16:17:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
16:17:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/20-rdb2rdf-irc
16:17:43 <Ashok> zakim, this is rdb2rdf
16:17:53 <Zakim> sorry, Ashok, I do not see a conference named 'rdb2rdf' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:19:19 <sdas2> sdas2 has joined #rdb2rdf
16:40:59 <Ashok> present: Juan_Sequeda, Dan_Miranker, Souri_Das, Ashok_Malhotra, Richard_Cyganiak
16:43:11 <Ashok> zakim, code?
16:43:11 <Zakim> sorry, Ashok, I don't know what conference this is
16:51:03 <ericP> Zakim, space for 10 for 8 hours?
16:51:03 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ericP.
16:51:20 <ericP> Zakim, space for 10 for 720 minutes?
16:51:22 <Zakim> ok, ericP; conference Team_(rdb2rdf)16:51Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 720 minutes until 0451Z
16:56:01 <ericP> apologies, i sent my regrets to public-rdb2rdf-wg@gmail.com !
16:56:29 <ericP> i have no idea how my mua elected to default to that domain
17:09:03 <Ashok> Admin Minutes Telephone Telcon on Tuesday? SemTech Panel What is an Ontology? SQL-based approach RDF-based approach Direct mapping Reverse mapping? How to make standard a success
17:09:18 <Ashok> AGENDA:
17:09:31 <Ashok> Admin Minutes Telephone Telcon on Tuesday?
17:09:43 <Ashok> SemTech Panel
17:09:54 <Ashok> What is an Ontology?
17:10:05 <Ashok> SQL-based approach
17:10:17 <Ashok> RDF-based approach
17:10:31 <Ashok> Direct mapping
17:10:50 <Ashok> ... reverse mapping?
17:11:06 <Ashok> .. schema question
17:11:18 <Ashok> How to make standard a success?
17:11:41 <Ashok> Topic:  SemTech Panel
17:11:54 <juansequeda> What is the usecase for RDB2RDF?
17:12:04 <juansequeda> What are practical experiences?
17:12:12 <juansequeda> What are potential different approaches?
17:12:16 <juansequeda> Why a standard?
17:12:21 <juansequeda> How long is this going to take?
17:13:05 <Ashok> The above are questiine we discussed on the last telcon
17:13:53 <sdas2> Why should I go for it? What are the benefits? Is if feasible? How much effort will it involve on the user side?
17:17:12 <Ashok> Souri:  What is it that you cannot do with SQL that you can do with SPARQL?
17:17:38 <Ashok> ... integration on data is important ... RDF has no stricture
17:17:50 <Ashok> ... inference becomes possible
17:18:44 <Ashok> ... can create domain ontology with domain knowledge
17:20:48 <Ashok> Ashok:  Even a few rules, a liitle inference makes the data very useful
17:21:30 <Ashok> Richard:  I can add a view that makes the inference pssible
17:21:51 <Ashok> Dan:  What is the source of the semantics?
17:26:31 <Ashok> Juan:  Can be a means to an end ... just dreate the RDF
17:28:00 <Ashok> Richard:  Three reasons
17:28:10 <Ashok> ... Data integration
17:28:19 <Ashok> ... Inferencing
17:28:46 <Ashok> ... Making data avaialible on the web'
17:31:04 <Ashok> Richard:  I can speak about practical experiences with D2RQ
17:32:09 <Ashok> Juan:  Triplify has some experience ... e.g. RDF view on OpenStreet map
17:32:16 <sdas2> s/stricture/structure/
17:34:22 <Ashok> Souri:  Maybe Orri can mention about HCLS
17:35:11 <Ashok> Ashok:  Potentially different approaches ...
17:35:28 <Ashok> ... SQL approach, D2RQ, ...
17:35:45 <Ashok> ... Virtusose RDF views
17:36:41 <Ashok> Souri:  People will want to ask about limitations, performance
17:36:46 <Ashok> Ashok:  My a standard?
17:36:56 <Ashok> s/My/Why/
17:38:15 <Ashok> Ashok:   Why do we need a standard?
17:39:05 <Ashok> Souri:  Data can be fragmented ... 
17:39:49 <Ashok> ... people will use different databases
17:40:38 <Ashok> ... Richard:  D2RQ works with diferent databases
17:40:49 <Ashok> s/...//
17:41:14 <Ashok> Richard:  Need support tools
17:43:15 <Ashok> ... people will write tools around the standard
17:43:46 <Ashok> ... ... standard creas a ecosystem
17:43:54 <Ashok> s/creas/creates/
17:44:46 <Ashok> Ashok:  How long will it take --- I think between 18 months and 2 years
17:46:06 <Ashok> Souri:  How much effort on user's  side?
17:46:28 <Ashok> Ashok:  There will be tools to help the user
17:47:20 <Ashok> Souri:  They will have to buy tools and set them up etc.
17:49:22 <Ashok> Richard:  How does this make integration easier than just integrating the data
17:50:34 <Ashok> Souri:  database integration is a very hard problem
17:52:05 <Ashok> ... we give you a useful approach which helps 
17:52:33 <Ashok> Dan:  Datbase integration helps you set the ground for inference
17:52:45 <Ashok> s/Datbase/Database/
17:54:02 <Ashok> ... need metadata
17:55:22 <Ashok> BREAK for 10 minutes
17:59:54 <juansequeda_> juansequeda_ has joined #RDB2RDF
18:16:15 <Ashok> Topic:  What is an Ontology?
18:16:44 <juansequeda> Slides: http://juansequeda.com/rdb2rdf/Ontologies.pdf
18:17:43 <Ashok> Richard:  No ontology case and putative ontology cases are very similar just that there is more information about the URIs that name the classes and properties 
18:21:32 <Ashok> Souri:  User needs ontology to help write the query
18:22:04 <Ashok> Richard shows demo that shows bits of the RDF graph and help writes the query
18:23:10 <Ashok> Dan:  RDF people are comfortable about not being explicit about the metadata
18:25:13 <Ashok> Juan:  We already have a glossary, but we all need to be conceptually on the same page.
18:25:31 <Ashok> ... we need to explicit about terms and agree 
18:25:42 <Ashok> Ricard:  Be explicit about design space
18:26:01 <Ashok> s/Ricard/Richard/
18:26:41 <Ashok> Topic:  SQL-based approach
18:27:13 <Ashok> Souri:  I will send out the foils to the list
18:32:01 <Ashok> ... somewhat modified version of out presentation
18:42:05 <Ashok> Dan:  Referential constraints capture domain semnatics
18:42:16 <Ashok> s/semnatics/semantics/
18:42:45 <Ashok> Richard:  Ontology brings in its own constraints
18:53:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdb2rdf
18:54:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
19:03:04 <Ashok> Souri:  we need to speficy Class(Classname, SQLdefString)
19:03:27 <Ashok> Richard:  Can I have 2 statements with same classname
19:03:36 <Ashok> ... yes, then we will need a usinion
19:03:49 <Ashok> s/usinion/union/
19:04:08 <Ashok> Ricard:  Could I have no class?
19:04:28 <Ashok> s/Ricard/Richard/
19:05:05 <Ashok> Richard:  You have an OWL had on ... I have RDF hat
19:05:22 <Ashok> ... in RDF I can have a node without a type
19:31:35 <Ashok> Meeting:  RDB2RDF f2f
19:31:45 <Ashok> Chair:  Ashok Malhotra
19:33:02 <Ashok> rrsagent, make logs public
19:33:14 <Ashok> rrsagent, make minutes
19:33:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/20-rdb2rdf-minutes.html Ashok
19:34:43 <Ashok> rrsagent, pointer
19:34:43 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/06/20-rdb2rdf-irc#T19-34-43
19:52:05 <Ashok> regrets: EricP
19:55:33 <Ashok> Souri:  Thre types of statements in the mapping language:  Class, Property, Constraint
20:00:20 <Ashok> Souri:  Discussed subtypes
20:01:27 <Ashok> s/Discussed/Discusses/
21:35:30 <Ashok> RESUMING after lunch
21:36:49 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
21:38:56 <Ashok> ACTION:  to rcygania2 document issues on the SQL-based approach
21:38:56 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
21:40:27 <Ashok> ACTION Document issues on the SQL-based approach on rcygania2 due July 10
21:40:27 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Document
21:41:57 <Ashok> ACTION: rcygania2 to document issues on the SQL-based approach due July 8
21:41:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Document issues on the SQL-based approach due July 8 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2010-06-27].
21:44:17 <Ashok> ACTION:  sdas2 to write first draft of SQL-based approach due July 22
21:44:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Write first draft of SQL-based approach due July 22 [on Souripriya Das - due 2010-06-27].
21:45:48 <Ashok> ACTION: jsequeda to write note on Ways to Leverage Ontologies due July 8
21:45:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Write note on Ways to Leverage Ontologies due July 8 [on Juan Sequeda - due 2010-06-27].
21:46:24 <Ashok> Topic:  RDF-based approach
21:47:39 <Ashok> cygri:  I will show examples from code that Eric wrote
21:48:23 <Ashok> ... this is from a scalar file that Eric sent around
21:48:55 <Ashok> ... uses SPARQL construct quireies from a direct mapping to a domain ontology
21:50:11 <Ashok> ... each prefix corersponds to a table
21:54:21 <Ashok> ... maps a column to a triple value
21:59:37 <Ashok> Souri:  The SPARQL query is written against the direct mapping subgraph
22:01:09 <Ashok> ... two steps
22:02:59 <Ashok>   ... storing this definition and using it to translate the SPARQL query
22:03:58 <Ashok> cygri:  Uses SPARQL 1.o so cannot do value translation
22:05:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdb2rdf
22:08:55 <Ashok> cygri:  I don't accept that SQL translate is hard to do
22:13:45 <Ashok> Dan:  This is for folks who are fluent in SPARQL rathar than SQL
22:14:45 <Ashok> Cygri:  2 downsides,  one is the 2 levels of translation.  The other is that we need SPARQL 1.1 expressivity
22:15:01 <Ashok> ... advantage is that what you get out is very explicit
22:25:55 <Ashok> cygri:m   Perhaps look at an example from SQL-based approach and see how it looks in SQL approach
22:26:18 <Ashok> s/cygri:m/cygri/
22:26:58 <Ashok> Souri:  Perhaps annotate SQL with what the SPARQL looks like
22:35:47 <Ashok> Ashok:  The primary key and foriegn key constructs are not expressed
22:38:10 <Ashok> ... can you translate the sql-based example to the rdf-based example automatically
22:39:58 <Ashok> cygri:  Should be possible if SQL part is a simple table ... if it is more complex it is not clear
22:47:01 <Ashok> Ashok:  To net it out, the RDF-based approach is easier for the RDF/SPARQL expert but ...
22:47:04 <Ashok> 1. requires SPARQL 1.1 for expressivity
22:47:18 <Ashok> 2. needs two lecels of translation
22:47:45 <Ashok> s/lecels/levels/
22:48:29 <Ashok> ... question about generating the RDF graph from the SQL-based approach
22:55:53 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #RDB2RDF
22:57:45 <Ashok> Topic:  Direct Mapping
22:57:58 <Ashok> Work with Marcelo
22:59:02 <juansequeda> http://juansequeda.com/rdb2rdf/DirectMapping.pdf
23:04:40 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
23:35:40 <Ashok> Datalog rules to map from SQL schema to ontology and RDF
23:36:01 <Ashok> some database rules sucg as check constraints cannot be expressed
23:36:38 <Ashok> Cygri:  Need much less than this for the default mapping in RDF-based approach
23:51:37 <Ashok> - Base table vs. view
23:51:37 <Ashok> Cygri: What can be customized:
23:51:44 <Ashok> - Class name
23:51:51 <Ashok> - Property name
23:52:40 <Ashok> - URI or literal or blank node
23:52:40 <Ashok> - datatype
23:52:40 <Ashok> - langauge tag
23:54:24 <Ashok> c/langauge/language/
23:59:09 <Ashok> Topic:  Reverse default mapping