat> ?q re: Final Report
15:14:06 <Zakim> +[Sophia]
15:14:27 <FabGandon> Zakim, [Sophia] is me
15:14:27 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
15:14:35 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport#Appendix:_A:_Social_Web_Use_Cases
15:14:44 <Zakim> + +33.1.47.04.aaaa
15:15:05 <mib_t9jm0i> got it too
15:15:12 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea
15:16:46 <FabGandon> Zakim, +33.1.47.04.aaaa is mib_t9jm0i
15:16:46 <Zakim> +mib_t9jm0i; got it
15:18:35 <Zakim> +Carine
15:18:40 <hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] Appelquist to integrate the use cases into an appendix.
15:18:40 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE]
15:19:08 <Zakim> -Carine
15:19:19 <Zakim> +Carine
15:19:27 <hhalpin> ACTION: DKA to shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases.
15:19:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2010-08-18].
15:19:33 <mischat> hhalpin: i have one
15:19:54 <melvster> here's mine
15:19:55 <Zakim> -Carine
15:19:58 <melvster> http://openetherpad.org/GMVcbGExv3
15:20:04 <mischat> DKA: ^^
15:20:05 <melvster> GNU social has been one of the success stories of 2010.  Following on from the GNU FM project, most famously powering Libre.fm, there was felt a need to separate out the social features into a self contained unit, codenamed GNU social.  The project picked up pace when it received an endorsement from Richard Stallman, of the Free Software Foundation, and become an official piece of GNU software.
15:20:10 <melvster> Diverse discussion formed a part of an extensive design phase including input from Free Software exponents, well known industry figures and linked data experts such as Tim Berners-Lee and Dan Brickley.  
15:20:11 <mischat> hhalpin: ^^
15:20:16 <melvster> The core project was given a lift when a contributor to status.net (powering identi.ca and others) announced they would donate their code to the project and the FSF.  The first concrete implementation of GNU social 0.1 (codename Ritter) is up and running based on the status.net codebase, and features distributed users, groups and microblogs.  
15:20:21 <melvster> Satellite projects spawned from the discussions include, the Diaspora project, a P2P Gnu social Protocol, planned integration with the Elgg platform (with working prototype at lorea.cc).  This momentum looks set to continue into 2011 as more developers come on board, and more features are added.
15:20:25 <melvster> ends.
15:20:36 <mischat> onesocialweb
15:20:46 <melvster> elgg
15:20:50 <mischat> xmpp vs http problem i guess
15:20:53 <mischat> higgins ?
15:20:55 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aabb
15:21:00 <mischat> Ostatus
15:21:08 <melvster> no
15:21:08 <mischat> yup hhalpin 
15:21:13 <bblfish1> there are a few on the foaf list 
15:21:20 <mischat> s/yup hhalpin/no hhalpin/
15:21:26 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:21:26 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:21:32 <bblfish1> there is also Clerezza that is webid enabled
15:21:50 <melvster> opengraphprotocol has lots of interop
15:22:40 <hhalpin> ACTION: [CLOSE] melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social 
15:22:40 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [CLOSE]
15:22:49 <hhalpin> ACTION [DONE]: melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social 
15:22:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE]
15:22:57 <hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social 
15:22:57 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [DONE]
15:23:05 <DKA> henry: on the webid mailing list, we have a number of implementations of webid that we need to get some interop going on...
15:23:13 <mischat> yes bblfish1 
15:23:36 <rreck> rreck has joined #SWXG
15:23:39 <DKA> harry: we need someone who's familiar with the code bases to write up the current state of play - so we can talk about 3-5 of them in the report.
15:23:45 <bblfish1> I am working on Clerezza
15:24:21 <DKA> harry: we're looking at the full range of social web use cases; licencing; is there a developer community; etc...
15:24:47 <melvster> +1 ODS
15:25:10 <DKA> MacTed: should also include Open Link Data Services...
15:25:11 <hhalpin> ACTION: MacTed to write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report
15:25:11 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - MacTed
15:25:23 <MacTed> tthibodeau
15:25:28 <hhalpin> ACTION: tthibodeau to write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report
15:25:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report [on Ted Thibodeau - due 2010-08-18].
15:25:49 <melvster> google buzz?  im not sure
15:25:53 <hhalpin> ACTION: DKA for diaspora to talk about being included in final report.
15:25:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-156 - For diaspora to talk about being included in final report. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2010-08-18].
15:26:04 <MacTed> DKA - not sure what you mean by "Open Link Data Services"
15:26:10 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to ping Chris Messina over Google Buzz to talk about being included in final report.
15:26:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Ping Chris Messina over Google Buzz to talk about being included in final report. [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-08-18].
15:26:32 <mischat> Zakim, unmute me 
15:26:32 <Zakim> mischat should no longer be muted
15:26:57 <bblfish1> I need to do the webid piece. It is taking a lot of my time
15:26:57 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries
15:27:16 <DKA> Mischat: on the invited guest summaries - there are lots of things missing, not documented.
15:27:21 <hhalpin> note that I only really did a high-level overview, haven't moved into technologies.
15:27:36 <DKA> ... some of the key things: we don't talk about XRDS, the widgets, provenance...
15:27:45 <DKA> ... these should be mentioned in the final report.
15:27:57 <DKA> harry: we do need sections on each of these technologies.
15:27:58 <hhalpin> I agree completely!
15:28:11 <MacTed> s/Open Link Data Services/OpenLink Data Spaces (ODS)/
15:28:17 <MacTed> (figured it out!)
15:28:21 <hhalpin> +1 mischa 
15:28:28 <DKA> Mischat: I've gone through the emails and minutes and I've got a list and I will paste into the final report.
15:29:05 <hhalpin> ACTION: mischa to put stubs in for technologies discussed into final report...
15:29:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-158 - Put stubs in for technologies discussed into final report... [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2010-08-18].
15:29:09 <melvster> that happened
15:29:17 <DKA> mischat: dick hardt on OpenID - did that happen?
15:29:25 <DKA> harry: yes - should be in the minutes.
15:29:43 <DKA> mischat: business metrics and practices... 
15:29:50 <DKA> ... what should we be talking about here?
15:30:19 <mischat> Zakim, mute me
15:30:19 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
15:30:21 <DKA> DKA: I think Christine was going to produce something here - we should wait until we have her on the call.
15:30:39 <bblfish1> webid http://bblfish.net/tmp/2010/08/09/index-respec.html
15:30:57 <hhalpin> ACTION: Henry to do a para on foaf+ssl and webid
15:30:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-159 - Do a para on foaf+ssl and webid [on Henry Story - due 2010-08-18].
15:31:12 <mischat> hhalpin: 
15:31:13 <mischat> we are today
15:31:16 <mischat> :)
15:31:33 <hhalpin> topic: tagging standards Fabien Gandon (INRIA) and possibly Alexandre Monnin (Sorbonne)
15:31:41 <DKA> henry: in our use cases we have discussion of tagging and we haven't had much discussion of tagging.
15:32:00 <hhalpin> TagCommons
15:32:06 <DKA> ... would like to give the floor to fabian and Alexandre to present their work and take questions...
15:32:09 <mischat> http://tagcommons.org/
15:32:35 <mischat> MOAT ontology too ?
15:33:13 <hhalpin> http://www.holygoat.co.uk/projects/tags/
15:33:19 <DKA> Alexandre: We've been working on an extensive TAG ontology - at least now 10 ontologies... Many projects but nothing from w3c... 
15:33:45 <DKA> ... on w3c there is a small intro to tagging contrasting it to RDF ...
15:33:47 <hhalpin> Common Tag: http://www.commontag.org/Specification
15:33:59 <rreck> harry: we should talk voice
15:34:02 <DKA> ... we have tried to create semantic tagging to address this gap ...
15:34:10 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?
15:34:21 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (51%), mib_t9jm0i (26%), FabGandon (74%)
15:35:14 <DKA> Fabien: In addition to wanting to introduce the predicate, we wanted to take advantage of an extension to RDF: named graphs: to record the tag and to record the ACT of tagging, who did the tagging, when, [in what context]. So there are two levels : what is the tag itself and can we capture the context of the tagging?
15:35:24 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #swxg
15:35:43 <DKA> harry: can you give a quick example?
15:35:57 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:35:57 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:36:30 <hhalpin> +1 working code
15:37:12 <FabGandon> http://www.slideshare.net/fabien_gandon/nice-tag-ontology-modeling-tags-as-rdf-named-graphs
15:37:17 <rreck> harry: its up to you friend
15:37:35 <DKA> got it
15:37:51 <DKA> Alexandre: [presents slides - starting at slide 12]
15:38:08 <DKA> s/Alexandre/Fabien/
15:38:20 <hhalpin> NiceTag: http://ns.inria.fr/nicetag/2009/09/25/voc.html
15:38:26 <Zakim> +rreck
15:38:31 <rreck> zakim, mute me
15:38:31 <Zakim> rreck should now be muted
15:40:11 <mischat> NiceTag: document http://spin.nicta.org.au/SNI2009/SNI2009/Program_files/nicetag-full.pdf
15:40:25 <mischat> ?q
15:40:28 <mischat> +q
15:40:41 <DKA> DKA: Is there an example of where this is being used in a social context?
15:42:07 <DKA> Fabien: in EasySeal [?] we try to match tags used with taxomonies already used in the enterprise.
15:42:24 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #swxg
15:42:28 <DKA> Alexandre: I'm using NiceTAG to help annotate videos, media fragments, in a social and collaborative context.
15:42:45 <DKA> harry: could you compare nicetag to commontag?
15:43:22 <DKA> Alexandre: we had the opportunity to learn from commontag...
15:43:53 <FabGandon> s/EasySeal/ISCIL http://isicil.inria.fr
15:44:25 <DKA> ... in nicetag we've taken into account the commontag model ... we are "aligned" with commontag. You can add a URI to a label to disambiguate it.
15:44:57 <DKA> harry: So nicetag is built on top of RDF - bound tightly to RDF. What's your feeling on APIs?
15:45:21 <mischat> Zakim, who is making noise ?
15:45:32 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mib_t9jm0i (9%), FabGandon (82%)
15:46:30 <DKA> Fabien: in the easyseal model, it doesn't introduce new ontological primitives. We re-use the primitives out there. We can mix these models and take the best depending on what we are interacting with.
15:47:18 <mischat> ?q
15:47:25 <bblfish> q+
15:47:30 <hhalpin> ack mischat
15:47:31 <DKA> ack mis
15:47:49 <FabGandon> s/easyseal/isicil
15:48:10 <DKA> mischat: what would be nice is if you could join up the same tag used on different sites. do you have a view on that?
15:48:54 <DKA> mischat: e.g. tagging a flickr photo with "london" and tagging a facebook photo with "london"...
15:49:54 <DKA> Alexandre: depending on the social software producing the tag, some will just produce the label, some will produce a label and a disambiguation triple. The tag in this case has a more complex structure.
15:50:16 <DKA> ... if one of them is using a more complex tag then you will have to have a mapping declared.
15:50:46 <rreck> mappings where the label is not the same but the thing is the same seems like a bigger issue burma=myanmar
15:50:48 <DKA> ... we're not trying to solve all the mapping problems ... but if you have all these models we can make them co-exist.
15:51:44 <DKA> mischat: SKOS allows you to represent taxonomies - how does tag cloud relate?
15:51:46 <cperey> cperey has joined #swxg
15:52:00 <Zakim> +cperey
15:52:35 <bblfish> q-
15:52:42 <bblfish> -q
15:53:48 <mischat> zakim, mute me
15:53:48 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
15:53:56 <bblfish> ok
15:57:46 <bblfish> q+
16:02:53 <Zakim> -DKA
16:03:36 <rreck> wow
16:03:55 <bblfish> yes, so that is an issue that I talked about here: http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/it_s_all_about_context
16:04:14 <bblfish> it's called lifting
16:04:33 <bblfish> and so my issue is that ontologies are not at the level of lifting :-)
16:05:39 <rreck> thanks for the presentation
16:05:42 <mischat> hehe ok hhalpin 
16:06:00 <bblfish> ontologies are ways to break up the world, to help merging info — ie: bringing it into one context.
16:06:53 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:06:54 <hhalpin> Meeting adjourned
16:06:55 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:06:58 <bblfish> ok thanks all
16:06:59 <Zakim> -caribou
16:07:02 <mischat> ok bye bye all 
16:07:02 <Zakim> -melvster
16:07:04 <FabGandon> FabGandon has left #swxg
16:07:06 <Zakim> -mischat
16:07:07 <mib_t9jm0i> thank you
16:07:11 <Zakim> -cperey
16:07:13 <Zakim> -FabGandon
16:07:15 <hhalpin> ACTION: Alexandre to write up paragraph on tagging and send to hhalpin
16:07:15 <Zakim> -mib_t9jm0i
16:07:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - Write up paragraph on tagging and send to hhalpin [on Alexandre Passant - due 2010-08-18].
16:07:25 <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
16:07:25 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:07:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been DKA, MacTed, mischat, bblfish, melvster, hhalpin, FabGandon, mib_t9jm0i, Carine, +1.617.324.aabb, caribou, rreck, cperey
16:07:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:07:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-minutes.html trackbot
16:07:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-actions.rdf :
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: [DONE] Appelquist to integrate the use cases into an appendix. [1]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-18-40
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DKA to shorten too long use-cases and see if he can reference in SWAT test cases. [2]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-19-27
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: [CLOSE] melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social  [3]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-22-40
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: [DONE] melvin to write a blurb for the report on gnu social  [4]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-22-57
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MacTed to write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report [5]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-25-11
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tthibodeau to write up a paragraph on OpenLink Dataspaces for final report [6]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-25-28
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DKA for diaspora to talk about being included in final report. [7]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-25-53
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hhalpin to ping Chris Messina over Google Buzz to talk about being included in final report. [8]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-26-10
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mischa to put stubs in for technologies discussed into final report... [9]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-29-05
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Henry to do a para on foaf+ssl and webid [10]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T15-30-57
16:07:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alexandre to write up paragraph on tagging and send to hhalpin [11]
16:07:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/11-swxg-irc#T16-07-15
16:07:31 <Zakim> -rreck
16:08:04 <mischat> hhalpin: the action for "alexandre" got assigned to apassant