15:57:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:57:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-irc
15:57:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:57:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:57:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:57:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:46 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:57:46 <trackbot> Date: 20 July 2010
15:57:50 <hhalpin> hhalpin has changed the topic to: Call for July 20th
15:57:59 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Jul/0030.html
15:58:03 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:58:13 <mhausenblas> regrets+ LiMa
15:59:15 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:17 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
15:59:52 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
16:00:16 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:00:23 <Zakim> + +1.562.249.aaaa
16:00:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:10 <seema> seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:01:34 <mhausenblas> Zakim, code?
16:01:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), mhausenblas
16:01:48 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
16:01:57 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
16:01:57 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
16:01:58 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
16:02:05 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:02:05 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:02:12 <Zakim> + +3539149aacc
16:02:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:02:15 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:02:15 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:02:17 <seema> Zakim, aabb is me
16:02:17 <Zakim> +seema; got it
16:02:29 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:02:29 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:02:40 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.562.249.aaaa, [IPcaller], MacTed, seema, +3539149aacc
16:02:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, seema, Ashok, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, mhausenblas, boris, LeeF, MacTed, nunolopes, ericP, trackbot, iv_an_ru
16:02:46 <mhausenblas> aacc is me
16:02:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:02:57 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:02:58 <soeren> soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
16:03:01 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is me
16:03:09 <mhausenblas> Zakim, TF, wake up you stupid bot
16:03:21 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
16:03:25 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas
16:03:28 <dan> dan has joined #RDB2RDF
16:03:31 <Zakim> + +49.322.222.0.aadd
16:03:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'TF, wake up you stupid bot', mhausenblas
16:03:34 <juansequeda> Zakim, IPcaller is me
16:03:36 <mhausenblas> Zakim, cygri  is with mhausenblas 
16:03:36 <Marcelo> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:03:37 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
16:03:47 <soeren> zakim, aadd is me
16:03:50 <mhausenblas> Zakim, boris is with mhausenblas 
16:03:51 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:03:59 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
16:04:03 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:04:05 <Zakim> +Marcelo; got it
16:04:06 <MacTed> hhalpin - do you have the new UK number?
16:04:10 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:04:13 <Zakim> +soeren; got it
16:04:15 <Zakim> +boris; got it
16:04:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Marcelo, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), seema, mhausenblas, soeren, Ashok_Malhotra
16:04:21 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri, boris
16:04:26 <mhausenblas>    +44.203.318.0479	(London)
16:04:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see dan, soeren, cygri, seema, Ashok, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, mhausenblas, boris, LeeF, MacTed, nunolopes, ericP, trackbot, iv_an_ru
16:04:32 <mhausenblas> MacTed see above
16:04:52 <MacTed> mhausenblas - not for me, for hhalpin  :-)  +44.203.318.0479
16:05:01 <mhausenblas> Zakim, pick a victim
16:05:01 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose seema
16:05:02 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:05:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:05:13 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
16:05:22 <hhalpin> Zakim, [IPcaller] is hhalpin
16:05:22 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
16:05:24 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 8 (41%), soeren (64%), Ashok_Malhotra (19%), mhausenblas (51%), seema (58%)
16:05:36 <mhausenblas> scribenick: seema 
16:05:40 <Zakim> +Souri
16:05:44 <Zakim> + +1.512.471.aaee
16:05:47 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:05:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Marcelo, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), seema, mhausenblas, soeren, Ashok_Malhotra, hhalpin, Souri, +1.512.471.aaee
16:05:50 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri, boris
16:05:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, dan, soeren, cygri, seema, Ashok, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, mhausenblas, boris, LeeF, MacTed, nunolopes, ericP, trackbot, iv_an_ru
16:06:04 <mhausenblas> aaee is dan 
16:06:14 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Jul/0030.html
16:06:25 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
16:06:42 <hhalpin> +1
16:06:43 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/07/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:07:16 <seema> RESOLUTION: minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2010/07/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html accepted
16:07:27 <mhausenblas> Topic:  Meetings in July/August
16:07:32 <mhausenblas> http://doodle.com/u6qg5z7gmfhc2zak
16:08:37 <alexdeleon> alexdeleon has joined #RDB2RDF
16:09:06 <mhausenblas> Topic: R2RML Semantics
16:09:39 <angela> angela has joined #RDB2RDF
16:09:41 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
16:09:50 <hhalpin> Notes according to schedule we were supposed to get first draft of mapping language out in June...
16:10:04 <hhalpin> I'll ask for a 3 month extension, but even something very rough out by end of August would be ideal.
16:10:11 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Jul/0028.html
16:10:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:10:42 <hhalpin> q+
16:10:48 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
16:10:51 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin 
16:11:00 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who' s here?
16:11:00 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, mhausenblas.
16:11:06 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:11:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Marcelo, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), seema, mhausenblas, soeren, Ashok_Malhotra, hhalpin, Souri, +1.512.471.aaee, Lee_Feigenbaum, [IPcaller]
16:11:09 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri, boris
16:11:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see angela, alexdeleon, Souri, dan, soeren, cygri, seema, Ashok, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, mhausenblas, boris, LeeF, MacTed, nunolopes, ericP,
16:11:14 <Zakim> ... trackbot, iv_an_ru
16:11:18 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaee is here
16:11:18 <Zakim> +here; got it
16:11:26 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaee is dan
16:11:26 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
16:11:35 <seema> Harry: would like summer meetings so that we can continue to work on the mapping language charter
16:11:40 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaee is really dan
16:11:40 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
16:12:15 <cygri> Zakim, here is really dan
16:12:15 <Zakim> +dan; got it
16:12:31 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:12:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Marcelo, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), seema, mhausenblas, soeren, Ashok_Malhotra, hhalpin, Souri, dan, Lee_Feigenbaum, [IPcaller]
16:12:34 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri, boris
16:12:53 <juansequeda> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1APTqD2lJLRjwV6gmPKqDRqC3aT8bozHF0udIXndMNWQ
16:13:56 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Database-Instance-Only_and_Database-Instances-and-Schema_Mapping
16:14:00 <LeeF> FYI you can often get HTML from google docs that can be pasted into the wiki after the fact
16:14:27 <mhausenblas> Zakim, here is really dan
16:14:27 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'here'
16:14:34 <seema> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1APTqD2lJLRjwV6gmPKqDRqC3aT8bozHF0udIXndMNWQ
16:14:36 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:14:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Marcelo, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), seema, mhausenblas, soeren, Ashok_Malhotra, hhalpin, Souri, dan, Lee_Feigenbaum, [IPcaller]
16:14:39 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri, boris
16:14:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see angela, alexdeleon, Souri, dan, soeren, cygri, seema, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, mhausenblas, boris, LeeF, MacTed, nunolopes, ericP, trackbot,
16:14:43 <Zakim> ... iv_an_ru
16:14:46 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:14:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:14:49 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
16:15:03 <juansequeda> Datalog, SQL, RIF, Eric - https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1APTqD2lJLRjwV6gmPKqDRqC3aT8bozHF0udIXndMNWQ
16:15:09 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Database-Instance-Only_and_Database-Instances-and-Schema_Mapping
16:15:09 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:16:40 <seema> Marcelo: Idea is to have a running example in our document. DB instance mapping is the default mapping
16:17:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:17:26 <mhausenblas> Zakim, IPcaller.a is angela 
16:17:26 <Zakim> +angela; got it
16:17:33 <seema> .. the 3 rules can also be generated automatically
16:17:35 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:17:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Marcelo, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), seema, mhausenblas, soeren, Ashok_Malhotra, hhalpin, Souri, dan, Lee_Feigenbaum, [IPcaller], angela
16:17:39 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri, boris
16:17:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, angela, alexdeleon, Souri, dan, soeren, cygri, seema, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, mhausenblas, boris, LeeF, MacTed, nunolopes, ericP,
16:17:44 <Zakim> ... trackbot, iv_an_ru
16:18:12 <Ashok> q+
16:18:25 <mhausenblas> ack Ashok 
16:18:36 <seema> ..no ontology used in case 2 and case 3. hence the rules can be generated automatically
16:18:56 <alexdeleon> The IPcaller must be me
16:19:08 <seema> Ashok : why start with an example, instead of starting with the rules of the language
16:19:43 <seema> Marcelo: the example is just to make the rules easier to undestand
16:20:06 <cygri> q+
16:20:34 <Souri> which case are you explaining?
16:21:00 <Ashok> q+
16:22:12 <Souri> q+
16:22:16 <mhausenblas> q?
16:22:21 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:22:43 <ericP> Zakim, code?
16:22:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), ericP
16:22:51 <seema> Richard : can we use aggregates in queries?
16:23:07 <seema> Marcelo: yes, the predicate can be replaced with aggregates
16:23:08 <hhalpin> good question - we need to figure out what fragment of Datalog aggregates is in, and if we can do that in RIF as well.
16:23:11 <mhausenblas> ack Ashok 
16:23:13 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mom
16:23:13 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
16:23:13 <Zakim> +EricP
16:23:52 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
16:24:06 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:25:16 <seema> Souri: In datalog, is there a limit to the language we can use ?
16:25:19 <Zakim> +??P0
16:25:27 <hhalpin> Using Datalog is still up for debate I think.
16:25:43 <hhalpin> q+
16:25:43 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:25:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see Marcelo, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), seema, mhausenblas, soeren, Ashok_Malhotra, hhalpin, Souri, dan, Lee_Feigenbaum, angela, EricP, ??P0
16:25:46 <mhausenblas> q?
16:25:48 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri, boris
16:25:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, angela, Souri, dan, soeren, cygri, seema, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, mhausenblas, boris, LeeF, MacTed, nunolopes, ericP, trackbot, iv_an_ru
16:25:56 <ericP> datelog has aggregates?
16:26:02 <seema> Marcelo: up to us to decide what to include.. maybe a simplification..no recursion, no aggregates ..most basic form of SQL
16:26:07 <alexdeleon> alexdeleon has joined #RDB2RDF
16:26:34 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
16:26:39 <Zakim> -??P0
16:27:00 <soeren> +q
16:27:03 <mhausenblas> q?
16:27:50 <seema> can someone fill in me on who is speaking ? is it MacTed?
16:27:58 <juansequeda> its harry
16:27:58 <ericP> hhalpin
16:28:00 <Ashok> q+
16:28:03 <seema> thx
16:28:09 <mhausenblas> q?
16:28:31 <LeeF> Can't people use SQL to produce whatever views they want before applying RDB2RDF standards *regardless* of what the syntax of the RDB2RDF mapping standard looks like?
16:28:54 <Souri> +1 to LeeF
16:29:02 <nunolopes> LeeF: +1
16:29:04 <seema> Harry: do we assume that users will know SQL ? so that we allow additional SQL power to the language ?
16:30:02 <mhausenblas> q?
16:30:06 <mhausenblas> ack soeren 
16:30:14 <juansequeda> q+
16:30:18 <mhausenblas> ack Ashok 
16:30:19 <mhausenblas> q?
16:30:23 <LeeF> on DAWG & SPARQL WG, SteveH is fond of telling me that SQL does not at all line up with relational algebra (though the details are way beyond me)
16:30:43 <Marcelo> q+
16:31:03 <cygri> +1 to ashok
16:31:07 <mhausenblas> q?
16:31:10 <mhausenblas> ack juansequeda 
16:31:40 <hhalpin> LeeF, true and that's one way to do it but then what would RDB2RDF do precisely...
16:31:52 <hhalpin> q+
16:32:01 <mhausenblas> q?
16:32:17 <mhausenblas> ack Marcelo 
16:32:18 <hhalpin> the issue is that most people will be much happier probably using SQL than either RIF or some weird custom XML syntax IMHO
16:32:29 <mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas 
16:32:35 <cygri> q+
16:32:43 <mhausenblas> Marcelo: I agree with juansequeda 
16:32:45 <mhausenblas> q?
16:32:46 <MacTed> note that SQL-92 (aka SQL-2) has levels -- Entry, Intermediate, and Full ... SQL-99 (aka SQL-3) and later, have similar levels
16:33:00 <MacTed> SPARQL is a bit less mature, but I think the same should be coming
16:33:01 <juansequeda> q+
16:33:02 <hhalpin> q?
16:33:03 <mhausenblas> q?
16:33:06 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
16:33:06 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin 
16:33:13 <seema> seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:33:22 <MacTed> q+ SQL levels...
16:33:25 <mhausenblas> scribenick: seema
16:33:27 <MacTed> grrr
16:33:33 <MacTed> q- SQL levels...
16:33:38 <seema> sorry, got kicked out of irc
16:33:39 <MacTed> q+
16:33:59 <Souri> q+
16:34:11 <dan> im q+
16:34:22 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:34:22 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:34:34 <mhausenblas> q?
16:34:34 <seema> Marcelo: whatever is represented in Datalog can be represented easily in other languages.
16:35:15 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:35:30 <Marcelo> q+
16:35:34 <mhausenblas> q?
16:35:53 <seema> Richard: agree that datalog has well defined semantics. However SQL is richer.
16:37:04 <seema> Marcelo: do you want to consider different implementation by diff vendors and base a standard on that ? Would not agree with that.
16:37:06 <Ashok> +1 to Richard
16:37:35 <mhausenblas> s/Marcelo: do you want/Richard: do you want
16:37:39 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:37:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:37:41 <mhausenblas> q?
16:37:47 <mhausenblas> ack juansequeda 
16:37:48 <seema> thanks Michael
16:37:55 <LeeF> If the mapping language is a pretty thin wrapper around SQL & punts on the semantics of the wrapped SQL... that doesn't seem all too useful to me (off the top of my head)
16:38:46 <mhausenblas> q?
16:38:58 <mhausenblas> ack MacTed 
16:39:03 <LeeF> +1 to going around in circles a lot :D
16:39:47 <LeeF> agree with macted
16:39:57 <mhausenblas> q?
16:40:12 <seema> MacTed: SQL is not monolithic or simple. Lots of things in standard that leave specific implementation out to the vendor. 
16:40:26 <juansequeda> I agree with the levels of SQL that MacTed is talking about. We should have levels of our mapping language
16:40:29 <seema> .. we have slightly diff syntax per vendor
16:41:10 <seema> .. however DB vendors can declare compliance to  a SQL level
16:41:19 <mhausenblas> q?
16:41:35 <mhausenblas> +1 to MacTed's simple and to-the-point view
16:41:45 <Souri> SQL *query* standards could be used as a guideline. But, are we saying that SQL??? features {x,y,z,a,...} are the only ones that are supported OR, going the other way, saying that SQL??? features {u,v,w,...} may *not* be portable?
16:41:48 <seema> Souri: the query portion of SQL is standard.
16:42:13 <mhausenblas> q?
16:42:18 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
16:42:50 <mhausenblas> q?
16:43:02 <mhausenblas> ack Marcelo 
16:43:09 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:43:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:43:30 <seema> Souri: we could have vendors state something along the likes of SQL quote above..some parts are portable, others are not
16:43:59 <seema> marcelo: datalog can be easily converted to SQL. then SQL can be enhanced.
16:44:19 <Ashok> q+
16:44:38 <mhausenblas> ack Ashok 
16:44:43 <dan> q+
16:44:47 <hhalpin> q+
16:44:54 <seema> Marcelo: people in DB industry doing data integration use Datalog, not SQL
16:45:26 <mhausenblas> q?
16:45:37 <mhausenblas> ack dan 
16:46:40 <juansequeda> Dan is talking about : https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1APTqD2lJLRjwV6gmPKqDRqC3aT8bozHF0udIXndMNWQ
16:46:57 <cygri> q+
16:47:03 <ericP> q+ to ask what piece of datalog we're talking about
16:47:11 <mhausenblas> q?
16:48:01 <LeeF> Ashok, mhausenblas - if we were going to take a straw poll on this conversation now... what would the question be? i'm still not convinced we all agree/understand what the exact question under debate is
16:48:11 <Souri> Steps: 0) (not a step) you have a db schema present, 1) you want to transform it to a desired schema (=> do it using SQL query), 2) use a mapping language to map the interface of the queries to the OWL classes and datatype properties 3) use a mapping language to map the ref integrity constraints to OWL object properties
16:48:22 <hhalpin> the question is the meta-level approach.
16:48:28 <mhausenblas> Good question LeeF - I'm still trying to figure ...
16:48:32 <seema> +1 to Lee
16:48:37 <mhausenblas> q?
16:48:39 <hhalpin> Datalog is just an "option" to bridge SQL and RIF/RDF approaches.
16:48:46 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:48:46 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:49:37 <juansequeda> hhalpin, what other options of bridges do we have? I'd be interested if somebody could propose something else
16:49:41 <mhausenblas> LeeF care to do q+ and ask this to everyone? :)
16:49:43 <mhausenblas> q?
16:49:57 <LeeF> q+ because mhausenblas asked me to
16:50:04 <LeeF> q+ to ask what we're debating 
16:50:12 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin 
16:50:13 <Souri> So, a basic question is what should be the mapping langauge? Does user have to write the mapping in datalog? Do we have to write a parser for translating the datalog spec to SQL query?
16:50:42 <hhalpin> 1) Use all of SQL, basic mapping in XML.
16:50:54 <hhalpin> 2) Use a default mapping, then do mapping in RIF
16:51:29 <juansequeda> Souri, datalog as a syntax... but we don't have to use that. We can define another syntax if we want
16:51:29 <hhalpin> 3) Which part of SQL and RIF can we hold in common (Datalog ,which is just a semantics to my knowledge)
16:51:39 <mhausenblas> q?
16:52:08 <LeeF> The fact is... we have SQL to transform between relational models.
16:52:17 <LeeF> And we have RIF (or SPARQL) to translate between RDF models (sort of).
16:52:17 <dan> q+
16:52:18 <alexdeleon> alexdeleon has joined #RDB2RDF
16:52:25 <mhausenblas> q?
16:52:26 <LeeF> So the only gap is that bit in between (creating URIs, data types, etc.)
16:52:34 <LeeF> so let's just define the simple simple mapping and call it a day
16:52:52 <Marcelo> q+
16:52:58 <LeeF> we talked a bit at SemTech about enumerating the list of things that would need to be in that mapping
16:53:00 <mhausenblas> q?
16:53:17 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:54:08 <seema> Richard: address Harry's options : 1 would not be very popular, though easy to understand
16:54:40 <hhalpin> or SPARQL Constructs rather than RIF.
16:55:00 <LeeF> q-
16:55:06 <seema> .. option 2 addresses RDF audience..but they don't use RIF currently
16:55:13 <hhalpin> he said just using all of SQL would be popular.
16:55:24 <mhausenblas> thanks LeeF !
16:55:36 <juansequeda> cygri: RDF to RDF is something we shouldnt address +1
16:55:39 <MacTed> +1
16:56:31 <mhausenblas> q?
16:56:35 <ericP> ack me
16:56:36 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask what piece of datalog we're talking about
16:56:37 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
16:56:59 <Ashok> Richard, could you write mail summarizing what you said and we can discuss next Tuesday
16:57:17 <seema> s/1 would not be very popular/using all of SQL would be popular
16:57:31 <cygri> Ashok: ok
16:57:43 <mhausenblas> thanks cygri 
16:57:52 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:57:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:58:00 <mhausenblas> q?
16:58:29 <mhausenblas> ack dan 
16:59:10 <alexdeleon> alexdeleon has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:14 <LeeF> good observation, Dan! 
16:59:18 <mhausenblas> ack Marcelo 
16:59:24 <seema> Dan: as an audience for this document : 1 audience is us, 2 is folks not us but implementing the audience, 3) folks who have to live with this
16:59:24 <LeeF> curious who _is_ going to implement this
16:59:27 <LeeF> would Informatica implement this?
17:00:00 <hhalpin> The implementers are obviously database vendors.
17:00:09 <hhalpin> Therefore, we have to be *most* sensitive to their needs.
17:00:45 <mhausenblas> hhalpin I wouldn't be that sure (re obviously database vendors) - there are others ATM and there may be others
17:01:02 <Souri> what goes to the database has to be a SQL query
17:01:05 <hhalpin> Well, if database vendors don't implement it, it won't get into the hands of end-users
17:01:09 <mhausenblas> but I agree that we should be very sensitive re DB vendors, yes
17:01:11 <hhalpin> +1 Souri.
17:01:24 <mhausenblas> q?
17:01:25 <seema> Marcelo: Language for mapping in commercial tools is often Datalog
17:01:29 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
17:01:59 <Zakim> -dan
17:02:01 <mhausenblas> Topic: AOB
17:02:07 <Souri> question is what is the mapping language to use? the spec of course needs to get translated to SQL before sending it to the database.
17:02:09 <dan> thanks - go t to go...
17:02:19 <hhalpin> So whatever mapping language we use has to either be SQL or be a fragment of SQL with some definite extensibility, or easily translated into SQL.
17:02:34 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
17:02:37 <Zakim> -soeren
17:02:40 <Zakim> -angela
17:02:41 <mhausenblas> Michael: all the best in taking this further, see you in late August
17:02:51 <mhausenblas> ok, seema, let's wrap up
17:02:56 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:02:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:03:01 <Zakim> -Marcelo
17:03:01 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees
17:03:02 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.562.249.aaaa, +1.603.897.aabb, MacTed, +3539149aacc, seema, mhausenblas, +49.322.222.0.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, nunolopes, juansequeda,
17:03:05 <Zakim> ... cygri, Marcelo, soeren, boris, hhalpin, Souri, +1.512.471.aaee, Lee_Feigenbaum, [IPcaller], dan, angela, EricP
17:03:11 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:03:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:04:46 <mhausenblas> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:04:55 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:04:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:05:16 <mhausenblas> Zakim, bye
17:05:16 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.562.249.aaaa, +1.603.897.aabb, MacTed, +3539149aacc, seema, mhausenblas, +49.322.222.0.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, nunolopes,
17:05:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdb2rdf
17:05:19 <Zakim> ... juansequeda, cygri, Marcelo, soeren, boris, hhalpin, Souri, +1.512.471.aaee, Lee_Feigenbaum, [IPcaller], dan, angela, EricP
17:05:21 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, bye
17:05:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items