See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 29 June 2010
<mhausenblas> hehe
hey, wait a minute!
<juansequeda> dialing in a few min
<mhausenblas> scribenick: ericP
<mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of the F2F meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/06/20-rdb2rdf-f2f-minutes.html
<cygri> +1
<mhausenblas> RESOLVED: Accept the minutes of the F2F meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/06/20-rdb2rdf-f2f-minutes.html
Ashok: kudos to harry for cleaning minutes
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open
mhausenblas: i cleaned up f2f-related actions and changed the due date for remaining actions to next week
Ashok: souri, juansequeda and cygri were at the panel
juansequeda: the public is looking forward to a standard mapping language
mhausenblas: what sort of audience?
souri: good turn-out (more than
SPARQL) in a large conference room
... no question about whether a standard is necesary
... heard "how will you do inference?"
... said "the inferred data can sit in a triple store and the
asserted data in relational tables"
... that question from a fellow from gallery systems in new
york (they manage museums)
juansequeda: audience was mostly industry. i talked with someone from chevron
cygri: after the panel, i heard
questions about timeframe for spec and implementations
... indicates (industry) eagerness
mhausenblas: did any new faces
show up with implementations or use cases?
... e.g. someone from wordpress giving a requirement
dan: heard a request that UC&R include OLAP application
juansequeda: i asked folks to look over UC&R and email on the comments list
<juansequeda> ACTION: dan to work on UC&R on OLAP application [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dan
<mhausenblas> ACTION: Dan to work on UC&R on OLAP application [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Dan
mhausenblas: did we hear from IBM or MS?
[no]
<juansequeda> ACTION: miranker to work on UC&R on OLAP application [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - miranker
mhausenblas: sounds like we're motivated to finish quickly
juansequeda: we heard "will there be write?"
<Ashok> Dan, what's your moniker on Zakim
juansequeda: answered "we're chartered for read-only"
<scribe> ACTION: ddanielm to work on UC&R on OLAP application [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Work on UC&R on OLAP application [on Daniel Daniel Miranker - due 2010-07-06].
<mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael to slap Eric very soon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Slap Eric very soon [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-07-06].
<mhausenblas> close ACTION-70
<trackbot> ACTION-70 Slap Eric very soon closed
Ashok: would have been better
with more attendance, but we did what we could
... started with talk by juansequeda and dan about using the
appropriate terminology vis a vis ontologies etc.
... action 68 records an action for them to write that up
... souri introduced SQL approach:
... .. 3 kinds of statements
... .. .. this class can be populated with this SQL view
... .. .. this *data* can be populated with this SQL view
... .. .. constraint statement
... we need to create a syntax and write this up as a starting
point
... issue: must the class be expressed? (cygri's
question)
... cygri discussed RDF-based approach
... made some progress
... RDF-based approach is really mapping SQL to a default
mapping and then default to the desired ontology
... some of the functionality requires SPARQL11 (still in
progress)
... we can translate from the SQL statement to the RDF
syntax
... if this is possible, we don't need two totally difference
approaches
... seemed like a good idea to me
... do we want to write this up?
ericP: not much to write; it's directMapping + perhaps some defined RIF or SPARQL functions to bi-map node transformations
juansequeda: dan and i chatted
with Harold Boley
... (of RuleML, RIF)
... i think we're pretty close to done if we finish the direct
mapping
... the syntax needs to be done, but the semantics is all done
for us
... given Direct_Mapping_in_RIF, we already have the
semantics
<MacTed> vindication! :-)
juansequeda: marcelo says we can write the semantics with datalog
cygri: of the semantics and
syntax, the semantics is simple
... the syntax is still hard and undone
... whatever approach we come up with, the semantics should be
do-able
juansequeda: i'd still like to
create a group to write the semantics
... i'll work on it with dan and marcello
ericP: is http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/ insufficient?
cygri: folks seem to mean two
things:
... .. data mapping
... .. schema mapping
<mhausenblas> mute soeren
ericP: how is the generated schema used?
<soeren> sorry
juansequeda: it's the only source
we have
... when you decide something is a class, you need to make it
explicit
... the directGraph is insufficient 'cause it doens't include
the schema
cygri: "insufficient" must mean
insufficient for some purpose
... what use cases does the data mapping not meet?
dan: right, we don't need the
schema semantics to be expressed in OWL or RDFS
... but if we're going to develop a meaning for this mapping,
they must be represented
<cygri> ericP: having the schema explicit is nice because it serves as documentation for querying
<cygri> ericP: another use case could be: machines can do faceted browsing or assisted exploration of the data
<cygri> ericP: but i believe those are secondary to creating the data mapping itself
dan: after the vendors implement the standard, we need to allow folks *not* on the committee to e.g. say "this table name appears here"
<Souri> Without carefully going thru the high volume data (sitting in relational tables), the only other way I can think of writing a SPARQL query against that data is to look at the RDFS/OWL schema that is the basis of the data
dan: we can't do our job without saying how an implementor will map symbols from the data to the interface
cygri: but that's already written down
dan: i'd like ericP to assert some correctness semantics
<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to propose syntax
<soeren> +soeren
<soeren> +q
MacTed: a goal is to cross-join
against e.g. SQL dbs
... is field db1.x == db2.y?
... making the schema available is required to enable these
cross-joins
... i think the directGraph is uninteresting until we map to an
interface graph
<cygri> +1 to what soeren said
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/schema
<cygri> second one this? http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Direct_Mapping_in_RIF
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/schema no longer 404s
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open
<mhausenblas> ACTION-66?
<trackbot> ACTION-66 -- Richard Cyganiak to document issues on the SQL-based approach due July 8 -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/66
cygri: per 66, souri had some
slides which gave an abstraction of the sql approach
... we discussed expressivity. i took an action for writing
requirements for this approach
<mhausenblas> ACTION-67?
<trackbot> ACTION-67 -- Souripriya Das to write first draft of SQL-based approach due July 22 -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/67
Souri: per 67, will work on the SQL-based approach draft
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/Overview.xml
<mhausenblas> ACTION-68?
<trackbot> ACTION-68 -- Juan Sequeda to write note on Ways to Leverage Ontologies due July 8 -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/68
juansequeda: per 68, when we utter "ontology" we mean different things
<mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Cancel call on 6 July 2010 due to holiday week in the US
<Souri> +1 to cancelling next week
<cygri> +1 to cancellign
ericP: if i include e.g. FOAF, DCIM, uniprot, in an interface graph, do i have one ontology which includes all these other ontologies?
juansequeda: that will come out with the document
mhausenblas: how shall we proceed
this summer?
... i'll be gone mid-july to mid-august
... make up your minds and be ready to discuss next week
<mhausenblas> thanks a lot for scribing ericP !
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: ericP Inferring Scribes: ericP Default Present: EricP, +3539149aaaa, mhausenblas, +49.322.222.0.aabb, +1.603.897.aacc, soeren, Seema, cygri, MacTed, nunolopes, Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, angela, Souri Present: EricP +3539149aaaa mhausenblas +49.322.222.0.aabb +1.603.897.aacc soeren Seema cygri MacTed nunolopes Ashok_Malhotra juansequeda angela Souri Regrets: LiMa Wolfgang Boris Marcelo Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Jun/0063.html Found Date: 29 Jun 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html People with action items: dan ddanielm michael miranker[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]