19:28:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:28:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/15-ws-ra-irc
19:28:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:28:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-ra
19:28:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:28:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
19:28:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:28:34 <trackbot> Date: 15 June 2010
19:28:57 <Zakim> +Bob_Freund
19:29:09 <dug> bonjour
19:29:21 <Vikas> Vikas has joined #ws-ra
19:29:22 <Bob> I am using full dns
19:29:35 <dug> ah, no w3c today
19:30:06 <Zakim> + +1.571.262.aaaa
19:30:12 <gpilz> gpilz has joined #ws-ra
19:30:16 <dug> 571 is loud  :-)
19:30:36 <wuchou> wuchou has joined #ws-ra
19:30:44 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:31:07 <Zakim> + +1.831.713.aabb
19:31:08 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ws-ra
19:31:17 <Zakim> +Wu_Chou
19:31:19 <Vikas> Zakim, aaaa is Vikas 
19:31:19 <Zakim> +Vikas; got it
19:31:42 <gpilz> did they really need to stick the "context" into "customized, Compunetics, conferencing system" ?
19:31:50 <Ram> Ram has joined #ws-ra
19:32:02 <Zakim> +Tom_Rutt
19:32:07 <dug> No sympathy from me:  http://bronx.ny1.com/content/top_stories/120391/claim--bronx-students-forced-to-clean-school-toilets
19:32:10 <Katy> Katy has joined #ws-ra
19:32:20 <dug> its a punishment! geez.
19:32:45 <Bob> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0007.html
19:33:21 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
19:33:27 <Zakim> + +1.800.456.aacc
19:33:49 <MartinC> MartinC has joined #ws-ra
19:33:58 <Bob> present+ Rick Landau
19:34:03 <dug> zakim, aacc is Rick
19:34:03 <Zakim> +Rick; got it
19:34:42 <Zakim> + +3531803aadd
19:35:08 <dug> zakim, aadd is Martin
19:35:08 <Zakim> +Martin; got it
19:36:33 <Bob> scribe: Ashok
19:36:52 <Bob> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0007.html
19:37:32 <Ashok> scribenick:  Ashok
19:37:56 <Ashok> Topic:  Agenda\
19:38:04 <Ashok> Agenda accepted
19:38:21 <Ashok> Topic: Opening
19:38:34 <Zakim> + +44.196.281.aaee
19:38:40 <dug> zakim, aaee is Katy
19:38:40 <Zakim> +Katy; got it
19:38:51 <Ashok> Toopic:  Minutes from June 8
19:39:03 <Ashok> Approval of minutes of 2010-06-08
19:39:11 <Ashok> Approved w/o objection
19:39:29 <Ashok> Topic: Advance Soap Assertions to Last Call? http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-ws-soap-assertions-20100608/
19:39:42 <Ashok> Bob:  Any objections?
19:40:06 <Ashok> No objections.  Document will be published as Last Call document
19:40:18 <Ashok> Bob:  How long shd last call be?
19:40:25 <Ashok> ... 3 orb 4 weeks
19:40:33 <Ashok> s/orb/or/
19:40:46 <Ashok> No objections to 3 week Last Call.
19:41:06 <Bob> http://www.w3.org/standards/techs/sparql#w3c_all
19:41:17 <Ashok> Topic: Need short abstracts for spec directory examples at http://www.w3.org/standards/techs/sparql#w3c_all
19:41:55 <Ashok> Bob:  Who will volunteer to write abstracts?
19:42:07 <Ashok> Doug:  I'll take a stab at it
19:42:34 <Zakim> + +39.331.574.aaff
19:43:18 <asoldano> Zakim, aaff is asoldano
19:43:18 <Zakim> +asoldano; got it
19:43:24 <dug> action: Doug to write up some abstracts 
19:43:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-166 - Write up some abstracts  [on Doug Davis - due 2010-06-22].
19:44:16 <Ashok> Topic:  Heartbeat
19:44:20 <Ashok> 1-Issue-9610 Eventing: Support WS-Management's heartbeat events http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9610  -wsman
19:44:23 <Tom_Rutt> q+
19:44:30 <wuchou> q+
19:44:35 <Tom_Rutt> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0004.html
19:44:37 <Bob> ack tom
19:45:40 <Bob> proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0004.html
19:46:03 <gpilz> q+
19:46:50 <Ashok> TomRutt:  Simplify d ... always send msg at regular intervals
19:47:29 <gpilz> q+
19:47:34 <Ashok> WuChou:  Using count may not good idea
19:47:59 <gpilz> q-
19:48:13 <MartinC> q+
19:48:24 <Bob> ack wu
19:48:26 <gpilz> q+
19:48:29 <dug> q+
19:48:45 <Zakim> -Martin
19:49:05 <Zakim> +Martin_Chapman
19:49:09 <Ashok> TomRutt:  Agrees with Wu
19:49:38 <Ashok> Rick:  We would like to withdraw proposal
19:50:00 <Ashok> ... WS-Man would like to use it's existing mechanism
19:50:11 <MartinC> q-
19:50:11 <gpilz> q-
19:50:28 <Ashok> ... also \remove GetStatus option
19:50:43 <Ashok> s/\remove/remove/
19:51:18 <Bob> ack dug
19:51:28 <Ashok> Doug:  Proposal is worthy of consideration for a primer ... later
19:51:39 <asoldano> +1
19:51:51 <gpilz> zakim, where is the echo coming from?
19:51:51 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, gpilz.
19:52:02 <dug> zakim, who is noisy?
19:52:14 <gpilz> q+
19:52:15 <Zakim> dug, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tom_Rutt (87%), Ashok_Malhotra (8%), Martin_Chapman (65%)
19:52:21 <dug> zakim, mute martin
19:52:21 <Zakim> Martin_Chapman should now be muted
19:52:29 <dug> q+
19:52:50 <dug> LOL  poor martin
19:52:52 <Ashok> TomRutt:   We dod not need to remove what we have or not add a more general feature
19:53:36 <Ashok> s/dod/do/
19:53:55 <Bob> ack gp
19:54:10 <dug> its a miracle!
19:54:17 <MartinC> its also true
19:54:45 <Ashok> Gil:  Keep alive is worse than heartbeat
19:55:10 <Ashok> ... increases shared state by a lot
19:56:19 <dug> q-
19:56:57 <Ashok> Rick:  The keep-alive uses a maximum interval.  If you implement as regular heartbeat the max interval never exceeded
19:57:28 <Ashok> ... can be implemented by alarm clock
19:57:59 <Ashok> ... no need to keep distributed state
19:58:15 <dug> +1 to cwna and remove
19:58:26 <Ashok> Bob:  Proposal to CNA and remove ...  Option f.
19:58:48 <dug> q+
19:58:59 <Ashok> ... remove verify
19:59:25 <Ashok> TomRutt:  Lets not take away what we have ... meets a general need
19:59:59 <Ashok> Bob:  Do you want option e rather than f?
20:00:18 <Bob> ack dug
20:00:52 <Ashok> Doug:  Disagrees.  No need for what we added.  That was for WS-Man.  Will cause confusion
20:00:54 <Bob> ok, lets pick one
20:00:57 <Bob> e or f
20:01:08 <Bob> zakim, pick one
20:01:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick one', Bob
20:01:16 <Ashok> Doug:  Maybe we can add later
20:02:10 <MartinC> who is going to implement getstatus?
20:02:18 <Ashok> Allesio:  f
20:02:37 <Ashok> IBM:  f
20:02:49 <Ashok> Microsoft:  f
20:02:59 <Ashok> Fujistu:  e
20:03:07 <Ashok> SoftwareAG:  f
20:03:10 <dug> not just good work but great work  :-)
20:03:13 <Ashok> Avaya:  abstain
20:03:21 <Ashok> Oracle:  f
20:03:31 <Tom_Rutt> Tom_Rutt has joined #ws-ra
20:03:43 <Ashok> Bob:  We pick f
20:04:05 <dug> ack
20:04:13 <Bob> rr
20:04:15 <Ashok> RESOLUTION:  Issue is resolved by removing the verify feature and reverting to oroginal state
20:04:46 <Ashok> s/Issue/Issue 9610/
20:05:57 <Ashok> Topic:  Issue 9609
20:06:04 <Bob> proposal at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/attachment.cgi?id=887
20:06:39 <Ashok> 2-Issue-9609 Enum: Support WS-Management's optimization of Enumerations with small result sets http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9609  -wsman proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0006.html and in the bug list
20:07:10 <Ashok> TomRutt:  Any changes to response to existing spec?
20:07:18 <Ashok> Rick:  Yes
20:07:24 <Ashok> s/to/in/
20:08:38 <dug> q+
20:08:49 <Bob> ack dug
20:09:09 <Ashok> Doug:  Looks like a large premature optimization
20:09:25 <Ashok> ... prefer to make pull an explicit enumerate
20:09:45 <Ashok> Bob:  This is what we agreed to
20:10:02 <Tom_Rutt> q+
20:10:28 <Bob> ack tom
20:10:45 <gpilz> q+
20:10:52 <Ashok> TomRutt:  Then why do we need enumerate
20:11:00 <gpilz> q-
20:11:07 <gpilz> q+
20:11:12 <Ashok> Doug:  You would have a choice on the pull 
20:11:26 <Bob> ack gp
20:11:40 <dug> q+
20:12:35 <dug> q-
20:12:36 <Ashok> Gil:  Can we change to pull-enumerate?
20:12:47 <Tom_Rutt> q
20:13:08 <Ashok> Bob:  Let's leave issue of the name aside to the time being
20:13:39 <dug> I'd be willing to writeup the proposal
20:13:43 <Ashok> ... would this meet your needs ... first pull alsways enumerate
20:15:14 <Ashok> Bob:  Can you write the proposal?
20:15:18 <Ashok> Doug:  Yes
20:15:41 <Ashok> s/can/Doug, Can/
20:16:21 <Ashok> Topic: 3-Issue-9781 WS-Eventing: mandates only subscribe/unsubscribe http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9781  -Li
20:16:33 <Ashok> Li:  Explains issue
20:18:22 <dug> q+
20:18:43 <dug> LOL
20:19:43 <Bob> ack dug
20:19:56 <Ashok> Wu:  make only subscribe/unsubscribe as manadtory all else optional
20:20:06 <wuchou> q+
20:20:12 <Ashok> Doug:  Should not get rid of GetStatus
20:20:21 <Bob> ack wu
20:20:45 <dug> q+
20:21:41 <gpilz> q+
20:21:47 <Bob> ack dug
20:22:06 <Ashok> Doug:  Other mechanisms are not described in the spec
20:22:16 <Ashok> ... defends GetStatus
20:22:22 <Tom_Rutt> q+
20:22:43 <Bob> ack gp
20:22:47 <Ashok> ... cost is negligible
20:23:34 <Ashok> Gil:  Impl cost of GetStatus is low
20:23:47 <Ashok> ... optional features in the spec are bad
20:24:07 <Bob> ack tom
20:24:08 <Ashok> ... Support GetStatus
20:24:15 <Ashok> TomRutt:  +1
20:24:39 <Ashok> ... GetStatus is fundamental
20:25:14 <Ashok> Bob:  So we agree we can drop Renew
20:25:52 <Ashok> Doug:  I don't think Renew is that critical but easy to implement
20:26:30 <Tom_Rutt> +1 to dug on keeping renew
20:26:41 <Ashok> Bob:  You want to keep the whole set
20:26:58 <Ashok> Wu:  Originally Renew and GetStatus were optional
20:27:30 <Ashok> Bob:  Any objection toclosing with no action
20:27:51 <Ashok> Wu:  We would like only 2 operations subscribe/unsubscribe
20:28:13 <Tom_Rutt> q+
20:30:18 <Bob> ack tom
20:30:23 <Ashok> TomRutt:  Optionality is evil
20:30:40 <gpilz> +1 to Tom
20:30:43 <dug> +1 to tom
20:30:57 <asoldano> +1
20:30:58 <Ashok> ... cost to implement is very low 
20:31:23 <Ashok> Bob:  CNA?
20:31:46 <Ashok> No objections.  Issue closed with no action
20:31:47 <dug> status of WSDL pointers?
20:32:24 <Ashok> RESOLUTION:  Issue 9781 closed with no action
20:32:49 <Ashok> Topic:  -Issue-8284 All: references to WSDL 1.1 should be to BP-corrected version http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8284  -Pilz (BP 1.2 and 2.0 status)
20:33:01 <Ashok> Ram:  There will a proposal soon.
20:33:04 <Zakim> - +1.831.713.aabb
20:33:05 <Zakim> -Vikas
20:33:06 <asoldano> bye
20:33:07 <Zakim> -Wu_Chou
20:33:09 <Zakim> -Rick
20:33:09 <Zakim> -Martin_Chapman
20:33:10 <Zakim> -asoldano
20:33:12 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
20:33:14 <MartinC> MartinC has left #ws-ra
20:33:14 <Zakim> -Doug_Davis
20:33:15 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
20:33:16 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:33:24 <Bob> rrsagent, generate minutes
20:33:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/15-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob
20:33:35 <Ashok> rrsagent, make logs public
20:38:28 <Zakim> -Katy
20:39:36 <Bob> Bob has left #ws-ra
20:52:53 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
20:52:55 <Zakim> WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
20:52:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Davis, Bob_Freund, +1.571.262.aaaa, [Microsoft], +1.831.713.aabb, Wu_Chou, Vikas, Tom_Rutt, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.800.456.aacc, Rick, +3531803aadd, Martin,
20:53:00 <Zakim> ... +44.196.281.aaee, Katy, +39.331.574.aaff, asoldano, Martin_Chapman
21:00:24 <gpilz> gpilz has left #ws-ra